Doesn't Feel like BPA/Need - These Picks Seem Strategic...

[Bleedin Blue]

In my mind today revealed a lot about this coaching staff and GM. For weeks we've been debating here if Pagano and Grigson would focus on building a "Raven-like" defense here in Indy starting this year. I think many of us took for granted that this would happen...largely because we felt our defense was so bad.

They've known for weeks (months) that they were going to be drafting Luck. I'm sure that the coaching staff was well aware that Luck had little to work with here so their plan was to surround Andrew with quality support. Not only did they do that today, but they seem to have built a receiving corp that is both similar to what Andrew used with Stanford but also better.

Since we already had possesion receivers in Wayne and Collie they went the other route and got the two best pass-catching TEs in the draft much like NE had done. If they play as well as the Gronk/Hernandez pair then this will create matchup nightmares.. Not only that but the pickup of T.Y. Hilton is clearly aimed at having a guy that can force the secondary to cover more ground and "take the top off" by pushing the safeties back. Now obviously these guys can't all be on the field at once, but rotationally, they can cause all kinds of substitution problems for opposing defenses.

Now tomorrow might have us going all defense...which I'm very hopeful to see, but that may mean that they have identified key players later in the draft with the qualities they wanted all along. I'm also going out on a limb here and saying that they must have felt better about our defensive players than a lot of us did. Perhaps Pagano and company also feel that they can get more value by selecting defensive players later in the draft and "coaching them up"...something they can do better than with the offensive players.

[coltsblue1844]

My opinion is that Grigson/Pagano/Ariens know a LOT more about how to build a football team than anyone on this message board...

I also think that some people would complain about who we pick, regardless of who it is.

[ruksak]

It was explained by Grigs that they went with a purely BPA angle. Yet I have to feel that this moniker of 'BPA' had an asterisk. That asterisk indicated "BPA offensive weapons". If Fleener was gone, they were taking Allen @ TE. Turns out, they got both.

[bahhummbug]

In my mind today revealed a lot about this coaching staff and GM. For weeks we've been debating here if Pagano and Grigson would focus on building a "Raven-like" defense here in Indy starting this year. I think many of us took for granted that this would happen...largely because we felt our defense was so bad.

They've known for weeks (months) that they were going to be drafting Luck. I'm sure that the coaching staff was well aware that Luck had little to work with here so their plan was to surround Andrew with quality support. Not only did they do that today, but they seem to have built a receiving corp that is both similar to what Andrew used with Stanford but also better.

Since we already had possesion receivers in Wayne and Collie they went the other route and got the two best pass-catching TEs in the draft much like NE had done. If they play as well as the Gronk/Hernandez pair then this will create matchup nightmares.. Not only that but the pickup of T.Y. Hilton is clearly aimed at having a guy that can force the secondary to cover more ground and "take the top off" by pushing the safeties back. Now obviously these guys can't all be on the field at once, but rotationally, they can cause all kinds of substitution problems for opposing defenses.

Now tomorrow might have us going all defense...which I'm very hopeful to see, but that may mean that they have identified key players later in the draft with the qualities they wanted all along. I'm also going out on a limb here and saying that they must have felt better about our defensive players than a lot of us did. Perhaps Pagano and company also feel that they can get more value by selecting defensive players later in the draft and "coaching them up"...something they can do better than with the offensive players.

Just posted the same on another post,I'm with you Bleedin Blue Pags must like what he has seen so far.Either that or its all Grigs and Pags cannot be blamed.Pags knows alot more than we do,he knows what he needs at every Defensive position the man is a DEF Guru,I'M going to wait and see what rabbit he pulls out for DEF though.Our corners played horrible because of Tampa 2 maybe he sees alot more man cover in them than we do,considering we never get to see that.But I'D really like to see a NT come out of this draft at this point I'd take Kitchen at NT and Harris at CB.Need NT depth Mookie is not the answer.

[bahhummbug]

It was explained by Grigs that they went with a purely BPA angle. Yet I have to feel that this moniker of 'BPA' had an asterisk. That asterisk indicated "BPA offensive weapons". If Fleener was gone, they were taking Allen @ TE. Turns out, they got both.

They also went ST T.Y. averaged like 12 yds.a return would be nice to have that homerun ST player.

[Restored]

We are building an offense similar to that of the Pats and Stanford. Heavy reliance on TE's and usage of speed WR's who can stretch the field off of Play Action.

