New Coaching Staff (Merge)

[Blue Horseshoe]

Peyton is/was a great passer and reader of the defense, but as in the playoffs the opposing team made him one dimensional and they shut that down. I want a Montana, Aikman, Brees and Rogers style of QB.

Oh,.you mean a quarterback with a real running game and and a defense? You'll have to talk to Polian about that one.

[coltsfanmilyman]

So no other quality QB can pick up and run the system?

Run our system the way he does, heck no! We saw the failed Collins experiment, he was a quality qb. The team was built around him, if you can't see that there is no hope for you bro. . . .

[ponys]

Oh,.you mean a quarterback with a real running game and and a defense? You'll have to talk to Polian about that one.

True he should not have let Edge go.

[dn4192]

True he should not have let Edge go.

Edge was on the downside of his career, if you look after he left here he really did nothing, RB basically have a 3-5 year window and then production tails off.

[dn4192]

Run our system the way he does, heck no! We saw the failed Collins experiment, he was a quality qb. The team was built around him, if you can't see that there is no hope for you bro. . . .

Collins a quality QB? Maybe 8-10 years ago. Put Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees or Tom Brady back there and let them learn the system and they will be as successful.

[ponys]

Edge was on the downside of his career, if you look after he left here he really did nothing, RB basically have a 3-5 year window and then production tails off.

Right 2 straight years at 1500+ yds, 2000+ and 1800+ yds from scrimage and 9 and 14 td's.

He went to Arizona and still managed to get 1100+ and 1200+ yds rushing.

I agree he could have played 4 to 6 more years in our system.

I'd take him over Addia anyday.

[dn4192]

Right 2 straight years at 1500+ yds, 2000+ and 1800+ yds from scrimage and 9 and 14 td's.

He went to Arizona and still managed to get 1100+ and 1200+ yds rushing.

I agree he could have played 4 to 6 more years in our system.

I'd take him over Addia anyday.

What would have Edge cost you cap wise compared to what Addia cost us?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Addai's cap # in 2006 was $ 1,075,000

James cap # in 2006 with Arizona was $ 9,500,770

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/Colts/salaries/2006-07

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/Cardinals/salaries/2006

The problem with retaining James was Polian foolishly let him play under his franchise tag # of $ 9,081,000 in 2005, when that 9 million could have been part of a signing bonus in an extension that could have kept James a Colt from 2006-2009 or so. That 9 million was more than the signing bonus James had in Arizona and almost as much as his guaranteed dollars.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/player/Edgerrin-James?loc=interstitialskip

ESPN.com has confirmed that the four-year contract is worth $30 million. James received an initial signing bonus of $7 million and will pocket a $4.5 million roster bonus on the seventh day of the 2006 league year, essentially the end of this week. The base salaries in the contract are $3.25 million (for 2006), $5.25 million (2007), $5 million (2008) and $5 million (2009).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2365467

From 2006-2009 Addai earned 6,666,800, so to say Addai was a cheaper alternative is an understatement.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/player/Joseph-Addai

[dn4192]

Addai's cap # in 2006 was $ 1,075,000

James cap # in 2006 with Arizona was $ 9,500,770

http://content.usato...alaries/2006-07

http://content.usato...s/salaries/2006

The problem with retaining James was Polian foolishly let him play under his franchise tag # of $ 9,081,000 in 2005, when that 9 million could have been part of a signing bonus in an extension that could have kept James a Colt from 2006-2009 or so. That 9 million was more than the signing bonus James had in Arizona and almost as much as his guaranteed dollars.

http://content.usato...nterstitialskip

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=2365467

From 2006-2009 Addai earned 6,666,800, so to say Addai was a cheaper alternative is an understatement.

http://content.usato...er/Joseph-Addai

I doubt Polian had many options with taging Edge, if the player isn't willing to sign a deal you either tag him or release him don't you?

[FireJimCaldwell]

I doubt Polian had many options with taging Edge, if the player isn't willing to sign a deal you either tag him or release him don't you?

