NF Playing Hardball with Former Referees...

[NewColtsFan]

There are 9 former referees who work for the NFL. As part of their job, they help train newer officials.

As you may know, the NFL and current officials are involved in a nasty and protracted labor dispute.

So, the NFL wanted the former refs to help train the replacement refs. The former refs said 'no.'

They NFL has apparently fired them. I say apparently because it's not clear, nor official. They've received no notice. But they've been asked to turn in special computers they were given, etc.

The story explains more if you're interested.

NOTE: This story has been very under-reported. The refs who will handle NFL games this year are not NFL quality refs. Which could make for some incredibly badly refereed games.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-nfl-fires-jerry-markbreit-20120720,0,1663717.story?track=rss

[Gavin]

Some of the rules are poorly written, on top of that, new officials, this may be an ugly season beyond just records

[Vltrophy1]

IMO if the NFL allows these inadequate refs to ref not only will a team win when they should've lost b/c of several bad mis-calls but the fans will be totally enraged w/the NFL for allowing this to happen. The NFL has a responsibility to have the best game possible for their fans. They will be giving us a bad product for more money. That is totally inexcusable!

[shakedownstreet]

hard to believe the nfl can't pay the refs better considering the revenues they enjoy

on the flip side, the last time we had replacement refs, the game was more enjoyable because they were throwing fewer flags

i guess i don't really care unless this can somehow benefit the horseshoe

[ReMeDy]

At least it will add to our YouTube collection of referee hilarity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtSE1fAkux4

My favorite is @ 2:58 and Ed fumbling the calls at @ 1:52

[Kyle]

I'm not so sure new refs is a bad thing. Seems to me like the refs in the past few years have been star struck. Guys like revis get away with a lot.

[JCPatriot]

Doesn't really seem like playing hardball to me. If your job is to train refs, and they ask you to train some refs, and you refuse to train them........well, most people get fired when they refuse to do their job.

[southwest1]

“They wanted us to train the replacements, which we would absolutely not do,” [Jerry] Markbreit said. “We were all officials for 20-plus years .… How could we face our people?"

I don't blame Mr. Markbreit one bit. Why would you agree to outsource your zebra job? It's a catch 22 either way: If you disobey the league, you are fired. If you train new recruits without a new labor agreement for zebras with a full, 401K pension plan in place, you are guaranteeing your professional demise along with weakened and watered down benefits.

Every season the league adopts new NFL rules which the zebras must learn and pass on to all 32 coaching staffs. The NFL is a multi-billion dollar annual business. Pay well for quality control otherwise this fantastic game will suffer at the worst possible time at a critical juncture in the Playoffs. If we loss a vital game based on a horrible call, I will be bleeping furious! There is no substitute for experience either in coaches, players, or zebras.

[MIColtsFan]

I hope whatever happens gets worked out before the season and doesn't drag out during...

[Vltrophy1]

In case u guys haven't heard they're talking about allowing a woman on the field as a ref. I totally disagree. Not being sexist I just believe that a woman has no place on the football field as a ref.

[DILLIGAFER]

I said it once I will say it again.

Are you serious? I dont know too many Men that could whoop my butt. 5'8 160lbs of farm girl butt kickin muscles. I have boxed, wrestled, played football, fast pitch, former LE, Military training, I do solo backpacking Elk hunts at 10,000+ ft. So dont think for one second a woman cant handle herself on a football field. As long as she is fit, knowledgeable, and fair, why not?

Heck, I'm interested, where do I sign the contract to ref? NFL, BRING IT ON!

[southwest1]

In case u guys haven't heard they're talking about allowing a woman on the field as a ref. I totally disagree. Not being sexist I just believe that a woman has no place on the football field as a ref.

Whoa there Vltrophy1. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but from my perspective, women are exceptionally intelligent, highly capable, and can easily master any sport. Why not let female zebras on the NFL football field? I have zero problems with that myself. Why not?

Just out of curiosity Vltrophy1, what is your justification for not allowing it exactly? Feel free to articulate your position...

[southwest1]

I said it once I will say it again.

