Polian's Superbowl Record

[IndyTrav]

In 26 years, Bill Polian has won 1 Super Bowl. Many around here call him a 'great' GM and possibly one of the best of all time and often cite his 6x Executive of the Year awards, or his drafting of Peyton and Edge as 'proof' and his many winning seasons as 'proof'.

I'd noticed no one took the time to compare Bill to the other GMs in the league, so since Bill became a GM in the NFL, I looked up all the SB wining GMs. Here goes.

Vanisi 1

Young 2

Gibbs 2

Walsh 3

Jones 3

Wolf 1

Beake 2

Shaw/Zygmunt 1

Newsome 1

Belicheck/Piloi 1

Mckay

Belicheck/Pioli/Dimitroff 2

Colbert 2

Polian 1

Reese 1

Loomis 1

Thompson 1

In 26 years there have been 17 different Super Bowl winning GMs. During Bills tenure, there have been 7 GMs win multiple Super Bowls.

Is Bill still really that great?

[John Dee]

and one sb win thanks to Peyton.

better go back and watch the playoff run once again. Manning was "Manning" in only ONE game, the rest the D, Vinny, and the running game won Indy it's only SB.

Manning was very average at best against KC, Balt, and Chicago. He was spectacular in the 2nd half against NE.

[deedub75]

Wow, that's a lot of playoff appearances!

I would gladly give up a few of those playoff appearances for a couple more deep playoff runs and Super Bowl appearances. Ask the Atlanta Braves fans how many World Series wins did they get out of the 14 consecutive division titles that they won. They are very similar to the Colts. Their GM is considered to be a genius. They played in a weak division at the time. They had a number of one and dones. They won more regular season games than anyone during their run but only came away with 1 World Series win out of 4 attempts. Neither GM seems to be able to build a team that can win the big games for whatever reason.

[Blue Horseshoe]

better go back and watch the playoff run once again. Manning was "Manning" in only ONE game, the rest the D, Vinny, and the running game won Indy it's only SB.

Manning was very average at best against KC, Balt, and Chicago. He was spectacular in the 2nd half against NE.

Maybe so, but he basically dragged the 3rd worst run defense in NFL history to the playoffs in the first place.

I still have no idea what happened in 2007. Before that year the Colt defense was practically nonexistent. From January to December of that year they were world beaters. Then they completely disappeared again in January 2008, never to be seen again. I wonder if Bob Sanders had a Fairy Godmother or something.

[Mameluc]

long quote.

jesus christ this is my last post arguing this cause it has no point. You keep saying that i bring his regular season like to make him look good and fail to bring his playoff record...you should read my posts, its good to argue when you know you are talking to the right person...I, IN NO WAY BROUGHT THAT. thanks!

second, it looks like you are just trying to see what you want to see and everybody else is wrong..."pollian drafted smallish and less athletic players". as i already said, have you bother to look at those bills teams? that is not %100 Pollian, he brings the players to the system the coach is using. Tony Dungy and howard mudd liked those kinds of players, there is no woner why our OL looks MUCH bigger than it used to be. thats a fact. another fact is that none of those bills teams were "small". another fact is that now that howard mudd is with the eagles, you can tell he is already making his mark: they brought a much smaller C, 6 -2 282, to replace their longtime, 6 -3 ~320, he also tried using our own DeVan to solidify that ol but andry reid overruled him (and i would know since i have a cousing who lives in philly and is a die hard eagles fan).

My point is not to kiss pollians youknow what, im all for critizism but some critizms looks personnall with him, not on the team, like looking for every possible excuse to send him to heck, just like pure hate for the guy. i get it, he is a big SOB, but you dont hire/fire a GM for beeing the perfect moral guy, you fire//hire him for hsi job, and most of the attacks he gets here are either irrational or personnal.

[Mameluc]

Dungy was really wanted by Irsay so Polian went along with the decision. Polian still had final decisions on personnel and the draft. Dungy was not a loud, rock the boat type of coach and quietly went along with Poian's decisions. I would not call them "puppets" but I would not call them independent head coaches who were allowed to make final decisions on personnel decisions.

"

sorry i did have to quote this...so wait, he had no choice bu tto put up with Dungy..and then you blame for "Polian still had final decisions on personnel and the draft."...wait what? isnt that a GM job.

and the whole puppet stuff, you are right you didnt used the word "puppets", here is your quote: "Polian has never been known to happily share the limelight and he tends to get a HC who is quiet and will kiss his butt rather than being a true X and O guy with any independence (or in the case of Caldwell any competence whatsoever)." sorry for interpreting that as puppet.

anyways as i said, bye

[Gonzo]

jesus christ this is my last post arguing this cause it has no point. You keep saying that i bring his regular season like to make him look good and fail to bring his playoff record...you should read my posts, its good to argue when you know you are talking to the right person...I, IN NO WAY BROUGHT THAT. thanks!

second, it looks like you are just trying to see what you want to see and everybody else is wrong..."pollian drafted smallish and less athletic players". as i already said, have you bother to look at those bills teams? that is not %100 Pollian, he brings the players to the system the coach is using. Tony Dungy and howard mudd liked those kinds of players, there is no woner why our OL looks MUCH bigger than it used to be. thats a fact. another fact is that none of those bills teams were "small". another fact is that now that howard mudd is with the eagles, you can tell he is already making his mark: they brought a much smaller C, 6 -2 282, to replace their longtime, 6 -3 ~320, he also tried using our own DeVan to solidify that ol but andry reid overruled him (and i would know since i have a cousing who lives in philly and is a die hard eagles fan).

My point is not to kiss pollians youknow what, im all for critizism but some critizms looks personnall with him, not on the team, like looking for every possible excuse to send him to heck, just like pure hate for the guy. i get it, he is a big SOB, but you dont hire/fire a GM for beeing the perfect moral guy, you fire//hire him for hsi job, and most of the attacks he gets here are either irrational or personnal.

