Pats vs Chiefs

[jvan1973]

Not sure about the specifics in terms of the score when he did it but I remember Manning passing a ton from inside the 5 all season long especially to Welker.

So what? The colts are throwing a ton inside the five this year. You do what works

[sweetsurrender]

So what? The colts are throwing a ton inside the five this year. You do what works

Sure. I have no issue with the O scoring even when up big. That is their job - to score. But I was just pointing out that Manning did throw a lot of his TDs inside the 5 when teams normally run which helped him get the record. 

[Le Neon]

when teams normally run which helped him get the record.

I'm not sure if that's the case anymore. More often then not it seems that a "goal line formation"has the qb in shotgun, sometimes with an empty back field. It's a changed league.

[IcEWoLF]

Just finished watching the replay and here are my thoughts:

Our Offensive line is total garbage, thanks BB for letting go our cornerstone Logan Mankins..Nate Solder has played horribly the whole season as left guard!

 

Our D-Line is awful, Chandler Jones needs to be better at setting the edges! Mayo and Hightower need to do a better job at backing them up.

 

I have not seen much from Collins...he has been invisible so far this season..he has not been as good as last season...

 

Our run game is non existent, we need a bruiser like Blount...unfortunately none of the RB on our roster are capable of doing that.

Fire McDaniels, other than Edelman all the other receivers are just not there....

 

If BB is serious about getting back in the SB he needs to draft a high pick WR and we need to revamp the whole O-Line because the current O-Line is a total mess and Brady will not last a full season behind these guys.

 

http://dailysnark.com/sad-gronk-spike/

 

This will be probably the first year the Patriots might not make it to the playoffs in a while if we keep playing this poorly.

I think if Brady keeps playing this poorly then its time to insert the young Jimmy in...

 

ATM its not just Brady, its the whole coaching staff and the whole team is playing like a B league team.

[jvan1973]

Just finished watching the replay and here are my thoughts:

Our Offensive line is total garbage, thanks BB for letting go our cornerstone Logan Mankins..Nate Solder has played horribly the whole season as left guard!

Our D-Line is awful, Chandler Jones needs to be better at setting the edges! Mayo and Hightower need to do a better job at backing them up.

I have not seen much from Collins...he has been invisible so far this season..he has not been as good as last season...

Our run game is non existent, we need a bruiser like Blount...unfortunately none of the RB on our roster are capable of doing that.

Fire McDaniels, other than Edelman all the other receivers are just not there....

If BB is serious about getting back in the SB he needs to draft a high pick WR and we need to revamp the whole O-Line because the current O-Line is a total mess and Brady will not last a full season behind these guys.

http://dailysnark.com/sad-gronk-spike/

This will be probably the first year the Patriots might not make it to the playoffs in a while if we keep playing this poorly.

I think if Brady keeps playing this poorly then its time to insert the young Jimmy in...

ATM its not just Brady, its the whole coaching staff and the whole team is playing like a B league team.

You guys will make the playoffs. The jets bills are terrible and they have questions about tannenhill in miami. BB will right the ship enough to get in

[amfootball]

You guys will make the playoffs. The jets bills are terrible and they have questions about tannenhill in miami. BB will right the ship enough to get in

That is our only saving grace right now - the division is terrible. I think we get in but it is going to be tooth and nail. I think a big shake up is going to happen. Not sure what but I got a feeling something big either with the coaches or players. Maybe a trade or something ...

[Susie Q]

This is an awful MNF game. Pats should win no problem. 

Well it looks as though the Pats had a definite problem.   

[Shane Bond]

Not sure about the specifics in terms of the score when he did it but I remember Manning passing a ton from inside the 5 all season long especially to Welker.

Anything wrong passing inside the 5?. Teams try to score when they get to red zone.

[jvan1973]

That is our only saving grace right now - the division is terrible. I think we get in but it is going to be tooth and nail. I think a big shake up is going to happen. Not sure what but I got a feeling something big either with the coaches or players. Maybe a trade or something ...

Do you think BB calls Charlie Weis? He is recently unemployed

[lollygagger8]

WAIT A SEC. 

 

 

We can have an open thread during a game for any team except the Colts on a Colts Forum!??

 

[lollygagger8]

And wooooweeee......the Pats looked terrible last night!! 

[jvan1973]

WAIT A SEC.

We can have an open thread during a game for any team except the Colts on a Colts Forum!??