[BleedingBlue]

I agree that many of us thought that we'd be drafting defensive players and that our FO must thing more of our D (especially corners) than we do.

We're not all going to agree with every pick, but isn't that the purpose of a forum?

[MSColtsFan]

We are building an offense similar to that of the Pats and Stanford. Heavy reliance on TE's and usage of speed WR's who can stretch the field off of Play Action.

Heavy reliance on TEs and usage of speed WRs and play action doesn't describe NE, it describes Pittsburgh.

People keep saying Pats... Steelers. Arians ran the Steelers O, used multiple TEs, no FB... The Colts will not do anything like NE. The personnel groups might be the same on the field, but they won't being doing the same things. Steelers, not Patriots. Almost every team in the NFL uses two TEs - that isn't unique to NE. Remotely.

[MSColtsFan]

I agree that many of us thought that we'd be drafting defensive players and that our FO must thing more of our D (especially corners) than we do.

We're not all going to agree with every pick, but isn't that the purpose of a forum?

Teams tend not to draft D in the same year they take a #1 QB. This draft isn't a surprise to me at all. And to take it a step forward, history also shows this approach sometimes extends to the following year too, at the least using the next draft's first pick on a RB or WR or some other O player. For anyone surprised about the picks this year, it could happen again next year too, at least at the top.

[Jaric]

It's impossible for us as fans to have any idea what their board looked like. You can argue that there may have been a better player available but that doesn't mean that's how Grigson and co had their board set up.

Fleener was projected as a late first/early second TE who we drafted in the early first. Allen was projected as a second/early third rounder who we drafted in the early third. Now, I'll be the first to admit that these "projections" are pretty worthless once you get outside of the top 20-30 picks or so because then teams really diverge on who they view as the BPA. But at the same time as fans it's all we have to go on so that's what I'm going with.

Time will tell. Judging a draft after it happens is really pretty pointless. I'm not going to let that stop me though, I just remember that what really matters is if we drafted players or not. If these guys can play, we're going to call this a good draft. If they can't it won't be. It's just that simple and we won't know that until they take the field.

[Jaric]

Also, keep in mind that the "monster" we're planning to build is not a one year building plan. Next year is when things will really start to come together and we'll get a better picture of what we're going to be watching the next 5-10 years.

So keep that in mind as well.

EDIT: For what it's worth, NFLN is loving what we did. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

[MSColtsFan]

Also, keep in mind that the "monster" we're planning to build is not a one year building plan. Next year is when things will really start to come together and we'll get a better picture of what we're going to be watching the next 5-10 years.

So keep that in mind as well.

EDIT: For what it's worth, NFLN is loving what we did. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

I also see some thinking "monster" had to mean D. Or that it meant ground and pound. I don't recall Pags defining that word when he used it. It was a cute sound bite, but I think people tried to read too much into it, like an Irsay tweet.

Kiper and every other talking head on ESPN likes the Colts picks too. Steve Young, who lives in the Bay Area and spent a lot of time at Stanford and Luck really loves what we did. Other than one Peter King tweet, I haven't seen any negatively, any question about the approach or players. I mean, except for on these boards...

[Restored]

Heavy reliance on TEs and usage of speed WRs and play action doesn't describe NE, it describes Pittsburgh.

People keep saying Pats... Steelers. Arians ran the Steelers O, used multiple TEs, no FB... The Colts will not do anything like NE. The personnel groups might be the same on the field, but they won't being doing the same things. Steelers, not Patriots. Almost every team in the NFL uses two TEs - that isn't unique to NE. Remotely.

The usage of TE's heavily in the passing game is unique to NE in that they execute and use both of them so well. The Steelers also use a variety of formations as well.

[MSColtsFan]

The usage of TE's heavily in the passing game is unique to NE in that they execute and use both of them so well. The Steelers also use a variety of formations as well.

Gronk and Hernandez made up 29% of the Pats receptions. That's a boatload for sure. Niners TEs were at 19%, Ravens TEs 17%, so yes, those two had success, more so than anyone else, and by a large number. I wouldn't call them unique though, I'd call them the most successful. The Niners use Davis and Walker a ton, but Walker lacks the atheticism, and Smith is no Brady.

