Luck Era vs Manning Era

[Qwiz]

Not that it matters. But this forum would be a much better place if Peyton and Brady retired and went away into obscurity, lol

No, because then it would be  " Brady will get to the Hall of Fame first!" or " The media talks about Manning more, he cemented his legacy with that last SB win while Brady didn't win since his third one!"  There will always be debates to be had with those two lol.

[House]

So basically you're all excuse makers...lol.

Find me one sporting team that isn't full of excuse makers. And I'll show you a fake sporting team lol.

[Jules]

A valid question Jules & it deserves an answer. Here's mine: Championship pedigree, or in Peyton's case, the press he constantly receives, the money/lucrative endorsements he gets paid, the belief among NFL analysts that #18 is the most cerebral QB in professional football with a robot for a brain means that at a bare minimum 2 SB Championships are in order. There I said it. 

 

Yes, choking or falling short in the Playoffs doesn't help. Playoff favorites are supposed to win Playoff games not crash & burn. Okay, the game against the Ravens wasn't Peyton's fault. He's wasn't on the field. The Denver safety made a mistake. But as QB, you go for a 1st down & end the game right there. Forget OT. Kill your adversary right then & there. Sometimes, the safe play is a mistake John Fox & Peyton Manning. 

 

Yes, there are a lot of NFL franchise QBs that never win a ring. That's true, but #18 is not just any QB. I expect arguably 1 of the greatest NFL QBs in this league to seal the deal, slam the door shut, get to the Big Dance, & win the darn game. That's what SW1 truly believes Jules. Get It DONE NOW...

 

Very good post and I agree. He is not just another player but one who is expected to do greater things then most. We expect more from Manning then most QBs fair or not.

 

Well said and thank you for your insight since it was in the back of my mind lately.

 

I will say this, for all the flack about the end of regulation for the Broncos/Ravens......the Broncos still had OT to win the game and didn't. Not just Peyton either, the entire Denver team had chances too you know.

[southwest1]

Southwest, you know I am a big Rodgers fan and always had a soft spot for the Packers. But, when we played the Pack last season I wanted us to hit, sack and intercept Aaron until the cows came home. But, not hurt him of course. And then after the game I went back to my normal self.

 

When the Colts play, I want them to embarrass who they are playing if possible no matter who I like on the opposing team.

Divided loyalties makes things interesting Jules. Yes, the Colts are my favorite team & I will always support & root for them too. But, I will always admire what Peyton did for the city of Indianapolis & I can't just cut #18 off like an arm or a leg. It's like asking me to chose which nephew I love more? Matthew or Wyatt? I can't do it. Which makes for a fascinating dilemma: If the Colts & the Broncos were competing for a SB shot in the AFC Championship Game & the outcome came to 1 final drive who do I root for? A Peyton mishap or a Luck TD? Hmmm...This is the kind of stuff that makes NFL Playoffs so spectacular IMO...

[southwest1]

Very good post and I agree. He is not just another player but one who is expected to do greater things then most. We expect more from Manning then most QBs fair or not.

 

Well said and thank you for your insight since it was in the back of my mind lately.

 

I will say this, for all the flack about the end of regulation for the Broncos/Ravens......the Broncos still had OT to win the game and didn't. Not just Peyton either, the entire Denver team had chances too you know.

That's why I respect you Jules. You are not a blind sheep being mindlessly lead to the slaughterhouse. Keep it up my friend. ;)  You speak what's on your mind at all times & could care less if it is popular or not or how well the masses will interpret what you said. Yes, the entire Broncos squad had plenty of opportunities to win that Playoff game including 14 special teams points through kick return that should not have been squandered either IMO. 

[amfootball]

Not that it matters. But this forum would be a much better place if Peyton and Brady retired and went away into obscurity, lol

 

Brady had said that he wants to go into politics when he retires. He will wear Uggs shoes all the time and Movado watches. But Giselle will say all his speeches.

 

Peyton will be twirling pizza's at Papa John's to keep them from going under.

 

Eli will be eating oreos.

[Coltsince4]

With the way 12's o-line looked this past year, I would be more concerned about him. I think both will last though, they're big dudes.

