Is This Super Bowl Destiny?

[dynasty13]

More ridiculous Brady-hating garbage, Doogan.

And as usual, you make a derogatory Brady statement without:

1. Providing a single shred of evidence to support it...

2. Considering the ramifications of someone making the same argument against YOUR guy...

seriously....awful, awful post....as per usual

[Manning2Wayne]

He also mentioned how lucky he has been to have been watching Peyton QB since Peyton was in 7th grade. I remember an interview with Eli before their last superbowl and he was asked to give a one word description of each of his family members. For both mom and dad he said "a Saint" for Cooper "a character". For Peyton - "the best"

could this meam eli is better than peyton, since 7th grade he watched the GOAT develop and transfer

hmmm

[JimJaime]

Patriots got "lucky" and got in the SB

Eli and the Giants had to claw and battle to get in.

I will take the battle tested team to win it all this year

I will agree the Pats got lucky vs Baltimore, but the Giants got REALLY LUCKY against SF they got not 1 BUT 2 TO deep in SF territory after punts. SO I say they both had a rabbits foot in their championship games.

[JimJaime]

Rodgers isn't that young. I mean, this was his 8th season in the league.

Manning also isn't a "statistical QB," as he's won a championship, and has been to another. He's a great QB, period.

Brady is a beneficiary of a great system, as is Big Ben - as were Troy Aikman, and Terry Bradshaw. Golden Boys who won a lot, but didn't have to do much of anything to get there. Granted, you can only play with who you've got, and you can only execute a gameplan the coaches you have set forth. Still, the Super Bowl dynasties are not products of a QB, but of a great system. The QB is a much smaller piece in those systems.

One needs to look no further than Brady's stats in all but one of his last 5 playoff games. He literally hurt his team more than he helped them, but they got wins.

Wow, look at Peytons stats in the playoffs, he hardly lights it on fire, why? because he knows he has be perfect to win.. Same thing happened to Brady the last COUPLE of years, this year the D actually won the game for them in the Championship. So now he KNOWS he doesnt have to be perfect.

Also as far as stats go.. what INDIVIDUAL record does Manning still have? Seems people forget Brady broke a lot of those records and has even thrown for more yards in a season than manning (#2 all time behind Brees) but Brady and I am pretty sure Manning give all the individual records for more Championships.

[Natashasor]

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[jjcolts]

I will agree the Pats got lucky vs Baltimore, but the Giants got REALLY LUCKY against SF they got not 1 BUT 2 TO deep in SF territory after punts. SO I say they both had a rabbits foot in their championship games.

Giants created 2 TO’s that were game changing plays..and yes they were lucky that Kyle Williams was playing that day instead of Ginn.

You can’t tell me that is comparable to the way the Patriots win.

Having said that, there is absolutely nothing wrong with “getting lucky” to get in the SB. Teams that get these far are good and at some point have gotten lucky. There was no ill intent on my statement.

[-JJ-]

Giants created 2 TO’s that were game changing plays..and yes they were lucky that Kyle Williams was playing that day instead of Ginn.

You can’t tell me that is comparable to the way the Patriots win.

Having said that, there is absolutely nothing wrong with “getting lucky” to get in the SB. Teams that get these far are good and at some point have gotten lucky. There was no ill intent on my statement.

Granting you have no ill will and its just a statement.......

How were the Pats lucky? FGs are missed. Especially when rushed due to bad coaching. A ball swatted out of the WR hands by a Pats defender. How is that luck?

Why are all games (or most) decided by 3 pts lucky...and not actually football?

Football never has been "paper" perfect.

[jjcolts]

Granting you have no ill will and its just a statement.......

How were the Pats lucky? FGs are missed. Especially when rushed due to bad coaching. A ball swatted out of the WR hands by a Pats defender. How is that luck?

Why are all games (or most) decided by 3 pts lucky...and not actually football?

Football never has been "paper" perfect.

Maybe you guys have a different outlook or a negative conotation on 'lucky" I sure don't. For example, I am not ashamed to say that Colts were lucky the Pats beat out SD the year we won the SB. Glad you guys took them out of the equation.

And that just doesn’t bother me.

And if it were the Colts on the other end of the Baltimore Pats AFC game…I would be saying OMG we got so “lucky.”

You don’t think luck has anything at all to do with the outcomes of some games? And the saying good teams create good “luck” and create bounces in favor of their team.

The difference I am looking at is: wow the Giants made a great play…..and WOW Cundiff sucks…..

That is my outlook.

[Jules]

Christ.

I wish I didn't start this now. I just meant kinda it seemed like DESTINY that these two teams are here in INDY.