+1 I had forgotten what those Bills teams looked like.

[21isSuperman]

The fact that a player may make a Pro Bowl once or twice in the case of Clark and Addai and yes Bethea means little in today's NFL for a variety of reasons. Many players picked for the Pro Bowl become injuried after being selected or they have played in the postseason and are already tired and beat up or they opt out for other reasons. Then an alternate is chosen to replace the starter. In Addai case for his single Pro Bowl appearance he was like the 3rd or 4th alternate, Same with Clark and Bethea. It means they were far down the list and only appeared because someone else opted out. Collie appears to be a one trick pony. He is leading the league in nothing this year. IMO the only true Pro Bowlers on the Colts are Manning and Freeney. Saturday is good but a major reason for him going to the Pro Bowl is his QB, not necessarily the physical talents of Saturday. Saturday is a good leader and a great off the field guy, but he is not a great center. I like Garcon but he drops as many passes as he catches and never comes through in the clutch like a Larry Fitzgerald or a Steve Smith or heck, even A.J. Green.

Sometimes peope tend to have a unrealistic, over inflated view of the "talent" on this team simply because they think anyone Polian selects for the team is golden. I could keep going but... Ask yourself this question if we have all this apparent talent of the players you cited and the hidden, unappreciated talents of the other players, why in the heck are we 0-10 and staring at a winless season? Please dont use the ready made excuses of "just bad coaching and bad luck". That excuse has run its course.

If the excuse is true, it doesn't really matter if it has run its course. Injuries to key players other than Manning (like Brackett and Bullitt) have contributed. Our coaching staff does not adjust in the second half and does not gameplan well. You can have all the talent in the world, but you need a good coach to bring it all together and make it work (like Harbaugh in San Fran).

[Fatboyslim11]

"

sorry i did have to quote this...so wait, he had no choice bu tto put up with Dungy..and then you blame for "Polian still had final decisions on personnel and the draft."...wait what? isnt that a GM job.

and the whole puppet stuff, you are right you didnt used the word "puppets", here is your quote: "Polian has never been known to happily share the limelight and he tends to get a HC who is quiet and will kiss his butt rather than being a true X and O guy with any independence (or in the case of Caldwell any competence whatsoever)." sorry for interpreting that as puppet.

anyways as i said, bye

For a guy who keeps saying bye, you are taking an awfully long time to exit the stage. I'm glad to see you at least retracked one of your errors about me and the use of the word "puppet". Your "interpreting" is eerily like Polian making up stuff to fool the masses. You Polian fan boys do have thin skins when it comes to providing factual information as opposed to the same old tired drivel we've come to expect.

Bye, Bye.

[wordofmouth]

It ripped the heart out of the team. We beat the Jets and the Ravens. Our easiest road to victory. When Manning is purring, teams with strong D and average O are easy meat for us..........we could have been charging into that SB on fire....instead we limped in as an embarrassment to the sport.

Holy revisionist history Batman! I like how when people need to discount our playoff successes all of a sudden we were facing weak teams and "RexGrossman".

So Manning was purring.... maybe because he was rested? No way of knowing but could have had something to do with it. I remember Jets Offensive players remarking how we were the fastest D they had ever played. Again, rest very likely played a part.

So Manning was humming the D was flying Garcon made one of the best hustle plays that I can remember, yet "our hart was ripped out". Two playoff wins we get out to 10? - 0 lead, doesn't sound like limping to me.

If you want to criticize the decision to not go for 16-0 fine, I agree. But to suggest it is the reason we lost the Super Bowl is silly.

[Fatboyslim11]

If the excuse is true, it doesn't really matter if it has run its course. Injuries to key players other than Manning (like Brackett and Bullitt) have contributed. Our coaching staff does not adjust in the second half and does not gameplan well. You can have all the talent in the world, but you need a good coach to bring it all together and make it work (like Harbaugh in San Fran).

Injuries are always part of the game. Football is a violent game and injuries are an unfortunate byproduct. That is why the good teams plan for injuries through superior drafting, selective use of trade and free agency and good coaching. The Packers won the SB last year with 18 players on season ending IR and the best managed teams like the Steelers and Giants manage to play well with injuries. Most agree that our coaching staff is hands down, the worst in the league. That is not the sole or the main reason, IMO, why we are losing. It is more the players and their lack of talent of this year's roster. Even without Manning, there no way a double digit winning, AFC championship appearing team from last year should suddenly morph into a 0-for the season embrassment in less than one year. Even if we did lose the great Manning.

I dont believe Belichek or Harbaugh or any coach could win more than 1 or 2 games with this collection of "talent" that is the Colts. We have demonstrated on the field that we cannot compete even with the Jags. We lost to that team that literally had off the street WR (Dillard) and a no name DE had 2 1/2 sacks. We werent even competitive with them, so that is a darning indictment of our lack of talent.

We can blame poor coaching for some of our ills, but, the the glaring lack of talent is the biggest problem we need to address.

[21isSuperman]

Injuries are always part of the game. Football is a violent game and injuries are an unfortunate byproduct. That is why the good teams plan for injuries through superior drafting, selective use of trade and free agency and good coaching. The Packers won the SB last year with 18 players on season ending IR and the best managed teams like the Steelers and Giants manage to play well with injuries. Most agree that our coaching staff is hands down, the worst in the league. That is not the sole or the main reason, IMO, why we are losing. It is more the players and their lack of talent of this year's roster. Even without Manning, there no way a double digit winning, AFC championship appearing team from last year should suddenly morph into a 0-for the season embrassment in less than one year. Even if we did lose the great Manning.

I dont believe Belichek or Harbaugh or any coach could win more than 1 or 2 games with this collection of "talent" that is the Colts. We have demonstrated on the field that we cannot compete even with the Jags. We lost to that team that literally had off the street WR (Dillard) and a no name DE had 2 1/2 sacks. We werent even competitive with them, so that is a darning indictment of our lack of talent.

