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Colts Need To Go All-In With Manning Or Luck


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This might not be the most popular choice, but if I was the Colts GM then I would go all-in with Peyton Manning or all-in with Andrew Luck at the #1 pick. This team needs a lot of help all over the field, and both Manning and the #1 pick could bring us back a LOT of draft picks and/or players. The Colts do not have the luxury of keeping both for a few seasons simply because we have holes all over the field. I wish we did, but we need to many players at too many positions to keep both high-value QB's on the roster next season.

If the Colts had been successful on their past 4-5 1st-round picks (excluding the 2011 draft) and made better choices, then depth wouldn't be the issue that it is. The lack of young talent on this team wouldn't be an issue. However, we have been missing on our picks and the result is that we have a severe talent deficiency all over the field, especially on defense. Think about it, here are our positions of major need going into the offseason:

-Young QB prospect to take over for Peyton Manning

-Young elite WR to take over for Reggie Wayne

-New C to replace Jeff Saturday when he retires or leaves

-Another OG or OT to add to the Castonzo/Ijalana duo

-CB and S... our secondary is the biggest weakness on this team

-LB depth, although Brackett coming back will help

-New DE's to replace Mathis if he leaves in Free Agency

-A run-stuffing DT to pair with Nevis

Those are a lot of needs for a team to keep 2 high-level QB's on their roster. And here's the catch: with the team coming back next season as it looks now, even including the new draft picks that we will have, we are still going to struggle. We might be able to win the division (big maybe), but we aren't going to be able to cover up our deficiencies as we have in the past. We still have aging vets. If we end up taking Luck and keeping Manning, that only leaves us with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and later picks to add to our defense. Bottom line is we need more than that to get this team back on track.

With that being said, both Manning and Luck deserve to be equipped as well as possible in order to give them each the best chance to succeed. If we bring Peyton back, he is only coming back to try and win another Super Bowl. The talent that we could get for the #1 pick would be incredibly high, and would get us much closer to contending for a title. Peyton deserves that kind of commitment from us, and anything short would be incredibly disappointing.

The same goes for Luck. Being a rookie QB who will have to live in the shadow of Peyton Manning, he needs to get the best possible shot from us to allow him to succeed in the NFL. This team has a lot of holes that even Luck wouldn't be able to fix from Day One. Therefore, trading Peyton for 1st, 2nd and maybe more draft picks would let the Colts either give him a stud WR or a franchise OL who could protect him or give him a great weapon to help out. Or he could at least have a great defense to take pressure off of him. Otherwise, if he comes in to next season with a roster that is similar to what we have now, it would be extremely unfair to him and would put him in a similar place that Sam Bradford is in right now... a good franchise with very little help around him. And that's not going to help him one bit.

Either way, the Colts will have a tough choice to make. But both QB's and the franchise's future will benefit if we fully invest with either QB. Hopefully the Colts give each guy their best possible chance to succeed.

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This might not be the most popular choice, but if I was the Colts GM then I would go all-in with Peyton Manning or all-in with Andrew Luck at the #1 pick. This team needs a lot of help all over the field, and both Manning and the #1 pick could bring us back a LOT of draft picks and/or players. The Colts do not have the luxury of keeping both for a few seasons simply because we have holes all over the field. I wish we did, but we need to many players at too many positions to keep both high-value QB's on the roster next season.

If the Colts had been successful on their past 4-5 1st-round picks (excluding the 2011 draft) and made better choices, then depth wouldn't be the issue that it is. The lack of young talent on this team wouldn't be an issue. However, we have been missing on our picks and the result is that we have a severe talent deficiency all over the field, especially on defense. Think about it, here are our positions of major need going into the offseason:

-Young QB prospect to take over for Peyton Manning

-Young elite WR to take over for Reggie Wayne

-New C to replace Jeff Saturday when he retires or leaves

-Another OG or OT to add to the Castonzo/Ijalana duo

-CB and S... our secondary is the biggest weakness on this team

-LB depth, although Brackett coming back will help

-New DE's to replace Mathis if he leaves in Free Agency

-A run-stuffing DT to pair with Nevis

Those are a lot of needs for a team to keep 2 high-level QB's on their roster. And here's the catch: with the team coming back next season as it looks now, even including the new draft picks that we will have, we are still going to struggle. We might be able to win the division (big maybe), but we aren't going to be able to cover up our deficiencies as we have in the past. We still have aging vets. If we end up taking Luck and keeping Manning, that only leaves us with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and later picks to add to our defense. Bottom line is we need more than that to get this team back on track.

With that being said, both Manning and Luck deserve to be equipped as well as possible in order to give them each the best chance to succeed. If we bring Peyton back, he is only coming back to try and win another Super Bowl. The talent that we could get for the #1 pick would be incredibly high, and would get us much closer to contending for a title. Peyton deserves that kind of commitment from us, and anything short would be incredibly disappointing.

The same goes for Luck. Being a rookie QB who will have to live in the shadow of Peyton Manning, he needs to get the best possible shot from us to allow him to succeed in the NFL. This team has a lot of holes that even Luck wouldn't be able to fix from Day One. Therefore, trading Peyton for 1st, 2nd and maybe more draft picks would let the Colts either give him a stud WR or a franchise OL who could protect him or give him a great weapon to help out. Or he could at least have a great defense to take pressure off of him. Otherwise, if he comes in to next season with a roster that is similar to what we have now, it would be extremely unfair to him and would put him in a similar place that Sam Bradford is in right now... a good franchise with very little help around him. And that's not going to help him one bit.

Either way, the Colts will have a tough choice to make. But both QB's and the franchise's future will benefit if we fully invest with either QB. Hopefully the Colts give each guy their best possible chance to succeed.

Good post...though I personally lean towards the camp that wants Manning and Luck to coexist here for a few seasons. Still...I respect the way you framed your argument for the need to trade one of them. You raise some valid arguments for at least considering a trade of one of them. I don't really want it to come down to that but if forced I would probably have to put the franchise's future first and part ways with Manning with a heavy heart I might add. There is so much to consider as this draft could be pivotal and set the tone for the next decade of Colts football. It's almost overwhelming. Glad I don't have to make the decision.

