Freeney in the 3-4

[polians_pundit]

I have noticed Dwight looks a little lost out there so far. What do you think is causing this?

1.) new scheme

2.) age

3.) sandbagging/pre-season

4.) no need to worry, he will be fine.

Thanks for your thoughts. Go Colts

P.S. Jerry Hughes has looked pretty good so far, its about time. Keep up the good work #92!

[Thewholefnshow28]

It is a brand new system and something he probably has not done in over 10 years. Freeney is so use to just rushing the QB with his hand on the ground and now he is stood up and has to attack the QB an entirely different way.

It something of a concern, but I would not say the sky is falling just yet.

[Superman]

I'm actually encouraged by Freeney's play. I was worried that he'd resist the changes to the defense, but he has bought in. His issues aren't with technique or effort or ability, but with execution. He's clearly paying more attention to the supporting the run game than he ever has in the NFL, and on the plays where he's made mistakes, it's been an issue of overpursuing the ball carrier or biting on play-action, not an issue of him abandoning or being unable to carry out his responsibilities. All that, and he's still been around the ball as much as any other player in the defensive front.

I think he needs more time. Mathis, too. I don't know why people are so concerned about Freeney, but not concerned about Mathis. Through two games, he hasn't made any plays either. I think both will be fine once the season starts.

[mark5362]

3,4

[MR. Blueblood]

It is a brand new system and something he probably has not done in over 10 years. Freeney is so use to just rushing the QB with his hand on the ground and now he is stood up and has to attack the QB an entirely different way.

It something of a concern, but I would not say the sky is falling just yet.

Most of the plays I've seen Freeney take in camp (only missed 4 days) and so far in the games he's had a hand down the overwhelmingly majority of the time. He has done very little standing up. Will this change come regular season, maybe, but as of right now he's not doing much standing.

[HtownColt]

people are so worrysome over Freeney in Preseason..Can you name the last Preseason that Freeney actually did something in? the man is fine. Robert Mathis and Freeney both have just 1 tackle in preseason( http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=IND )but all the talk is on Freeney. Freeney and Mathis been there and done that just watch them come week 1 against that shaky Bears line.

[Carlos Danger]

Anybody buying the proposal in this guy's blog post? Would Dallas really consider that? I wasn't sure this guys opinion was worth starting a new thread over, but I do think this is an interesting thought....

http://thelandryhat.com/2012/08/28/cowboys-should-trade-for-freeney/

[Flash7]

I agree somewhat with the previous point that Freeney and Mathis generally have not shown much in past preseasons. However, this preseason is different for them especially. They are playing in new positions in a new defensive scheme. They should not take their reps in preseason so lightly. This is why I'm a little worried. I am under the impression that they are playing hard, but are ineffective to this point.

I do expect improvement once they figure this out. They're both incredibly atheletic and capable.

[Superman]

Anybody buying the proposal in this guy's blog post? Would Dallas really consider that? I wasn't sure this guys opinion was worth starting a new thread over, but I do think this is an interesting thought....

http://thelandryhat....de-for-freeney/

Not I. I don't think Freeney would fit any better in the Cowboys scheme than he does in Pagano's scheme; probably worse.

[Douzer]

Anybody buying the proposal in this guy's blog post? Would Dallas really consider that? I wasn't sure this guys opinion was worth starting a new thread over, but I do think this is an interesting thought....

http://thelandryhat....de-for-freeney/

I think he's correct. Freeney is a world class 4-3 pass rushing DE. The Cowboys would end up with Ware and Freeney.That will sell tickets, and the Colts would get CB Mike Jenkins who they really want. Jerry Jones is also one of the few that has the money to make the deal work. Trade them, sign new contracts and get them refitted into systems where they'll both thrive.

[Andy]

I thought Freeney has been doing pretty well in the new system. He was pretty good in the training camp and he's been pretty good during his limited amount of time in the preseason.

Don't worry about him too much.