But only Stafford and Brees threw more passes than Brady. Welker led the NFL in receptions too, so does that make the NE use of WRs unique? Maybe, they've been good for a long time with Brady. The point I think which is the most important is what about Bruce Arians, a rookie QB, two second year Ts (or one, and a G if Ijalana moves), and two rookie TEs makes anyone think the Colts will run anything like NE with Brady? Maybe I'll be wrong, but I really think if Colts fans want to get a glimpse of what the O will look like next year, start looking at the Steelers stats.

[Scott Pennock]

I agree, I think that Pagano/Manusky feel more comfortable with what they have seen from watching film, and participating in the mini-camps prior to the draft (awarded us due to the change in coaching staffs).

Additionally, they may have all scouted our young corners (Powers, Rucker, Thomas) when they were draft eligible and may see more in them than we (as fans) do moving forward.

All starting positions on defense were already covered and with the 4 offensive picks in rounds 1-3 all offensive starting positions are covered. The thing you have to ask yourself, last year were we truly that bad, or did the coaching staff (and to a lesser degree) the players throw in the towel sans Manning?

I beleive that every pick today and the udfa's tomorrow will be all about building depth and finding that 'gem' that could blossum in a year or two!

[buccolts]

It was explained by Grigs that they went with a purely BPA angle. Yet I have to feel that this moniker of 'BPA' had an asterisk. That asterisk indicated "BPA offensive weapons". If Fleener was gone, they were taking Allen @ TE. Turns out, they got both.

I believe BPA will always have an asterisk attached to it.

You can't just pick 10 QBs if that's how it falls.

I can't pretend to know what their setting for BPA is this year, but an example could be to set a max number of players at any given position. When you reach the limit you ignore that position (trade up/down as needed).

[Slick_Rick]

My opinion is that Grigson/Pagano/Ariens know a LOT more about how to build a football team than anyone on this message board...

I also think that some people would complain about who we pick, regardless of who it is.

I just can't believe we picked that Luck guy...He's garbage...just kidding of course.

I trust these guys until they give me a reason not to. They are professionals and know what they need to fit their scheme

[Larry Horseman]

Heavy reliance on TEs and usage of speed WRs and play action doesn't describe NE, it describes Pittsburgh.

People keep saying Pats... Steelers. Arians ran the Steelers O, used multiple TEs, no FB... The Colts will not do anything like NE. The personnel groups might be the same on the field, but they won't being doing the same things. Steelers, not Patriots. Almost every team in the NFL uses two TEs - that isn't unique to NE. Remotely.

Teams tend not to draft D in the same year they take a #1 QB. This draft isn't a surprise to me at all. And to take it a step forward, history also shows this approach sometimes extends to the following year too, at the least using the next draft's first pick on a RB or WR or some other O player. For anyone surprised about the picks this year, it could happen again next year too, at least at the top.

Stop making so much sense. Also, I think everyone has seemed to forget that when Arians was with the Colts, and the couple years after he left, the offense revolved around 2 TE sets. Pollard and Dilger anyone? Did we all forget that the early Manning era was pretty different from the late Manning era in regards to how the offense was actually ran? With Pollard, Dilger, Edge, and Marvin, the play action pass and running game were nearly unstoppable. Also, Luck's college offense (essentially what Harbaugh is running in SF) revolved around multiple TE sets.

I absolutely love this draft. I don't claim to be a scout/talent evaluator (most people on this board seem to think they are), but from a pure position standpoint and drafting to formulate an offensive identity, the FO nailed the first three rounds. The NFL, with the exception of a period during the 70s and 80s, has always been won and lost through passing and stopping the pass. The new regime is well on the way to creating a competitive team.

[Quantum88]

I am cautiously optimistic regarding the draft so far. I think we want to forget that we have so many holes to fill, one draft will not turn this team around. Just as Manning went 3-13 his rookie year, I would not be surprised to see a similar record.

What this draft appears to be focused on is creating the foundation to build an offense on over the next couple of years and, with our big increase in cap space next year, start fixing the defense with more impact players than we have been able to afford in the past.

I truly believe that by 2013 we will be a much stronger team and start making regular runs into the playoffs in 2014.

[LightninMax]

I truly can't anser the OP question, but there is a significant strategic element of having 2 big pass catching tightends. From the same formation, the offense can put 4 recievers into pass patterns as quickly as a spread formation allows or it can focus 7 blockers into a strong forceful running play in any direction.

It certainly makes it easier to exploit a defense that likes to move players in and out of the box prior to and just after the snap.