ref's grades

[B~Town]

They were talking about ref getting graded during the game last night I'm assuming by the NFL at some level is there anywhere to see the results ? They are a few games I would like to look at if possible because the refs in those games were horrible I would like to see how they graded out compared to other games .

[Cynjin]

I don't believe that those grades are made public.

[thedude]

They were talking about ref getting graded during the game last night I'm assuming by the NFL at some level is there anywhere to see the results ? They are a few games I would like to look at if possible because the refs in those games were horrible I would like to see how they graded out compared to other games .

To some, usually fans of a losing team, the refs are always horrible.  Many fans first blame the officials for any and every loss.  I'll bet some think the refs did a horrible job in their team's loss, but were quite fair, consistent and did a great job that same team's wins. 

[Derakynn]

There is fan bias, and then there is the refs being truly awful, IE Eagles Game, Bengals Game last year. And I doubt the grades are made public. Probably so they can just wallow in their crap for 30 years. The NFL barely fires any refs, no matter how bad they are. They just don't get their consolation prize of reffing the playoffs. 

[ColtJ82]

Personally, watching a number of different games over the last weeks, I have felt the overall quality of officiating has been extremely poor......extremely. I will use the Seattle/Denver game as an example....I actually had money on the Seahawks, but thought it was ludicrous what their DBs were allowed to get away with on a consistent basis.

 

Also, the overturned call of a player lined up in the neutral zone was just absurd. 

 

I swear its like the NFLs version of "computer assistance" in Madden.

[thedude]

Personally, watching a number of different games over the last weeks, I have felt the overall quality of officiating has been extremely poor......extremely. I will use the Seattle/Denver game as an example....I actually had money on the Seahawks, but thought it was ludicrous what their DBs were allowed to get away with on a consistent basis.

 

Also, the overturned call of a player lined up in the neutral zone was just absurd. 

 

I swear its like the NFLs version of "computer assistance" in Madden.

And I'll bet someone else could give specific examples of how the officiating appeared to favor Denver. 

[ColtJ82]

And I'll bet someone else could give specific examples of how the officiating appeared to favor Denver. 

In general, I don't think the officiating has favored anyone in the games I watched this season.....though the calls I mentioned above did favor Seattle. Again, I had money on the chickens so I wasn't pulling for the Broncos. It's my opinion that officiating has been very poor overall across the board. I'm not sure if there are too many rules, the rules are too complex, the game is too fast, there aren't enough eyes......whatever. It has just been bad (for the last few years, really).

[Dr. Guildo]

The refs don't play favorites they flat out suck in most cases. There have been plays like in the San Fran vs. Dallas game when holding was called on a player who never touched the guy he moved a certain way then bang flags were flying. The NFL should handle the refs the same as player by making all info visible and bad calls worthy of fines.

[crazycolt1]

I think the NFL should let the coaches have a couple of replays just for mistakes being made. Maybe make penalties challengeable? Like the horse collar calls? I know they all cant be challenged but at least let a head coach have one or two a game. There use to be no red flag and it seems to have worked out.

[amfootball]

I really believe subjective calls like roughing the passer, hitting a defenseless receiver and PI should be allowed to be reviewed. These calls change the outcomes of games and many times the video shows clearly that it is or is not a penalty.

[Buck Showalter]

Without the refs, how they gonna "fix" the game???

[B~Town]

I've watched more college football this year and noticed how much better the officiating is there in the NCAA it really made me wonder why is it so bad in NFL . Reviews that are obvious being called wrong whistles blown early phantom PI it's ridiculous at times .  

[Cynjin]

I've watched more college football this year and noticed how much better the officiating is there in the NCAA it really made me wonder why is it so bad in NFL . Reviews that are obvious being called wrong whistles blown early phantom PI it's ridiculous at times .

IMO it would help if they had full time refs.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Refs grades are internal to the NFL and are used to reward high performers with assignments like the post season and Super Bowl.