Now the QB debate rages on........

Christ.

[Jules]

So there I did it. I just started a thread on Brady and his rankings if he wins this game.

Have at it folks. And realize it is a debate if Brady wins this game Sunday. A strong one.

But, in some ways this game does seem strange to me being the location and who is in it. Yikes.

[-JJ-]

Maybe you guys have a different outlook or a negative conotation on 'lucky" I sure don't. For example, I am not ashamed to say that Colts were lucky the Pats beat out SD the year we won the SB. Glad you guys took them out of the equation.

And that just doesn’t bother me.

And if it were the Colts on the other end of the Baltimore Pats AFC game…I would be saying OMG we got so “lucky.”

You don’t think luck has anything at all to do with the outcomes of some games? And the saying good teams create good “luck” and create bounces in favor of their team.

The difference I am looking at is: wow the Giants made a great play…..and WOW Cundiff sucks…..

That is my outlook.

NE knocking out SD you can call luck because you didn't have to face them but who's to say you don't beat them? Just because you didn't in the past?

I as a fan might say we were lucky in the Ravens game but thats only an emotion. You play 60 min with 80+ plays. Trade the guy who got the ball knocked out of his hands to another play in the middle of the game and put Brady's TD play at the end. What do you got. Same outcome.

You can argue the bounce of the ball is luck but that too equals out. There is no luck. FG kickers miss sometimes..especially when maybe rushed.

I could say Brady was lucky on the QB sneak TD. So, we were lucky to win. Or we don't knock the ball out of the recievers hand and we lose. Not on luck but because a play wasn't made.

So many people say this team was lucky because the other team fumbled (like Giants -SF) Fact is there are fumbles,mistakes,and miscues in football. Its who makes more plays and less mistakes because there will always be mistakes.

[Jules]

I almost forgot.

There is a Super Bowl this weekend?

How do you like that.

[jjcolts]

I almost forgot.

There is a Super Bowl this weekend?

How do you like that.

I almost forgot... :sadno: ..I really wish it was 49ers vs Pats...

[Jules]

I wanted Green Bay to repeat. Sadly though, the last ranked D never got it going on. It might be better they did not make it. They deserved to lose to the Giants.

I know they lost Jenkins and Collins from the D but still it was a poor excuse for a D that was so rock solid the year before.

Aaron was lights out this season even when receivers couldn't catch a cold. *coughFinleycough*

[GoPats]

Also as far as stats go.. what INDIVIDUAL record does Manning still have? Seems people forget Brady broke a lot of those records and has even thrown for more yards in a season than manning (#2 all time behind Brees) but Brady and I am pretty sure Manning give all the individual records for more Championships.

Manning is still the league's only 4-time MVP. I think you've got to give him credit for that. I'm pretty sure he also holds quite a few career records, like consecutive 4,000-yard seasons.

But I agree, I think all players would give up individual awards or stats for championships. As most of them say during SB week, "this is why everyone plays this game."

[zach_mcqueen]

yeah Eli can have to rings and I dont think he will be considered better than peyton..Look at Brady, He has 3 or 4 rings right? and I still dont think he is better.

you have to divide qb's into 2 seperate groups I think: The statistic Qb's like Manning and then the Championship Qb's like Brady and Big Ben.

So I dont think you can compare Eli to Manning just because he has 2 rings, but you can compare him to Big Ben and Brady. Although this game is played to win championships, there still needs to be the division of qb's when talking greatness IMO

Based on this flawed logic, Montana would never be considered one of the greatest since all he ever did was win SBs.

And btw, Brady DOES have the statistics. Take a look at the record books.

[turner46992]

Based on this flawed logic, Montana would never be considered one of the greatest since all he ever did was win SBs.

And btw, Brady DOES have the statistics. Take a look at the record books.

Actually he would, in the Championship division I was talking about, Brady, Big Ben, and Montana and Im sure others that have more than 1 ring are considered great, which they are. but you can just use that statistic alone because look at manning 1 ring but has a ton of good stats, look at montana 3 or 4 rings and not very good stats..so that what I am saying about dividing the qbs

[zach_mcqueen]

Actually he would, in the Championship division I was talking about, Brady, Big Ben, and Montana and Im sure others that have more than 1 ring are considered great, which they are. but you can just use that statistic alone because look at manning 1 ring but has a ton of good stats, look at montana 3 or 4 rings and not very good stats..so that what I am saying about dividing the qbs

Ok, I see your point.

But where would Brady fit? He has both statistics and SBs.

[turner46992]

Ok, I see your point.

But where would Brady fit? He has both statistics and SBs.

