NFL GM's Poll: Winston-Mariota, Boom or Bust?

[NewColtsFan]

....  this from the very respected Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

 

Every year they do an anonymous poll of NFL execs on a variety of topics...

 

This year, one hot topic was Mariota and Winston,  hit or miss?

 

The results, are interesting....    an easy read....

 

One footnote:   This is the same type of poll that when it was done in 2012,  20 NFl execs favored Luck over Wilson by a margin of 19-1.     Just sayin....

 

Enjoy!!       

 

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/jameis-winston-seen-as-having-same-faults-as-07-bust-jamarcus-russell-b99486128z1-301170101.html

[C0lts088]

"Besides Russell, Fisher prepared Rohan Davey for New England (fourth round) in 2002, Christian Ponder for Minnesota (first round) in 2011 and E.J. Manuel for Buffalo (second round) in 2013. They're failures, too."

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't EJ Manuel a first rounder?

But other than that, a very Interesting article, I myself would take Mariotta; and honestly wouldn't even look at Winston. This article gave me even more the reason to do so.

[12isthenew18]

Winston= BOOOM times 10

Mariota= Bust times 5

[NFLfan]

.... this from the very respected Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

One footnote: This is the same type of poll that when it was done in 2012, 20 NFl execs favored Luck over Wilson by a margin of 19-1. Just sayin....

Enjoy!!

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/jameis-winston-seen-as-having-same-faults-as-07-bust-jamarcus-russell-b99486128z1-301170101.html

Thanks for sharing the article. It is an interesting read but it is not balanced. It gives almost nothing positive about the player (Winston). It sounds a lot like something that Nolan Nawrocki would write to draw attention to himself. An example:

"He's got that same smile that JaMarcus had. They light the room up. That's what Jameis seems to be doing."

Now, why did they do a poll of Luck and Wilson in 2012? Did you mean to write that Luck was compared to RG3? I don't recall anyone putting Wilson on the level of Luck in the months leading up to the 2012 draft. I am surprised that one executive favored Wilson over Luck at that time.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Thanks for sharing the article. It is an interesting read but it is not balanced. It gives almost nothing positive about the player (Winston). It sounds a lot like something that Nolan Nawrocki would write to draw attention to himself. An example:

"He's got that same smile that JaMarcus had. They light the room up. That's what Jameis seems to be doing."

Now, why did they do a poll of Luck and Wilson in 2012? Did you mean to write that Luck was compared to RG3? I don't recall anyone putting Wilson on the level of Luck in the months leading up to the 2012 draft. I am surprised that one executive favored Wilson over Luck at that time.

 

I had the same thought... was it Luck vs. RGIII , or Wilson?  Now I know most didn't have Wilson on their radar, but every once in a while I would hear a blurb like "Wilson has the highest ranked QB rating in the country"  or' Wilson had 31 TD's to just 3 interceptions' etc...  But what was an overdiing factor was the height debate.  Every show that featured Wilson on it had 'the' short QB debate rage at some point.  Most were down on him only because of that reason.  A brave few kept pointing to Drew Brees and saying that it shouldn't be such a big issue anymore. Other would adamantly said it would  But read this pre-draft report on Wilson.  Nothing bad except his height. If he was 3 inches taller, there would have been no doubt he would have been in the Luck, RGIII conversation as well.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/russell-wilson?id=2532975

 

So I think his grade (back then) goes from somewhere in the 90's to about 70 because he was under 6 feet tall.

[NFLfan]

I had the same thought... was it Luck vs. RGIII , or Wilson? Now I know most didn't have Wilson on their radar, but every once in a while I would hear a blurb like "Wilson has the highest ranked QB rating in the country" or' Wilson had 31 TD's to just 3 interceptions' etc... But what was an overdiing factor was the height debate. Every show that featured Wilson on it had 'the' short QB debate rage at some point. Most were down on him only because of that reason. A brave few kept pointing to Drew Brees and saying that it shouldn't be such a big issue anymore. Other would adamantly said it would But read this pre-draft report on Wilson. Nothing bad except his height. If he was 3 inches taller, there would have been no doubt he would have been in the Luck, RGIII conversation as well.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/russell-wilson?id=2532975

So I think his grade (back then) goes from somewhere in the 90's to about 70 because he was under 6 feet tall.