You're relatively new here so welcome. I have enjoyed reading your stuff thus far...keep up the good work Pabs.

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What's wrong with investing in Manning until his career his done, but on the side training Luck. Then Manning retires, and invest with Luck. We can compensate both, you know that right?

Agreed. I honestly don't see a problem with investing the 1st pick with Luck and then spending the rest of the picks on what we need to compete for a title now.

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Agreed. I honestly don't see a problem with investing the 1st pick with Luck and then spending the rest of the picks on what we need to compete for a title now.

Thats what ppl forget about: that we have 6 more picks in the draft.

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What's wrong with investing in Manning until his career his done, but on the side training Luck. Then Manning retires, and invest with Luck. We can compensate both, you know that right?

It's not a matter of if we can compensate both, which we technically can. It's about the possibility of being able to build a more balanced and talented team with trading either one of the two QBs. This would optimize our chances of winning a Superbowl now.
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Thats what ppl forget about: that we have 6 more picks in the draft.

Yeah this. Not just 6 picks, but 6 high picks (relative to the round of course)

I don't think I'm being melodramatic to say this, but I think this is the most important draft we've had as a franchise since we drafted Manning.

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Whether it's Luck or Manning a complete overhaul of the system/structure of this team is needed. Without that the QB isn't going to matter all that much. Manning will cover up more errors and issues but it is still not going to solve the issues that this franchise faces.

You may be right, but do you see it happening? I don't, I see the colts replacing a coach or two, and making moves via the draft and maybe a FA or two, I just donw' see Polian gutting the system and rebuilding from the ground.

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You may be right, but do you see it happening? I don't, I see the colts replacing a coach or two, and making moves via the draft and maybe a FA or two, I just donw' see Polian gutting the system and rebuilding from the ground.

No i don't really see it happening either and even less likely if Manning returns which will be a mistake in my opinion. A lot of it will be based off of who they do hire if they actually send Caldwell packing. If they don't fire Caldwell it will take a perfect storm for the Colts to hold up a Super Bowl trophy in the next 5 years, and those are impossible to predict. I remember you suggesting that my standards are too high. Maybe they are, but I feel they should be.

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No i don't really see it happening either and even less likely if Manning returns which will be a mistake in my opinion. A lot of it will be based off of who they do hire if they actually send Caldwell packing. If they don't fire Caldwell it will take a perfect storm for the Colts to hold up a Super Bowl trophy in the next 5 years, and those are impossible to predict. I remember you suggesting that my standards are too high. Maybe they are, but I feel they should be.

I fully understand how fans view the Super Bowl, and alot of that is due to the NFL over hyping it in my opinion and the watering down of who can get into the playoffs. I have no problem with the Superbowl, I would just like to see the NFL make it more difficult to get into the tourney and have fewer teams, but that will never happen. As for the Colts winning or getting to another one over the next five years, anything is possible, I doubt many thought the Cards would be in the superbowl a few years back....

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I fully understand how fans view the Super Bowl, and alot of that is due to the NFL over hyping it in my opinion and the watering down of who can get into the playoffs. I have no problem with the Superbowl, I would just like to see the NFL make it more difficult to get into the tourney and have fewer teams, but that will never happen. As for the Colts winning or getting to another one over the next five years, anything is possible, I doubt many thought the Cards would be in the superbowl a few years back....

There have been 2 seasons in the past 6 to 8, that "just making the playoffs" have felt good. In 2008 with a slow start, and rebounding to make it and last year with the injuries and knowing we had to win the division to make the playoffs. Outside of that the playoffs is more of a given as opposed to something to celebrate to me. The playoffs in 99, 2000, etc yeah those felt good, I guess its a matter of living up to expectations. From a team perspective the Super Bowl has to be the end all be all for most teams. Tom Brady has 3 rings, but he's a far better quarterback over the past 5 years than he was the first 5 years and he hasn't won a ring in that time frame. That's one reason I don't hold a SB as a main factor in looking at player a vs player b, but when it comes to 1 title in the past 13 years I look at that as a massive underachievement and I put that on Polian & the coaching staffs.

The Cards are an example of a Perfect Storm. One could argue that 2006 was another one with a horrible defense playing much better than they did in the regular season. Packers barely make the playoffs last year and win it all, Recent history shows many teams that get a break or two, and make a break a or two and they are holding up the Lombardi in the end.

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Picking Luck to possibly sit behind Manning is a pick for the future. Actually, all of the picks will be for the future, so why not take Luck? He's the best bet the Colts have for a future franchise QB. Other deficiencies will be addressed as well. Any positions that need a upgrade ASAP can be through FA. Besides its been confirmed Polian will take a certain QB if available. Just keep in mind the kings ransom wont really help win a SB now.

Im just stating the counter argument, Luck or "the ransom" are both excellent choices.

New leadership can help this team get another ring next year more than a bunch of rookies. That's where the hard decisions will have to be made.

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we really only need the guys back from injury to stay healthy, and some good looking depth in the secondary, but i think the team is good enough with those players back and draft a cb and a safety, probably need some more DL depth too

draft luck if hes going to come to the nfl, put him behind manning, and all will be good, the D is not as bad as they are now, the offense is, but with good offense, the D plays better, as does the rest of team

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If Manning can play....we have to keep him.. I would trade the #1 pick and the Colts would get the world for it...Grab a QB later in the draft...and load up with the other picks....What could we honestly get for the #1 pick ?? 2 1st rounders a second and a third?? Of course it would matter on the team that wants it...but I would entertain all offers....gonna be interesting off season...more exciting than the regular season this year.

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The only problem with picking a QB later in the draft and having him as the future would be that we have that guy playing right now and look how that worked out. I think if they decide Peyton will be 100% (hard to do, I know) then I would get as much possible for the pick, use the 1 of our 2 1st picks next season on a QB, if there is 1 out there.

I just don't see Luck sitting for a few years. This whole scenario screams Packers to me, in that Favre got pushed out too early. What if Manning is playing at a high level and goes as long as Favre??