[amfootball]

Do you think BB calls Charlie Weis? He is recently unemployed

That has been thrown around by the media but I don't see it happening. I think Weis has always somewhat resented the Pats because he could not get out from under Bill's thumb when they were winning the rings and he had to keep interviewing late for HC jobs because of the deep playoff runs. I do think they need to pry Scarnecchia, their Oline coach for the past 30 years out of retirement somehow. And they really need a new DC. He should be the first coach fired IMO. This D has too much talent to be performing this poorly.

[sweetsurrender]

Anything wrong passing inside the 5?. Teams try to score when they get to red zone.

Nothing but the question was about running up the score and Manning had some of those TDs inside the 5 when his team was up by a lot. Like I said, I don't believe there is any issue with running up the score as the O is supposed to score. But you don't throw 55 TDs without piling it on either.

[Susie Q]

Should be a quiet day from pats fans around here tomorrow

Don't hold your breath on that one jvan.  

[crazycolt1]

Drink some water buddy.

 

You dont need to get all edgy and worked up.

 

I get your point.

No one is getting worked up at all. Just because I debate my opinion doesn't mean I have a problem with anyone.

[crazycolt1]

Just finished watching the replay and here are my thoughts:

Our Offensive line is total garbage, thanks BB for letting go our cornerstone Logan Mankins..Nate Solder has played horribly the whole season as left guard!

 

Our D-Line is awful, Chandler Jones needs to be better at setting the edges! Mayo and Hightower need to do a better job at backing them up.

 

I have not seen much from Collins...he has been invisible so far this season..he has not been as good as last season...

 

Our run game is non existent, we need a bruiser like Blount...unfortunately none of the RB on our roster are capable of doing that.

Fire McDaniels, other than Edelman all the other receivers are just not there....

 

If BB is serious about getting back in the SB he needs to draft a high pick WR and we need to revamp the whole O-Line because the current O-Line is a total mess and Brady will not last a full season behind these guys.

 

http://dailysnark.com/sad-gronk-spike/

 

This will be probably the first year the Patriots might not make it to the playoffs in a while if we keep playing this poorly.

I think if Brady keeps playing this poorly then its time to insert the young Jimmy in...

 

ATM its not just Brady, its the whole coaching staff and the whole team is playing like a B league team.

My question is with the appearance that the Patriots don't keep high dollar players around as suggested by many has caught up to them. It seems like they trade away good players for draft picks that don't turn out as expected. It has worked in the past but has that tactic quit working?

[Shane Bond]

Nothing but the question was about running up the score and Manning had some of those TDs inside the 5 when his team was up by a lot. Like I said, I don't believe there is any issue with running up the score as the O is supposed to score. But you don't throw 55 TDs without piling it on either.

Houston game he threw to break the TD record. All other games it was relevant.

[sweetsurrender]

Houston game he threw to break the TD record. All other games it was relevant.

Lots of blowouts before Houston game.

[sweetsurrender]

Houston game he threw to break the TD record. All other games it was relevant.

He had 659 pass attempts, the second most of his career. When he was playing and not taken out by the HC, he was throwing.

[Shane Bond]

Lots of blowouts before Houston game.

Would like to know those blowout games. Can you list them?. To your next post, number of throws has no relevance to piling up. Teams throw to catch up other teams.

Ex: Dallas game. They scored 48. Offense had to throw to keep up.

[sweetsurrender]

Would like to know those blowout games. Can you list them?. To your next post, number of throws has no relevance to piling up. Teams throw to catch up other teams.

Ex: Dallas game. They scored 48. Offense had to throw to keep up.

Are you serious? They scored the most points in the history of the league. Their point differential was 207 which means they won their games by an average of 13 points. They had NINE wins by 14 points or more.

[GoPats]

Well. That was ugly.

 

I didn't go through all 9 pages of this thread but suffice to say, the Patriots are in big trouble. I've been willing to go with the old "it's early in the season" mantra up until last night. But I think it's past that point now. That was awful. Terrible football played by a team that can't seem to do anything right at the moment, except cover punts. 

 

Let's start at the top. I don't know what Belichick and his coaches have been seeing on film but they have yet to go into a game with anything resembling a solid game plan. They seem to start really slow on both sides of the ball, and I'm not seeing a lot of in-game adjustments - at least none that are working, anyway. 

 

Brady... not sure what to say about #12 right now. If you watched the game (or even just part of it) you saw what I saw. Part of it is his protection. Part of it is guys not getting open. But a big part of it is Brady himself. He's not playing with any confidence. You can see it... if they run into a 3rd-and-8 or something like that, it's almost like he's ready to run off the field after second down. I don't question the effort and I don't think that it's even worth considering doing anything crazy at this point, but if ANYTHING is going to turn around here, it's going to need to start with #12 removing his head from his butt. Unless this is some kind of drastic career cliff and he really has "lost it," then he needs to lead the way in getting things back on track.