Are you serious? I dont know too many Men that could whoop my butt. 5'8 160lbs of farm girl butt kickin muscles. I have boxed, wrestled, played football, fast pitch, former LE, Military training, I do solo backpacking Elk hunts at 10,000+ ft. So dont think for one second a woman cant handle herself on a football field. As long as she is fit, knowledgeable, and fair, why not?

Heck, I'm interested, where do I sign the contract to ref? NFL, BRING IT ON!

Mannings the man remind me to never cross you or underestimate your drive, determination, and tenacity okay. I'd give you a zebra NFL shot easy with no hesitation whatsoever.

[JCPatriot]

Not being sexist I just believe that a woman has no place on the football field as a ref.

I'm not being racist, I just believe that an Asian has no place on the football field.

Hmmmm..... Yeah, that's what I thought. I had to try it out in print just to be sure, but starting the sentence with "I'm not being racist" didn't make it any less racist.

[DILLIGAFER]

Mannings the man remind me to never cross you or underestimate your drive, determination, and tenacity okay. I'd give you a zebra NFL shot easy with no hesitation whatsoever.

, I have fun man! My hubby always supports me no matter what crazy adventure I want to pursue. He didnt even follow football till he met me. being raised on a farm changes the way most women lead their lives. ;)

[NewColtsFan]

I'm not being racist, I just believe that an Asian has no place on the football field.

Hmmmm..... Yeah, that's what I thought. I had to try it out in print just to be sure, but starting the sentence with "I'm not being racist" didn't make it any less racist.

I'm sorry, but I don't think the 'race' angle and the 'sex' angle are analogous.....

Any race can do anything, no matter what it is.

And yes, any sex can (within physical limitations) but only **if** they have the experience and background.

Are there are lot of women referees? Not that I'm aware of. What level of football have they refereed? High School? Low level college? Mid-level? High level of college? I think you're getting the picture here.

Football is not the same at every level. Some rules are different. Some interpretations are different. The speed and pressure of the game are dramatically different. A woman could likely do it, but only **if** she's been a ref at the next highest level... BCS college level.

Just my

[DILLIGAFER]

I'm sorry, but I don't think the 'race' angle and the 'sex' angle are analogous.....

Any race can do anything, no matter what it is.

And yes, any sex can (within physical limitations) but only **if** they have the experience and background.

Are there are lot of women referees? Not that I'm aware of. What level of football have they refereed? High School? Low level college? Mid-level? High level of college? I think you're getting the picture here.

Football is not the same at every level. Some rules are different. Some interpretations are different. The speed and pressure of the game are dramatically different. A woman could likely do it, but only **if** she's been a ref at the next highest level... BCS college level.

Just my

Now what you said there at the bottom makes it sound like a woman couldnt learn it because its so different. What makes a man so much smarter or better equipt to learn it? There is no 'likely' here. A woman CAN do it. Period.

I see no reason why a good, smart, knowledgeable, fit woman cannot ref. You cant spin it any other way but sexist.

[NewColtsFan]

Now what you said there at the bottom makes it sound like a woman couldnt learn it because its so different. What makes a man so much smarter or better equipt to learn it? There is no 'likely' here. A woman CAN do it. Period.

I see no reason why a good, smart, knowledgeable, fit woman cannot ref. You cant spin it any other way but sexist.

Fine. Take out the word 'likely'... and then finish it. No sexism at all.

When a women has worked her way up through the ranks and is somehow still denied a place as an NFL referee **then** you can call it sexist.... otherwise.... Sorry, I don't see it.

And it's certainly not the same as the racist claim another poster made...

[southwest1]

I'm sorry, but I don't think the 'race' angle and the 'sex' angle are analogous.....

Any race can do anything, no matter what it is.

And yes, any sex can (within physical limitations) but only **if** they have the experience and background.

Are there are lot of women referees? Not that I'm aware of. What level of football have they refereed? High School? Low level college? Mid-level? High level of college? I think you're getting the picture here.