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Good post...though I personally lean towards the camp that wants Manning and Luck to coexist here for a few seasons. Still...I respect the way you framed your argument for the need to trade one of them. You raise some valid arguments for at least considering a trade of one of them. I don't really want it to come down to that but if forced I would probably have to put the franchise's future first and part ways with Manning with a heavy heart I might add. There is so much to consider as this draft could be pivotal and set the tone for the next decade of Colts football. It's almost overwhelming. Glad I don't have to make the decision.

You're relatively new here so welcome. I have enjoyed reading your stuff thus far...keep up the good work Pabs.

If Manning is healthy, he will not have a problem what so ever co existing with Luck as you wish. Luck will simply become another sorgi or painter and sit on the side lines because they are not good to replace Manning. If Manning is healthy, Luck will hate coming to the Colts because he will not get to play and I sincerely hope that is the way it goes. That means we will be in the playoffs again.
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First off, the Colts can obviously do whatever they want to do. Of course they can select Luck and sit him behind Manning if they want to. What I was saying in the original post is that this move is not the best move for the team going forward. What people need to realize is that this season and our roster and our draft and Luck and Manning's injury... none of these things are normal. All of these things are more complex than they should be, which is why the Colts have to handle this situation in a different manner than normal. Here is what I mean by this:

1) Peyton Manning's injury is not normal: If he had just torn an ACL or broken a bone or had a few concussions, then he would simply sit out until he recovers and his long-term future wouldn't be as shaky as it is now. Rather, his injury involves his neck and his nerves... this is an injury that could end his career and possibly paralyze him if he gets hit the wrong way. Plus, his recovery has been much slower than expected. Because of this, Manning's long-term future is much more in doubt and unknown than if he had just a regular injury.

2) Andrew Luck isn't your regular #1 overall pick: Every #1 overall draft pick is extremely hyped, worth a lot of value and serves as a cornerstone for a franchise for years to come. Every #1 pick also comes along with some uncertainty and bust potential. However... whether you buy into the hype or not, Andrew Luck is not your regular #1 draft pick. He is the most hyped QB prospect in over a decade. He is the likely winner of the Heisman Trophy. He is being projected as the next John Elway or Peyton Manning. He has an insane completion percentage, an excellent TD-Int rate, an Orange Bowl BCS trophy under his belt, elite mobility for a passing-QB, and prototypical size.

And on top of all of that... he is coming into a new age of the NFL. Rookie QB's are starting with more frequency now, and are actually performing extremely well. Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert are all starting in their FIRST season and playing great. And they are playing this well while experiencing a shortened offseason. If these guys are starting, then why wouldn't Andrew Luck? Also, Luck has LEVERAGE. He is only a junior in college, so if the #1 team (likely us) won't guarantee him a starting spot from Day One, he can choose to just go back to school and play another season. Again, this isn't a normal prospect under normal circumstances. If you have the chance to take Luck, he will probably want to start immediately, or at least during his rookie year.

3) Our roster need help EVERYWHERE: This terrible season has shown us more than just how valuable Peyton Manning is (he should win MVP lol). Even Peyton wouldn't be able to take this current team very far in the playoffs. We have lots of aging veterans, quite a few high-round draft picks that haven't panned out, and in general just a large deficiency in young talent. If the Colts had continued nailing their 1st and 2nd-round picks for the past 5-6 years, we wouldn't be in this situation. However, yet again, things aren't normal for this roster. This isn't your regular Colts team who is filled with skilled players all over the field, albeit with a few weaknesses on defense. No, this team lacks something at nearly every position. We need young guys to step in immediately (CB, S, OG), young guys to take over for aging vets (WR, QB, DE, C), and young guys to provide depth (DT, LB, etc).

And what is the best way to address these positions of need in this offseason? By trading one of our two VERY valuable assets, who just happen to play the same position: Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck (the #1 overall pick). Both players can bring us back a ton of value, and not just a nice 3rd or 4th round pick. No, these guys can bring in an extra 1st, 2nd, 3rd-round picks, possible future picks and maybe even some good players. That's serious value that the Colts desperately need to take advantage of, in order to bring this roster back up to where it needs to be. With that being said...

4) We have to rely on the draft: In all seriousness, what are the odds of the Colts addressing these needs through free agency? Sure, we might add a few borderline starters or a few guys for depth, but when is the last time ownership truly utilized free agency to fill in major voids on this team? That is just not their style, although many of us wish it would be. However, I am not counting on that to happen. We say it every year, "we will just address it in free agency", yet the Colts consistently bypass that route and choose to build via the draft. It's just how we work.

This is why the Colts will have to address most of these needs via the draft. That is where Manning and the #1 pick will give us their value. Yes, we have the 1st pick in each round of the draft, and that's truly a great thing. However, it is going to take more picks than we currently have to address the needs of this roster. Assuming that our 6th and 7th round picks won't contribute much next season (altho they might, but just assuming), we have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th round pick to address all of the major needs of this roster. Although they will certainly help, by no means will this address most of the positions that we need to upgrade and fill.

However, by trading Peyton or the #1 overall, we can acquire not only 3-5 more draft picks, but 3-5 picks that will be in the first few rounds of the draft. That is a lot of blue-chip talent that the Colts could really use, and also a lot of talent that we could potentially waste by not trading for them. To me, this draft is essential in maintaining the future success of our franchise, and it would be a major lost opportunity if we didn't take advantage of this.

By the way, sorry for the min-novel LOL.

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I agree. It absolutely makes no sense to keep both and its absolutely not plausible.

People who think that we are gonna have both Peyton and Luck, im sorry, you are wrong. This will never happen.

I am not sure why it makes no sense. You allow your young QB to learn and mature over the next couple of seasons while still having a qualty QB (if healthy) playing for you. I see us taking Luck with the number 1 pick and then making a slow transition from Peyton to Luck, it happens in the NFL on a number of occasions.