We can blame poor coaching for some of our ills, but, the the glaring lack of talent is the biggest problem we need to address.

I agree with you here. While I personally believe we do have a number of talented players, there are certainly a lot of areas that need to be addressed. That's why I'm still unsure as to whether or not we should draft Luck first overall or trade the pick and get a multitude of selections to help our team

[wordofmouth]

You fail to see the irony in your posts. You are so contradictory. On the one hand you say the GM's job is build a team. Ok, So Polian built teams tend to be good in the regular seasonUsing your argument - You say that since he is responsible for the players and coaching playing well in the regular season make him out to be a superstar GM. Yet, Those same teams with the same players and coaches, built and or hired by Polian, continually fail in the playoffs and Polian bears no responsibility for the product he puts on the field in the playoffs. Once again, you are using the tired argument of best regular season record in the decade, been to two SBs....You fail to balance that with facts or a resonable explanation for all the one and done we have in the postseasons with all this "talent and athleticism". To give him all the accolades for his teams partial successes while conveniently ignorging the colossal post season collapses is absurd.

Bill Polian is judged at the end of the day on his ability to put in place all the tools needed for this franchise to be successful in the marketplace and to win championships on the field. He shouldn't be absolved of responsibilityand accountability simply because some look at him and see his limited success and think that is enough. After all, he is the greatest GM in history, a six time NFL Executive of the Year. He just cant produce championship teams despite being this genius. The unchecked Polian is the greatest worship many people have for Polian really is overriding the their ability to have a rational, objective opinion.

Ugghh,

- You fail to see the irony in your posts. You are so contradictory.

NO, not at all. Only if you twist my words.

- Ok, So Polian built teams tend to be good in the regular season

Yes, very good ( and that in itself is worth something) they have also been good enough in the post season to win 6 Confrence Championship games. Something that no other GM ( to my knowledge, I could be wrong) has done. I, like you, think the Colts, for the most part, have under performed in the playoffs, but to the degree that individual blame is warrented I think the blame can be spread all around, yes to Polian I never said he was completely blamess, but to many others as well including Dungy and Manning. Keep in mind 50% of playoff teams go one and done. And last I checked there are 32 other teams manned by professional players ( on average, drafted from highter positions than most Colts players) and Profesional Coaches.

- Once again, you are using the tired argument of best regular season record in the decade, been to two SBs....You fail to balance that with facts

Those are facts. And I can see why they would be tiersome to you as they do a great job of illustrating what a fine job BP has done.

- a resonable explanation for all the one and done we have in the postseasons with all this "talent and athleticism"

No, I will not attempt to give an explanation other than some other very good teams beat us. All though I do think Dungies "we do what we do" phillosphy backfired at times and for the first 1/3 to 1/2 of his carreer Manning had still not learned to relax in big games when things started to go wrong. Luckyly he got over that and has done quite well over the last 6 years or so.

Now just saying BP doesn't draft players that can win in the post season is not a reasonable aswer at all.

- To give him all the accolades for his teams partial successes

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. Who ever suggested giving him ALL the accolades? That's a strawman if I've ever seen one.

- Bill Polian is judged at the end of the day on his ability to put in place all the tools needed for this franchise to be successful in the marketplace and to win championships on the field.

And what a great job he has done with the first of your criterea. As far as your second criterea I would change it to put all the tools needed to compete for championships on the field. No GM can put a team together, especially in the sallary cap era that is garunteed ( my word, complete with bad spelling) to win a chapionship.

My whole premiss has always been that, for the most part, he has done that. Could he have done an even better job? sure. Is he beyond reprouch? of course not, should people worship him ( Don't know anyone who does) NO!!! but by any reasonable, fair, objective criterea, the guy has done a heck of a job.

After all, he is the greatest GM in history, a six time NFL Executive of the Year

I will ignore the sarcasm and attempt to put yet more words in my mouth, but.... Greatest GM in history? THere's no way to crown anyone with that distinction, but I garuntee that amongst his peers, the people who's opinions actually have some wheight behind them ( unlike you or me) he would be in the discussion. I base this not on the fact that I am a fan of his,, but on things said by the likes of Bill Parcells, Joe GIbbs and more recently (albeit in a non nutural forum) Tom Moore.

As far as 6 time Exec. of the year goes, I would rather have the championships but you don't win that award six times by being even just a "good" GM. And I think we can both agree that he didn't get those awards based on his personality.

- The unchecked Polian is the greatest worship many people have for Polian really is overriding the their ability to have a rational, objective opinion.

In my last post I said that it was peoples Malice towards Polian that kept otherwise inteligent folks from having a rational, objecitve opinion. You are stating that the other side is blinded by their "worship" of him. Both are true. But if there was any equivalance you would see posts all over the place claiming "Polian is the greatest!" " Bill does it again!" even in our best times his praises were not nearly as over the top as the criticisms he continually faces.

On that note, we will just have to agree to disagree, but it would be nice if the anti Polian crowed would stick to fair rational arguments (which there are many to criticise him with) instead of speculative garbage like "Polian won't hire a coach that will question him" ( my paraphrase) and "he is to stubborn to make a move because of his ego" etc.. they really bring what valid points you do have down.

[Fatboyslim11]

Ugghh,

- You fail to see the irony in your posts. You are so contradictory.

NO, not at all. Only if you twist my words.

- Ok, So Polian built teams tend to be good in the regular season

Yes, very good ( and that in itself is worth something) they have also been good enough in the post season to win 6 Confrence Championship games. Something that no other GM ( to my knowledge, I could be wrong) has done. I, like you, think the Colts, for the most part, have under performed in the playoffs, but to the degree that individual blame is warrented I think the blame can be spread all around, yes to Polian I never said he was completely blamess, but to many others as well including Dungy and Manning. Keep in mind 50% of playoff teams go one and done. And last I checked there are 32 other teams manned by professional players ( on average, drafted from highter positions than most Colts players) and Profesional Coaches.