If my memory serves me correctly I'm not even certain Polian offered him anything. If he would have made an offer in 2005, without tagging him, he could have bundled that 9 million into a package and should have been able to retain him. Edge wasn't the same after the knee injury, but he was still an elite back.

[21isSuperman]

If that were the case, our QB"s wouldn't be throwing at a higher rate than Peyton did in 2004, and every other year outside of the last three, at a higher rate than Tom Brady ever has except for this year, at a higher rate than Dan Marino in 84, at a higher rate than Brett Favre ever did in Green Bay, more than Aaron Rodgers ever and within 3% of Drew Brees high ratios.

Manning seems to respect him. Dilfer seems to respect him but the stats say that he is clueless.

I don't think lots of passing necessarily means he's a bad coach. Every year, teams in the NFL pass more than they did the year before. Also, poor O-line play can be a fault of Howard Mudd, Metzelaars, and simply not enough talent.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't think lots of passing necessarily means he's a bad coach. Every year, teams in the NFL pass more than they did the year before. Also, poor O-line play can be a fault of Howard Mudd, Metzelaars, and simply not enough talent.

With what is throwing the ball, it's a poor decision. If Manning were out there it would be understandable, but he's having Painter throw the ball like he's equal to Manning and well, how do i put this. He's not.

[BOTT]

Peyton is/was a great passer and reader of the defense, but as in the playoffs the opposing team made him one dimensional and they shut that down. I want a Montana, Aikman, Brees and Rogers style of QB.

i don't even know where to start with this.....

[Ramblinwreck7]

Do what put up a bunch of numbers and win 1 SuperBowl in 13 years? He's a great QB but I think too many people elevate him way too high.

BTW I'd take a Montana over Manning any day.

You do that, I'll stick with the better quarterback in Peyton Manning.

[thetigerfox]

You do that, I'll stick with the better quarterback in Peyton Manning.

Def take Manning here too.

[dn4192]

You do that, I'll stick with the better quarterback in Peyton Manning.

How does Peyton rate higher then Montana?

[manning2dallas]

Manning over Montana? Maybe if I was smoking the same stuff I did in college in the 70s. Maybe.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Manning over Montana? Maybe if I was smoking the same stuff I did in college in the 70s. Maybe.

You destroyed some of your brain cells in college then.

[Ramblinwreck7]

How does Peyton rate higher then Montana?

Hmmm... maybe because Peyton is better? How can you not put Peyton ahead of Montana? Joe won 4 Superbowls with a very talented team. Isn't that the same argument that colts fans use against Brady? He won Super Bowls when he had a very talented team. I'd easily put Montana ahead of Tom Brady, but not ahead of Peyton. How can we compare the 2 at different times anyway?

[IndyTrav]

How does Peyton rate higher then Montana?

For me personally I break it down like this.

If someone asks me who the best quarterback is, I think of the QB position. Combination of accuracy,intelligence,arm strength etc etc. And to me the answer to that is Peyton Manning.

Now if you ask me who has a better career or deep pass or team etc, well I can be swayed.

[dn4192]

Hmmm... maybe because Peyton is better? How can you not put Peyton ahead of Montana? Joe won 4 Superbowls with a very talented team. Isn't that the same argument that colts fans use against Brady? He won Super Bowls when he had a very talented team. I'd easily put Montana ahead of Tom Brady, but not ahead of Peyton. How can we compare the 2 at different times anyway?

I pick Montana because he had "it". I can't tell you what "it" is, but he had it. From leading ND back in the Cotton Bowl in horrible weather conditions to the drive vs. the Cowboys and even the Bengals in the Superbowl, Montana rose his game a notch or two in big games and I have not always seen that from Peyton.

[Captain Americolt]

I pick Montana because he had "it". I can't tell you what "it" is, but he had it. From leading ND back in the Cotton Bowl in horrible weather conditions to the drive vs. the Cowboys and even the Bengals in the Superbowl, Montana rose his game a notch or two in big games and I have not always seen that from Peyton.