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This might not be the most popular choice, but if I was the Colts GM then I would go all-in with Peyton Manning or all-in with Andrew Luck at the #1 pick. This team needs a lot of help all over the field, and both Manning and the #1 pick could bring us back a LOT of draft picks and/or players. The Colts do not have the luxury of keeping both for a few seasons simply because we have holes all over the field. I wish we did, but we need to many players at too many positions to keep both high-value QB's on the roster next season.

If the Colts had been successful on their past 4-5 1st-round picks (excluding the 2011 draft) and made better choices, then depth wouldn't be the issue that it is. The lack of young talent on this team wouldn't be an issue. However, we have been missing on our picks and the result is that we have a severe talent deficiency all over the field, especially on defense. Think about it, here are our positions of major need going into the offseason:

-Young QB prospect to take over for Peyton Manning

-Young elite WR to take over for Reggie Wayne

-New C to replace Jeff Saturday when he retires or leaves

-Another OG or OT to add to the Castonzo/Ijalana duo

-CB and S... our secondary is the biggest weakness on this team

-LB depth, although Brackett coming back will help

-New DE's to replace Mathis if he leaves in Free Agency

-A run-stuffing DT to pair with Nevis

Those are a lot of needs for a team to keep 2 high-level QB's on their roster. And here's the catch: with the team coming back next season as it looks now, even including the new draft picks that we will have, we are still going to struggle. We might be able to win the division (big maybe), but we aren't going to be able to cover up our deficiencies as we have in the past. We still have aging vets. If we end up taking Luck and keeping Manning, that only leaves us with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and later picks to add to our defense. Bottom line is we need more than that to get this team back on track.

With that being said, both Manning and Luck deserve to be equipped as well as possible in order to give them each the best chance to succeed. If we bring Peyton back, he is only coming back to try and win another Super Bowl. The talent that we could get for the #1 pick would be incredibly high, and would get us much closer to contending for a title. Peyton deserves that kind of commitment from us, and anything short would be incredibly disappointing.

The same goes for Luck. Being a rookie QB who will have to live in the shadow of Peyton Manning, he needs to get the best possible shot from us to allow him to succeed in the NFL. This team has a lot of holes that even Luck wouldn't be able to fix from Day One. Therefore, trading Peyton for 1st, 2nd and maybe more draft picks would let the Colts either give him a stud WR or a franchise OL who could protect him or give him a great weapon to help out. Or he could at least have a great defense to take pressure off of him. Otherwise, if he comes in to next season with a roster that is similar to what we have now, it would be extremely unfair to him and would put him in a similar place that Sam Bradford is in right now... a good franchise with very little help around him. And that's not going to help him one bit.

Either way, the Colts will have a tough choice to make. But both QB's and the franchise's future will benefit if we fully invest with either QB. Hopefully the Colts give each guy their best possible chance to succeed.

If Manning can not play or practice this season...

take Luck and keep them both.....

If Luck and Manning meet ....they might work out a transition schedule.

Manning does not want to see his franchise collapse like this aftre he is gone..

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I am not sure why it makes no sense. You allow your young QB to learn and mature over the next couple of seasons while still having a qualty QB (if healthy) playing for you. I see us taking Luck with the number 1 pick and then making a slow transition from Peyton to Luck, it happens in the NFL on a number of occasions.

Luck will not sit.

Did Manning sit when he came in?

If Luck is what people say he is, he is not the type of player that will sit. He rather stay another season in college.

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Luck will not sit.

Did Manning sit when he came in?

If Luck is what people say he is, he is not the type of player that will sit. He rather stay another season in college.

Peyton played because we had no better option. You can look at GB, they had Rogers sit behind Farve because Farve was a better choice. NFL teams would love to be able to draft a rookie QB and then allow him at least 1 if not maybe 2 seasons to simmer and mature and learn from the bench behind a quality QB. Usually teams that draft QB's high in the draft do so because they have no other option. Look at NE, they drafted Ryan Mallott from Ark, who many believe is an NFL talent, and he is sitting behind Tom Brady. It was the Bengals hope that Dalton could have sat behind Carson Palmer for a couple of seasons, but Palmer forced their hand. Ponder in Minn sat behind McNabb for about 4-5 games before he started. This idea that Luck won't sit behind Peyton to me is laughable, Luck is good, but even he knows he has alot to learn to make the next step and what better place to do it then in Indy which has a quality QB and talent around him.

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Peyton played because we had no better option. You can look at GB, they had Rogers sit behind Farve because Farve was a better choice. NFL teams would love to be able to draft a rookie QB and then allow him at least 1 if not maybe 2 seasons to simmer and mature and learn from the bench behind a quality QB. Usually teams that draft QB's high in the draft do so because they have no other option. Look at NE, they drafted Ryan Mallott from Ark, who many believe is an NFL talent, and he is sitting behind Tom Brady. It was the Bengals hope that Dalton could have sat behind Carson Palmer for a couple of seasons, but Palmer forced their hand. Ponder in Minn sat behind McNabb for about 4-5 games before he started. This idea that Luck won't sit behind Peyton to me is laughable, Luck is good, but even he knows he has alot to learn to make the next step and what better place to do it then in Indy which has a quality QB and talent around him.

While I feel Manning was better than Harbaugh, one could argue that if we wouldn't have traded Harbaugh that Manning could have sat behind him early on, but they both would have wanted to be on the field!

Luck will want to play and I do not blame him. While Manning will remain professional as he has when he was clearly upset at times, he has held his tongue and not caused a stir. If we were to draft Luck and Manning is healthy, he will remain professional and will attempt to make the most of the situation he will be placed in. If he's healthy, trading the draft pick is the likely best case scenario for the Colts. If he's not then the drafting of Luck vs. trading the pick becomes a more viable option.

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While I feel Manning was better than Harbaugh, one could argue that if we wouldn't have traded Harbaugh that Manning could have sat behind him early on, but they both would have wanted to be on the field!

Luck will want to play and I do not blame him. While Manning will remain professional as he has when he was clearly upset at times, he has held his tongue and not caused a stir. If we were to draft Luck and Manning is healthy, he will remain professional and will attempt to make the most of the situation he will be placed in. If he's healthy, trading the draft pick is the likely best case scenario for the Colts. If he's not then the drafting of Luck vs. trading the pick becomes a more viable option.

