The Gary Brackett Thing

[John Waylon]

So it's pretty obvious we have a MLB controversy on our hands. Angerer is a decent OLB, but let's not sit around and bullcrap ourselves: He's a great middle man. Better than Brackett has been since about 2009.

Therein lies the problem, though... We're financially committed to Brackett. (Like the Hayden deal before it, I thought it was overblown... Gary's been great for us, no doubt. But at that point in his career, that deal we gave him was more than generous.)

So how do we handle this moving forward? Could we shift Brackett outside? But then again, should we? Honestly, in recent memory, Brackett hasn't played any better than Conner has this season. Not saying Conner has been better, but Brackett hasn't been noticeably better than Conner. On the other side, and I NEVER thought I would find myself about to say this, Wheeler ( ) has turned into a pretty decent LB as well, and I think he will only get better from here on out. Time is definitely on his side, whereas not so much for Brackett.

So what do we do?

I don't think trading Brackett would make much sense, I don't think we'd get enough for him to offset the cap penalty we'd have to pay for him, and, I believe, like Hayden, his deal was heavily guaranteed so outright releasing him is just going to eat cap space for a guy who isn't around... But we're obviously in a position that something needs to be done, because, with the way Angerer is playing, returning him to the starting MLB spot next season just wouldn't be right.

[oldunclemark]

Waylon...

I get into debates on this..but I think we miss Brackett..

...we dont key key run stops on late downs...and at the goal line..

..and while he's slower...Brackett was in position on pass coverage more than Pat Angerer is..

I move Brackett back to the middle and flank him with Conner (or Sims) and Angerer.

as we know...Bracket doesn't have a knee injury..so he should come back well next season from a mobility standpoint

I think we have a wealth there and not a problem../

[IndySouth]

So it's pretty obvious we have a MLB controversy on our hands. Angerer is a decent OLB, but let's not sit around and bullcrap ourselves: He's a great middle man. Better than Brackett has been since about 2009.

Therein lies the problem, though... We're financially committed to Brackett. (Like the Hayden deal before it, I thought it was overblown... Gary's been great for us, no doubt. But at that point in his career, that deal we gave him was more than generous.)

So how do we handle this moving forward? Could we shift Brackett outside? But then again, should we? Honestly, in recent memory, Brackett hasn't played any better than Conner has this season. Not saying Conner has been better, but Brackett hasn't been noticeably better than Conner. On the other side, and I NEVER thought I would find myself about to say this, Wheeler () has turned into a pretty decent LB as well, and I think he will only get better from here on out. Time is definitely on his side, whereas not so much for Brackett.

So what do we do?

I don't think trading Brackett would make much sense, I don't think we'd get enough for him to offset the cap penalty we'd have to pay for him, and, I believe, like Hayden, his deal was heavily guaranteed so outright releasing him is just going to eat cap space for a guy who isn't around... But we're obviously in a position that something needs to be done, because, with the way Angerer is playing, returning him to the starting MLB spot next season just wouldn't be right.

Quite the quandary! I would gladly vote for Angerer if only he were better in pass coverage. Pat has exactly 0 passes defensed and interceptions this season and leads the team (league actually) for tackles. This tells me that teams aren't afraid to throw at whomever he is "covering." Gary Brackett, for all that people have said about his ineffectiveness against the run, is actually very comparable in terms of stuffs and tackles for loss. This has fueled my contention that, while Angerer is a sure tackler and an active guy, Brackett is still a more complete linebacker. I'm not sure what I would do with this group but it is encouraging to actually have a competitive situation, for once, at linebacker.

[IndyTrav]

Keep Pat put, and hope his coverage skills continue to improve. We have enough arm tacklers on this team without Brackett leading the charge. There isn't enough room on an NFL team to have a small, aging, injury recovering MLB making top money.

[Smitto]

We may not agree on painter but i definitely agree with keeping pat in the middle... contrast to what most ppl believe on here pat is a much better coverage LB than brackett.

[John Waylon]

You'll get little to no argument from me, or anyone that Gary's pass defense is better than Angerer's. But Angerer is the better LB, sorry to say. Angerer is getting better at his pass coverage and he has a bright future in that middle spot. I was saying last season we were playing out of position. He's a guy built for the middle, and I think, in the right system, he could be an Urlacher like MLB before he is done.

[dn4192]

So it's pretty obvious we have a MLB controversy on our hands. Angerer is a decent OLB, but let's not sit around and bullcrap ourselves: He's a great middle man. Better than Brackett has been since about 2009.

