House Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 5 seconds is an eternity. The average QB gets the ball out in 2.6 seconds.Not talking about in the Pocket Dusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOTT Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Meh, at times he does, but that is way down on this list of things to be concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Not talking about in the Pocket Dusty.What do you mean then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 What do you mean then?I'm talking start of the play till break down of the play. I'm talking about from the second the center moves. Till the time Luck gets the ball, varying on shotgun player obviously. To where he secures it and starts making his reads. Not 5 seconds with the ball surveying the field. I would estimate he has about 2 seconds with the ball to make his reads. And this is which a chaotic pocket. Not a clean one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaoBerry Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 I'm talking start of the play till break down of the play.I'm talking about from the second the center moves. Till the time Luck gets the ball, varying on shotgun player obviously. To where he secures it and starts making his reads. Not 5 seconds with the ball surveying the field. I would estimate he has about 2 seconds with the ball to make his reads. And this is which a chaotic pocket. Not a clean one. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Dustin is right, the average QB has roughly 3 seconds...thats it. Not even a H.O.F. line could give you 5 or more seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I saw him make a few bad passes with a clean pocket. I saw him under pressure instantly often. I saw WR's run bad routes and drop passes. It's a bad offense right now, not just a QB waiting too long to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I'm talking start of the play till break down of the play. I'm talking about from the second the center moves. Till the time Luck gets the ball, varying on shotgun player obviously. To where he secures it and starts making his reads. Not 5 seconds with the ball surveying the field. I would estimate he has about 2 seconds with the ball to make his reads. And this is which a chaotic pocket. Not a clean one. 5 seconds even in that scenario is still extremely long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Andrew was pretty bad today. I know the line was a factor in that but he was also making his fair share of his own mistakes. With that said that bootleg was a thing of beauty, although we really need to bring someone over from the Indians to work with him on sliding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 5 seconds even in that scenario is still extremely long.Eh then I'm wrong then. It's a short amount of time. That work better lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indygal1218 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Saying he holds the ball too long simplifies the situation too much. I'm sure he probably is on occasion. But is the o line even giving him two seconds? What play was he given? Are all his targets deep routes? Does he have time to get through his progressions? Are any of his receivers open? Are any breaking off their routes when he's in trouble? Did any gain separation? Does the open receiver grab the ball when it hits his hands or bounces off his chest pads?Lots of stuff happening out there. I can't lay it all on his lap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Saying he holds the ball too long simplifies the situation too much. I'm sure he probably is on occasion. But is the o line even giving him two seconds? What play was he given? Are all his targets deep routes? Does he have time to get through his progressions? Are any of his receivers open? Are any breaking off their routes when he's in trouble? Did any gain separation? Does the open receiver grab the ball when it hits his hands or bounces off his chest pads?Lots of stuff happening out there. I can't lay it all on his lap.There have been times where the o-line just crumbles before he can do anything but a lot of time he does create his own pressure by just holding it too long. Now what we can't see and as you pointed out, is probably the real reason he's holding it so long. His guys just aren't getting open. This team misses Reggie and they miss him badly. I would still like to see more quick slants and screens plays that are designed for the ball to come out quick before the defense can really pick up a receiver and before the pressure can get there to hit him. That or call more bootlegs to get him on the move where he can run if no one is open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdcolt Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 One of Andrews problems is that he has the slowest arm speed on his delivery I've ever seen. Too deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtJ82 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Hopefully Rogers can be our x-factor that could push us through the playoffs like Sanders did in 2006.That is a lot put on the shoulders of a rookie. It takes time for receivers to develop.....generally, even the ones drafted very high. He may show flashes, but I doubt he would be ready to carry an offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluboy Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Totally disagree. Kid has ZERO time to hold the ball too long. He has to step up or leave the pocket all together within 2.5 seconds on every snap. Saying he holds the ball too long, imply's he actually has time to make his reads, and decides to hold it instead. For the record, that absolutely never happens. Peyton would be rid of the ball sooner than that. Luck has always been slow getting rid of the ball. He is a tremendous young talent but that is the one serious flaw in his game. I am not sure ANY offensive line could protect him from taking a beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Peyton would be rid of the ball sooner than that. Luck has always been slow getting rid of the ball. He is a tremendous young talent but that is the one serious flaw in his game. I am not sure ANY offensive line could protect him from taking a beating.You are a tenacious one huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin County Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Peyton would be rid of the ball sooner than that. Luck has always been slow getting rid of the ball. He is a tremendous young talent but that is the one serious flaw in his game. I am not sure ANY offensive line could protect him from taking a beating.Hey Olblue, Peyton don't work here anymore. The peyton threads are that way> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restored Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Peyton would