Peyton doesnt have "it" either? You fail to see that he never had a solid team around him.

[Ramblinwreck7]

I pick Montana because he had "it". I can't tell you what "it" is, but he had it. From leading ND back in the Cotton Bowl in horrible weather conditions to the drive vs. the Cowboys and even the Bengals in the Superbowl, Montana rose his game a notch or two in big games and I have not always seen that from Peyton.

Does that mean Montana was not good in normal games? And come on, "it"... you've got to come up with something better than that, because you don't even know what "it" is .

[NM_Colts]

OMG...how many players were missing due to injuries during that 10-6 season? At what point over the past decade during the colts run have they ever substained that many injuries to key personal? And to say...well all teams have injuries, you are correct, what was the record of the SB champions? Oh wait 10-6 also, so the only difference between them and us was Aaron Rogers got hot and Peyton Manning didn't. coaching.

Fixed it for you. :cute:

[NM_Colts]

I see our 0-9 season occuring for the following reasons:

1. No production from the back up QB. When your offense can't even generate scores over an entire game at home and your starting QB has a whopping 97 yards and a pick in 3 quarters it is going to force your defense into positions it is not designed to be successful at.

2. Some key injuries to other positions that have resulted in playing players who basically are not NFL material at this point.

3. Heavy limitiation of bringing in FA and such due to a salary cap and having your top Salary player not playing and not able to be relased released off the books.

4. A stubbornis stubborness of your coaching staff to coach to the talent you have available and not coach to what you had.

5. Inexperienced young but talented players still learning.

I see those 5 things as reasons as to why we are 0-9.

I would put your #4 as #1. As for #1, I don't disagree with it but would say with the current state of the O-line, even the best QB's playing behind it would struggle. Painter started off doing rather well and his current state of play isn't all on him. My gut feeling is that at this point he's feling the pressure of 0-9 and trying too hard.

[GrizzColt]

Dungy was a product of the Steelers, The Rooneys and Chuck Noll's system. For the most part, he brought their ideas and their way of doing things to the Colts and it worked. It worked for him with the Vikings defense, it worked with the Bucs and it worked for the Colts. The Steelers structure is the model for the NFL. They hire a coach and they keep him. That being said, the Steelers interviewed a lot of people after Cowher and when everyone thought they would hire one of their assistants, they end up hiring the guy that impressed them the most...Tomlin...and he goes on to win a Super Bowl with them. I guarantee he is their coach for many years. We shouldn't have hired Caldwell because he was in our system. We should hire the impressive guy and keep him for many years.

[dn4192]

Peyton doesnt have "it" either? You fail to see that he never had a solid team around him.

I would disagree, I would say the Colts record would disagree with that statement, you don't win on the level they have without a strong team, this is not basketball...you don't win like the Colts have won consistantly with just 1 player.

[dn4192]

Does that mean Montana was not good in normal games? And come on, "it"... you've got to come up with something better than that, because you don't even know what "it" is .

No I don't, if you watched Montana's career you would have seen it also, he is a step above Petyon....sorry but that is just how it is.

[dn4192]

Fixed it for you. :cute:

Outside of it being wrong...

[ponys]

No I don't, if you watched Montana's career you would have seen it also, he is a step above Petyon....sorry but that is just how it is.

Now we can agree, maybe these people aren't old enough to remember Montana and the Cotton Bowl etc. Payton is in my top 5 all time but not the best. Why can't people deal with that? I don't think Payton is better that Unitus or Staubach either. Passing the ball and reading the defenses isn't all to being a great QB. He is in a class with Marino and Moon, as great passers.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Now we can agree, maybe these people aren't old enough to remember Montana and the Cotton Bowl etc. Payton is in my top 5 all time but not the best. Why can't people deal with that? I don't think Payton is better that Unitus or Staubach either. Passing the ball and reading the defenses isn't all to being a great QB. He is in a class with Marino and Moon, as great passers.

Yeah Payton is easily a top 5 back. I wouldn't call him the best though. I would give that to Barry Sanders.

