Marvin Harrison nor Tony Dungy elected to HOF class of 2014 [Merge]

[ricker182]

Andre Reed's best year: 1,312 yards, 88 catches, 9 TD. Harrison's WORST year from 1999-2007: 82 catches, 1113 yards, 12 TD.

[pacolts56]

My main issue is more with the voting process itself.

 

I've always felt that these HOF selection committees, made up of pudgy, nerdy journalists....whose closest encounter with a jock strap was when a soiled smelly one was rubbed in their faces in high school gym class because they sucked at sports....is what causes results like these.

 

That committee should include at least 50% ex-players and coaches who were contemporaries and opponents of the nominees. In other words....people who LIVED the game.

 

[MAC]

Perhaps Harrison is held back by the fact that he played with the greatest QB of all time - you know, the face of the NFL who won four MVPs in Indy. Of course that doesn't fit in with the "nobody likes us" argument.

 

I think that Marv deserved to get in on the first ballot, but the last I heard WRs weren't getting in at all. The fact that they are starting to is a good thing, but maybe they still don't want to do it on the first ballot.

 

Harrison will have his day.

[ricker182]

Perhaps Harrison is held back by the fact that he played with the greatest QB of all time - you know, the face of the NFL who won four MVPs in Indy. Of course that doesn't fit in with the "nobody likes us" argument.

I think that Marv deserved to get in on the first ballot, but the last I heard WRs weren't getting in at all. The fact that they are starting to is a good thing, but maybe they still don't want to do it on the first ballot.

Harrison will have his day.

Well the main argument is was Chris Carter more deserving than Andre Reed last year?

[MAC]

My main issue is more with the voting process itself.

 

I've always felt that these HOF selection committees, made up of pudgy, nerdy journalists....whose closest encounter with a jock strap was when a soiled smelly one was rubbed in their faces in high school gym class because they sucked at sports....is what causes results like these.

 

That committee should include at least 50% ex-players and coaches who were contemporaries and opponents of the nominees. In other words....people who LIVED the game.

 

We may disagree with the vote, but the inequities aren't "due" to your unpleasant characterization. If you were correct then nobody would EVER be elected, because the logical extension of your argument would be that all journalists hate jocks and don't want them to succeed. In actuality those are people whose lives revolve around observing and reporting about sports. I would assume that they tend to take it very seriously. They also provide a service without which sports wouldn't exist as we know it. Do you like listening to most former players attempt to express themself?

 

Ex athletes certainly know more about certain things, but it's also abundantly clear that they are virtually always biased to an irrational degree towards their former teams, teammates, positions, side of the ball, conference, college, college conference, home state, you name it. Plus remember Brady's comments? Players are too busy worrying about themselves (or when retired, competing vigerously in golf, bowling, tiddlywinks or anything else that catches their fancy) to invest the time in fairly appraising others. The entire point of awards such as this that journalists represent US.

[IndyTrav]

All this hate against Reed is ridiculous. 

 

Upon his retirement, he was 3rd in rec, 7th TDs, and 5th in yards.....and its such a travesty that he got in??!? All of Marvins accomplishments came from Reed.....Not to mention the guy was $ in the playoffs (Marvin was a scrub). 

 

 

Marvin will have his day. But I've said ad nausem for nearly 4 years Marvin wouldn't be first ballot. I don't know that Marvin gets in over Brown next year....Its looking prime for Marvin to be in the 2016 class.....Pace/Seau/Warner are available for the 2015 class, so I figure Brown/Pace/Seau/Warner/Haley.....2016 is probably the year for Colts, with Dungy/Harrison, then Favre/TO.  

[pacolts56]

We may disagree with the vote, but the inequities aren't "due" to your unpleasant characterization. If you were correct then nobody would EVER be elected, because the logical extension of your argument would be that all journalists hate jocks and don't want them to succeed. In actuality those are people whose lives revolve around observing and reporting about sports. I would assume that they tend to take it very seriously. They also provide a service without which sports wouldn't exist as we know it. Do you like listening to most former players attempt to express themself?

 

Ex athletes certainly know more about certain things, but it's also abundantly clear that they are virtually always biased to an irrational degree towards their former teams, teammates, positions, side of the ball, conference, college, college conference, home state, you name it. Plus remember Brady's comments? Players are too busy worrying about themselves (or when retired, competing vigerously in golf, bowling, tiddlywinks or anything else that catches their fancy) to invest the time in fairly appraising others. The entire point of awards such as this that journalists represent US.