True, I guess he could be a "hybrid" lol, someone that fits in both categories but is stronger I think in the Championship, He ranks in both I guess now that you mention it

[ColtsBlueFL]

Well, I'm not hearing much from the defense wins championships crowd. Neither of these D's are really all that good. The front 4 of the Giants is pretty formidable, but if NE can run, they can take away some of that pinning the ears back stuff. And Brady can pile up yards on their secondary. Their double tight end sets can protect the QB. So I think they can keep up in a shoot out. And the Patriots D, why not good overall, has shown to be situation-ally good lately. Making a play in key situations. There's no coach better at preparation for situations then Bill Belichick, IMHO.. Especially with two weeks to prepare. Brady had a bad game previously by his own admission. When has he had two in a row? I'm not liking it much, but I am sort of leaning toward a Patriot victory at this juncture... even with an on the mend Gronk doing his best Freeney pre- Super Bowl limp. Actually, I feel it could be last guy with the ball as clock winds down could take this.

[Jules]

Well, I'm not hearing much from the defense wins championships crowd. Neither of these D's are really all that good. The front 4 of the Giants is pretty formidable, but if NE can run, they can take away some of that pinning the ears back stuff. And Brady can pile up yards on their secondary. Their double tight end sets can protect the QB. So I think they can keep up in a shoot out. And the Patriots D, why not good overall, has shown to be situation-ally good lately. Making a play in key situations. There's no coach better at preparation for situations then Bill Belichick, IMHO.. Especially with two weeks to prepare. Brady had a bad game previously by his own admission. When has he had two in a row? I'm not liking it much, but I am sort of leaning toward a Patriot victory at this juncture... even with an on the mend Gronk doing his best Freeney pre- Super Bowl limp. Actually, I feel it could be last guy with the ball as clock winds down could take this.

This is what I am unsure about. The ENTIRE Giants D has stepped it up for the playoffs and leading up to it. I am not sure if they all got better or it is a result of the d line healthy at the right time. Pressure is a defenses best friend of course.

[Jules]

Manning is still the league's only 4-time MVP. I think you've got to give him credit for that. I'm pretty sure he also holds quite a few career records, like consecutive 4,000-yard seasons.

But I agree, I think all players would give up individual awards or stats for championships. As most of them say during SB week, "this is why everyone plays this game."

You know whats funny. Talked to a few Saints fans this season on another forum. Man are they still mad Brees did not win the MVP in 2009. Claim he was robbed and Manning won due to his name.

[uljaz]

Seems so odd to me and I should have seen it all coming. I started to get a feeling on the Giants after they beat down Atlanta but was not sure yet. Watching the mistakes the Ravens/Niners/Packers made.....well it almost seemed like the two teams in the big dance were meant to be here.

Which is so odd considering where the Super Bowl is. One team is led by the arch rival of Peyton for his entire career. The other led by his baby brother.

Who is destined to win this thing? Not sure. If Brady and the Pats win the story is winning it for Myra Kraft mostly right now.

If Eli wins it is almost like....for me anyway, he is winning it for Peyton too based on the circumstances. We don't know what will happen with Peyton. But, we do know Peyton wants his brother to win if he can't. And it's IN Indy.

I can see this turning into am emotional game before and after......especially if Eli wins it all.

I don't buy any true competitive edge with the Manning brothers. They love each other dearly and always have. When people bring up Eli could have another ring I don't care. Not one bit.

"“Destiny and mystique sound like a couple of strippers.”

- Curt Schilling, Red Sox pitcher

[chad72]

You know whats funny. Talked to a few Saints fans this season on another forum. Man are they still mad Brees did not win the MVP in 2009. Claim he was robbed and Manning won due to his name.

They hate Archie too because he evaded taxes, I have heard comments that suggest that???

A lot of Saints fans - Archie and his kids have worn out their welcome from a decade ago, IMO.

Now that the Saints are losing more in the playoffs, they have more time to concentrate on individual accolades. That was not the case a few years ago.

[chad72]

A few more stats in favor of the Pats - Cardinals in 2008, Colts in 2009 and Giants in 2011 all share the same stat - 32nd in rushing offense. Cardinals and Colts were SB losers, Giants??? Steelers in 2008, Saints in 2009, Packers in 2010, Pats in 2011 - all of them were top 5 in INTs generated on defense. Steelers, Saints, and Packers all won.

Just thought I'd make a few Pats fans happy going in :).

[chad72]

No, I am leaning towards the Giants in a close one for another reason. Since the divisions got re-aligned IN 2002, no team that has played the AFC West entirely has ever won the SB. Raiders were the last one to make it having played the AFC West and they lost. Packers played the AFC West this year. Pats are the second team to make the SB for a team that played the AFC West entirely since 2002.