[ponys]

I don't think lots of passing necessarily means he's a bad coach. Every year, teams in the NFL pass more than they did the year before. Also, poor O-line play can be a fault of Howard Mudd, Metzelaars, and simply not enough talent.

Howard Mudd is not on the team he's at Philadelphia, does that answer your question?

[thetigerfox]

Two different era's. Give Manning an All-Pro, no cap spend like there's no tomorrow team for 10 years and yeah, than we could tell.

[ponys]

Yeah Payton is easily a top 5 back. I wouldn't call him the best though. I would give that to Barry Sanders.

Well if you mean running backs, I'm talking quarterbacks. But, I would place Earl Campbell ahead of Barry.

[ponys]

Two different era's. Give Manning an All-Pro, no cap spend like there's no tomorrow team for 10 years and yeah, than we could tell.

Touche'

[FireJimCaldwell]

Well if you mean running backs, I'm talking quarterbacks. But, I would place Earl Campbell ahead of Barry.

You mentioned Payton and the only Payton I know of is Walter, well there was Eddie Payton, but he wasn't nearly the back his brother was.

Barry's the best I've seen, Campbell was a heck of a full back, different positions in my opinion but Campbell was one of the best.

Quarterbacks.. I'd rank them two ways.. Active and retired.. Best Active.. Peyton Manning.. Best retired Dan Marino.

[dn4192]

You mentioned Payton and the only Payton I know of is Walter, well there was Eddie Payton, but he wasn't nearly the back his brother was.

Barry's the best I've seen, Campbell was a heck of a full back, different positions in my opinion but Campbell was one of the best.

Quarterbacks.. I'd rank them two ways.. Active and retired.. Best Active.. Peyton Manning.. Best retired Dan Marino.

Interesting choice with Marino, as for Peyton, he was the best active, but now I have to go with Rogers.

[thetigerfox]

Two different era's. Give Manning an All-Pro, no cap spend like there's no tomorrow team for 10 years and yeah, than we could tell.

Touche'

Thanks, kinda proud of that one myself.lol I'd even plus 1 it if I could

[ponys]

Thanks, kinda proud of that one myself.lol I'd even plus 1 it if I could

I still would take Montana, but I wouldn't be unhappy with Manning.

[Moose Of Woe]

I would disagree, I would say the Colts record would disagree with that statement, you don't win on the level they have without a strong team, this is not basketball...you don't win like the Colts have won consistantly with just 1 player.

If it's such a strong team year in and year out - how did we fall off a cliff to the point we have not, and likely WILL not win a single game? With the loss of _ONE_ key player?

Mind you we're beat up now, sure. But Manning was pretty much the only one out to start the season and we got obliterated. As the weeks went on and more guys went down, it made little to no difference as the "next man up" sucked as much as the one before him.

This isn't a strong team. It's one great player elevating what little talent there IS on this team (guys like Reggie, Dallas, Collie) to new heights. Also giving the entire useless defense as much of a breather as possible while losing the field position/special teams battle EVERY SINGLE WEEK. Not to mention dragging the massive amount of dead weight players/coaches/GM we have to success.

The Patriots are (were?) a strong team. (11-5)

The Steelers are a strong team. (3-1)

The Colts are a strong team. (0-16? 2-14 at best)

One of these three does not belong.

The Colts are:

-The GOAT QB

-A few ok wideouts one of which can't catch, one can't beat anybody man to man, one may not last the season, and one is only good for fair catching. All of which vanish without PM.

-A former great tight end who is now yet another member of the Colts injury prone club.

-A running back who is also a member of the CIPC (Addai).He's a good pass blocker at least when he plays.

-An aging and no longer effective two headed monster on D (Frathis) a

-The two Pats. (Angerer and our canal diving Punter).

-Vinny is ok.

-Nevis (?)

-Castonzo if he works out.

-Then, there is the rest of this mess including the ENTIRE coaching staff and our ever so humble and contrite GM.

Seriously. THAT'S IT. That's pathetic.