Oh, I am sure some liked Wilson but Luck was viewed as far more superior than almost all the QBs, except maybe RG3 who came close. I like Wilson a lot, but back then he was not on Luck's level. So, it is interesting that there was a poll that asked execs to choose between those two. The only explanation that I could think of is that this is a Milwaukee paper and Wilson played at Wisconsin... I do recall draft experts talking about Wilson's height. Some dismissed him completely, I believe. (I may be wrong.)

I'm interested to see what these same execs thought of last year's group of QBs. Maybe NCF has an article about it.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Oh, I am sure some liked Wilson but Luck was viewed as far more superior than almost all the QBs, except maybe RG3 who came close. I like Wilson a lot, but back then he was not on Luck's level. So, it is interesting that there was a poll that asked execs to choose between those two. The only explanation that I could think of is that this is a Milwaukee paper and Wilson played at Wisconsin... I do recall draft experts talking about Wilson's height. Some dismissed him completely, I believe. (I may be wrong.)

I'm interested to see what these same execs thought of last year's group of QBs. Maybe NCF has an article about it.

 

All the scouting reports mentioned Wilson had the arm, football smarts etc to be a top QB. What he did not have was a 6' 4" 225 lb body.  But as athletic as Luck was at the combine, Wilson had a better 40 yd dash, a better 3 cone drill, and better 20 yard shuttle time too. 

 

This was Wilson NFL Draft Analysis-

 

************************************************************************

Strengths

 

Wilson is an accurate passer. He is a very mechanical quarterback who is consistent in his drop step and thoroughly understands how to move within the pocket and evade when the pocket collapses. He is an athlete and can torque his body to make any sort of throw on the run, and is accurate in this setting. He is a born signal caller who shows command of the offense. He has the arm strength to make the deep throws and the touch to put it on a receiver in stride. He is effective when scrambling and is a classic play extender.

 

Weaknesses

 

Wilson's height will be his biggest inhibitor at the next level and the largest reason for his late-round value. It remains to be seen if he can throw effectively from the pocket at the next level.

 

*****************************************************************

 

They admit it was height that dropped Wilson's grade, not performance issues. I'd be interested in thoughts on last years QB group as well.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I'm interested to see what these same execs thought of last year's group of QBs. Maybe NCF has an article about it.

 

Haven't anything about the rookie QB's, but did find this poll about Luck and some vet QB's from June 2014 -

 

****************************************************************

 

Q. If you were starting a new team, which quarterback would you want to have?

Aaron Rodgers, Packers, 6 votes.

Andrew Luck, Colts, 3.

Russell Wilson, Seahawks, 1

Tom Brady, Patriots, 1.

Peyton Manning, Broncos, 1.

[NFLfan]

All the scouting reports mentioned Wilson had the arm, football smarts etc to be a top QB. What he did not have was a 6' 4" 225 lb body. But as athletic as Luck was at the combine, Wilson had a better 40 yd dash, a better 3 cone drill, and better 20 yard shuttle time too.

This was Wilson NFL Draft Analysis-

************************************************************************

Strengths

Wilson is an accurate passer. He is a very mechanical quarterback who is consistent in his drop step and thoroughly understands how to move within the pocket and evade when the pocket collapses. He is an athlete and can torque his body to make any sort of throw on the run, and is accurate in this setting. He is a born signal caller who shows command of the offense. He has the arm strength to make the deep throws and the touch to put it on a receiver in stride. He is effective when scrambling and is a classic play extender.

Weaknesses

Wilson's height will be his biggest inhibitor at the next level and the largest reason for his late-round value. It remains to be seen if he can throw effectively from the pocket at the next level.

*****************************************************************

They admit it was height that dropped Wilson's grade, not performance issues. I'd be interested in thoughts on last years QB group as well.

Thank you for posting that. I was unable to access the article in your previous post. Despite his strengths, I don't recall too many people being high on Wilson. One local guy here thought if Wilson was good enough he would not have lost his job to Glennon.

Bringing it back to Winston and Mariota, who do you like better? Winston scares me because of his off-the-field issues but many believe he might be the better player. I'd probably take Mariota or neither.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Thank you for posting that. I was unable to access the article in your previous post. Despite his strengths, I don't recall too many people being high on Wilson. One local guy here thought if Wilson was good enough he would not have lost his job to Glennon.

 

Before I answer the Winston-Mariota question, I want to address just a tad more on Wilson, since your local guy had room to take a shot. 