Football is not the same at every level. Some rules are different. Some interpretations are different. The speed and pressure of the game are dramatically different. A woman could likely do it, but only **if** she's been a ref at the next highest level... BCS college level.

Just my

NewColtsFan,

Is your problem with female zebras on the football field veiled sexism couched in a "fragile women might get hurt" argument?

Women have had to overcome discrimination all their lives. From acquiring the right to vote in 1920, to emulating "Rosie The Riveter" working in the factory during World War II from 1941-1945, to obtaining college degrees and entering the workforce in late 60's and early '70's onward and striving for equal pay for equal work to that of their male counterpart for the exact same duties and being promoted to high level executive positions of influence and power in the mid 90's and beyond.

Yes of course, certain standards must be met regardless of a person's gender. No one is granting anyone special treatment here. Fairness of opportunity on an equal footing is all I am advocating for personally.

Being physically disabled since birth, I have been exposed to false stereotypes about my intelligence and my capacity to be a productive member of society my whole life. I know discrimination very intimately on a first hand basis. I do not respond well to misguided notions of a person's ability to perform their position effectively based on ill advised perceptions that often are not grounded in fact, experience, or a genuine willingness to grant an individual a fair and equal opportunity to win a highly sought after position. No nepotism here just a level playing field.

I respect your viewpoint NewColtsFan, which may differ from mine, but I am very protective of the ideal of an equal opportunity for all regardless of gender, personal background, creed, disability, or sexual orientation. If you pass rigorous tests and examinations than women just as well as men can transform into proficient, professional zebras on any NFL football field.

If I perceived your thesis incorrectly NewColtsFan, please accept my genuine apology. I like reading your posts and it was not my intent to take your position out of context. I am just trying to ascertain your primary argument comprehensively and completely. Thank you.

[NewColtsFan]

NewColtsFan,

Is your problem with female zebras on the football field veiled sexism couched in a "fragile women might get hurt" argument?

Women have had to overcome discrimination all their lives. From acquiring the right to vote in 1920, to emulating "Rosie The Riveter" working in the factory during World War II from 1941-1945, to obtaining college degrees and entering the workforce in late 60's and early '70's onward and striving for equal pay for equal work to that of their male counterpart for the exact same duties and being promoted to high level executive positions of influence and power in the mid 90's and beyond.

Yes of course, certain standards must be met regardless of a person's gender. No one is granting anyone special treatment here. Fairness of opportunity on an equal footing is all I am advocating for personally.

Being physically disabled since birth, I have been exposed to false stereotypes about my intelligence and my capacity to be a productive member of society my whole life. I know discrimination very intimately on a first hand basis. I do not respond well to misguided notions of a person's ability to perform their position effectively based on ill advised perceptions that often are not grounded in fact, experience, or a genuine willingness to grant an individual a fair and equal opportunity to win a highly sought after position. No nepotism here just a level playing field.

I respect your viewpoint NewColtsFan, which may differ from mine, but I am very protective of the ideal of an equal opportunity for all regardless of gender, personal background, creed, disability, or sexual orientation. If you pass rigorous tests and examinations than women just as well as men can transform into proficient, professional zebras on any NFL football field.

If I perceived your thesis incorrectly NewColtsFan, please accept my genuine apology. I like reading your posts and it was not my intent to take your position out of context. I am just trying to ascertain your primary argument comprehensively and completely. Thank you.

SW....

Sorry, I'll try to be more clear.

I have no problem with women as referees. None. There's at least one in the NBA and she's a perfectly good referee to my knowledge. I have no problem with women as baseball umpires, though I don't think one has made it to the Majors yet. I hope it's only a matter of time.

My objection was to the poster trying to equate this with racism. And I think the comparison was inappropriate.

Women play basketball. Women play softball. But women typically don't play football. So, a woman has to start from zero, from scratch to work her way up and be a referee in football. I'm not aware that any have. Not in the NFL. Not on the college level, though I could easily be wrong, I've just never seen a story about a female referee for football.

I'm sure it will happen someday. I just don't know when that day will happen. Barriers fall. They don't often fall as fast as we want, but they do fall.