- Once again, you are using the tired argument of best regular season record in the decade, been to two SBs....You fail to balance that with facts

Those are facts. And I can see why they would be tiersome to you as they do a great job of illustrating what a fine job BP has done.

- a resonable explanation for all the one and done we have in the postseasons with all this "talent and athleticism"

No, I will not attempt to give an explanation other than some other very good teams beat us. All though I do think Dungies "we do what we do" phillosphy backfired at times and for the first 1/3 to 1/2 of his carreer Manning had still not learned to relax in big games when things started to go wrong. Luckyly he got over that and has done quite well over the last 6 years or so.

Now just saying BP doesn't draft players that can win in the post season is not a reasonable aswer at all.

- To give him all the accolades for his teams partial successes

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. Who ever suggested giving him ALL the accolades? That's a strawman if I've ever seen one.

- Bill Polian is judged at the end of the day on his ability to put in place all the tools needed for this franchise to be successful in the marketplace and to win championships on the field.

And what a great job he has done with the first of your criterea. As far as your second criterea I would change it to put all the tools needed to compete for championships on the field. No GM can put a team together, especially in the sallary cap era that is garunteed ( my word, complete with bad spelling) to win a chapionship.

My whole premiss has always been that, for the most part, he has done that. Could he have done an even better job? sure. Is he beyond reprouch? of course not, should people worship him ( Don't know anyone who does) NO!!! but by any reasonable, fair, objective criterea, the guy has done a heck of a job.

After all, he is the greatest GM in history, a six time NFL Executive of the Year

I will ignore the sarcasm and attempt to put yet more words in my mouth, but.... Greatest GM in history? THere's no way to crown anyone with that distinction, but I garuntee that amongst his peers, the people who's opinions actually have some wheight behind them ( unlike you or me) he would be in the discussion. I base this not on the fact that I am a fan of his,, but on things said by the likes of Bill Parcells, Joe GIbbs and more recently (albeit in a non nutural forum) Tom Moore.

As far as 6 time Exec. of the year goes, I would rather have the championships but you don't win that award six times by being even just a "good" GM. And I think we can both agree that he didn't get those awards based on his personality.

- The unchecked Polian is the greatest worship many people have for Polian really is overriding the their ability to have a rational, objective opinion.

In my last post I said that it was peoples Malice towards Polian that kept otherwise inteligent folks from having a rational, objecitve opinion. You are stating that the other side is blinded by their "worship" of him. Both are true. But if there was any equivalance you would see posts all over the place claiming "Polian is the greatest!" " Bill does it again!" even in our best times his praises were not nearly as over the top as the criticisms he continually faces.

On that note, we will just have to agree to disagree, but it would be nice if the anti Polian crowed would stick to fair rational arguments (which there are many to criticise him with) instead of speculative garbage like "Polian won't hire a coach that will question him" ( my paraphrase) and "he is to stubborn to make a move because of his ego" etc.. they really bring what valid points you do have down.

Yep, we will just have to agree to disagree and move on. Trying to counter the points with your points is just not productive because in the end it is still your views vs. mine. You can try to charactize other points of views as you wish but that only means there has to be truth in those views for you to spend so much of your time trying in rebuttal.

[willysp]

Wow, wow, so many, many words...

0-10............................

[John Dee]

Injuries are always part of the game. Football is a violent game and injuries are an unfortunate byproduct. That is why the good teams plan for injuries through superior drafting, selective use of trade and free agency and good coaching. The Packers won the SB last year with 18 players on season ending IR and the best managed teams like the Steelers and Giants manage to play well with injuries. Most agree that our coaching staff is hands down, the worst in the league. That is not the sole or the main reason, IMO, why we are losing. It is more the players and their lack of talent of this year's roster. Even without Manning, there no way a double digit winning, AFC championship appearing team from last year should suddenly morph into a 0-for the season embrassment in less than one year. Even if we did lose the great Manning.

I dont believe Belichek or Harbaugh or any coach could win more than 1 or 2 games with this collection of "talent" that is the Colts. We have demonstrated on the field that we cannot compete even with the Jags. We lost to that team that literally had off the street WR (Dillard) and a no name DE had 2 1/2 sacks. We werent even competitive with them, so that is a darning indictment of our lack of talent.

We can blame poor coaching for some of our ills, but, the the glaring lack of talent is the biggest problem we need to address.

This team is lacking talent in 2 areas.... QB and CB. I am convinced this team has the talent to win 6 or 7 games if they had a coaching staff that had half a clue. This team is SO bad currently because they have QUIT on Caldwell. And it is obvious.

Indy got blown out in week one, the next five games Indy was in every one of them and a play here or there and they are 3-3. Against he likes of Pitt, Cincy, and TB. This team was very competitive early... then they just quit. And that is on the coaching staff.

The NO game was the clear sign this team no longer was buying what Caldwell was selling. And here we are at 0-10. And I don't see this team winning a game the rest of the year. Unless Caldwell is fired, and that won't happen. Irsay will keep him to ensure that the franchise gets the #1 pick.

[John Dee]

I agree with you here. While I personally believe we do have a number of talented players, there are certainly a lot of areas that need to be addressed. That's why I'm still unsure as to whether or not we should draft Luck first overall or trade the pick and get a multitude of selections to help our team

I see it unfolding like this... It is totally up to Manning to decide his fate with the team.

1. If he is not healthy the Colts will release him. And draft Luck.

2. If he IS healthy and feels the team can win, Indy will trade the #1 pick and go for a final run with Manning under center. (I hope this happens, but I truly feel Manning will retire)

3. If he IS healthy and feels the team CANNOT win in the near future Manning will request to be released... and Irsay will do so.