Why does it matter what either player thinks or feels? Both are paid, I really don't care if feelings are hurt or someone gets their panites in a bind because he is or isn't playing. If we draft Luck and keep Peyton and Luck rides the bench for a few seasons, then so be it, he will get over it.

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Why does it matter what either player thinks or feels? Both are paid, I really don't care if feelings are hurt or someone gets their panites in a bind because he is or isn't playing. If we draft Luck and keep Peyton and Luck rides the bench for a few seasons, then so be it, he will get over it.

I'm just saying that if I am Andrew Luck, I'd rather go to Miami where I'm the starter, as opposed to coming here and sitting for any amount of time. I'm sure that if Manning is healthy he would rather have players that can play and help him and the team win, as opposed to someone sitting on the bench that might not play for a few years. Manning will likely keep those feelings to himself as he has in other situations that you could tell he was irritated.

I just don't see it as the best case scenario for the franchise and that has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

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1) Peyton Manning's injury is not normal: his injury involves his neck and his nerves... this is an injury that could possibly paralyze him if he gets hit the wrong way.

A common misconception. His risk is no more or less than any other player. IF he can recover the use of the damaged nerve, he should be as good (or better) than ever.

2) Andrew Luck isn't your regular #1 overall pick: Andrew Luck is not your regular #1 draft pick. He is the most hyped QB prospect in over a decade. He is the likely winner of the Heisman Trophy. He is being projected as the next John Elway or Peyton Manning. He has an insane completion percentage, an excellent TD-Int rate, an Orange Bowl BCS trophy under his belt, elite mobility for a passing-QB, and prototypical size.

All we know is what the media is throwing at us. It isn't worth much. If the Colts from office evaluates him and decides that he his worth the number one pick, terrific. I'll support them as I always do. Unfortunately most people seem to be taking it as "fact" that Luck IS the next Elway or Manning, and basing all their conclusions off of that. We know nothing of the kind.

3) Our roster need help EVERYWHERE: Even Peyton wouldn't be able to take this current team very far in the playoffs. We have lots of aging veterans, quite a few high-round draft picks that haven't panned out, and in general just a large deficiency in young talent. This isn't your regular Colts team who is filled with skilled players all over the field, albeit with a few weaknesses on defense. No, this team lacks something at nearly every position.

Every team lacks something at virtually every position. Rosters are updated on a continuous basis and churned virtually completely over the course of 5 years or so. While I'm all for trading the #1 pick and acquiring more young talent, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment of the roster. With Peyton I'm quite confident that we would be once again leading the division, and fighting for the number one overall seed. The fact that we have a horrific record signifies next to nothing other than that we are missing PM, and that the Oline is a work in progress (but improving rapidly), and the dbacks are too young (largely because of a flury of injuries) - both situations which Peyton could have overcome.

In short, while I agree with a lot of your premise, this really all comes down to Peyton's health on draft day. If he is "back", I say trade the pick and try to win as much as possible under Peyton's final contract. If he is seriously diminished, then you draft the best QB available and start rebuilding.

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This might not be the most popular choice, but if I was the Colts GM then I would go all-in with Peyton Manning or all-in with Andrew Luck at the #1 pick. This team needs a lot of help all over the field, and both Manning and the #1 pick could bring us back a LOT of draft picks and/or players. The Colts do not have the luxury of keeping both for a few seasons simply because we have holes all over the field. I wish we did, but we need to many players at too many positions to keep both high-value QB's on the roster next season.

If the Colts had been successful on their past 4-5 1st-round picks (excluding the 2011 draft) and made better choices, then depth wouldn't be the issue that it is. The lack of young talent on this team wouldn't be an issue. However, we have been missing on our picks and the result is that we have a severe talent deficiency all over the field, especially on defense. Think about it, here are our positions of major need going into the offseason:

-Young QB prospect to take over for Peyton Manning

-Young elite WR to take over for Reggie Wayne

-New C to replace Jeff Saturday when he retires or leaves

-Another OG or OT to add to the Castonzo/Ijalana duo

-CB and S... our secondary is the biggest weakness on this team

-LB depth, although Brackett coming back will help

-New DE's to replace Mathis if he leaves in Free Agency

-A run-stuffing DT to pair with Nevis

Those are a lot of needs for a team to keep 2 high-level QB's on their roster. And here's the catch: with the team coming back next season as it looks now, even including the new draft picks that we will have, we are still going to struggle. We might be able to win the division (big maybe), but we aren't going to be able to cover up our deficiencies as we have in the past. We still have aging vets. If we end up taking Luck and keeping Manning, that only leaves us with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and later picks to add to our defense. Bottom line is we need more than that to get this team back on track.

With that being said, both Manning and Luck deserve to be equipped as well as possible in order to give them each the best chance to succeed. If we bring Peyton back, he is only coming back to try and win another Super Bowl. The talent that we could get for the #1 pick would be incredibly high, and would get us much closer to contending for a title. Peyton deserves that kind of commitment from us, and anything short would be incredibly disappointing.

The same goes for Luck. Being a rookie QB who will have to live in the shadow of Peyton Manning, he needs to get the best possible shot from us to allow him to succeed in the NFL. This team has a lot of holes that even Luck wouldn't be able to fix from Day One. Therefore, trading Peyton for 1st, 2nd and maybe more draft picks would let the Colts either give him a stud WR or a franchise OL who could protect him or give him a great weapon to help out. Or he could at least have a great defense to take pressure off of him. Otherwise, if he comes in to next season with a roster that is similar to what we have now, it would be extremely unfair to him and would put him in a similar place that Sam Bradford is in right now... a good franchise with very little help around him. And that's not going to help him one bit.

Either way, the Colts will have a tough choice to make. But both QB's and the franchise's future will benefit if we fully invest with either QB. Hopefully the Colts give each guy their best possible chance to succeed.