 

As far as Illegal Contact reference, with 3 games complete, there have been 28 accepted Illegal Contact calls. There were only 38 called all year last season.

 

Indy has 3 of those 28.  16 teams do not have a single one.

[Superman]

Refs grades are internal to the NFL and are used to reward high performers with assignments like the post season and Super Bowl.

 

As far as Illegal Contact reference, with 3 games complete, there have been 28 accepted Illegal Contact calls. There were only 38 called all year last season.

 

Indy has 3 of those 28.  16 teams do not have a single one.

 

Is that just illegal contact beyond five yards? What about within five yards? What about defensive holding? Just curious what the full numbers look like, but I don't get the sense that there's been a huge number of calls this season so far. Nothing like the doomsday people were expecting after the first couple of preseason games.

[Superman]

To some, usually fans of a losing team, the refs are always horrible.  Many fans first blame the officials for any and every loss.  I'll bet some think the refs did a horrible job in their team's loss, but were quite fair, consistent and did a great job that same team's wins. 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Is that just illegal contact beyond five yards? What about within five yards? What about defensive holding? Just curious what the full numbers look like, but I don't get the sense that there's been a huge number of calls this season so far. Nothing like the doomsday people were expecting after the first couple of preseason games.

 

Contact is legal within 5 yards, and even can lockup all the way thorough it.  They can extend that beyond 5 if determined offense is blocking.Otherwise defender must disengage at the 5 yd mark. What a D cannot do is bump jam and release off a receiver off the line, and then do it again (whether inside or or outside the 5 yards window).  So this is IC beyond 5 yards.  Here are the IC, defensive holding, and Pass Interference calls over 2012, 2013, and so far in 2014-

 

Numbers through 3 games 2014 compared to 2013 and 2012-

Year      Games        IC         DH         PI

2012        16          68         153        253

2013        16          38         181        247

2014         3           28         46         47

[Superman]

Contact is legal within 5 yards, and even can lockup all the way thorough it. They can extend that beyond 5 if determined offense is blocking.Otherwise defender must disengage at the 5 yd mark. What a D cannot do is bump jam and release off a receiver off the line, and then do it again (whether inside or or outside the 5 yards window). So this is IC beyond 5 yards. Here are the IC, defensive holding, and Pass Interference calls over 2012, 2013, and so far in 2014-

Numbers through 3 games 2014 compared to 2013 and 2012-

Year Games IC DH PI

2012 16 68 153 253

2013 16 38 181 247

2014 3 28 46 47

Can't grab and hold within five yards. It's illegal contact.

I misunderstood your previous post. I thought you were saying that there were 38 IC calls in the first three weejs in 2013, but that's all year. Yeah, that's a huge year to year difference, on pace for nearly 160 calls this season. Holding and PI are up also, but not nearly as much.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Can't grab and hold within five yards. It's illegal contact.

I misunderstood your previous post. I thought you were saying that there were 38 IC calls in the first three weejs in 2013, but that's all year. Yeah, that's a huge year to year difference, on pace for nearly 160 calls this season. Holding and PI are up also, but not nearly as much.

 

Of course, can't grab and hold. That is and will be called Defensive Holding.

 

A defensive player may not tackle or hold an opponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms, or body only to defend or protect himself against an obstructing opponent. A receiver is considered an obstructing opponent up to 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Any defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact with a receiver within the five yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender.

 

The Delta on Illegal Contact calls are way up, the other two within previous results mean.  I'm keeping an eye, but someone here told me it wouldn't go up more than 10%, and I said more than 20%.  Looks like a lot more than either right now.

[Superman]

Of course, can't grab and hold. That is and will be called Defensive Holding.

 

A defensive player may not tackle or hold an opponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms, or body only to defend or protect himself against an obstructing opponent. A receiver is considered an obstructing opponent up to 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Any defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact with a receiver within the five yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender.