Jeeez MAC....laugh a little.

 

I know you've read enough of my posts to know that I like to overemphasize a point with an occasional dose of cynical humor.

 

My entire point is that having 100% of the voting done by these shining beacons of unbiased journalistic integrity (is that better?) rather than have a split of players and coaches involved doesn't always do the nominees justice, and this year it was glaring.

 

Call me crazy....but Marvin Harrison and Indiana paranoia aside, I would think that former players and coaches in general might have a greater appreciation for Charles Haley's 5 Super Bowl rings and 5 Pro Bowls.

[T Y Goodbye]

Looks like Ray Guy got in! Glad to see it - about freaking time. First punter ever, and he was special.

 

 

I agree about Reed and Dungy. While I'm very disappointed about Marv, it happens all the time. I'm confident that he will get in eventually.  Reed getting in actually encourages that thought. Worst case scenario I suspect that he would get "swept in" with Peyton when he is elected.

 

Why would not "officially retiring" have an impact?

 

I don't know. I believe that you have to sign some sort of retirement papers, to "Officially" be retired. From what I understood, he never completed the forms. I know he has been out for the required time, but knowing the way some of the voters think and act, along with the alleged involvement of a gun and the murder could very well have affected him not getting first ballot.

 

In defense of my point, look at Peyton not getting unanimous MVP this year, with I believe 1 vote for Brady by Jim Miller. a QB that never really was anything, who was suspended for violating the leagues substance abuse policy, who got a Super Bowl ring as Brady's backup in 2004. Voters will find any little thing to make their case, even with something absurd as not signing his retirement papers. It probably wasn't a factor, but with these goofy voters and their sometimes asinine reasoning, anything is possible. Therefore, that is why I added that little tidbit about Marvin, obscure as it is.

 

I really appreciate the way you nitpick every little detail in your responses to people's posts. It really makes me have to think about every word I type, or every thought I might have. I'll just have to remember to be more careful in my wording from now on. Thank you.

[Gavin]

I think Greene deserved it more then Strahan

[Poster X]

I think Greene deserved it more then Strahan

One thing about Greene is that much like Lawrence Taylor he was a linebacker, and to put up the third most sacks at 160... or so was impressive. Strahan had around 15 less. They should both be there.

[Bluefire4]

They always make the wide receivers wait. But Marvin deserves to get in next year.

[MAC]

Jeeez MAC....laugh a little.

 

I know you've read enough of my posts to know that I like to overemphasize a point with an occasional dose of cynical humor.

 

My entire point is that having 100% of the voting done by these shining beacons of unbiased journalistic integrity (is that better?) rather than have a split of players and coaches involved doesn't always do the nominees justice, and this year it was glaring.

 

Call me crazy....but Marvin Harrison and Indiana paranoia aside, I would think that former players and coaches in general might have a greater appreciation for Charles Haley's 5 Super Bowl rings and 5 Pro Bowls.

Sorry :slaphead: you can probably deduce that I'm far closer on the spectrum of life to being a journalist than an athlete. We may live in an era where "journalists" are often opinionated 20 year olds with no writing ability, but I still like to pretend that it's an admirable field of endeavor.

 

Perhaps more importantly, while I've never been abused in the fashion you describe, and while I've fawned over pro athletes my entire life, I've successfully deluded myself into avoiding making the connection between the pro stars that I relish rooting for and the often detestable neanderthals from high school. I'm sure that at some point the former were also the later, but if I thought about it too much I'd probably stop being a sports fan. Your post pushed a button.

 

Haley? I was sick of the 49ers by about 1984 and rooted against them in every SB. The fact that he then moved on to a team I actively detested didn't help. Both teams were loaded on both sides of the ball. I heard his name a zillion times but never quite "got" the enthusiasm for him. For some reason I remember him as a specialist with the 49ers  - not in the same league as the likes of Lawrence Taylor or Mike Singletary. Perhaps he was more important to the Cowboys but it was physically painful to even watch them so perhaps I've blocked it  from my memory. Perhaps he deserved to get in  - I certainly didn't see enough - but I'm not going to get upset about his absence.

 

However if Marvin isn't in after a comparable period of time I'll be picketing the league office. :stats: :cuss:

[MAC]

I really appreciate the way you nitpick every little detail in your responses to people's posts. It really makes me have to think about every word I type, or every thought I might have. I'll just have to remember to be more careful in my wording from now on. Thank you.

You're welcome ................... I think.

 

Strangely my wife doesn't "appreciate" my attention to detail with the same enthusiasm.