A trade involving Manning is not even an option, the Colts would still be stuck with his cap hit.

Peyton holds all the cards. His health and HIS attitude towards the state of this organization will ultimately determine his and Indy's future.

[WoolMagnet]

In 26 years, Bill Polian has won 1 Super Bowl. Many around here call him a 'great' GM and possibly one of the best of all time and often cite his 6x Executive of the Year awards, or his drafting of Peyton and Edge as 'proof' and his many winning seasons as 'proof'.

I'd noticed no one took the time to compare Bill to the other GMs in the league, so since Bill became a GM in the NFL, I looked up all the SB wining GMs. Here goes.

Vanisi 1

Young 2

Gibbs 2

Walsh 3

Jones 3

Wolf 1

Beake 2

Shaw/Zygmunt 1

Newsome 1

Belicheck/Piloi 1

Mckay

Belicheck/Pioli/Dimitroff 2

Colbert 2

Polian 1

Reese 1

Loomis 1

Thompson 1

In 26 years there have been 17 different Super Bowl winning GMs. During Bills tenure, there have been 7 GMs win multiple Super Bowls.

Is Bill still really that great?

Thats still pretty good company and a high percentile overall.

It would also be interesting to know:

1. How many different GMs were there total in that period and

2. What was their W - L %. (Playoff , regular season , and total would be cool)

3. How many Super Bowls (win and lose) they had teams in.

I know SB wins are the bottom line.

But in order to take numbers seriously, you need other related data I feel.

Thanks for the info tho.

[IndyTrav]

Thats still pretty good company and a high percentile overall.

It would also be interesting to know:

1. How many different GMs were there total in that period and

2. What was their W - L %. (Playoff , regular season , and total would be cool)

3. How many Super Bowls (win and lose) they had teams in.

I know SB wins are the bottom line.

But in order to take numbers seriously, you need other related data I feel.

Thanks for the info tho.

I thought it would help further the debate some. But I've added the Super Bowl losers. The team win % and GMs over that time frame would be quite an under taking, so lets start with these.

Super Bowl Losing GMs during the Polian Era:

Sullivan

Beake 3

Paul/Mike Brown

Polian 4

?? (Cant remember the guys name who replaced Bill in Buf)

Donahue

Beathard

Parcells

Wolf

Richerdson

F.Reese

Acoris

Shaw/Zygmunt

Davis

Hurney

Ried

Holmgren

Angelo

Belichelk/Poli/Dimitroff

Graves

Colbert

So combining the Winning/Losing SBs of the past 26 years:

41 GMs have appeared in a SB

7 Multi-Championship Winning GM's (Gibbs,Young,Walsh,Jones,Beake,Belichick,Colbert)

10 GMs have Multiple SB appearences (Gibbs, Young, Walsh, Jones, Beake, Belichick, Colbert,Wolf,Shaw/Zygmunt,Polian)

No GM has more Losses than Bill Polian (4)

Most Appearances are tied by Polian and Beake (5)((Beake was 2-3 Denver))

21 GMs have made 1 appearance. They are 6-15

[WoolMagnet]

I thought it would help further the debate some. But I've added the Super Bowl losers. The team win % and GMs over that time frame would be quite an under taking, so lets start with these.

Super Bowl Losing GMs during the Polian Era:

Sullivan

Beake 3

Paul/Mike Brown

Polian 4

?? (Cant remember the guys name who replaced Bill in Buf)

Donahue

Beathard

Parcells

Wolf

Richerdson

F.Reese

Acoris

Shaw/Zygmunt

Davis

Hurney

Ried

Holmgren

Angelo

Belichelk/Poli/Dimitroff

Graves

Colbert

So combining the Winning/Losing SBs of the past 26 years:

41 GMs have appeared in a SB

7 Multi-Championship Winning GM's (Gibbs,Young,Walsh,Jones,Beake,Belichick,Colbert)

10 GMs have Multiple SB appearences (Gibbs, Young, Walsh, Jones, Beake, Belichick, Colbert,Wolf,Shaw/Zygmunt,Polian)

No GM has more Losses than Bill Polian (4)

Most Appearances are tied by Polian and Beake (5)((Beake was 2-3 Denver))

21 GMs have made 1 appearance. They are 6-15

You're good.

Some of that makes him look mediocre (for SB GMs which technically might not be mediocre) but the "most appearances" stands out.

How about overall records, any idea?

[wordofmouth]

Yep, we will just have to agree to disagree and move on. Trying to counter the points with your points is just not productive because in the end it is still your views vs. mine. You can try to charactize other points of views as you wish but that only means there has to be truth in those views for you to spend so much of your time trying in rebuttal.

But don't you see that mine are better!? Just kidding, the frustrating thing about all this is there is just so much that we are not aware of and worse even more frustrating is the fact that we are totaly powerless in he whole proccess. Which is probably good being that neither one of us would do any better than even Jim Irsay when he was GM. Well, maybe we would.

[IndyTrav]

You're good.

Some of that makes him look mediocre (for SB GMs which technically might not be mediocre) but the "most appearances" stands out.

How about overall records, any idea?

Whew! It took some time, but I got some stuff for ya. Some of these were tenative, While I wouldn't publish these results, they are fairly accurate. In some instances, I had to work with what was given. Shaw in StL, worked there for 31 years, but couldn't find a true start date, Some were HCs who drafted, Belicheck Gibbs etc, and others had a mix of people helping out thru various eras, Walsh etc, so maybe while not 100% accurate, I'd venture to say its pretty darn close. No 2011 games have been counted for those still coaching/drafting.