Yea dude!!! But I'd rather get hit from someone from the line than someone coming across the field, OUCH!!!

[Qwiz]

Yea dude!!! But I'd rather get hit from someone from the line than someone coming across the field, OUCH!!!

I don't know, I think Brady can attest to injuries from the pocket. Football is so violent I think it goes without saying that injuries can happen anywhere. Again, though, I think both will be fine from here on out, apart from the occasional/expected knicks and bruises.

[OlBlu]

If you are right I will come and kiss you on the mouth.

 

I have a different area in mind.... :dancing:

[OlBlu]

Is that what you thought of Manning too back in 1998? And he only won 3 games to Luck's 11 and playoffs.

 

I mean I get that you don't don't think Luck is very good but your certainty on his demise borders on obsessive. Qbs do make adjustments to their game - if Luck stops trying to force the ball down field than his INTs and incompletes will go down drastically. This is quite a simple adjustment that many Qbs have to make and do make. He will also have another year and off-season with his rookies to get even better not to mention Wayne who he was just getting to know last year.

 

As I stated before, if I had to bet on one QB to not be around in the next 3-5 years it would be RG as he has already sustained two major injuries to the same kneee and plays a very riskly style. In addition, Shanny is going to ask him to change his game which never bodes well for a player as dynamic as RG. I am rooting for the guy as I love watching him play - he is a lot like Jordan, something special can happen on any play. I would also put Wilson as a higher risk as well than Luck because of his size but he does not run nearly as much as RG so I give him more of a chance.

 

BTW, if you want to talk about having poor numbers go look up Eli's first four years in the league. They were horrible. Now he has two rings, two SB MVPs. Qbs evolve and change and get better. Luck has way more upside than you are willing to give him credit for.

 

Since I give him very little credit for anything, that should be easy.... :dancing:

[OlBlu]

There's a good chance we'll be reading about RG111 in the obituaries some time next year from football he won't last three years

in this game just not tough Enough....

 

I worry about Luck since he takes more hard hits than any other QB in the NFL. If he doesn't learn to get rid of ball quicky to his secondary receivers, he stands a great chance of getting hurt. I think RGIII is very tough and that is the problem. He needs to give it up on runs and find a nice soft spot to settle in without taking punishment. He is a smart man and he should learn this.... :dancing:

[OlBlu]

Can we just all agree that Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, RG3, and Andrew Luck are all good QBs and just leave it at that? 

 

No!! You have one too many in there and three that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with the first one you named... :dancing:

[OlBlu]

I believe they are all special in their own way but to speak as if luck is a failure to me is insane . With his leadership and not phased by the pressure shows in every game. No line no rushing game and no top ten defense and the arians long development plays are some blame on his stat flaws. And don't forget all the dropped balls and the five starting rookies on offense . And still we made it to the playoffs.

 

Once again, he easily leads the NFL in excuses.... :dancing:

[House]

Hey look its that post again. And again and again and again and again and again.............

[House]

I don't know, I think Brady can attest to injuries from the pocket. Football is so violent I think it goes without saying that injuries can happen anywhere. Again, though, I think both will be fine from here on out, apart from the occasional/expected knicks and bruises.

Open field injuries have to far outway those in the pocket. I wish there was a statistic on that.

[Qwiz]

Open field injuries have to far outway those in the pocket. I wish there was a statistic on that.

Where is FJC? He would pull it up quickly. Regardless, I'm just saying that since both of them have been known to run, and both can operate well in the pocket, they can both be injured, as football is all about collisions.

[House]

Where is FJC? He would pull it up quickly. Regardless, I'm just saying that since both of them have been known to run, and both can operate well in the pocket, they can both be injured, as football is all about collisions.

No disputing that, but your more likely to get hurt in open field for sure. Players can get so much more momentum. When your hit in the pocket usually a guy is decelerating or just starting again.

[Qwiz]

No disputing that, but your more likely to get hurt in open field for sure. Players can get so much more momentum. When your hit in the pocket usually a guy is decelerating or just starting again.

Unless it's someone like JJ Watt or Clowney or a SS blitz and you aren't expecting it...those kinds of hits are just as devastating I think. Some of the open field hits are softened or not as bad, especially if it's a corner like Revis or someone like that making the stop.