Again, to be clear, my only objection was with the comparison to racism. Someday, I'm sure there will be a woman ref in the NFL, and if I'm alive, I'll be happy for her and the NFL.

Hope that clarifies....

[ruksak]

I said it once I will say it again.

Are you serious? I dont know too many Men that could whoop my butt. 5'8 160lbs of farm girl butt kickin muscles. I have boxed, wrestled, played football, fast pitch, former LE, Military training, I do solo backpacking Elk hunts at 10,000+ ft. So dont think for one second a woman cant handle herself on a football field. As long as she is fit, knowledgeable, and fair, why not?

Heck, I'm interested, where do I sign the contract to ref? NFL, BRING IT ON!

It would be a nice change from the typical portrayal of woman in the NFL. The half-naked plastic-chested girlies bouncing around, offering their brand of eye candy to all whom are willing to watch.

And then we have the female sideline reporter offering seemingly arbitrary comments while showcasing her high-fashion jacket and scarf.

Put some women on the field that aren't dressed like showgirls pandering for single dollar bills or nit-wits with $5,000 coats. If they get hurt, I'm sure if they had the fortitude to rise to the level of NFL referee than they can take a punch or two.

[southwest1]

SW....

Sorry, I'll try to be more clear.

I have no problem with women as referees. None. There's at least one in the NBA and she's a perfectly good referee to my knowledge. I have no problem with women as baseball umpires, though I don't think one has made it to the Majors yet. I hope it's only a matter of time.

My objection was to the poster trying to equate this with racism. And I think the comparison was inappropriate.

Women play basketball. Women play softball. But women typically don't play football. So, a woman has to start from zero, from scratch to work her way up and be a referee in football. I'm not aware that any have. Not in the NFL. Not on the college level, though I could easily be wrong, I've just never seen a story about a female referee for football.

I'm sure it will happen someday. I just don't know when that day will happen. Barriers fall. They don't often fall as fast as we want, but they do fall.

Again, to be clear, my only objection was with the comparison to racism. Someday, I'm sure there will be a woman ref in the NFL, and if I'm alive, I'll be happy for her and the NFL.

Hope that clarifies....

NewColtsFan,

Thank you for responding to my inquiry about your previous post. I agree 100% barriers do need to fall and yes they never fall fast enough do they? I usually don't get personal in my posts, but discrimination always strikes a chord with me very close to home. I also appreciate your acknowledgment that the NFL will see a female zebra someday hopefully more than one. Change can be difficult for some to embrace especially in a league dominated by men primarily, but peoples thought processes do evolve over time no question.

Thank you for your clarification remarks. I look forward to numerous other debates, discussions, and discourses with you down the road NewColtsFan as the NFL season progresses.

[JCPatriot]

Again, to be clear, my only objection was with the comparison to racism. Someday, I'm sure there will be a woman ref in the NFL, and if I'm alive, I'll be happy for her and the NFL.

Sorry, I'm not backing down on this one. To be honest, I'm not even sure why we have any disagreement on this. You object to my comparison to racism. Why? It is completely analogous. I responded directly to this statement...

Not being sexist I just believe that a woman has no place on the football field as a ref.

That is a sexist statement, and prefacing the statement with "not being sexist" does not make it any less sexist. You say that when the day eventually comes that the NFL has a qualified, experienced female ref, you will be happy for her and for the NFL. This guy says that there is no place for a woman in that profession regardless of qualification or experience. I don't understand how you could not see that as sexist. It is pretty much as straightforward as sexism gets. It's not veiled or anything.

To illustrate how ridiculously sexist that statement was, I substituted "Asian" for "woman" and "racist" for "sexist." I think pretty much anybody would agree that my statement was blatantly racist, so I don't see how anybody could not see the statement that I was replying to as blatantly sexist. Prefacing the statement with "I'm not being racist" certainly didn't make the statement any less racist.

[NewColtsFan]

Sorry, I'm not backing down on this one. To be honest, I'm not even sure why we have any disagreement on this. You object to my comparison to racism. Why? It is completely analogous. I responded directly to this statement...