Vanisi-Bears-5years '83-87 58-22 (.725)

Young-Giants-17years '79-95 139/126 (.524)

Gibbs-Redskins- 12years '81-92 124/60 (.673)

Walsh-49ers 13years '79-88/'99-01 114/85 (.572)

Jones-Cowboys 19 years '89-02/'07-11 156/132 (.541)

Wolf-Packers- 11 years '91-01 92/52 (.639)

Beake-Broncos- 14years '85-98 139/83 (.626)

Shaw- Rams- 31 years '78-08 235/254 (.480)

Newsome-Browns/Ravens 21 years '91-11 172/148 (.537)

Belicheck-Pats- 12 years '00-11 126/50 (.863)

McKay-Bucs- 11 years '93'-03 91/85 (.517)

Colbert-Steelers-12 years '00-11 115/61 (.653)

Loomis-Saints-10 years 02-11 77/67 (.534)

Thompson-Packers-7 years 05-11 52/44 (.541)

Polian-Buf/Car/Ind-26years- '86-11 248/135 (.647)

So what we see:

-Bill Polian has the 2nd most years of experience at 26. Shaw in StL with 31 seasons. Newsome with 21. Jones with 19. Young 17. Beake at 15.

-In the last 26 years Bill Polain has the most regular season wins(248)of any SB appearing GM.

-Polian has the 5th highest win %. Belicheck, Vanisi, Gibbs,Colbert,Polian,Wolf,Beake

We can debate this further bc I have more to add, but at the moment, its break time.

[Mameluc]

For a guy who keeps saying bye, you are taking an awfully long time to exit the stage. I'm glad to see you at least retracked one of your errors about me and the use of the word "puppet". Your "interpreting" is eerily like Polian making up stuff to fool the masses. You Polian fan boys do have thin skins when it comes to providing factual information as opposed to the same old tired drivel we've come to expect.

Bye, Bye.

keeps saying? i said it once lol(wasnt i supossed to be saying things "too fool the massess")...and i said im gonna stop arguint with you not the subject or the forum ;)

anyways, funny how you decide to ignore other posts that counter your view and provide at least some facts... and lol at you at everything is a conspiracy...

couldnt help my self, I took the bait.

[Fatboyslim11]

keeps saying? i said it once lol(wasnt i supossed to be saying things "too fool the massess")...and i said im gonna stop arguint with you not the subject or the forum ;)

anyways, funny how you decide to ignore other posts that counter your view and provide at least some facts... and lol at you at everything is a conspiracy...

couldnt help my self, I took the bait.

Not only did you take the bait but you now you are beyond tiresome with your drinking the Polian kool-aid drivel. Only the people who really think there is a conspiracy (like you) actually think there is one. LOL, you are an amusing break from our latest disaster on the field.

[deedub75]

How many of these GMs have an 0-16 season on their resume?

[Captain Americolt]

How many of these GMs have an 0-16 season on their resume?

Just one

[GoColts8818]

Just one

None at the moment the Colts are 0-11 not 0-16 yet and while there is a good chance 0-16 is going to happen it hasn't happened yet and as we have seen in the NFL anything can and normally does happen.

Also despite what some Colts fans would like Polian's career is not going to be defined by one season even a 0-16 season without Peyton Manning. When the Colts get this turned around and people go back to judge Polian's career they are going to see the 0-16 season and go that's strange what happened there? Then they are going to see Peyton Manning missed the year and go oh that explains a lot. Peyton is the center peace of the team and when you lose that with no notice like they had you can't replace it and it killed the team without question.

[Captain Americolt]

None at the moment the Colts are 0-11 not 0-16 yet and while there is a good chance 0-16 is going to happen it hasn't happened yet and as we have seen in the NFL anything can and normally does happen.

Also despite what some Colts fans would like Polian's career is not going to be defined by one season even a 0-16 season without Peyton Manning. When the Colts get this turned around and people go back to judge Polian's career they are going to see the 0-16 season and go that's strange what happened there? Then they are going to see Peyton Manning missed the year and go oh that explains a lot. Peyton is the center peace of the team and when you lose that with no notice like they had you can't replace it and it killed the team without question.

sorry i thought the other poster asked how many gms in the nfl wen 0-16, thats why i said "just one". The lions

[GoColts8818]

sorry i thought the other poster asked how many gms in the nfl wen 0-16, thats why i said "just one". The lions

got ya then, I think he was talking about the list and I think that list was GMs who went to the Super Bowl since Polian has been in the league but I could be wrong though.

[deedub75]

None at the moment the Colts are 0-11 not 0-16 yet and while there is a good chance 0-16 is going to happen it hasn't happened yet and as we have seen in the NFL anything can and normally does happen.

Also despite what some Colts fans would like Polian's career is not going to be defined by one season even a 0-16 season without Peyton Manning. When the Colts get this turned around and people go back to judge Polian's career they are going to see the 0-16 season and go that's strange what happened there? Then they are going to see Peyton Manning missed the year and go oh that explains a lot. Peyton is the center peace of the team and when you lose that with no notice like they had you can't replace it and it killed the team without question.

His career will not be defined by an 0-16 season but a great GM should never even sniff a winless season especially with all of the experience he has. I think people will look back and wonder how such a great GM could have a winless season regardless of what happened with Manning. An 0-16 season will help Manning's legacy because more people will realize that Manning made Polian's Indy career and will hurt Polian's legacy because an almighty GM should not go 0-16 if he truly knows how to build a true team. Manning > Polian.

[Fatboyslim11]

None at the moment the Colts are 0-11 not 0-16 yet and while there is a good chance 0-16 is going to happen it hasn't happened yet and as we have seen in the NFL anything can and normally does happen.

Also despite what some Colts fans would like Polian's career is not going to be defined by one season even a 0-16 season without Peyton Manning. When the Colts get this turned around and people go back to judge Polian's career they are going to see the 0-16 season and go that's strange what happened there? Then they are going to see Peyton Manning missed the year and go oh that explains a lot. Peyton is the center peace of the team and when you lose that with no notice like they had you can't replace it and it killed the team without question.