I personally would go totally in with Peyton. Take Luck with the 1st pick and trade him for as many player or draft pics as possible. I think Luck is going to be good. But, although they dont want to act like it, the media every other year says there is a no brainer QB that is going to be great and win everyone SB's. Can anyone tell me when any of them worked out? Really, Peyton had to compete with Leaf comming out. Alot of people thought Leaf was the no brainer. Brady was one of the last picks in the draft, and how many busts have their been since then. Stick with the man that got you there. Then build around him. In a year or two there will be another cant lost QB and draft him. Sorry if that makes anyone upset. But look at the facts.

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I personally would go totally in with Peyton. Take Luck with the 1st pick and trade him for as many player or draft pics as possible. I think Luck is going to be good. But, although they dont want to act like it, the media every other year says there is a no brainer QB that is going to be great and win everyone SB's. Can anyone tell me when any of them worked out? Really, Peyton had to compete with Leaf comming out. Alot of people thought Leaf was the no brainer. Brady was one of the last picks in the draft, and how many busts have their been since then. Stick with the man that got you there. Then build around him. In a year or two there will be another cant lost QB and draft him. Sorry if that makes anyone upset. But look at the facts.

Here's a thought..

You can take Andrew Luck in case Manning does not return well.

If Manning returns 100%...

Luck can be traded before the 2013 draft to whoever then has the No.1 pick..

If Manning is limited..Luck stays and replaces him

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I would say that in making this decision, you of course would have to take Manning's health into consideraton. As we've all said, the first thing that we have to do is determine if Manning is healthy and progressing.

Aside from Manning's health is another issue. The front office really needs to determine how good Andrew Luck is. A lot of people on this forum are already stating that he is our next franchise quarterback, and that he can continue on the success Peyton Manning has established with the Colts. We don't know this for a fact.

What the front office will have to do is compare him to other COLLEGE QUARTERBACKS, and not Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or any other NFL quarterback. We have to evaluate the opportunity loss if we decide to trade the draft pick. What I mean by this is that if we pass up on drafting Andrew Luck, who else can we draft that would give us an equal shot at having the next great quarterback either in this draft of the following drafts. If we project Andrew Luck to be head and houlders above his peers, then we should draft him. If he is in the same arena as other quarterbacks, then we should definately trade the pick, and eventually draft another QB with potential. The media will portray Luck to be that much better, but let's understand that the media must have a story. Last year it was Cam Newton, and the year before it was Tebow.

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I would say that in making this decision, you of course would have to take Manning's health into consideraton. As we've all said, the first thing that we have to do is determine if Manning is healthy and progressing.

Aside from Manning's health is another issue. The front office really needs to determine how good Andrew Luck is. A lot of people on this forum are already stating that he is our next franchise quarterback, and that he can continue on the success Peyton Manning has established with the Colts. We don't know this for a fact.

What the front office will have to do is compare him to other COLLEGE QUARTERBACKS, and not Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or any other NFL quarterback. We have to evaluate the opportunity loss if we decide to trade the draft pick. What I mean by this is that if we pass up on drafting Andrew Luck, who else can we draft that would give us an equal shot at having the next great quarterback either in this draft of the following drafts. If we project Andrew Luck to be head and houlders above his peers, then we should draft him. If he is in the same arena as other quarterbacks, then we should definately trade the pick, and eventually draft another QB with potential. The media will portray Luck to be that much better, but let's understand that the media must have a story. Last year it was Cam Newton, and the year before it was Tebow.

You are exactly right, our front office's evaluation of Luck and Manning's health at the time are the two vital pieces of information to solving this entire dilemma. It's a great problem to have, but it also presents the franchise with so many different paths to take. And who knows which one will be the best one? No one. All we can hope for is that our front office makes the best possible and most likely projection and goes with it all the way. We have a LOOOOONG time before the NFL Draft, so the situation of both players is going to change a lot.

Also, I do want to say that Luck is certainly a different case than other #1 QB's. Last year's top pick was Cam Newton, and for most of the season and even after the championship, many draft analysts were wondering if he would even be a 1st-round pick, or if he should be the #1 QB taken. He was definitely not a sure thing for the entire process. As for Tebow, no one ever projected him to be an amazing QB, heck most people thought he was a 2nd or 3rd-round pick. No one was talking him up to be a franchise cornerstone. The story on him was simply if he could play at this level.

Yes, every QB gets their fair share of hype and accolades. But anyone who has been following the media's draft coverage for the past year or so has seen one thing stay consistent throughout... that Andrew Luck is the best NFL QB prospect anyone has seen in years. He has consistently been mentioned as the #1 overall pick even dating back to his sophomore year. And nothing this season has given anyone reason to waver from that.

Whether you agree with it or not is another story. What is true is that Andrew Luck is the most hyped, most celebrated and most anticipated QB draft pick in years, which makes this a tougher decision than most. The Colts could be holding on to the most valuable QB in 10 years, or they will be holding on to the most valuable #1 overall pick in 10 years. Do you take the stud or do you take advantage of the trade value? It's going to be very interesting to see what happens.

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A common misconception. His risk is no more or less than any other player. IF he can recover the use of the damaged nerve, he should be as good (or better) than ever.

All we know is what the media is throwing at us. It isn't worth much. If the Colts from office evaluates him and decides that he his worth the number one pick, terrific. I'll support them as I always do. Unfortunately most people seem to be taking it as "fact" that Luck IS the next Elway or Manning, and basing all their conclusions off of that. We know nothing of the kind.

Every team lacks something at virtually every position. Rosters are updated on a continuous basis and churned virtually completely over the course of 5 years or so. While I'm all for trading the #1 pick and acquiring more young talent, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment of the roster. With Peyton I'm quite confident that we would be once again leading the division, and fighting for the number one overall seed. The fact that we have a horrific record signifies next to nothing other than that we are missing PM, and that the Oline is a work in progress (but improving rapidly), and the dbacks are too young (largely because of a flury of injuries) - both situations which Peyton could have overcome.

In short, while I agree with a lot of your premise, this really all comes down to Peyton's health on draft day. If he is "back", I say trade the pick and try to win as much as possible under Peyton's final contract. If he is seriously diminished, then you draft the best QB available and start rebuilding.