[Andy]

I think he's correct. Freeney is a world class 4-3 pass rushing DE. The Cowboys would end up with Ware and Freeney.That will sell tickets, and the Colts would get CB Mike Jenkins who they really want. Jerry Jones is also one of the few that has the money to make the deal work. Trade them, sign new contracts and get them refitted into systems where they'll both thrive.

I think with Vontae Davis on the team now, the Colts probably don't really care about Mike Jenkins anymore.

[Gavin]

Dallas wouldnt do it, Jerry Jones has eyes and ears just like Irsay, he tunes in, he knows Freeney is struggling, so why would Jerry trade for a 32 year old (33 year old at the end of the season) 14 million dollar man whos struggling in the 3-4 as is? Only thing we can do is hope a 4-3 team gets completely desperate and pursuits a trade for Freeney and his 14 million(wont happen) or hope Freeney gets it (could happen but not counting on it)

[Superman]

I think with Vontae Davis on the team now, the Colts probably don't really care about Mike Jenkins anymore.

Adding Jenkins would give us a nasty top three. I'm not opposed to adding him, but I doubt it gets done.

[Andy]

Adding Jenkins would give us a nasty top three. I'm not opposed to adding him, but I doubt it gets done.

I was just saying that with Davis now on the team, the Colts probably aren't looking at Jenkins anymore, or even thinking about him. He'd be a solid add, but I'd like to see what Vaughn and some of the other guys could do in the nickel spot.

BTW, 5000th post!

[HtownColt]

Adding Jenkins would give us a nasty top three. I'm not opposed to adding him, but I doubt it gets done.

jenkins wants out of Dallas because he doesnt want to be a #3 corner. so why would he want to come here and be in the same situation

[Superman]

jenkins wants out of Dallas because he doesnt want to be a #3 corner. so why would he want to come here and be in the same situation

He wouldn't necessarily be #3 here. But he has no say in the matter if he's traded.

[waka waka]

doubt that trade happens but i'd like to see it...you could move powers into the slot with that move his true position.

[HtownColt]

Dwight Freeney is the highest paid player this year With $19 mil according to the Forbes list with Elvis Dumerville making 18.9mil.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120828/SPORTS03/120828061/Forbes-Dwight-Freeney-NFL-s-highest-paid-player-season?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndianapolis%20Sports

[southwest1]

I think he needs more time. Mathis, too. I don't know why people are so concerned about Freeney, but not concerned about Mathis. Through two games, he hasn't made any plays either. I think both will be fine once the season starts.

I thought Freeney has been doing pretty well in the new system. He was pretty good in the training camp and he's been pretty good during his limited amount of time in the preseason.

Don't worry about him too much.

Exactly gentlemen, there is no need to hit the nuclear red button and panic yet. Relax. You can't expect 2 men to go from hand in the dirt to standing straight up overnight and perform flawlessly. Mathis and Freeney are wicked smart. They will pick it up in short order. I'm not worried at all myself.

[ztboiler]

I am a little concerned about Freeney in the run game - and will help myself to dose a crow if he doesn't start to set an edge in the regular season as I've made previous comments that his adaptation to the run game would go smoothly - but I am concerned now. I have no idea what he was doing in the Redskins game unless there is a possible defensive call in our scheme that allows him to blindly ignore outside containment on a run play.

This is an admitted over reaction...I am back to reality now and I do not believe such a bright and physically dominant athlete will have any trouble mastering a pretty simple concept - run containment.

I still see zero reason to be concerned that he'll generate massive pass rush. A vet pass rusher has nothing to show in the preseason.

[deedub75]

Bleacher report doesn't think Freeney will make it two more months with the Colts. I still think he will be traded.

Dwight Freeney

"He's an Indianapolis legend and a possible Hall of Famer, but I don't think he's on the team in two months, let alone 12."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1241235-schaub-and-freeney-top-list-of-potential-2013-free-agents

[HtownColt]

Just Freeney being on the field shifts the pass protection onto his side leaving blitzers to run free and causes more one on one matchups on the other side. Freeney does a lot more for a defense than numbers will show and his sack numbers are still there.