[House]

Unless it's someone like JJ Watt or Clowney or a SS blitz and you aren't expecting it...those kinds of hits are just as devastating I think. Some of the open field hits are softened, especially if it's a corner like Revis or someone like that making the stop.

Of the hits your going to take, those are both on the low end of likelihood IMO.

Not that they don't happen or are rare, but they're not the most frequent by a fair margin.

[Qwiz]

Of the hits your going to take, those are both on the low end of likelihood IMO.

Not that they don't happen or are rare, but they're not the most frequent by a fair margin.

True. But if a QB is running, its more than likely because there's open space with no LBs and most QBs are smart enough to get out of bounds or slide, heck some can take on the corners/free safeties if they want.

[House]

True. But if a QB is running, its more than likely because there's open space with no LBs and most QBs are smart enough to get out of bounds or slide, heck some can take on the corners/free safeties if they want.

Oh I know, and I know crazy things happen at any position any time and anywhere on a football field. I'm just speaking generally, that's why a guy like Vick is hurt so much. Because he takes those open field hits over and over.

[Qwiz]

Oh I know, and I know crazy things happen at any position any time and anywhere on a football field. I'm just speaking generally, that's why a guy like Vick is hurt so much. Because he takes those open field hits over and over.

And his o-line is crap lol. Foles knows all about that too. But you're right, Vick has been stubborn before in the past when it comes to open field sliding.

[Knuckles79]

Once again, he easily leads the NFL in excuses.... :dancing:

Not excuses just facts and MY opinion. We get it you don't like Luck so why not sport your redskins or Seahawks jersey on sunday . Only quiters throw in the towel.

[Dustin]

Not excuses just facts and MY opinion. We get it you don't like Luck so why not sport your redskins or Seahawks jersey on sunday . Only quiters throw in the towel.

 

It's not even worth arguing with him. Trust me.

[luvdacolts67]

I do think this era will be more successful, but I say that because of our GM and HC, not the QB.  I think our HC will continue to build a more aggressive, "play with any score" defense instead of the "play with a lead" defense of the previous regime.  I also think our current GM will be much more focused on maintaining a solid offensive line.  I wish Manning could have been playing for the current FO and coaching staff, but that's not the way things worked out.  

I agree, Manning is the GOAT but he had terrible front office and coach's  he would have won more SB with Pagano and Grigson

[Coltsince4]

I don't know, I think Brady can attest to injuries from the pocket. Football is so violent I think it goes without saying that injuries can happen anywhere. Again, though, I think both will be fine from here on out, apart from the occasional/expected knicks and bruises.

Well to be honest with ya, PLEASE DON'T HIT ME, PLEASE DON'T HIT ME???? No more Coltsince4.......

[amfootball]

I agree, Manning is the GOAT but he had terrible front office and coach's  he would have won more SB with Pagano and Grigson

More excuses for #18. Denver gave him a top 5 defense AND top 5 run game and yet same result - one and done with three TOs and his special teams even spotted him 14 points.

 

I am not sure how Indy's defense or poor mgmt can be blamed at all for the following playoff losses:

1999 divisional playoffs - 19-16 - Titans

2000 Wild card - 23-17 - Miami

2003 AFC champ game - 24-14 - Pats

2004 divisional playoffs - 17-3 - Pats

2005 divisional playoffs - 21-18 - steelers

 

Manning averaged 13.6 per playoff game. Those are all on him and the O. The defense did its part. 

[amfootball]

I don't know, I think Brady can attest to injuries from the pocket. Football is so violent I think it goes without saying that injuries can happen anywhere. Again, though, I think both will be fine from here on out, apart from the occasional/expected knicks and bruises.

Your Brady example is terrible. Guy has never missed a game other than the '08 season from a freakish injury. Pollard lunged at his knees. RG was concussed and had his knee torn up in year 1. Much more dangerous out of the pocket than inside of it.