 

Wilson was/is a MLB level talent. {Now a Rule 5 draft of the Texas Rangers}  Even though it was apparent to MLB teams Wilson was slated for the NFL (unlike the media heads on TV at the time) they still drafted him.  And Wilson played minor league ball in addition to college football.  The NC State HC Tom O'Brien was not approving of the duel sports (like Jameis Winston was doing at FL State), and he let Wilson know he was no longer wanted- and that was a big part  of the decision.  Since Wilson had graduated, he could transfer without sitting out a year.  Choices- Auburn or Wisconsin.  He became a Badger because, Wisconsin ran a Pro set, and they had huge O linemen. He had a great year and lost to Oregon in the Rose Bowl 45-38.

 

Story time-  Arkansas head coach (who was Wisconsin coach in 2012 with Wilson) Bret Bielema was interviewing for the Dolphins job.  During the process, he promises Phin brass a Super Bowl within 5 years if the draft Russell Wilson, the 5' 10 QB from Wisconsin, and in at least round 2 (where he felt was their last chance to get him).  They felt he was 100% certifiable crazy. They had same thoughts as Kiper and other media analysts, as they said He's undersized. He can't throw. Bielema said, OK, all right,' and honestly, that day, kind of pulled himself out of the HC job. He couldn't work for a group that wasn't on the same page.And Phins took Tannehill with #8 overall pick.

 

Then, Seattle's Schneider visited Bielema/Wilson four times during his senior season, but was very low-key as to not tip his hand. While most scouts wanted the measurables, Bielema says Schneider asked different questions. What did he do best in the locker room? What kind of a leader was he in practice? Then he texted Bielema in second round of draft to see if any teams were sniffing around Wilson.  They knew if he was 6 foot 3 instead of 5 foot 10 and 1/2 inches, he was 1st round grade, but he's not. So they waited a little in the pick. Eventually, Seahawk's ignored height and took him in middle of round three.  And he delivered on the Super Bowl within 5 years promise that Bielema made to the Dolphins.

 

Now, I think Winston has all of the physical tools to be a great NFL QB.  I feel Winston will have a better rookie season than Mariota, unless Marcus ends up in Philly somehow. But I have always worried about Winston's maturity level.  That and his slowness could be his undermining factors.  Marcus needs to learn the system of the team he lands on before worrying about starting (I know that isn't the way with round 1 QB picks anymore), then give him the job at the earliest opportunity once he knows system and playbook extensively.  Long term I think Mariota becomes the better QB, while Winston seems to start off strong, but soon tapers. Winston's maturity and growth in it will determine his floor, or ceiling isn short order.

[Gavin]

"I just don't like his whole makeup, his whole salesman act. He's all about himself."

 

Bingo! That's the same feeling I get when watching Winstons interviews when it came to the Combine and draft

 

Regardless I think both bust

[akcolt]

I would take Mariota no way I put my franchise in Winston's hands.

I'm interested in the kid from South Alabama Bridge maybe the PS see what happens. He would have a couple of descent guys to learn from

I think Hundley could be a nice sleeper in this draft

[NFLfan]

Before I answer the Winston-Mariota question, I want to address just a tad more on Wilson, since your local guy had room to take a shot.

Wilson was/is a MLB level talent. {Now a Rule 5 draft of the Texas Rangers} Even though it was apparent to MLB teams Wilson was slated for the NFL (unlike the media heads on TV at the time) they still drafted him. And Wilson played minor league ball in addition to college football. The NC State HC Tom O'Brien was not approving of the duel sports (like Jameis Winston was doing at FL State), and he let Wilson know he was no longer wanted- and that was a big part of the decision. Since Wilson had graduated, he could transfer without sitting out a year. Choices- Auburn or Wisconsin. He became a Badger because, Wisconsin ran a Pro set, and they had huge O linemen. He had a great year and lost to Oregon in the Rose Bowl 45-38.

Story time- Arkansas head coach (who was Wisconsin coach in 2012 with Wilson) Bret Bielema was interviewing for the Dolphins job. During the process, he promises Phin brass a Super Bowl within 5 years if the draft Russell Wilson, the 5' 10 QB from Wisconsin, and in at least round 2 (where he felt was their last chance to get him). They felt he was 100% certifiable crazy. They had same thoughts as Kiper and other media analysts, as they said He's undersized. He can't throw. Bielema said, OK, all right,' and honestly, that day, kind of pulled himself out of the HC job. He couldn't work for a group that wasn't on the same page.And Phins took Tannehill with #8 overall pick.