be rid of the ball sooner than that. Luck has always been slow getting rid of the ball. He is a tremendous young talent but that is the one serious flaw in his game. I am not sure ANY offensive line could protect him from taking a beating.This is a myth. Luck has one of the quickest releases in the league. When you have recievers who get no separation and an oline that gives you no time on pretty much every down, it leaves little room for error as a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restored Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 There have been times where the o-line just crumbles before he can do anything but a lot of time he does create his own pressure by just holding it too long. Now what we can't see and as you pointed out, is probably the real reason he's holding it so long. His guys just aren't getting open. This team misses Reggie and they miss him badly.I would still like to see more quick slants and screens plays that are designed for the ball to come out quick before the defense can really pick up a receiver and before the pressure can get there to hit him. That or call more bootlegs to get him on the move where he can run if no one is open.Double post but you can't run slants if these guys aren't getting open or can't catch the ball. I do however agree on more bootlegs, will help in terms of the direct pressure Luck gets on a down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Double post but you can't run slants if these guys aren't getting open or can't catch the ball. I do however agree on more bootlegs, will help in terms of the direct pressure Luck gets on a down.I agree, separation is part of the problem and maybe that's why we aren't seeing more slants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smittywerb Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 That is a lot put on the shoulders of a rookie. It takes time for receivers to develop.....generally, even the ones drafted very high. He may show flashes, but I doubt he would be ready to carry an offense. At this point, flashes would do a whole lot more than having DHB out there. I'm not expecting him to become Randy Moss in the playoffs, but if he becomes at least a potential threat then that would be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtJ82 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 At this point, flashes would do a whole lot more than having DHB out there. I'm not expecting him to become Randy Moss in the playoffs, but if he becomes at least a potential threat then that would be enough.Drawing that pass interference was more than DHB did today. Rogers looks like a beast and easily had his man beat. Can't wait until Luck gains confidence in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Drawing that pass interference was more than DHB did today. Rogers looks like a beast and easily had his man beat. Can't wait until Luck gains confidence in him.Hey you know how much work it takes to drop a wide open pass like that? You have to work at being that bad! Just thank goodness Manning is gone, "Gosh Darn It Donald!" would have been blown off the internet if he was still there. In fairness DHB did have one nice catch today the problem was it was his only catch on five targets. I was over him after the Texans game and still am. I am so sick of watching him not catch a pass and turn to the ref and go flag flag. Split his reps between Brazil and Rogers and use him only in an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtJ82 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Hey you know how much work it takes to drop a wide open pass like that? You have to work at being that bad! Just thank goodness Manning is gone, "Gosh Darn It Donald!" would have been blown off the internet if he was still there. In fairness DHB did have one nice catch today the problem was it was his only catch on five targets. I was over him after the Texans game and still am. I am so sick of watching him not catch a pass and turn to the ref and go flag flag. Split his reps between Brazil and Rogers and use him only in an emergency.Lol, he does ask for a flag after every drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smittywerb Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Drawing that pass interference was more than DHB did today. Rogers looks like a beast and easily had his man beat. Can't wait until Luck gains confidence in him. Yeah, I don't know what the coaches are thinking. I guess he has to pay his dues like everyone else. Right now he is considered the 4th WR on the depth chart and he has to work his way up. I have no problem with that. I just hope he works his way up quickly. The more he works his way up, the more it will do for his maturity. Make him work for it, that way he won't slack on the field because he knows how hard it was to get there and how easy it will be to lose it. People like to rag on Chuck, but he knows what he's doing with Da'Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harden Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Luck does hang onto the ball to long, There are multiple reasons for this and not just narrowed down to 1 1.If Corners so much as lay a hand on our wr's none of them (except Da'Rick Rodgers) has the ability to consistently get separation 2.Andrew tends to stare down his target to long on a per game basis 3.Luck looks to want to push the ball downfield in one long play ALOT causing him to lock onto that 1 deep wr at the expense of missing someone wide open underneath (He is wavering a bit on this back and forth, sometimes I think he is getting better and other times he proves me wrong about him getting better)...That goes hand in hand with #2 4.We are playing without an interior O Line period, Thornton has no business being on the field his first year in the league and its easy to see, Cant recognize simple stunts (he almost averages getting beat by 1 per game im sure if I went back to every game he started)....Satele......Mcglynn........yeah moving on now All of that has created this mess.........Through it all we are 8 and 4......Ill take it with the expectation that upgrades will be coming next year to get rid of some of the dead weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm43sports Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Our division is almost locked up, so now is the time to try some different looks out and see if rogers (basically all of our young guys on offense) can fly or not. We should use him like the browns use gordon.I don't believe Rogers will ever be as good as Gordon. Gordon has an extra gear he can hit and is a ridiculously talented individual no disrespect to Rogers. Gordon hadn't played in two years I believe plus had known abuse issues and yet was selected with the equivalent of a 2nd while Rogers went undrafted and was cut by the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I don't