[Qwiz]

Your Brady example is terrible. Guy has never missed a game other than the '08 season from a freakish injury. Pollard lunged at his knees. RG was concussed and had his knee torn up in year 1. Much more dangerous out of the pocket than inside of it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my Brady example. He was hurt in the pocket. Griffin was hurt after picking up a fumbled ball. Who's to say RG isn't hurt only once his entire career like Brady? It can be just as dangerous in the pocket as outside of it.

[amfootball]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my Brady example. He was hurt in the pocket. Griffin was hurt after picking up a fumbled ball. Who's to say RG isn't hurt only once his entire career like Brady? It can be just as dangerous in the pocket as outside of it.

But Brady has been playing now for 12 seasons and has only had one serious injury that caused him to miss games. Griffin in year one was concussed and missed games and hurt his knee when he was running and Nagata slammed into it because he helicoptered it into the air and then reinjured it in playoff game well before he bent over to pick up the fumble.

 

One other thing, QBs like Brady, Manning etc also know when to slide when they get out of the pocket which is also something has not learned yet. Much bigger risk outside of the pocket.

[Qwiz]

But Brady has been playing now for 12 seasons and has only had one serious injury that caused him to miss games. Griffin in year one was concussed and missed games and hurt his knee when he was running and Nagata slammed into it because he helicoptered it into the air and then reinjured it in playoff game well before he bent over to pick up the fumble.

 

One other thing, QBs like Brady, Manning etc also know when to slide when they get out of the pocket which is also something has not learned yet. Much bigger risk outside of the pocket.

My point was not the longevity of Griffin himself (though I do believe that he will last, and excel) but that quarterbacks can suffer even worse injuries in the pocket than injuries in the open. It's not just an open field thing. We all know how quickly Brady and Manning will go down to avoid contact, no need to remind me of that.

[amfootball]

BTW, I believe the two QBs with the longest streaks of not missing any starts are Eli and Flacco - both pocket guys.

[amfootball]

My point was not the longevity of Griffin himself (though I do believe that he will last, and excel) but that quarterbacks can suffer even worse injuries in the pocket than injuries in the open. It's not just an open field thing. We all know how quickly Brady and Manning will go down to avoid contact, no need to remind me of that.

Well that is obvious then. We all know any player can be hurt on any play. Fact is RG and anyone else that runs outside of the pocket puts themself at much bigger risk.

[Qwiz]

BTW, I believe the two QBs with the longest streaks of not missing any starts are Eli and Flacco - both pocket guys.

Aaron Rodgers has not missed many starts. Neither has Kaepernick, Wilson, Cam. What do you make of them?

[Qwiz]

Well that is obvious then. We all know any player can be hurt on any play. Fact is RG and anyone else that runs outside of the pocket puts themself at much bigger risk.

That's not a fact. It's an opinion. Especially if Griffin begins to slide as opposed to getting hit on the sidelines etc. Running QBs can and have survived in this league.

[Dustin]

Aaron Rodgers has not missed many starts. Neither has Kaepernick, Wilson, Cam. What do you make of them?

 

Aaron Rodgers missed a start vs the Patriots in 2010. He got a concussion vs the Lions a week before. Matt Flynn started. 

[Qwiz]

Aaron Rodgers missed a start vs the Patriots in 2010. He got a concussion vs the Lions a week before. Matt Flynn started. 

Exactly. He has not missed many starts, as I said. That was one game and was like, three years ago.

[amfootball]

Aaron Rodgers has not missed many starts. Neither has Kaepernick, Wilson, Cam. What do you make of them?

Rodgers has missed starts and been concussed because he runs out of the pocket. Kaep, Wilson have only played one year, actually Kaep has only played about half a season and Cam only two season. The issue is risk, right? If all of them continue to play outide of the pocket they will miss games, whereas guys like Eli, Flacco make start after start...percentages are in the pocket guys favor.

[Dustin]

Exactly. He has not missed many starts, as I said. That was one game and was like, three years ago.

 

Oh thought you said "any". NVM then.

[amfootball]

That's not a fact. It's an opinion. Especially if Griffin begins to slide as opposed to getting hit on the sidelines etc. Running QBs can and have survived in this league.

Then you agree with me. Griffin needs to slide and be more smart to avoid injury as it is more dangerous outside of the pocket. I mean it really is not debatable when you look at the history of running QBs.