Then, Seattle's Schneider visited Bielema/Wilson four times during his senior season, but was very low-key as to not tip his hand. While most scouts wanted the measurables, Bielema says Schneider asked different questions. What did he do best in the locker room? What kind of a leader was he in practice? Then he texted Bielema in second round of draft to see if any teams were sniffing around Wilson. They knew if he was 6 foot 3 instead of 5 foot 10 and 1/2 inches, he was 1st round grade, but he's not. So they waited a little in the pick. Eventually, Seahawk's ignored height and took him in middle of round three. And he delivered on the Super Bowl within 5 years promise that Bielema made to the Dolphins.

Now, I think Winston has all of the physical tools to be a great NFL QB. I feel Winston will have a better rookie season than Mariota, unless Marcus ends up in Philly somehow. But I have always worried about Winston's maturity level. That and his slowness could be his undermining factors. Marcus needs to learn the system of the team he lands on before worrying about starting (I know that isn't the way with round 1 QB picks anymore), then give him the job at the earliest opportunity once he knows system and playbook extensively. Long term I think Mariota becomes the better QB, while Winston seems to start off strong, but soon tapers. Winston's maturity and growth in it will determine his floor, or ceiling isn short order.

Great stuff as usual. I read a lot but much of what you wrote about Wilson I had not read or heard of. Thank you.

BTW, the local guy is someone you have probably heard of: Mike Francesa. He does not like Wilson but loves Glennon.

[NewColtsFan]

If you could somehow manage to build a quarterback with the best of Winston and the best of Mariotta,  you might have a QB that might be nearly, possibly, almost, maybe, but ultimately not quite as good as Andrew Luck!     

[NewColtsFan]

Oh, I am sure some liked Wilson but Luck was viewed as far more superior than almost all the QBs, except maybe RG3 who came close. I like Wilson a lot, but back then he was not on Luck's level. So, it is interesting that there was a poll that asked execs to choose between those two. The only explanation that I could think of is that this is a Milwaukee paper and Wilson played at Wisconsin... I do recall draft experts talking about Wilson's height. Some dismissed him completely, I believe. (I may be wrong.)

I'm interested to see what these same execs thought of last year's group of QBs. Maybe NCF has an article about it.

 

 

Your wish is my command.    I was able to find it pretty quickly.....    Just click on it...   and be sure to read to the bottom where the poll results are....

 

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/nfl-insiders-split-on-outlook-for-johnny-football-as-draft-approaches-b99258607z1-257585891.html

[Deano1818]

Winston is a headcase in my opinion

 

The stealing of food, his "event" with the girl.......

 

Ryan Leaf II

 

 

He is a cocky guy that the rest of the team, in the pro's arent going to put up with 

 

 

BUST!

[ColtsBlueFL]

Great stuff as usual. I read a lot but much of what you wrote about Wilson I had not read or heard of. Thank you.

BTW, the local guy is someone you have probably heard of: Mike Francesa. He does not like Wilson but loves Glennon.

 

Yes, I have heard that name, but can't remember anything (pro or con) about his writings. Wilson and the Seahawks remember how badly they were panned for their 2012 draft.  Seems everybody was bashing them, especially the Wilson pick the day after they trade for Matt Flynn. People laughing at Pete Carroll and saying he continues to prove why it (NFL head coach job) didn't work the first time around either.  But it turns out that 2012 draft was the springboard for turning around a sub .500 team into a Super Bowl champion and front runner. Here's a great article-

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24433089/russell-wilson-remembers-people-ripping-seahawks-2012-draft-class

[DougDew]

IMO, neither QB will be a bust.

[NFLfan]

Yes, I have heard that name, but can't remember anything (pro or con) about his writings. Wilson and the Seahawks remember how badly they were panned for their 2012 draft. Seems everybody was bashing them, especially the Wilson pick the day after they trade for Matt Flynn. People laughing at Pete Carroll and saying he continues to prove why it (NFL head coach job) didn't work the first time around either. But it turns out that 2012 draft was the springboard for turning around a sub .500 team into a Super Bowl champion and front runner. Here's a great article-

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24433089/russell-wilson-remembers-people-ripping-seahawks-2012-draft-class

The draft experts are eating crow. In retrospect, that was a great draft. I hope I will be saying the same about my team's 2014 draft. I still can't believe how many people thought Bridgewater would be a bust. That last article posted by NCF last night is another reminder of what people thought of him and how high many people were on Manziel. We will not know for many years who the best QB was but so far it surely does not appear that it will be Manziel.