Manning is not the sole reason we are 0 for the season. We had two weeks to prepare for a bad team and two weeks to heal some injuries and we still lost by 8 points, at home. We even had some decent coaching and game planning and still lost. It is the players, or lack of talented players, that is the major reason for this winless season.

We need to stop using Manning injury as the reason we havent won a single game this year. He is important but if we cant win a game without him we really arent an NFL caliber team.

[GoColts8818]

Manning is not the sole reason we are 0 for the season. We had two weeks to prepare for a bad team and two weeks to heal some injuries and we still lost by 8 points, at home. We even had some decent coaching and game planning and still lost. It is the players, or lack of talented players, that is the major reason for this winless season.

We need to stop using Manning injury as the reason we havent won a single game this year. He is important but if we cant win a game without him we really arent an NFL caliber team.

By heal some injuries you mean Joseph Addai? The other injuried players still didn't play and a large number of very good players aren't coming back beyond Peyton Manning.

Also give this team Peyton Manning even with all the other injuries and they are probably at worst 7-4 right now and everyone's attitude is very different right now. So he might not be the only reason but he is the biggest.

[indy1888]

His career will not be defined by an 0-16 season but a great GM should never even sniff a winless season especially with all of the experience he has. I think people will look back and wonder how such a great GM could have a winless season regardless of what happened with Manning. An 0-16 season will help Manning's legacy because more people will realize that Manning made Polian's Indy career and will hurt Polian's legacy because an almighty GM should not go 0-16 if he truly knows how to build a true team. Manning > Polian.

Exactly. Many of us knew if Peyton ever went down, it would get ugly. But even I did not think it would be this bad. You don't get to 0-16 vicinity over night or just because you lose your QB. This is years of mistakes from the front office that have us where we are now. There are teams in the league that have won games this year with backup Qb's, the Texans just won today with their 3rd stringer. If they should go 0-16 i don't see how anyone can argue that it does not hurt Polian. It helps further the belief that this team has never really been all that good and that it's been all Manning. Even if you have a bad team and lose Manning, you should win 2-3 games. If they can't win a single game, what does that say about the talent level on this team?

[Mameluc]

Not only did you take the bait but you now you are beyond tiresome with your drinking the Polian kool-aid drivel. Only the people who really think there is a conspiracy (like you) actually think there is one. LOL, you are an amusing break from our latest disaster on the field.

yet you still fail to bring proof against my counter of "pollian drafts small players and less athletic blah blah". you sure argue tough.

and what kool aid, , in what way am i kissing Pollian's youknowwhat? I havent even brought him, just stated my opinion as to why I believe that "less athletic small guys" is not 100 % on pollian, something you desperately want everyone to believe, yet all you say is im a pollian lover and try to make it look like you are much smarter than i am trying to discredit me saying im just his fan boy...good lord, at least bring arguments instead of going all personnal, after all this is a discussion board, you know, arguments would be welcome.

[cmgww]

Oh shut it already....Polian is far from perfect, but all you armchair GMs think you could do better?? Whining about the one and dones? Go root for Cleveland! They haven't made the playoffs in a decade. Go cheer for the current Bills. GTHO with this crap. BP isn't "running this franchise into the ground." We are without the GOAT QB who is the biggest game changer in the NFL. Last year the Colts lost darn near everyone BUT Manning and still won 10 games. This year without him they are dead in the water.

As for his SB record....well you have to get there first. Look at the Bills teams. One missed kick from a SB win, and the rest were against FAR SUPERIOR NFC TEAMS. The Bills are/were a small market team in the AFC, which back then was being dominated by the NFC. They stood no chance against those Jerrah Jones Dallas team (best teams $$ could buy, then it came time to pay the piper and Dallas fell off the map). Those Bills teams were good enough to win the AFC, but had little to no shot against the NFC. How many years did the NFC win the Super Bowl in the 80s-90s? Like 10 straight?? His Bills teams were pre/start of free agency, when teams could stockpile talent (well teams with $$ like SF, Dallas, Washington). The fact the Bills even made the SB 4 times is amazing.

As for the Colts, yes, they could have done better. But as they say, football is a game of inches, decided by PLAYERS and COACHES. In 2003-2004 we were beat by better Pats defenses. In 2005, Dungy's son's death cast a pall over the team that they couldn't shake, and they still almost won. Nick Harper doesn't cut back inside and he goes for six and the Colts advance and probably take the title. That team was stacked. In 07 they were missing Freeney, and Harrison's fumble changed momentum big time (would have been 14-0 instead of the Bolts getting the ball back and tying it up). In 2008, the Colts had to travel to 8-8 San Diego despite being 12-4 (still hate that rule), and a missed block on 3rd and 2 gave the Chargers new life. They convert that 3rd and 2, game over. In 2009, well we all know the story there (Garcon, Baskett, pick six). Last year they were lucky to make the playoffs with all the injuries.

So, one terrible season and Polian is all of a sudden the worst GM ever. I agree that he's missed on some recent draft picks. I get that. But you spoiled fans just irritate me. Playoffs since 1999 except for 2001, a SB win and another appearance, perennial pro bowlers, Manning....

And I agree that this team was too dependent on Manning. That has been an organizational flaw. But who knew? And don't give me the hindsight crap. Peyton missed ONE meaningful snap his entire career dating back to high school. Don't start on the "we should've drafted a capable backup talk." It's 20/20 hindsight talk.

So, if you are like the writers at Stampede Blue and are bashing Polian, just leave. I am getting tired of this crap. Go ask the Browns/Seahawks/Raiders if they'd trade our decade for theirs. And get back to me with your response. Sure the old man is backing out the door. And if they retain Caldwell/Coyer I will join right in with the rest of you. But for now, this terrible season is all about the loss of Peyton. Plain and simple. Today's game was case in point. Painter overthrowing guys, throwing picks, underthrowing an open Collie on the 2 pt conversion attempt, poor reads...It all comes back to Manning.