[RW87]

Freeney will be fine.

Needs some time to learn this system.

[RW87]

Plus i'm sure Pagano will light a fire under his *

Mathis as well.

[colts52761]

actually i'd like to see jerry brown make the team at olb

[coltsfanatic24]

i say we trade freeney to a contending team for a young talented nose tackle, hughes and addison are a better fit in the 3-4.the ravens could use freeney with the injury of suggs, and terrance cody 6'4 350lb's would be a great addition to our team.

[drew22087]

With as much as Freeney has done for us lets give him a chance in the regular season before writing him off.

[JoKeR]

Freeney needed more playing time in the preseason IMO. I know he's older and can use preseason to rest himself for the back end of the season, but he doesn't look ready.

[ztboiler]

i say we trade freeney to a contending team for a young talented nose tackle, hughes and addison are a better fit in the 3-4.the ravens could use freeney with the injury of suggs, and terrance cody 6'4 350lb's would be a great addition to our team.

Hmmm....doesn't fit for us who need a proven pass rusher for our hybrid 3-4 D, but would fit so well for Ravens - who have perfected the same hybrid 3-4 D - that they would give up their starting NT?

[Superman]

I am a little concerned about Freeney in the run game - and will help myself to dose a crow if he doesn't start to set an edge in the regular season as I've made previous comments that his adaptation to the run game would go smoothly - but I am concerned now. I have no idea what he was doing in the Redskins game unless there is a possible defensive call in our scheme that allows him to blindly ignore outside containment on a run play.

This is an admitted over reaction...I am back to reality now and I do not believe such a bright and physically dominant athlete will have any trouble mastering a pretty simple concept - run containment.

I still see zero reason to be concerned that he'll generate massive pass rush. A vet pass rusher has nothing to show in the preseason.

I don't think he's ignored outside containment. The plays he's overrun were designed to go the opposite way. One play against the Redskins in particular, he should have pushed his man further into the backfield, instead of down the line. But that's not an issue of containment. Once the play goes away from him, his job is pursuit. The containment was done -- quite well, I might add -- on the other side of the play.

And actually, like I mentioned earlier in this thread, Freeney's willingness to support the run is encouraging. He's never been asked to pay this much attention to the ball carrier before, but he's embraced it. There are some execution issues that will get better as he gets more reps, but I'm not really worried about containment to his side. He's done just fine there.

In watching the Ravens defense, Terrell Suggs would often go for a couple of quarters without making any significant plays. Maybe he'd get a tackle on a run play, but not a lot of pressures or hits. Then he'd make a big play here, a tackle for a loss or a sack or QB pressure. But there were dry spells. He had 14 sacks last season, but 9 of them came in 3 games. That means that he had 5 sacks in the other 13 games. Has Freeney even played one game's worth of snaps yet? I don't think so.

Another thing about Suggs is that, the majority of his snaps, he plays a lot slower than Freeney does. Mostly a function of his position and having more responsibility, rather than just the hair on fire pass rush every down. It's really not surprising to see Freeney playing the way he is right now.

[ztboiler]

I don't think he's ignored outside containment. The plays he's overrun were designed to go the opposite way. One play against the Redskins in particular, he should have pushed his man further into the backfield, instead of down the line. But that's not an issue of containment. Once the play goes away from him, his job is pursuit. The containment was done -- quite well, I might add -- on the other side of the play.

And actually, like I mentioned earlier in this thread, Freeney's willingness to support the run is encouraging. He's never been asked to pay this much attention to the ball carrier before, but he's embraced it. There are some execution issues that will get better as he gets more reps, but I'm not really worried about containment to his side. He's done just fine there.