I hope both Winston and Mariota have good careers.

[DougDew]

The draft experts are eating crow. In retrospect, that was a great draft. I hope I will be saying the same about my team's 2014 draft. I still can't believe how many people thought Bridgewater would be a bust. That last article posted by NCF last night is another reminder of what people thought of him and how high many people were on Manziel. We will not know for many years who the best QB was but so far it surely does not appear that it will be Manziel.

I hope both Winston and Mariota have good careers.

To be fair, I don't think Bridgewater was ever thought of as bust material. I think the knock on him was that he had a limited ceiling (almost reaching it in college as he was regarded as the most pro-ready QB in that draft) and he was slight of build, which exposed him to frequent injury (ala Sam Bradford).

I think Manziel had the higher ceiling. Sometimes, I think GMs like to try to hit a homerun with their picks...gamble on someone living up to their potential...rather than taking a surer thing.

[NFLfan]

To be fair, I don't think Bridgewater was ever thought of as bust material. I think the knock on him was that he had a limited ceiling (almost reaching it in college as he was regarded as the most pro-ready QB in that draft) and he was slight of build, which exposed him to frequent injury (ala Sam Bradford).

I think Manziel had the higher ceiling. Sometimes, I think GMs like to try to hit a homerun with their picks...gamble on someone living up to their potential...rather than taking a surer thing.

I can appreciate your statement. However, Manziel is not that much bigger than Bridgewater; in fact, he may be smaller. Also, given that Bridgewater's stock declined only after his pro day, that makes me believe that it was not his slight build that these experts were concerned about. Many said he had a weak arm (Superman ;)) and believed he could not make some deep throws. Many also said that because he was soft-spoken, he could not be a leader. Even Mike Zimmer said he was concerned about that. He isn't anymore. Anyway, many out there did believe Bridgewater would not have much of an NFL career. Many still believe that.

I am thankful, as Teddy is, of that Pro Day because without it, he would not have been available for the Vikes to draft him. Lol.

[NFLfan]

Your wish is my command. I was able to find it pretty quickly..... Just click on it... and be sure to read to the bottom where the poll results are....

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/nfl-insiders-split-on-outlook-for-johnny-football-as-draft-approaches-b99258607z1-257585891.html

Thanks for searching for and posting that article. Unfortunately it is mostly about Manziel.

I enjoyed the following article about the 2014 QB class. It is a very good read. It is balanced, giving the positives and negatives of all the players.

Here is some of what he had to say about Bridgewater:

"In a league in which the best quarterbacks win before the snap, Bridgewater showed more sustainable traits than any of his rookie classmates. He was accurate, especially on in-breaking routes. He was very calm in the pocket despite poor pass protection. By December, he had cut down on his mental mistakes and started to throw more beauties. His season had an arc to it; you could see his weekly improvement. With the help of Norv Turner, the Vikings' offense looked professional. Bridgewater led the way despite a shaky receiver group."

Title: Re-drafting the 2014 QB class

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487869/article/redrafting-the-2014-quarterback-class

[NewColtsFan]

Thanks for searching for and posting that article. Unfortunately it is mostly about Manziel.

I enjoyed the following article about the 2014 QB class. It is a very good read. It is balanced, giving the positives and negatives of all the players.

Here is some of what he had to say about Bridgewater:

"In a league in which the best quarterbacks win before the snap, Bridgewater showed more sustainable traits than any of his rookie classmates. He was accurate, especially on in-breaking routes. He was very calm in the pocket despite poor pass protection. By December, he had cut down on his mental mistakes and started to throw more beauties. His season had an arc to it; you could see his weekly improvement. With the help of Norv Turner, the Vikings' offense looked professional. Bridgewater led the way despite a shaky receiver group."

Title: Re-drafting the 2014 QB class

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487869/article/redrafting-the-2014-quarterback-class

 

Yes....    I saw that this morning....   it also described Bridgewater as having a high floor,  but perhaps not a very high ceiling.

 

Compared him to Alex Smith and Andy Dalton.

 

I feel bad for Bortles....   J'Ville mishandled him badly and now I'm not confident things will get better for him....