You are sadly delusional re our current roster. It flat out stinks (apart from a few gems), and is in serious need of repair. Our once great DE's have been worked out. Reggie is old and tired, Jeff is hanging on in there, but for how long, our RB corp is flat out average, and we have Bethea in the backfield. Garcon's average, Collie is a shadow of himself, and Clark looks done.

At least we can punt well.

We need way more than a Manning miracle to lift us beyond mediocrity next season.

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You are sadly delusional re our current roster. It flat out stinks (apart from a few gems), and is in serious need of repair. Our once great DE's have been worked out. Reggie is old and tired, Jeff is hanging on in there, but for how long, our RB corp is flat out average, and we have Bethea in the backfield. Garcon's average, Collie is a shadow of himself, and Clark looks done.

At least we can punt well.

We need way more than a Manning miracle to lift us beyond mediocrity next season.

Agreed. I think a new Colts era has begun and Luck is probably a great place to start. A lot of our vets are on the downhill slide and the sooner we realize this the sooner we can start rebuilding towards a contender. I just don't see any way from a salary standpoint that the Colts can keep both Manning and Luck. A very hard decision is going to have to be made and we will know a lot more in just a month or two.

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You are sadly delusional re our current roster. It flat out stinks (apart from a few gems), and is in serious need of repair. Our once great DE's have been worked out. Reggie is old and tired, Jeff is hanging on in there, but for how long, our RB corp is flat out average, and we have Bethea in the backfield. Garcon's average, Collie is a shadow of himself, and Clark looks done.

At least we can punt well.

We need way more than a Manning miracle to lift us beyond mediocrity next season.

Actually apparently I'm happily delusional about our roster. You can certainly disagree, although once again your choice of words are personally insulting. Such a gent.

In my opinion our DEs are as good as ever (remember way way back to like Sept or so) but they don't have time to get to the QB because of the way offenses are playing us (a function of our offense not scaring anyone and the subpar pass coverage). They are getting up there, but I would expect at least another 2-3 good years from them after this one.

Reggie has succeeded for years by having perfect communication with Peyton, great route running skills, intelligence, a wonderful attitude, and magical hands among other things. The lack of breakaway speed isn't a concern. Unfortunately Peyton isn't playing. The attitude has left something to be desired recently, but the rest is still there, and when Peyton comes back, I would expect the attitude to return as well. He claimed to have reported to camp in his best shape in years. He could play at this same level for several more years as well.

I thought that Jeff was done by the end of last year, so this year has been a pleasant surprise. Who knows what he has left. Personally I would expect him to give it is all and come back rather than go out like this. If he doesn't, or can't, Pollack will get his chance. The guy has looked much better this year, and he still isn't playing at his natural position. I would expect him to take center and a guard to be drafted - as the evolution of the front line nears completion. When all the kinks are worked out, Castanzo, Reitz, Pollack, draft pick, and Ijalana may well be the best line we've had in a VERY long time.

Our RBs may not be superstars, but they can all be explosive in this offense. The fact that we have three usable backs now (including a Mr inside) instead of the ONE that we appeared to have last year is a major plus actually.

We do have Bethea, plus Powers is pretty good, I think that Thomas is going to be a playmaker, and Caldwell and/or Lefeged should provide decent depth. I would expect DB help through the draft, and maturity from the current group to improve them regardless.

For an average receiver Garcon can be pretty explosive. He's been more reliable, he's made some big plays, and his blocking is great. The guy is stronger and faster than average - Peyton can make him shine.

I'm not quite sure what to think about Collie. He may well have changed his game since the injury, but with Peyton he was getting endless explosive passes down the middle. Without Peyton it is hard to be sure why that isn't happening. It is entirely possible that he will look just as good next year as he did in the past.

Clark is definitely getting up there as well - the drops, etc are alarming - but just like with Collie, it is hard to tell if he's "lack of explosive plays" is because of decline, or because there's no Peyton. We will find out.

But considering the questions about all four receivers (I'd like to see Gonzalez getting a chance to show what he can do asap) I wouldn't be surprised at all if a high pick is used on either a TE or WR. It may well be time to add a new toy to the mix.

And then there is Nevis, Angerer, Wheeler, Conner, Moala, Matthews, etc. There is some talent emerging, and the draft will bring more as always. I think that there are lots of things to be optimistic about. Yes, you are correct in your insinuation that we could use another pro-bowl quality player or two. Thus my hope that we trade the number one pick so that we get the opportunity to draft what we need.

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This is the best quote i have heard i agree 100%. Rebuild with Luck, or get picks for a final SB run for Peyton. Having peyton and Luck will not get us back to glory. I love Peyton and i want him to stay but i am a colts fan and getting back to the SB is my main priority.

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It's not a matter of if we can compensate both, which we technically can. It's about the possibility of being able to build a more balanced and talented team with trading either one of the two QBs. This would optimize our chances of winning a Superbowl now.

This is true, but you did see the last decade right? I don't think you could ever be short on top tier talent at QB.

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  1. this is just plain *ic.
  2. you forget the new agreements over the lockout they made? you can pay rookies a minimum now. give luck 500,000 then u can afford to have manning and luck on the roster..which they should , earn the money and prove themselves b4 they get a big contract.. he needs at least 2 or 3 years to learn and understand the system. i would never start anew on a franchise with a rookie quarterback that could be a bust. manning is the only rookie in the colts history that did any good.
  3. just because we cant use the 1st round pick on our problem areas like cornerbacks and wr or defensive linemen, doesnt mean anything. there are plenty of great players to pick from in the later rounds. just need to choose wisely. its all a gamble. late round picks have had more success then a 1st round 1st pick ever could. manning and luck WILL co-exist if the colts want to keep their fanbase and winning going. later rounds we might have what the 32 pick in the 2nd round? thats still pretty darn good i say. i feel our 1st 3 picks are going to be high quality. 1st round: QB ,2nd round: CB 3rd round: DT or WR..

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Actually apparently I'm happily delusional about our roster. You can certainly disagree, although once again your choice of words are personally insulting. Such a gent.