Therein lies the problem, though... We're financially committed to Brackett. (Like the Hayden deal before it, I thought it was overblown... Gary's been great for us, no doubt. But at that point in his career, that deal we gave him was more than generous.)

So how do we handle this moving forward? Could we shift Brackett outside? But then again, should we? Honestly, in recent memory, Brackett hasn't played any better than Conner has this season. Not saying Conner has been better, but Brackett hasn't been noticeably better than Conner. On the other side, and I NEVER thought I would find myself about to say this, Wheeler () has turned into a pretty decent LB as well, and I think he will only get better from here on out. Time is definitely on his side, whereas not so much for Brackett.

So what do we do?

I don't think trading Brackett would make much sense, I don't think we'd get enough for him to offset the cap penalty we'd have to pay for him, and, I believe, like Hayden, his deal was heavily guaranteed so outright releasing him is just going to eat cap space for a guy who isn't around... But we're obviously in a position that something needs to be done, because, with the way Angerer is playing, returning him to the starting MLB spot next season just wouldn't be right.

You move on, Gary gave us some great years, but with age and injury we have found better players.

[IndySouth]

Keep Pat put, and hope his coverage skills continue to improve. We have enough arm tacklers on this team without Brackett leading the charge. There isn't enough room on an NFL team to have a small, aging, injury recovering MLB making top money.

Brackett is 5' 11'', 235 lbs. Angerer is 6' 0", 235 lbs. I doubt that inch is making a big difference out there. If anything, his vertical skills are better than our other linebackers (based on passes defended and interceptions). Gary is 31. Ray Lewis is 36 and Brian Urlacher is 33. Age isn't that big of a factor as it relates to that position.

[Trips4Lyfe]

Brackett is maybe the best Colts LB I've ever seen ... he is comparable to Ray Lew in that he is actually the heart and soul of our D, especially with Bobby gone. We need a good finish from him to strike a Super bowl from a defensive perspective I think. He may not be as physical or rangy as Pat at this point in his career but I agree he is more complete and is the unquestioned leader regardless of scheme.

[John Waylon]

While his pass defense still isn't anything to write home about (And to be fair, some of that is scheme related. With the Tampa 2, one, or both of the safeties can come over and help him if they are free to do so, so his zone is kind of a no passing zone, which doesn't put him under a ton of fire to defend passes) but I think it's fair to say it IS better than it was last year, and I think it's safe to say that, with time it's only going to get better.

The upside here is huge, IMO.

I don't want to turn this into a Polian debate (I'm over those for the time,) but the Brackett deal is one that is now coming back to bite Polian. (Just like the Sanders and Hayden deal before it) If we can't keep Angerer and/or Conner because we invested too much in an aging MLB that COULD have been replaced is we had been forced into that position, it's just another strike against Polian.

[John Waylon]

You move on, Gary gave us some great years, but with age and injury we have found better players.

Here is the point -> .

You missed it.

We've worked ourselves into a corner, and no matter how we move forward there are negative ramifications. I'm asking how we best minimize those ramifications.

[IndySouth]

You'll get little to no argument from me, or anyone that Gary's pass defense is better than Angerer's. But Angerer is the better LB, sorry to say. Angerer is getting better at his pass coverage and he has a bright future in that middle spot. I was saying last season we were playing out of position. He's a guy built for the middle, and I think, in the right system, he could be an Urlacher like MLB before he is done.

Respectfully disagree. Angerer, in time, may become a great linebacker but he's just "pretty good" right now. He may be improving his coverage skills (news to me) but, given how low he set the bar, that shouldn't be a difficult task. I'll be convinced that he is the future of that position when I see him make tackles before the first down marker is reached and tackles the opposing player from the front and not the back (out of position too much yet). I also need to see an opposing quarterback take note of Pat before dumping it off over the middle. Right now, opposing quarterbacks are giddy when they get that matchup.

[Xfiles]

My two cents is Gary plays outside or moves inside if Pat is injured. Otherwise, he is a liability and he must be cut and resigned cheaper.

[Trips4Lyfe]

but ... Pat probably has even more potential so why not employ a healthy rotation while using that contract to milk Gary's remaining years at a high-level ? That would be up to a COACHING STAFF to make that work anyway ... who knows ?

[John Waylon]

If I am not mistaken, the beef of Brackett's deal was guaranteed meaning there are pretty steep penalties for just offing him, one way or another.

[dn4192]

Here is the point -> .

You missed it.

We've worked ourselves into a corner, and no matter how we move forward there are negative ramifications. I'm asking how we best minimize those ramifications.