[Le Neon]

All this hate against Reed is ridiculous.

Upon his retirement, he was 3rd in rec, 7th TDs, and 5th in yards.....and its such a travesty that he got in??!? All of Marvins accomplishments came from Reed.....Not to mention the guy was $ in the playoffs (Marvin was a scrub).

Marvin will have his day. But I've said ad nausem for nearly 4 years Marvin wouldn't be first ballot. I don't know that Marvin gets in over Brown next year....Its looking prime for Marvin to be in the 2016 class.....Pace/Seau/Warner are available for the 2015 class, so I figure Brown/Pace/Seau/Warner/Haley.....2016 is probably the year for Colts, with Dungy/Harrison, then Favre/TO.

I don't think it's hate. He seemed like the third best candidate by a pretty good margin and he got pushed to the front of the line.

Politics and shenanigans seem likely, but I'm eager to see what the voters write about this.

[RomanianColtsFan]

Huge blunder by the voters. Who is more "famous", Reed or Harrison? I would say Marvin Harrison. He is number 2 receiver of all time. He's got way more TDs in a lot fewer games than Reed. It's head-to-head comparison that matters. Reed should never get in the Hall of Fame if there is a more deserving WR in the same class.

[LordHelpOurColts]

Welcome to Art Monk's world, Marvin. (yes, I know Monk is in...but it took forever)

[Yehoodi]

Coach Dungy should get in the HOF someday I think . . . I think the voters may not wanted to make him a first ballot HOF though . . . I look at Coach Dungy's resume to not that different than Coach Madden, altho he had to wait over a decade, but rings were more important back then and why it was a long time for Madden to get in . . .

 

my guess is that the voters did not want to let him in right out of the gate as Madden had to wait a long time to get in . . .

 

As for Marvin Harrison, again they may not wanted to make him a first ballot either . . . and with the log jammed at WR, they may have felt it was time to put Reed in the HOF and there will be time down the road for Marvin . . . my two cents

[chad72]

Coach Dungy should get in the HOF someday I think . . . I think the voters may not wanted to make him a first ballot HOF though . . . I look at Coach Dungy's resume to not that different than Coach Madden, altho he had to wait over a decade, but rings were more important back then and why it was a long time for Madden to get in . . .

 

my guess is that the voters did not want to let him in right out of the gate as Madden had to wait a long time to get in . . .

 

As for Marvin Harrison, again they may not wanted to make him a first ballot either . . . and with the log jammed at WR, they may have felt it was time to put Reed in the HOF and there will be time down the road for Marvin . . . my two cents

 

Yeah, it is all about precedent that has been set for coaches with Dungy's credentials and WRs with Marvin's credentials.

 

Tell me this, did Michael Irvin make it first ballot? If he did, it is a travesty that Marvin did not. If Irvin had to wait, much like the other WRs, then I can see some level of fairness though not much.

[Yehoodi]

Yeah, it is all about precedent that has been set for coaches with Dungy's credentials and WRs with Marvin's credentials.

 

Tell me this, did Michael Irvin make it first ballot? If he did, it is a travesty that Marvin did not. If Irvin had to wait, much like the other WRs, then I can see some level of fairness though not much.

 

I did a little search and found that he was not . . . so not so bad . . .

 

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/Eligibility.aspx

 

I do think that Marvin might suffer a little from being on a team with Peyton most of his career . . .

 

My best guess is that it might of been a slightly political one in that they did not want to have two WRs go in and wanted to get Reed it before it is too late . . . Marvin should get in sometime in the future . . .

 

Also too, maybe they just want to save the "1st Ballot HOFs" for special cases and in taking a look at the attached list it looks like, since the 1970s when all of the great pre-Merger players were coming in, there are only three WRs that were first ballot: Paul Warfield (great WR, '72 fins), Steve Largent (broke Don Huston decades long TD record), and of coarse Jerry Rice . . . so some what of elite company that might be saved for only special WRs . . . my guess is that they thought that Marvin has not separate himself from his contemporaries, Moss, Carter, and so on . . . to be in the elite class . . .  

[jvan1973]

Coach Dungy should get in the HOF someday I think . . . I think the voters may not wanted to make him a first ballot HOF though . . . I look at Coach Dungy's resume to not that different than Coach Madden, altho he had to wait over a decade, but rings were more important back then and why it was a long time for Madden to get in . . .

my guess is that the voters did not want to let him in right out of the gate as Madden had to wait a long time to get in . . .