 

The offense as a whole has been horrendous. Removing the garbage time TD, they've managed just two touchdowns in the past two games - and one of those games (Raiders) was against what's arguably the worst team in the NFL. They can't block anyone. Nate Solder got schooled by Hali, especially on the strip sack. Never even made contact with him? C'mon. I can see getting beat but he looked like a statue on that play. The receivers aren't getting open with any regularity. The backs aren't hitting holes with any authority. They can't run, can't pass, can't move the ball... it's a complete disaster right now.

 

Defensively? That was one of the worst games I've seen the Patriots play in 15 years. Their supposedly revamped D can't handle the run, they tackle poorly, they're out of position all the time... even when they know the run is coming and stack against it, the other team is still getting 4-5 yards a pop. In the passing game I simply don't understand the lack of aggressiveness. They're not using Revis's strengths. They're playing soft zones. They can't rush the passer. They can't get off the field on 3rd down.

 

It's been a long time since I've seen the Patriots play like that. Not sure if there's been a worse game in the Brady-Belichick era. There have been some bad ones, but none that I recall were as non-competitive as what we saw last night. 

 

There's still time for them to turn it around and as others have noted the AFC East is just flat-out awful. 8-8 could conceivably win the division and earn a team a home game. The Bills just benched their QB, the Jets SHOULD bench their QB, the Dolphins almost benched their QB and still might... so that's the upside at this point. 

 

They should also get Browner (back from suspension) and Dennard (out with a shoulder problem) back this week or next, and I'm wondering if that means they'll shake up the secondary a little.

 

I know a lot of fans around the NFL have been waiting for the Patriots to decline and are probably enjoying this, lol... maybe their time is indeed up. We'll find out. But even if it is, then it's been a heck of a run. Definitely among the most dominating decade-plus performances in league history. Everything good must end. Maybe this is it, maybe it's not yet.

 

 

 

My perspective on football has changed so much... I still enjoy it, but in my 20s I'd brood about for a few days after a tough loss like this. Now not so much at all. 

 

My daughter (precocious 5 years of age) woke up this morning and asked, "Daddy did your team win?" I laughed and said, "No honey, not even close." She just said, "Oh..." and paused for a moment  in thought... then said, "Well, what color pants did they wear?"  ;)

 

Love it. 

[Shane Bond]

Are you serious? They scored the most points in the history of the league. Their point differential was 207 which means they won their games by an average of 13 points. They had NINE wins by 14 points or more.

You call 14 points difference a blowout?. You realize teams can score 14 points in few minutes.

Why would they stop scoring after blowing a 24 point lead?.

I gave Dallas game as an example. You need to throw when others score.

[sweetsurrender]

You call 14 points difference a blowout?. You realize teams can score 14 points in few minutes.

Why would they stop scoring after blowing a 24 point lead?.

I gave Dallas game as an example. You need to throw when others score.

I will write slower - they...scored....the...most...points....ever...in...the...history..of...the...league. Point differential was 207. They scored many garbage time TDs ...

[Shane Bond]

I will write slower - they...scored....the...most...points....ever...in...the...history..of...the...league. Point differential was 207. They scored many garbage time TDs ...

No need for your sarcasm here. I asked you post the games you think as blowouts and you keep ignoring it and writing what you want to write. I am not going to bother responding.

[sweetsurrender]

No need for your sarcasm here. I asked you post the games you think as blowouts and you keep ignoring it and writing what you want to write. I am not going to bother responding.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2013.htm

 

Here are the games. All the games that they won by 14 or more is a blow out.There were nine of them.

[Shane Bond]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2013.htm

 

Here are the games. All the games that they won by 14 or more is a blow out.There were nine of them.

After losing having a 24 points lead, what do you expect a team to do?. And 14 points is not a big lead in today's NFL. Just 2 possession game.

[dw49]

I don't know dw. Jimmy looked very good on the one drive last night but granted the Chiefs called off the hounds at that point. I don't think Brady will be benched this year either but the O can't continue to be this futile. Although it is not all Brady's fault, he is still the one with the ball. I do think a more mobile QB would help with a young line to avoid the pressure and sacks. I really don't understand what Josh McDaniels was doing last night with all the shotgun stuff and why on earth the Pats did not resign Blount but something is woefully wrong on that side of the ball and has been all season save for the first half vs the Fins.