In watching the Ravens defense, Terrell Suggs would often go for a couple of quarters without making any significant plays. Maybe he'd get a tackle on a run play, but not a lot of pressures or hits. Then he'd make a big play here, a tackle for a loss or a sack or QB pressure. But there were dry spells. He had 14 sacks last season, but 9 of them came in 3 games. That means that he had 5 sacks in the other 13 games. Has Freeney even played one game's worth of snaps yet? I don't think so.

Another thing about Suggs is that, the majority of his snaps, he plays a lot slower than Freeney does. Mostly a function of his position and having more responsibility, rather than just the hair on fire pass rush every down. It's really not surprising to see Freeney playing the way he is right now.

I do see your point and am encouraged by it. Admitting my over reaction above, I really think it is much ado about nothing once real football starts.

That said, I guess I consider it a breakdown in containment when you don't have the cutback sealed off and you have outside contain responsiblity on the play - but that may not be technically true, but it is the same as not staying home on a reverse in my book. I don't think you can have a very technically sound scheme if Freeney isn't responsible for the cutbacks he gave up. It sure seems that Pagano thought so as well when he referred to setting the edge in his halftime interview. The most glaring failures to set an edge that I recall were where Hughes was doubled on the 24 yard run where they almost scored and the 2 or 3 cutback runs later right past Freeney.

[HtownColt]

this sounds alot like Texans fans last year about Mario Williams and how he dont fit in the OLB he is too big(290lbs). he had a mediocre preseason just like Freeney had(2 tackles, no sacks, no qb hurries, nothing). the the regular season came and he was dominant in his 5 games he played last year before his season ending injury. had 5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 pass defensed, 11 total tackles, consistent pressure(as a whole defense). i guess its natural for fans to be skeptical of this kind of move. but im not skeptical at all im excited to see freeney actually move around and go up against a weak RT instead of going up against the likes of Joe Thomas, Jake Long at LT every play. Just let the man play a full game before you criticize him. the Texans figured that out week 1

[lollygagger8]

I'm not convinced Freeney will be stellar in the 3-4.....at all. I really hope he does, but I don't think it's going to happen. Yes I think he's loafing a bit in preseason, but I still think he's lost when he's not concentrated on rushing the QB.

Plus, I'm most concerned about him in the run game. I think he'll get hurt going after a runner (if that ever happens that he doesn't take himself out of the play by rushing the QB) either the runner will go low and hurt his knee/ankle, or he'll get caught up in a pile or something. Not trying to jinx him, jsut have a nagging feeling.

I love Freeney, but I still don't believe he's worth the $19million dollar bet.

[southwest1]

I still think he's lost when he's not concentrated on rushing the QB.

Plus, I'm most concerned about him in the run game. I think he'll get hurt going after a runner (if that ever happens that he doesn't take himself out of the play by rushing the QB) either the runner will go low and hurt his knee/ankle, or he'll get caught up in a pile or something.

I love Freeney, but I still don't believe he's worth the $19million dollar bet.

Lollygager,

You make valid points that I cannot disagree with at all. Freeney was built to disturb, disrupt, and destroy QBs. Like you, I am more than a little leery with Freeney dropping in coverage. We can't afford to keep him at the $19 million price tag and I seriously doubt that he would agree to a major salary cut. If we are winning and Freeney performs well in this scheme, he will stay. If he is still struggling by week 8 of the regular season, Freeney is gone next year.

[Superman]

I do see your point and am encouraged by it. Admitting my over reaction above, I really think it is much ado about nothing once real football starts.

That said, I guess I consider it a breakdown in containment when you don't have the cutback sealed off and you have outside contain responsiblity on the play - but that may not be technically true, but it is the same as not staying home on a reverse in my book. I don't think you can have a very technically sound scheme if Freeney isn't responsible for the cutbacks he gave up. It sure seems that Pagano thought so as well when he referred to setting the edge in his halftime interview. The most glaring failures to set an edge that I recall were where Hughes was doubled on the 24 yard run where they almost scored and the 2 or 3 cutback runs later right past Freeney.