That is a sexist statement, and prefacing the statement with "not being sexist" does not make it any less sexist. You say that when the day eventually comes that the NFL has a qualified, experienced female ref, you will be happy for her and for the NFL. This guy says that there is no place for a woman in that profession regardless of qualification or experience. I don't understand how you could not see that as sexist. It is pretty much as straightforward as sexism gets. It's not veiled or anything.

To illustrate how ridiculously sexist that statement was, I substituted "Asian" for "woman" and "racist" for "sexist." I think pretty much anybody would agree that my statement was blatantly racist, so I don't see how anybody could not see the statement that I was replying to as blatantly sexist. Prefacing the statement with "I'm not being racist" certainly didn't make the statement any less racist.

To your first point.... you're quoting me.... I don't think the two are analogous because race doesn't matter. I think most every race is represented in the NFL referees.

To your second point.... I think if someone said I don't think a woman can do the job because she's a woman, yes, I would call that sexist.

As I stated in another post, I'm not against a woman -- any woman -- becoming an NFL referee. But it's going to be a hard, long road to get there. And because it's going to be a long, hard road to get there I think it's going to be a long, long time before this happens. So, a women's sex makes it less likely that we're going to see one, or several become NFL referees. It's as much cultural as sexual.

Hope that clarifies....

[Gavin]

I wanted to wait for a while to give my opinion after I saw that someone put that a woman has no place being a ref on the football field, Personally I disagree and I will give reasons.

1.If a woman loves the sport and knows the game and isn't just doing it for womens rights everywhere but is doing it for herself instead then I say let her do it, Do I think that there are very few things a woman should not do? yes but it has nothing to do with not physically being able to, for example going to war, I dont believe a woman should be on the front lines NOT because she cant handle it (Many or some can) but simply because women are the givers and bearers of life but back on topic, women should be allowed to be a ref, I actually look forward to the day when its not a big deal for a woman to be a ref or a race car driver or so on because its not a huge deal in my opinion, Now with that said I am not all for mixing women and men together in sports

[JCPatriot]

I don't think the two are analogous because race doesn't matter.

Just like sex doesn't matter. You see, that's what makes it analogous.

To your second point.... I think if someone said I don't think a woman can do the job because she's a woman, yes, I would call that sexist.

Then just what exactly do you think somebody is saying when they say "a woman has no place on the football field as a ref" if they're not saying what you just said? True, it's not the exact same words, but it is pretty much the same message.

It's as much cultural as sexual.

You mean sexist, not sexual. But anyway, the distinction between culture and sexism that you make is completely artificial. Sexism is a cultural phenomenon just as racism is a cultural phenomenon. We had to change the cultural acceptance of racism in order to chip away at racist practices just as we had to change the cultural acceptance of sexism in order to chip away at sexist practices. Both are still ongoing processes. Any barrier to a profession that is based on gender and not on ability, skill, or qualification is a sexist barrier regardless of what you want to call it. Calling it a cultural barrier is just a semantics trick to try to mask the reality. Yes, it is cultural, but sexism is cultural at its roots.

[Fx Stryker]

These replacement refs are really up the PHI vs PIT game. Blowing so many calls. The commentator said some are even HS football refs.

[Thewholefnshow28]

In case u guys haven't heard they're talking about allowing a woman on the field as a ref. I totally disagree. Not being sexist I just believe that a woman has no place on the football field as a ref.

Why do they have no place on the football field? Seriously, if you are going to make a sexist statement like this you should probably back it up with why they have no place on the football field. If the woman is trained and knows the rules then why not let her ref the game? Of course the physical difference will be brought up, but how many of the guy refs now could handle a hit? Maybe one or two?

Also leading off your statement with I am not being sexist, racist, prejudice typically leads to a racist, sexist, or prejudice comment.

All I know is from the performances I have watched the NFL referees will be having the NFL begging to have them back after week 1. They hold all of the power because if the performance in these past games are any indication of what ti will be like week 1 social media and the blogosphere will be blowing up with anger.