[NFLfan]

Yes.... I saw that this morning.... it also described Bridgewater as having a high floor, but perhaps not a very high ceiling.

Compared him to Alex Smith and Andy Dalton.

I feel bad for Bortles.... J'Ville mishandled him badly and now I'm not confident things will get better for him....

You may have misread. He said Bridgewater's floor was Alex Smith and Andy Dalton. That to me means that is the worst he would be. Here it is:

"Bridgewater's five-game closing December sprint was often brilliant and showed his floor as a mid-range NFL starter like Alex Smith or Andy Dalton. Teddy's arm strength and deep ball accuracy are open questions that could limit his ceiling, but Bridgewater is off to a great start. He has the potential to develop into an upper echelon distributor in the mold of Drew Brees. It would be a surprise if he's not still starting in the league in eight years."

[NewColtsFan]

You may have misread. He said Bridgewater's floor was Alex Smith and Andy Dalton. That to me means that is the worst he would be. Here it is:

"Bridgewater's five-game closing December sprint was often brilliant and showed his floor as a mid-range NFL starter like Alex Smith or Andy Dalton. Teddy's arm strength and deep ball accuracy are open questions that could limit his ceiling, but Bridgewater is off to a great start. He has the potential to develop into an upper echelon distributor in the mold of Drew Brees. It would be a surprise if he's not still starting in the league in eight years."

 

Wow.......   this is the strangest exchange in some time...

 

We just said the same thing and you're telling me we said something different.

 

I said he was compared to Alex Smith and Andy Dalton.

 

You said he was compared to Alex Smith and Andy Dalton.

 

Sorry,  but I don't agree that his ceiling is Drew Brees.      There's nothing that would suggest that.

[NFLfan]

Wow....... this is the strangest exchange in some time...

We just said the same thing and you're telling me we said something different.

I said he was compared to Alex Smith and Andy Dalton.

You said he was compared to Alex Smith and Andy Dalton.

Sorry, but I don't agree that his ceiling is Drew Brees. There's nothing that would suggest that.

I am sorry if you may have taken that as an offense. That was not my intention.

I guess I did not read Rosenthal's statement to be a "comparison". That is why I quoted what he wrote. Alex Smith and Andy Dalton are veterans. If Bridgewater's FLOOR is that, I have no problem. Now if his ceiling is Alex Smith or Dalton, then I would be very disappointed. As you see, Rosenthal also wrote that Bridgewater has the potential to be Drew Brees. I don't read that as him comparing him to Brees. He just said he could develop to be a similar QB.

Again, I apologize if I offended you in any way.

[NewColtsFan]

I am sorry if you may have taken that as an offense. That was not my intention.

I guess I did not read Rosenthal's statement to be a "comparison". That is why I quoted what he wrote. Alex Smith and Andy Dalton are veterans. If Bridgewater's FLOOR is that, I have no problem. Now if his ceiling is Alex Smith or Dalton, then I would be very disappointed. As you see, Rosenthal also wrote that Bridgewater has the potential to be Drew Brees. I don't read that as him comparing him to Brees. He just said he could develop to be a similar QB.

Again, I apologize if I offended you in any way.

 

 No need to apologize....

 

I owe you one....    I see now the point you were making.    Got a bad knight's sleep last night and had trouble following you.

 

I see that the Smith/Dalton comparison was the floor....    I didn't quite get that Brees was the ceiling....   I just disagree with that...  I think that's overly generous.     It may turn out to be that....   I just haven't seen enough yet to get that sense.

 

The confusion was mine....     sorry....

[BOTT]

Before I answer the Winston-Mariota question, I want to address just a tad more on Wilson, since your local guy had room to take a shot. 

 

Wilson was/is a MLB level talent. {Now a Rule 5 draft of the Texas Rangers}  Even though it was apparent to MLB teams Wilson was slated for the NFL (unlike the media heads on TV at the time) they still drafted him.  And Wilson played minor league ball in addition to college football.  The NC State HC Tom O'Brien was not approving of the duel sports (like Jameis Winston was doing at FL State), and he let Wilson know he was no longer wanted- and that was a big part  of the decision.  Since Wilson had graduated, he could transfer without sitting out a year.  Choices- Auburn or Wisconsin.  He became a Badger because, Wisconsin ran a Pro set, and they had huge O linemen. He had a great year and lost to Oregon in the Rose Bowl 45-38.