Well, semantics. I get your point. But there's a difference between not setting the edge for containment and overpursuing the play. One infers that the linebacker or end was pushed back and taken out of the play, like Hughes was on the play you reference. The other means that the linebacker or end was a little undisciplined and took himself out of the play.

When Pagano mentioned setting the edge, I thought it was more about on the play side, not the back side. Because we didn't do a good job on the play side in the first half. On the plays were Freeney was out of position on the cutback, that's more about him understanding angles better than it is about his ability to hold his position. Defense is about geometry. The more Freeney plays that position, the better he'll understand where he should be pushing his man. On the play I mentioned before, he bullrushed the blocker a good eight yards, but it was essentially straight down the line. He should have been moving his man further into the backfield, pinching the back in if he tried to cut back. The back would either have had to stay further to the inside, closer to the rest of the defense, or he would have had to go further into the backfield to get around Freeney and the blocker. As it happened, Freeney was trying to make a play from behind, but in doing so, he sacrificed his backside containment.

But, by way of contrast, we could have seen Freeney make no effort to be involved in the play once he saw it was a run to the other side. We could have seen him run up the field to get involved beyond the line of scrimmage. We could have seen him get dominated by the blocker and have zero chance of making a play at all. The fact that he was pushing his man toward the play shows that he is interested in making a difference in the run game. It also shows that he can handle the physical aspect of the position. I think it's just a technicality at this point, something that he needs to get more familiar with. And he simply hasn't had enough time yet.

[ztboiler]

Well, semantics. I get your point. But there's a difference between not setting the edge for containment and overpursuing the play. One infers that the linebacker or end was pushed back and taken out of the play, like Hughes was on the play you reference. The other means that the linebacker or end was a little undisciplined and took himself out of the play.

When Pagano mentioned setting the edge, I thought it was more about on the play side, not the back side. Because we didn't do a good job on the play side in the first half. On the plays were Freeney was out of position on the cutback, that's more about him understanding angles better than it is about his ability to hold his position. Defense is about geometry. The more Freeney plays that position, the better he'll understand where he should be pushing his man. On the play I mentioned before, he bullrushed the blocker a good eight yards, but it was essentially straight down the line. He should have been moving his man further into the backfield, pinching the back in if he tried to cut back. The back would either have had to stay further to the inside, closer to the rest of the defense, or he would have had to go further into the backfield to get around Freeney and the blocker. As it happened, Freeney was trying to make a play from behind, but in doing so, he sacrificed his backside containment.

But, by way of contrast, we could have seen Freeney make no effort to be involved in the play once he saw it was a run to the other side. We could have seen him run up the field to get involved beyond the line of scrimmage. We could have seen him get dominated by the blocker and have zero chance of making a play at all. The fact that he was pushing his man toward the play shows that he is interested in making a difference in the run game. It also shows that he can handle the physical aspect of the position. I think it's just a technicality at this point, something that he needs to get more familiar with. And he simply hasn't had enough time yet.

You are right, he was enjoying roughing up that tackle a little too much...and I'm OK with it - he knows how to play football and will be sound when the lights come on.

[deedub75]

It doesn't really matter how well he plays, he's still not worth $19M playing a 3-4 OLB.

[HtownColt]

It doesn't really matter how well he plays, he's still not worth $19M playing a 3-4 OLB.

elvis Dumerville is getting paid $18.9 million, peyton Manning $18 million, Bradford $15.6 million, Rivers $15.3, Jared Allen $15.2, and tamba Hali $14.5 million. they top off the Forbes list for highest paid players this year. http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper/2012/08/27/the-highest-salaried-nfl-players/

but when you have consistent production every year like Freeney has you get that big 5 year contract that pays you $19million on your last year

[Superman]

It doesn't really matter how well he plays, he's still not worth $19M playing a 3-4 OLB.

Technically, he's being paid $14 million.

And the thing to remember is that he was never meant to play out this final year of his contract. I'm 99.99% certain that Polian would have addressed that contract by now. It was an obvious decision point.