believe Rogers will ever be as good as Gordon. Gordon has an extra gear he can hit and is a ridiculously talented individual no disrespect to Rogers. Gordon hadn't played in two years I believe plus had known abuse issues and yet was selected with the equivalent of a 2nd while Rogers went undrafted and was cut by the Bills.That had nothing to do with with talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm43sports Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 That had nothing to do with with talentThe game is as much mental and emotional as it is physical. Currently Josh Gordon is on another planet. I bet everyone would've been ok with trading the 2nd for him if they knew this would happen. Back to back 200 yard games? That's insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esmort Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 The game is as much mental and emotional as it is physical. Currently Josh Gordon is on another planet. I bet everyone would've been ok with trading the 2nd for him if they knew this would happen. Back to back 200 yard games? That's insane. I agree about the mental/emotional aspect ... I believe this is the main part he is working on right now ... Everything else being equal I think that Rogers is every bit as talented as Gordon. Whether he can get his other issues fixed and reach that level is a completely different story. I think a lot of people still would be concerned about trading a 2nd knowing how easy he could be suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm43sports Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I agree about the mental/emotional aspect ... I believe this is the main part he is working on right now ... Everything else being equal I think that Rogers is every bit as talented as Gordon. Whether he can get his other issues fixed and reach that level is a completely different story. I think a lot of people still would be concerned about trading a 2nd knowing how easy he could be suspended.He could still be suspended of course and im not denying that Rogers has some talent but Gordon is just dominating games at the moment. The Colts have been having trouble moving the ball and receivers are having trouble separating. Gordon just compiled 267 yards on only 10 targets after going over 200 yards on 14 targets last week. Instead we continue to see DHB separate only to watch the nail him in the shoulder pads before failing to the ground. Gordon could've really opened the offense up because lately Hilton hasn't been getting enough production. Pretty much the only positive about Wayne being out is that Fleener has seemed to step up and I notice him more now which is good considering what a matchup nightmare he could be. The Colts need someone to take Reggie's spot whether its by free agency (Nicks, Britt, Maclin), trade (Alshon Jeffery, Josh Gordon) or draft (Ty Montgomery or Amari Cooper next year). I'll be really upset if we use our 2nd on a receiver when we could have had Gordon this whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I am not sure if the Browns seriously thought about trading Gordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esmort Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I am not sure if the Browns seriously thought about trading Gordan. I think they were very serious, but the Richardson trade kept us from pulling the trigger. I think they probably wanted a 2 + ?, but we did not want to basically trade away the entire upcoming draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I think they were very serious, but the Richardson trade kept us from pulling the trigger. I think they probably wanted a 2 + ?, but we did not want to basically trade away the entire upcoming draft.maybe but I don't know I think they felt they had a bust in T-Rich but I think Gordan rumors were just that Rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colts8718 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Until GRIGSON gets some Oline help Luck will be running for his life its really ugly to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 The game is as much mental and emotional as it is physical. Currently Josh Gordon is on another planet. I bet everyone would've been ok with trading the 2nd for him if they knew this would happen. Back to back 200 yard games? That's insane.of course its as much...and more mental and emotional, Yeah I would have been alright at the time trading our 2nd for him, Still I like Jordan Matthews ALOT, Wish he would fall to the late second but that wont happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluboy Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 This is a myth. Luck has one of the quickest releases in the league. When you have recievers who get no separation and an oline that gives you no time on pretty much every down, it leaves little room for error as a QB. It is no myth. It is a fact. I don't think anyone has questioned his release but just how long he takes to do it and how rarely he looks to his secondary receivers. Time Peyton Manning and then time Luck. The difference is very significant. Now, I don't think it is a permanent problem. As you say, his release is fine. He just needs to make faster decisions and get rid of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluboy Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Hey Olblue, Peyton don't work here anymore. The peyton threads are that way> Just an example. Use Rogers, Brees or any of the top QBs for comparison. Luck is slow to pick out secondary targets. His release is fine. He just doesn't make those decisions quick enough. He will learn to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin County Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Just an example. Use Rogers, Brees or any of the top QBs for comparison. Luck is slow to pick out secondary targets. His release is fine. He just doesn't make those decisions quick enough. He will learn to do that.Yes it was just a comparison, but you will bring up Peyton and put down Luck every chance you get. Same as Polian and Grigson. You changed user names but your still the same bitter OlBlue it just keeps coming out in all your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaoBerry Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 I don't believe Rogers will ever be as good as Gordon. Gordon has an extra gear he can hit and is a ridiculously talented individual no disrespect to Rogers. Gordon hadn't played in two years I believe plus had known abuse issues and yet was selected with the equivalent of a 2nd while Rogers went undrafted and was cut by the Bills. Are you aware of how highly rogers was scouted? He was a 5 star recruit, while gordon was a 3 star. He's bigger, stronger and faster than josh. If he decides to ball, then WATCH OUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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