[deedub75]

Oh shut it already....Polian is far from perfect, but all you armchair GMs think you could do better?? Whining about the one and dones? Go root for Cleveland! They haven't made the playoffs in a decade. Go cheer for the current Bills. GTHO with this crap. BP isn't "running this franchise into the ground." We are without the GOAT QB who is the biggest game changer in the NFL. Last year the Colts lost darn near everyone BUT Manning and still won 10 games. This year without him they are dead in the water.

As for his SB record....well you have to get there first. Look at the Bills teams. One missed kick from a SB win, and the rest were against FAR SUPERIOR NFC TEAMS. The Bills are/were a small market team in the AFC, which back then was being dominated by the NFC. They stood no chance against those Jerrah Jones Dallas team (best teams $$ could buy, then it came time to pay the piper and Dallas fell off the map). Those Bills teams were good enough to win the AFC, but had little to no shot against the NFC. How many years did the NFC win the Super Bowl in the 80s-90s? Like 10 straight?? His Bills teams were pre/start of free agency, when teams could stockpile talent (well teams with $$ like SF, Dallas, Washington). The fact the Bills even made the SB 4 times is amazing.

As for the Colts, yes, they could have done better. But as they say, football is a game of inches, decided by PLAYERS and COACHES. In 2003-2004 we were beat by better Pats defenses. In 2005, Dungy's son's death cast a pall over the team that they couldn't shake, and they still almost won. Nick Harper doesn't cut back inside and he goes for six and the Colts advance and probably take the title. That team was stacked. In 07 they were missing Freeney, and Harrison's fumble changed momentum big time (would have been 14-0 instead of the Bolts getting the ball back and tying it up). In 2008, the Colts had to travel to 8-8 San Diego despite being 12-4 (still hate that rule), and a missed block on 3rd and 2 gave the Chargers new life. They convert that 3rd and 2, game over. In 2009, well we all know the story there (Garcon, Baskett, pick six). Last year they were lucky to make the playoffs with all the injuries.

So, one terrible season and Polian is all of a sudden the worst GM ever. I agree that he's missed on some recent draft picks. I get that. But you spoiled fans just irritate me. Playoffs since 1999 except for 2001, a SB win and another appearance, perennial pro bowlers, Manning....

And I agree that this team was too dependent on Manning. That has been an organizational flaw. But who knew? And don't give me the hindsight crap. Peyton missed ONE meaningful snap his entire career dating back to high school. Don't start on the "we should've drafted a capable backup talk." It's 20/20 hindsight talk.

So, if you are like the writers at Stampede Blue and are bashing Polian, just leave. I am getting tired of this crap. Go ask the Browns/Seahawks/Raiders if they'd trade our decade for theirs. And get back to me with your response. Sure the old man is backing out the door. And if they retain Caldwell/Coyer I will join right in with the rest of you. But for now, this terrible season is all about the loss of Peyton. Plain and simple. Today's game was case in point. Painter overthrowing guys, throwing picks, underthrowing an open Collie on the 2 pt conversion attempt, poor reads...It all comes back to Manning.

Find one quote that says Polian is the worst GM ever. No one is saying that at all. Most people are saying that Polian has lost his touch with time and this happens to everyone no matter how great you are. Polian has made some questionable moves over the past few seasons and has relied too much on Peyton and I think that is what everyone is upset about. A great GM should never even sniff a winless season. A winless season won't make him the worst GM ever but it will taint his career a bit.

[cmgww]

Find one quote that says Polian is the worst GM ever. No one is saying that at all. Most people are saying that Polian has lost his touch with time and this happens to everyone no matter how great you are. Polian has made some questionable moves over the past few seasons and has relied too much on Peyton and I think that is what everyone is upset about. A great GM should never even sniff a winless season. A winless season won't make him the worst GM ever but it will taint his career a bit.

I didn't mean literally...it's just the sentiment I am getting from a spoiled fanbase that grew accustomed to automatic 10-13 win seasons year after year...He is not without fault, Hughes is clearly showing "bust signs", several plays today he was dominated. Brown, though, looked a heck of a lot better than he has in a long time. I think that's due to a line that can actually run block. In the past we had a terrible running game and I think Brown was a casualty of that. That said, yes he did build the team around Manning, but who wouldn't? Like I said before, he NEVER missed a game and only one snap in his entire pro career (and college and most of high school). Looking back, sure it seems like a bad idea. But that's just it, looking BACK...

[Fatboyslim11]

By heal some injuries you mean Joseph Addai? The other injuried players still didn't play and a large number of very good players aren't coming back beyond Peyton Manning.

Also give this team Peyton Manning even with all the other injuries and they are probably at worst 7-4 right now and everyone's attitude is very different right now. So he might not be the only reason but he is the biggest.

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. I believe even with a healthy Manning and the entire 21 other starters from last year healthy we probably would not win more than 6 games this year. Lets face it, the Colts are a talent starved team in addition to all the other problems we have discussed to death.

[number28]

Let me put it this way to all of you haters. If Polian retires or gets fired, get ready to not even come close to a SB for the next 20 years.

Who ever the next GM will be, he will not even sniff a SB. He will fall into the category of those hundreds upon hundreds of GM's that never came close.

What we have in Polian is a rarity, he has the ability to take teams to SB's. He has done it and will continue to do it.

So good luck with whoever gonna be our next GM. You all will be saying how u wish u had Polian back.

Get ready to not even come close to a SB for the next 20 years.

[wordofmouth]

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

I believe even with a healthy Manning and the entire 21 other starters from last year healthy we probably would not win more than 6 games this year.

Lets face it, the Colts are a talent starved team in addition to all the other problems we have discussed to death.

Now you've really out done yourself, and that took some doing.