In my opinion our DEs are as good as ever (remember way way back to like Sept or so) but they don't have time to get to the QB because of the way offenses are playing us (a function of our offense not scaring anyone and the subpar pass coverage). They are getting up there, but I would expect at least another 2-3 good years from them after this one.

Reggie has succeeded for years by having perfect communication with Peyton, great route running skills, intelligence, a wonderful attitude, and magical hands among other things. The lack of breakaway speed isn't a concern. Unfortunately Peyton isn't playing. The attitude has left something to be desired recently, but the rest is still there, and when Peyton comes back, I would expect the attitude to return as well. He claimed to have reported to camp in his best shape in years. He could play at this same level for several more years as well.

I thought that Jeff was done by the end of last year, so this year has been a pleasant surprise. Who knows what he has left. Personally I would expect him to give it is all and come back rather than go out like this. If he doesn't, or can't, Pollack will get his chance. The guy has looked much better this year, and he still isn't playing at his natural position. I would expect him to take center and a guard to be drafted - as the evolution of the front line nears completion. When all the kinks are worked out, Castanzo, Reitz, Pollack, draft pick, and Ijalana may well be the best line we've had in a VERY long time.

Our RBs may not be superstars, but they can all be explosive in this offense. The fact that we have three usable backs now (including a Mr inside) instead of the ONE that we appeared to have last year is a major plus actually.

We do have Bethea, plus Powers is pretty good, I think that Thomas is going to be a playmaker, and Caldwell and/or Lefeged should provide decent depth. I would expect DB help through the draft, and maturity from the current group to improve them regardless.

For an average receiver Garcon can be pretty explosive. He's been more reliable, he's made some big plays, and his blocking is great. The guy is stronger and faster than average - Peyton can make him shine.

I'm not quite sure what to think about Collie. He may well have changed his game since the injury, but with Peyton he was getting endless explosive passes down the middle. Without Peyton it is hard to be sure why that isn't happening. It is entirely possible that he will look just as good next year as he did in the past.

Clark is definitely getting up there as well - the drops, etc are alarming - but just like with Collie, it is hard to tell if he's "lack of explosive plays" is because of decline, or because there's no Peyton. We will find out.

But considering the questions about all four receivers (I'd like to see Gonzalez getting a chance to show what he can do asap) I wouldn't be surprised at all if a high pick is used on either a TE or WR. It may well be time to add a new toy to the mix.

And then there is Nevis, Angerer, Wheeler, Conner, Moala, Matthews, etc. There is some talent emerging, and the draft will bring more as always. I think that there are lots of things to be optimistic about. Yes, you are correct in your insinuation that we could use another pro-bowl quality player or two. Thus my hope that we trade the number one pick so that we get the opportunity to draft what we need.

Show me the personal insult, and I will most definitely apologise, as no personal insult was intended.

And whilst you followed up with a very decent riposte re the roster, I still believe you are viewing it through your fingers. At some point we have to decide who our #1 WR is, and I don't see it being anyone on the team right now. We are all over the place re our TE's. We have no ready to go replacements for our DE's (please don't even mention Hughes), our O-Line is still a big ?, although I do have a feeling it could get really good. Angerer is good, no doubt, but I think Powers is overrated. Thomas must be your cousin or something (take that as a joke, not an insult). Nevis, too early to tell, but he could be a gem. Bethea is a superstar.

However, this is all moot if we don't ransack the coaching staff.

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Show me the personal insult, and I will most definitely apologise, as no personal insult was intended.

And whilst you followed up with a very decent riposte re the roster, I still believe you are viewing it through your fingers. At some point we have to decide who our #1 WR is, and I don't see it being anyone on the team right now. We are all over the place re our TE's. We have no ready to go replacements for our DE's (please don't even mention Hughes), our O-Line is still a big ?, although I do have a feeling it could get really good. Angerer is good, no doubt, but I think Powers is overrated. Thomas must be your cousin or something (take that as a joke, not an insult). Nevis, too early to tell, but he could be a gem. Bethea is a superstar.

Saying that someone is "viewing it through your fingers" is amusing, harmless, and gets the point across. Saying that someone is "sadly delusional" suggests that you think they are mentally defective. I'm happy to hear that you didn't intend to insult me. I've been deflecting your comments in other threads recently without being too obnoxious in reply (I hope) to try and get the point across that it isn't necessary to belittle somebody in order to express a difference of opinion. Being civil results in conversations, such as what we are now having, instead of arguments, which I am just tired of.

We actually don't differ much at all. My fundamental point in response to this thread topic is that I'd rather see a difference maker come in at wide receiver than see an extra QB on the bench. IF the oline stabilizes (and we appear to be similarly optimistic), and Reggie isn't double teamed constantly, that might be enough to return the offense to being as high scoring as any in the league. It's important that Clark or Collie step it up again.

I'm hopeful about the unmentionable DE, but not counting on him. It is also entirely possible that they will use the highest pick they get on a DE instead of a WR, if a ready replacement for Freeney is available. He is a rare player and the defense can't function without him.

Powers appeared to take a step back early this year, but has looked better the past three games - finally "making some plays". In my opinion the entire defense has looked better the past three games, and it's entirely possible that both statements are related to Thomas, since that's when he took over. I'm not saying that he is a star, just that he has been a dramatic upgrade from Lacey, and he looks like he has the skills and confidence to actually break up passes and make interceptions, instead of just waiting until the ball is caught and trying not to get burned. For the first three games of a career it hasn't been bad, and there have been a lot of nears misses that suggest he can be much more effective with experience.

I think that the entire defense improves when Nevis is on the field, and Matthews has enough impressive moments to suggest that he could make the squad next year at Foster's expense (I'm a Rutgers fan, but he's just too freaking small to play DT). They've already used two recent high picks on DTs, so while it seems like a hole, I wouldn't expect them to do it again unless the perfect guy drops to them. Yes, the DE's are getting old, but much of the rest is ridiculously young - a big part of this years difficulties. It is reasonable to expect several of them to jump forward in effectiveness next year.

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