Release Gary, look for other possible replacements via the draft and move on. Hope Pat gets better at pass coverage. This is not rocket science, it's pro football. All emotional attachement has to be removed...

[IndySouth]

but ... Pat probably has even more potential so why not employ a healthy rotation while using that contract to milk Gary's remaining years at a high-level ? That would be up to a COACHING STAFF to make that work anyway ... who knows ?

Definitely agree with the upside potential being greater with Angerer. He should continue to improve. Do we risk stunting his growth by forcing him into a rotational role? I don't know. It sounds like it might be the best way to utilize both guys at this position but I'm not convinced that there is one, right answer. John Waylon is right in stating that we've painted ourselves into a corner with regards to this situation. It will interesting to see how it plays out.

Edited November 3, 2011 by IndySouth

[jgstriker]

I was under the impression that the deal was built so that we could cut him after a few years, if we had the replacement, without terrible terrible cap reprucussions.

[oldunclemark]

How do we benefit by releasing Brackett and opening up a hole..?

Why not play Brackett, Angerer and Conner like we did in 2010..

..when Brackett declines...then Angerer moves inside..

Angerer wont be crippled or foolish by playing him outside two more years...and he's the backup in the middle when Brackett is hurt..

No reason to create a depth shortage..

[Balzer40]

I was under the impression that the deal was built so that we could cut him after a few years, if we had the replacement, without terrible terrible cap reprucussions.

Thats what im thinking too. I don't think its much of a cap hit at all if he is released(and I fully expect him to be), in fact, after his surgery I remember the local news saying it was likely to be Bracketts last game in a Colts uniform.

[IndySouth]

Thats what im thinking too. I don't think its much of a cap hit at all if he is released(and I fully expect him to be), in fact, after his surgery I remember the local news saying it was likely to be Bracketts last game in a Colts uniform.

Hard to find anything that specific. This link shows the breakdown but doesn't mention any options built into the contract.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/gary-brackett/

For the record, his cap hit would be $7,400,000 next year. That is a really big number for a linebacker in this system!

[oldunclemark]

Thats what im thinking too. I don't think its much of a cap hit at all if he is released(and I fully expect him to be), in fact, after his surgery I remember the local news saying it was likely to be Bracketts last game in a Colts uniform.

The local news also said that Herman Cain was a presidential front runner

Come on. You guys know how the Colts work.

We keep Brackett in the middle and we move Angerer back outside..

..and we work on our secondary which is a room of empty helmets...

[Balzer40]

Hard to find anything that specific. This link shows the breakdown but doesn't mention any options built into the contract.

http://www.spotrac.c.../gary-brackett/

For the record, his cap hit would be $7,400,000 next year. That is a really big number for a linebacker in this system!

All the more reason why I don't think he'll be back. From what I gather, it looks like they save 5 mil. by cutting him.

[IndySouth]

Hard to find anything that specific. This link shows the breakdown but doesn't mention any options built into the contract.

http://www.spotrac.c.../gary-brackett/

For the record, his cap hit would be $7,400,000 next year. That is a really big number for a linebacker in this system!

I do know that he received a $12 million signing bonus. Signing bonuses are amortized over the length of the contract. In this example, that would be 5 years. $12 million/5 = $2.4 million per year. If you cut a player prior to fully amortizing that bonus, the remaining amount is immediately counted against the cap. In this case, cutting Gary at the end of the season would still cause us to realize a $7.2 million cap hit for 2012 ($2.4 million x 3 remaining years). That's only $200,000 less than keeping him. I would bet that they keep him on through next season and cut him afterward. In 2013, he would cost us $9 million to keep and only $4.8 million to release. That's a $4.2 million difference!

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

[oldunclemark]

Did anyone feel Angerer was subpar OLB...or that Bracket waqs a sub-par ILB

Then forget the money for next year....

I dont care about what's best for him.. What's best for us is to play them both..

With the Manning situation..we're not rebuidling.we're playing for now..

We have other draft and free agent needs..

[#1 Colts Fan]

Split the reps the best we can to keep both of them fresh.

[chad72]

Brackett could use his experience and instincts to break on the ball in pass coverage even if the DC asked him to be 15 yards off the LOS, he may change it at the last moment to 10 yards and adjust. Angerer has not reached that point and goes by the book and just does what the DC tells him to.

I have always wondered - if an MLB assignment is to play 15 yards off the LOS and he cheats at the last moment to 10 yards based on his instincts and what he sees, is that characterized as not doing his assignment or insubordination? Just curious.

How much leeway do the young defensive players have to use their instincts to not stick by the book with the assignments?