 

The Delta on Illegal Contact calls are way up, the other two within previous results mean.  I'm keeping an eye, but someone here told me it wouldn't go up more than 10%, and I said more than 20%.  Looks like a lot more than either right now.

 

http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf

 

ILLEGAL CONTACT WITHIN FIVE YARDS OF LINE 

 Within the five-yard zone, a defender may not make original contact in the back of a receiver, nor may he use 

 his hands or arms to hang onto or encircle a receiver. The defender cannot extend an arm(s) to cut off or 

 hook a receiver causing contact that impedes and restricts the receiver as the play develops, nor may he 

 maintain contact after the receiver has moved beyond a point that is even with the defender. 

ILLEGAL CONTACT BEYOND FIVE-YARD ZONE 

 Beyond the five-yard zone, if the player who receives the snap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender 

 may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a 

 receiver. If the receiver attempts to evade the defender, the defender cannot chuck him, or extend an 

 arm(s) to cut off or hook him, causing contact that redirects, restricts, or impedes the receiver in any way. 

 

 

Grab, hold, impede contact, etc., it technically all falls under the defensive holding rule. But some contact that would be illegal contact is not once the QB leaves the pocket or loses the ball, but might still be considered holding. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf

 

 

Grab, hold, impede contact, etc., it technically all falls under the defensive holding rule. But some contact that would be illegal contact is not once the QB leaves the pocket or loses the ball, but might still be considered holding. 

 

Most of the calls impeding a receiver with an arm or hooking a player gets a holding call I'd expect if a DB pushes a guy in the back within that 5 yard cushion as he goes by, that might draw an illegal contact call.  Most others I've seen, again, get the defensive holding call.  I think the NFL wants to refine illegal contact to infractions outside 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.  And those are up.  Holding seems on pace, as does P.I.  But your case does bring up that it wasn't illegal contact, but might have been holding.  Hmmmm.....

[Superman]

Most of the calls impeding a receiver with an arm or hooking a player gets a holding call I'd expect if a DB pushes a guy in the back within that 5 yard cushion as he goes by, that might draw an illegal contact call.  Most others I've seen, again, get the defensive holding call.  I think the NFL wants to refine illegal contact to infractions outside 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.  And those are up.  Holding seems on pace, as does P.I.  But your case does bring up that it wasn't illegal contact, but might have been holding.  Hmmmm.....

 

There's also different determinations on punts and field goals, but that's obviously not what we're talking about. I would expect the year to year on defensive holding to be pretty close, so the vast majority of the variance is surely on passing plays.

[SteelCityColt]

IMO it would help if they had full time refs.

 

This...

 

The dichotomy of having a Multi Billion "product" (that is the games), in the hands of what are in effect amateurs with little or now open accountability is bizarre. Make Refs professionals and like all professionals make them train and practice. Nothing annoys me more than a Ref stumbling over a announcing a call, sure we all get tongue tied, but sometimes it comes across as if the Refs themselves don't know the rules fully.

 

You've got a set piece game, 29 billion cameras covering the action in HD, 48 refs on the field and yet IMO the standard of refereeing is still pretty poor.*

 

*Hyperbole included

[oldunclemark]

I don't believe that those grades are made public.

and that's a good thing..for the safety of those refs

[ColtsBlueFL]

This...

 

The dichotomy of having a Multi Billion "product" (that is the games), in the hands of what are in effect amateurs with little or now open accountability is bizarre. Make Refs professionals and like all professionals make them train and practice. Nothing annoys me more than a Ref stumbling over a announcing a call, sure we all get tongue tied, but sometimes it comes across as if the Refs themselves don't know the rules fully.

 

You've got a set piece game, 29 billion cameras covering the action in HD, 48 refs on the field and yet IMO the standard of refereeing is still pretty poor.*

 

*Hyperbole included

 

one of the hardest job s to get...

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/story/2012/09/19/path-to-becoming-nfl-referee-is-usually-long/57809626/1