 

 

 

Well , although I think pretty much all QB's start losing it in their late 30's , I don't agree with benching Brady. Looks to me like this team has a problem with where they spent the remaining cap money. You gave me a blue print of how this team didn't need to spend money or high draft picks on WR's. Then you come back and say they have a crappy O line. Not saying you analysis was wrong but if it was right , then someone really dropped the ball big time.  Maybe I'm just going off in different directions and don't know squat here. Anyway , as much as I've always been an anti Brady and anti Pat fan , I really got zero pleasure out of watching Brady stuggle last night. It was painful to see him keep throwing short little slants when they were down 14 points. BTW.. back up QB's always seem to look good. Hard to believe the Pats would be a better team with TB on the bench. Now if you talk 2015... that could be a different story....

[TAPLOOK]

Just what the doctor ordered IMO. This will get them in gear. Bad game. Coaching, ST, QB, D, O you name it. It happens and I wouldn't make it a huge deal. It was a complete mental breakdown.

 

 

On a side note (not that it would have changed the outcome) did the Pats equipment manager pack the turf shoes? The D was slipping like they were on ice. I'd don't remember ever seeing that happen on a good playing surface in the past. I'm surprised Gruden and his sidekick made no mention of it. I suppose if everyone else is going to screw up the equipment manager should as well.  

[jvan1973]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2013.htm

Here are the games. All the games that they won by 14 or more is a blow out.There were nine of them.

14 points isn't a blow out

[amfootball]

Well , although I think pretty much all QB's start losing it in their late 30's , I don't agree with benching Brady. Looks to me like this team has a problem with where they spent the remaining cap money. You gave me a blue print of how this team didn't need to spend money or high draft picks on WR's. Then you come back and say they have a crappy O line. Not saying you analysis was wrong but if it was right , then someone really dropped the ball big time.  Maybe I'm just going off in different directions and don't know squat here. Anyway , as much as I've always been an anti Brady and anti Pat fan , I really got zero pleasure out of watching Brady stuggle last night. It was painful to see him keep throwing short little slants when they were down 14 points. BTW.. back up QB's always seem to look good. Hard to believe the Pats would be a better team with TB on the bench. Now if you talk 2015... that could be a different story....

Yeah, I don't think he should be benched yet. But boy, it has been rough. Not sure if it is talent or coaching or both. But both Vollmer and Solder look awful. But they bigger mystery is the defense that has real talent that is veteran, pro bowl level and yet nada last night. No energy from anyone. The only time the team looked like it has a spark was when Jimmy came in. That does not bode well for Brady.

 

You know dw, they said that Jimmy played more regular snaps last night then Mallett did in his entire career. That speaks to the confidence that Bill has in him this soon. This is really the first time that Brady has had a legit threat behind him and it is a shame that it has come when the team around him is awful. BUT, as you know, you can only make excuses for so long. The play at QB has to get better. Brady has to pick up his game or else we will see Jimmy before next year. Bill was asked last night if the QB position will be evaluated and he just stared down the reporter with a smirk on his face. So, I think Brady is safe for now but I think the leash is getting shorter.

 

One other thing, Brady's contract makes his very tradable. The Pats would take a bath on the cap but another team would want him at the price he will cost the next three seasons.

[sweetsurrender]

After losing having a 24 points lead, what do you expect a team to do?. And 14 points is not a big lead in today's NFL. Just 2 possession game.

They can do whatever they want. Like I said, O's job is to score but to pretend that all Manning's TDs were relevant is a joke. Many were not and were not needed for the win.

[Shane Bond]

They can do whatever they want. Like I said, O's job is to score but to pretend that all Manning's TDs were relevant is a joke. Many were not and were not needed for the win.

All are relevant.

 

I gave an example. You again are ignoring. They blew a 24 point lead by taking pedal from the gas and lost the game.

[sweetsurrender]

All are relevant.

 

I gave an example. You again are ignoring. They blew a 24 point lead by taking pedal from the gas and lost the game.

Meh, Manning could have a 50 point lead at half and still lose in Foxboro.

[Shane Bond]

Meh, Manning could have a 50 point lead at half and still lose in Foxboro.

That has nothing to do with what we are talking.

[sweetsurrender]

That has nothing to do with what we are talking.

Sure it does. Manning is never safe in Foxboro. Like I said, not all of his 55 TDs were relevant seems rather silly to try to argue so but I know you will continue to try.

[Shane Bond]

Sure it does. Manning is never safe in Foxboro. Like I said, not all of his 55 TDs were relevant seems rather silly to try to argue so but I know you will continue to try.