Edited November 3, 2011 by chad72

[Xfiles]

Is Gary fast enough to play Safety? LOL we always break about 6 of those every season.

[husker61]

Respectfully disagree. Angerer, in time, may become a great linebacker but he's just "pretty good" right now. He may be improving his coverage skills (news to me) but, given how low he set the bar, that shouldn't be a difficult task. I'll be convinced that he is the future of that position when I see him make tackles before the first down marker is reached and tackles the opposing player from the front and not the back (out of position too much yet). I also need to see an opposing quarterback take note of Pat before dumping it off over the middle. Right now, opposing quarterbacks are giddy when they get that matchup.

i completely agree!

putting him in the ray lewi and urlacher category is just ridiculous.

no team is game planning around angerer like you would a truly great lb.

[mammo]

well if pat gets better pass coverage wise, can use them both have a bit of a rotation going, fresh mike all day

[IndyTrav]

Brackett is 5' 11'', 235 lbs. Angerer is 6' 0", 235 lbs. I doubt that inch is making a big difference out there. If anything, his vertical skills are better than our other linebackers (based on passes defended and interceptions). Gary is 31. Ray Lewis is 36 and Brian Urlacher is 33. Age isn't that big of a factor as it relates to that position.

Who said anything about 1"inch? I didn't say Angerer was big.

And be careful in your comparisons. It irks me when people have a discussion and instantly bring up HOF players. That's great that the two best LBs of this gen have played past 32. What's that got to do with Brackett?

[Ramblinwreck7]

We need to restructure Gary Bracket's contract and let him play WLB instead of Kavel Conner. We need a big boost in pass coverage from WLB. I didn't like Angerer at all at OLB but he seem like a pretty good MLB to me. I'd keep Wheeler at SLB, I've always liked him, even if I was the only colts fan to do so. The starters would be Wheeler, Angerer, and Bracket. That sounds like a good group to me with quality backups in Conner and Ernie Sims if we resign him.

[IndySouth]

Who said anything about 1"inch? I didn't say Angerer was big.

And be careful in your comparisons. It irks me when people have a discussion and instantly bring up HOF players. That's great that the two best LBs of this gen have played past 32. What's that got to do with Brackett?

You didn't say Angerer was big but made it clear that you thought Brackett was small. You also appeared to be using Brackett's lack of height to justify starting Angerer over him.

Next, I was not comparing Brackett to Lewis or Urlacher. They were prominent names at the position that have enjoyed extended longevity. Thus, it illustrated my point that older linebackers can and do compete well in this league.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Merril hoge said that gary brackett is to the defense what peyton is to the offense,that was about 2 weeks ago.I tend to agree, gary is solid and i think he was pretty good in coverage.

[mammo]

yeh, basically losing captions on both sides of los is what the colts are going through, after all the seasons of it being that way. i guess bethea should be making adjustments on the field, but cant get the lb's to be the way they would if gary was in there

[Andy]

OP -- I would like to see Pat become the MIKE, Conner become the new SAM, and the Colts don't resign Ernie Sims (even though I love him), and they move Gary to WILL. It would make our linebacking core very good.

[IndySouth]

OP -- I would like to see Pat become the MIKE, Conner become the new SAM, and the Colts don't resign Ernie Sims (even though I love him), and they move Gary to WILL. It would make our linebacking core very good.

The MLB is supposed to be the "QB" of the defense. Wouldn't you prefer to have a veteran lead from that spot than a youngster? Gary's abilities haven't declined to a level beneath Pat's (in my opinion) so I don't understand the overwhelming desire many have to move or cut Brackett. With Gary's cap hit next season, we're better off keeping him than cutting him (as I've noted above). The following season, however, his cap hit might outweigh his value. Why not keep him at MIKE for his final season to complete the process of mentoring Pat? Move Angerer to WILL/backup MIKE and have him watch and learn on the job. I think we'd get the most out of both players by doing it this way.

[jtrester]

Use them both!! Give them rest, then we don't have the injury issues that we have now. Rotate them.

[JoKeR]

We may not agree on painter but i definitely agree with keeping pat in the middle... contrast to what most ppl believe on here pat is a much better coverage LB than brackett.

If he's better in pass coverage than Gary, then why hasn't it translated to the NFL?

I like Angerer but I fear he's 1 dimensional. Gary is more 2 dimensional but he's in the twilight of his career and doesn't tackle as well.

I have a head ache now.

[johnwaynes44]

Why get a new d-coordinator and switch to a 3-4 and use both Angerer and Brackett as MLB's. Aren't we all ready for a new defensive sceme?