But the Pats have the NFC East factor going for them - a team that played the NFC East or from the NFC East has won the SB since 2006. Colts in 2006, Giants in 2007 vs Pats (who also played the NFC East), Pitt in 2008 vs Cardinals (who also played the NFC East), Saints in 2009, Packers in 2010 all fit the pattern. Note that when the NFC East factor applies to both teams, it is a dog fight in the SB, like in 2007 & 2008 till the end.

That is why I feel the 49ers/Giants winner could be the likely winner in the SB since they did not have the AFC West factor against them but had the NFC East factor going for them. But then, patterns are just that. Which one is more powerful - the AFC West jinx or the NFC East schedule lucky charm?

The AFC West jinx is just too powerful, my friends, listen up the next time Jules and I talk patterns, lol

[Jules]

The AFC West jinx is just too powerful, my friends, listen up the next time Jules and I talk patterns, lol

What are we looking at for next year chad? NFC East is played by the AFC North and NFC South.

But, the NFC South plays the AFC West.

An NFC East team getting back can happen.....hear that Giants?

Steelers or Ravens. More likely a Steelers year again to me in the AFC considering the Pats have the SB loser curse now and they will take advantage again. And they may not let the Ravens off the hook this year. I don't trust Flacco either and this past year the Steelers had the SB loser hangover.

[Jules]

Yikes.

AFC North and NFC South both play the AFC West AND the NFC East.

The SB winner might be the Giants again next year or who comes out of the East.

Eli might be getting ring #3 next year.

[chad72]

Yikes.

AFC North and NFC South both play the AFC West AND the NFC East.

The SB winner might be the Giants again next year or who comes out of the East.

Eli might be getting ring #3 next year.

I expect the NFC rep to be the Packers or Eagles next year. The AFC rep - the usual suspects as always - Pats, Steelers with Jets, Ravens & Chargers on the outside looking in, my vote is on the Steelers.

Battle of Pennsylvania - Eagles vs Steelers, let me call it right now . Vick will be back in the South, in the Big Easy, hmmm....

Or, the Saints, like they broke the 43 year old "whoever loses to Tampa never wins the SB" curse, they may break the "host never wins the SB" curse as well. We all know they get tons of calls inside the Superdome anyway. So, if the Saints get a No.1 seeding, watch out.

[Jules]

I expect the NFC rep to be the Packers or Eagles next year. The AFC rep - the usual suspects as always - Pats, Steelers with Jets, Ravens & Chargers on the outside looking in, my vote is on the Steelers.

Battle of Pennsylvania - Eagles vs Steelers, let me call it right now . Vick will be back in the South, in the Big Easy, hmmm....

Why the Packers if they don't play the East?

Agree on the Steelers. I won't put VIck in the SB though.

I am going with Giants or Packers but unless GB improves that awful D they won't go back.

[Jules]

Ben vs. Eli

The battle for the third ring.

I WANT it to be the Packers. But, unless they improve one of THE WORST passing defenses I have ever seen they will be in some trouble. And Aaron made that ridiculous comment about the Giants faking injuries vs. them so they will be lathered up to play him.

I wish Aaron didn't say that.

[chad72]

I won't put VIck in the SB though.

I don't know, that Eagles' D seemed to get its act straight towards the end of the year but it was too late. Vick will play in the Big Easy during the year at some point in time, and from his experience in the Falcons days and having had a road win at Lambeau (one of few QBs to do so), I feel Vick is the kind of guy who will play better on the road once he gets into the playoffs. Ironically, when Vick's Falcons reached the NFCCG a while ago, they lost at Philly to McNabb, the stadium Vick calls home now . Yes, the make up of the Eagles team is different but that team won twice on the road before losing to Kurt Warner in the NFCCG in 2008. Andy Reid is the Bill Cowher of the NFC, losing all those championship games (before Cowher broke through as a wild card on the strength of his defense). I would not be shocked if Andy Reid and the Eagles are all business to start the season. If the Eagles take on the Saints in the Superdome and beat them, that will raise a lot of eyebrows. That is one of the games I am looking forward to.

[Jules]

I have to see it to believe it with the Eagles. They give the Giants fits at times so it's possible.

As for the Packers, they can do it but I am not as hopeful as last offseason for them. I just don't know if the D will be good enough. And I am afraid if they put it all on Aaron again he might stumble more this time around.

I think the Giants could be the first team since NE to repeat.....which would be ironic and help Eli's "elite" case even more.