It doesnt. Argument here is about the relevance of the TDs not how he loses in Foxboro.

 

It is silly for you but other than that you cant substantiate why it is silly. I did with an example.

[dw49]

Yeah, I don't think he should be benched yet. But boy, it has been rough. Not sure if it is talent or coaching or both. But both Vollmer and Solder look awful. But they bigger mystery is the defense that has real talent that is veteran, pro bowl level and yet nada last night. No energy from anyone. The only time the team looked like it has a spark was when Jimmy came in. That does not bode well for Brady.

 

You know dw, they said that Jimmy played more regular snaps last night then Mallett did in his entire career. That speaks to the confidence that Bill has in him this soon. This is really the first time that Brady has had a legit threat behind him and it is a shame that it has come when the team around him is awful. BUT, as you know, you can only make excuses for so long. The play at QB has to get better. Brady has to pick up his game or else we will see Jimmy before next year. Bill was asked last night if the QB position will be evaluated and he just stared down the reporter with a smirk on his face. So, I think Brady is safe for now but I think the leash is getting shorter.

 

One other thing, Brady's contract makes his very tradable. The Pats would take a bath on the cap but another team would want him at the price he will cost the next three seasons.

 

As far as the snaps go , I just think that's a case of there being a good chance that this QB actually could be an eventual starter . Baring injury , no way the case with Mallett and BB also knew it was basically a 3 year deal with Mallett. As to a possible trade , yeah .. if Brady ends up benched in 2015 , they may as well get what they can as they will at least save the 7 mill base salary for that year. The guaranteed money is going against the cap one way for the other. Would also make sense to just take the whole 18 mill hit in 2015 as it would probably be a "transition " year anyway. Plus you don't relegate a guy like Brady to the bench.

[supremecoltsfan300]

They can do whatever they want. Like I said, O's job is to score but to pretend that all Manning's TDs were relevant is a joke. Many were not and were not needed for the win.

 

All are relevant.

 

I gave an example. You again are ignoring. They blew a 24 point lead by taking pedal from the gas and lost the game.

  

Week 1 vs Ravens: Peyton throws a TD pass with 13 minutes left in the 4^th quarter to make it 42-17, seemingly securing the win.  But wait, Ravens make it 42-27 with 5:30 to go, so it’s a two possession game.  Trying to just pick up the first down, Peyton throws a screen pass for the first down, but it goes for a TD. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week2 vs Giants: Peyton throws a TD pass with 12 minutes left in the 4^th quarter to make it 31-16. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 3 vs Raiders: Peyton doesn’t throw any TD passes in the second half of the blowout. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 4 vs the Eagles: Peyton last throws a TD pass in the 3^rd quarter. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 5 vs Cowboys: Peyton needs to comeback in order to win. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 6 vs Jaguars: Peyton doesn’t throw a TD pass after the 1^st quarter. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 7 vs Colts: Broncos lose like we all remember lol. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 8 vs Redskins: Broncos are losing for most of this game.  Peyton leads a comeback and last throws a TD pass with 6:35 to go in the 4^th when it was just a 10 point lead. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 10 vs Chargers: Peyton last throws a TD pass in the 3^rd quarter. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 11 vs the Chiefs: Peyton only throws a TD pass in the first quarter.  Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 12 vs the Patriots: Peyton loses to the patriots.  Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 13 vs the Chiefs: Peyton last throws a TD with 14 minutes left in the 4^th quarter to make it a two possession game.  They wind up winning by only a TD.  Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 14 vs Titans: Peyton last throws a TD pass with 9 minutes to go in the 4^th quarter when it was less than a 2 possession game.  This was also the I-can-play-in-cold-weather statement game. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 15 vs Chargers: Peyton loses. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

Week 16 vs  Texans: First game where you could make a case for “running up the score.” Up until the 4^th quarter, the Broncos offense was anemic (they moved the ball but struggled to score TDs). Then they explode and Peyton throws for 3 TDs.  The last TD pass, the one that breaks, the record, was questionable as the Broncos were up by 17 points at this point and there was 4:30 minutes to go.  However, we all know from the Bucs game in 2003 that it’s possible to score 21 points in 4 minutes or less.  Also, I do think Gase wanted to give Peyton a shot at breaking the record if he didn’t play next week.  Verdict: POSSIBLY running up the score.

Week 17 vs the Raiders: Peyton doesn’t play at all in the second half. Verdict: NOT running up the score.

 

In summary, there’s only one possible TD pass in one possible game, where you could say they were running up the score.  And that was the TD pass to break the record.