As for Marvin Harrison, again they may not wanted to make him a first ballot either . . . and with the log jammed at WR, they may have felt it was time to put Reed in the HOF and there will be time down the road for Marvin . . . my two cents

Tim Brown probably gets in next year, then Marvin the following year

[Yehoodi]

Tim Brown probably gets in next year, then Marvin the following year

 

yes I hear ya . . . not sure how many great WR are in the queue and the voters figured there is time to get Marvin in . . .

[Moose Of Woe]

Dungy didn't deserve it, but #88 sure as heck did.

 

Top 10 WR to ever play. Easily. Regardless of Peyton.

[jvan1973]

yes I hear ya . . . not sure how many great WR are in the queue and the voters figured there is time to get Marvin in . . .

if brown gets in next year, the log Jam its essentially over.

[Blue Horseshoe]

This was completely predicable.  Both will be elected in due time but neither was 1st ballot worthy in my opinion.  

It was very nice to see Ray Guy finally get the honor he deserves.  I was surprised to see Strahan make it on his first ballot.

[Yehoodi]

if brown gets in next year, the log Jam its essentially over.

 

well that is good for Marvin, other than Moss I can't either think of another great one getting in for 5 years or so or more  . . . this gives the voters a few years to sprinkle a non WR year which will be good . . .

[New Zealands #1 Colts Fan]

If Marvin doesnt make it next year then we can be mad

[Synthetic]

Congrats to Andre Reed, one of my favorite players growing up.

 

Tim Brown was snubbed too, so don't act like it just happened to you.

[ricker182]

This was completely predicable. Both will be elected in due time but neither was 1st ballot worthy in my opinion.

It was very nice to see Ray Guy finally get the honor he deserves. I was surprised to see Strahan make it on his first ballot.

Marvin is definitely 1st ballot worthy. It's ridiculous he didn't get in. Dungy on the other hand can wait.

[Andy]

I love Harrison and Dungy. Dungy I wasn't expecting to get in, but Harrison I thought was a pretty good bet.

 

Nevertheless, I can't say that any of those inductees are not deserving. All are great players who deserve to be in there. There's no doubt in my mind Marvin will be there next year, and Tony (probably) as well.

[Narcosys]

 I would assume that they tend to take it very seriously.

 

Jim Miller....Nuff said.

[IndyTrav]

I don't think it's hate. He seemed like the third best candidate by a pretty good margin and he got pushed to the front of the line.

Politics and shenanigans seem likely, but I'm eager to see what the voters write about this.

 

3rd best is arguable. Again, every 'record' Marvin has, he got from Reed. You cant say Marvin should be in, when the exact same guy as Marvin had waited for nearly a decade. 

 

 

if brown gets in next year, the log Jam its essentially over.

 

This is when it gets tricky. I think with Reed now in, both Holt and Bruce are strong candidates (not first ballot by any means). Then TO, and Hines Ward, and then finally Moss. Throw in Tony G as well the following year...Those are just recieving options....Guys like LT, Farve, Warner, Seau, Taylor, Faneca, Maewa, Edge, Dawkins will all be coming out and all. Added to the list of players/coaches already waiting. ...

 

2015: Pace/Seau/Warner I feel are locks to be first ballot....So now there are 2 spots left in this class...

2016: Farve/TO are locks to be first ballot.....3 spots left. 

2017: LT is a lock, and maybe Taylor....so 3 spots left.

2018: Lewis/Moss are locks.....3 spots left.

 

so in the next 5 years, we have roughly 12 spots to fill.....Greene/Haley/Brown are getting in before Marvin....So now 9spots are available in the next 5 years....Marvin could, and should make it in 2017, maybe 2018....

[Blue Horseshoe]

Do you think this could hurt Harrison in being elected to the Hall of Fame?

 

[MAC]

Jim Miller....Nuff said.

Actually, the crux of PAs semi-serious point was that he thinks former players would be better suited to be voters, and I responded to defend the field of journalism.

 

What wasn't evident to either of us at the time (since we were talking about the HOF and I had no knowledge of the MVP voting) was that Jim Miller IS a former player. The entire basis of his bias is that he "won" a SB ring with the Patriots as Brady's backup. Miller's absurd response actually perfectly makes my point for me.

 

WHY he was allowed a vote and whether he will be allowed to vote again will be interesting to learn/observe - but he isn't remotely to be confused with a journalist.

 

I grew up occasionally thinking that I wanted to be the next Red Smith or Arthur Daley. Please don't confuse the likes of Jim Miller with either.