 

Story time-  Arkansas head coach (who was Wisconsin coach in 2012 with Wilson) Bret Bielema was interviewing for the Dolphins job.  During the process, he promises Phin brass a Super Bowl within 5 years if the draft Russell Wilson, the 5' 10 QB from Wisconsin, and in at least round 2 (where he felt was their last chance to get him).  They felt he was 100% certifiable crazy. They had same thoughts as Kiper and other media analysts, as they said He's undersized. He can't throw. Bielema said, OK, all right,' and honestly, that day, kind of pulled himself out of the HC job. He couldn't work for a group that wasn't on the same page.And Phins took Tannehill with #8 overall pick.

 

Then, Seattle's Schneider visited Bielema/Wilson four times during his senior season, but was very low-key as to not tip his hand. While most scouts wanted the measurables, Bielema says Schneider asked different questions. What did he do best in the locker room? What kind of a leader was he in practice? Then he texted Bielema in second round of draft to see if any teams were sniffing around Wilson.  They knew if he was 6 foot 3 instead of 5 foot 10 and 1/2 inches, he was 1st round grade, but he's not. So they waited a little in the pick. Eventually, Seahawk's ignored height and took him in middle of round three.  And he delivered on the Super Bowl within 5 years promise that Bielema made to the Dolphins.

 

Now, I think Winston has all of the physical tools to be a great NFL QB.  I feel Winston will have a better rookie season than Mariota, unless Marcus ends up in Philly somehow. But I have always worried about Winston's maturity level.  That and his slowness could be his undermining factors.  Marcus needs to learn the system of the team he lands on before worrying about starting (I know that isn't the way with round 1 QB picks anymore), then give him the job at the earliest opportunity once he knows system and playbook extensively.  Long term I think Mariota becomes the better QB, while Winston seems to start off strong, but soon tapers. Winston's maturity and growth in it will determine his floor, or ceiling isn short order.

I heard it was actually Darrell Bevell, a Wisconsin grad, who was the driving force behind Seattle drafting Wilson. I think Carroll was even quoted calling Wilson "Bevell's project".

[ColtsBlueFL]

Wow.......   this is the strangest exchange in some time...

 

We just said the same thing and you're telling me we said something different.

 

I said he was compared to Alex Smith and Andy Dalton.

 

You said he was compared to Alex Smith and Andy Dalton.

 

Sorry,  but I don't agree that his ceiling is Drew Brees.      There's nothing that would suggest that.

 

 

In a most generic way, yes that is what it says.  But if you read between the line a little bit, it says Bridgewater is already at Alex Smith and Andy Dalton level, and won't be any worse.  But those guys have been around , and Bridgewater is still on a steep learning curve. So while Smith and Dalton's ceilings are pretty much set, Bridgewater can still grow well beyond in the next few years.  But, if for some reason, he does not then he'll at least be on par with those two.   Not that he is and where he will continue to be.

 

If Teddy makes it into year 3, history says his numbers will increase by a significant amount.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I heard it was actually Darrell Bevell, a Wisconsin grad, who was the driving force behind Seattle drafting Wilson. I think Carroll was even quoted calling Wilson "Bevell's project".

 

Yes, he was involved and being a badger, did a lot of research.  But it was all of the Seahawks buying in.  I finally found an article the sums up all of the items covers before, instead of submitting 3 or 4 separate links.  (if slightly less detailed in spots) -

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/28/bevell-says-seahawks-didnt-think-about-height-when-drafting-wilson/

 

Good discussion!  Enjoy.

 

OK, 2 links-

 

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25012806/conflict-over-drafting-russell-wilson-kept-bret-bielema-from-dolphins

[BlueShoe]

If I needed a quarterback then I would do whatever I could within reason to draft Mariota.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Winston= BOOOM times 10

Mariota= Bust times 5

Well as long as it's only a level 5 then we aren't doing too bad.

[pacolts56]

I heard it was actually Darrell Bevell, a Wisconsin grad, who was the driving force behind Seattle drafting Wilson. I think Carroll was even quoted calling Wilson "Bevell's project".

Interesting tidbit...and it connects some dots.

It was a great call on Draft Day for them....but Bevell should have told "Bevell's project" to hand the ball off to Lynch.

[pacolts56]

I wouldn't draft Mariota in Round 1....and I wouldn't draft Winston at all.