Is There Any Way the Colts Don't...

[Mackrel829]

Draft a cornerback in the first round this year?

There are like 5 guys projected to go in the 10-20 range, with all five being viewed fairly evenly and with no real stand-out CB1.

 

I really struggle to see the Colts doing anything except drafting a corner in the first round and/or trading back.

 

Any CFB fans watch any of those five guys this year?

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Mackrel829 said:

Draft a cornerback in the first round this year?

There are like 5 guys projected to go in the 10-20 range, with all five being viewed fairly evenly and with no real stand-out CB1.

 

I really struggle to see the Colts doing anything except drafting a corner in the first round and/or trading back.

 

Any CFB fans watch any of those five guys this year?

Drafting a Corner that you might think can become great is a real crap shoot. If a team doesn't nail that pick, it goes as a wasted pick. That might be the hardest position to analyze to tell whether he will be great or a bust.

[Defjamz26]

36 minutes ago, Mackrel829 said:

Draft a cornerback in the first round this year?

There are like 5 guys projected to go in the 10-20 range, with all five being viewed fairly evenly and with no real stand-out CB1.

 

I really struggle to see the Colts doing anything except drafting a corner in the first round and/or trading back.

 

Any CFB fans watch any of those five guys this year?

The corners everyone talks about are:

-Terrion Arnold

-Quinyon Mitchell

-Nate Wiggins

-Cooper DeJean

-Kool Aid McKinstry

 

i think Mitchell and Arnold are the top 2 guys. If they’re both gone, the Colts could take Brian Thomas Jr from LSU. Also if Brock Bowers falls to pick 15, they’d likely take him as well. So why there’s a good chance we take a corner, there’s also a chance they take a TE or WR.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Mackrel829 said:

Draft a cornerback in the first round this year?

There are like 5 guys projected to go in the 10-20 range, with all five being viewed fairly evenly and with no real stand-out CB1.

 

I really struggle to see the Colts doing anything except drafting a corner in the first round and/or trading back.

 

Any CFB fans watch any of those five guys this year?

Sure there is.   If the Ballard/Steichen duo want a WR or a DL, even an OL….  It’s all entirely possible. 
 

Your safest approach is to be open and flexible to possibilities.   Especially this early in the process.   We are two full months away from the draft and there will be a great deal of info that surfaces between now and the draft. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

@NewColtsFan,  really no confusion about it. It is tough to draft a Corner that is a can't miss. If it was easy Ballard would have done it by now. I am about getting to the QB with Pass Rushers and giving AR the best weapons possible. I would trust a player like Bowers over any CB coming out.

[Archer]

Lots of ways we can go in this draft.  I’ve come around to CB in this draft, because of the following argument: Lawrence and Stroud are in the division, and it’ll be hard to beat those teams without a top notch CB corps.  And we still don’t have a clear #1 CB.  However, I could easily see us going other directions.  WR, under the theory that you have to give our young franchise QB enough to work with in order to avoid Mac Jones syndrome.  EDGE, under the theory that pressure is the most important element of stopping our division’s elite QBs.  Etc…

[coltsfanej]

I think corner is the most likely given the expectation that the top 3 WR will be gone and probably the #1 TE. It is a position of need and could quite possibly be the BPA at 15.  If there is a cluster of guys still there I would like to drop down a couple picks if possible and pick up another 3rd or 4th. 
 

if we don’t take one out of the group of to CBs, I believe it is because someone  unexpected falls. Perhaps one of the top OL or DL. Out of the edge group, I could see Ballard really liking Dallas Turner as he would give us the high end athleticism that we haven’t had at DE. 
 

I think there will be good WR available in the 2-4 rounds, so I would be ok with waiting for one of those guys instead of reaching in the 1st.

[Hark]

When it comes to Dejean, I have heard some recent talk about playing him being a FS in the NFL. That is def a position of need for the Colts.

[Dark Superman]

7 hours ago, Mackrel829 said:

Draft a cornerback in the first round this year?

There are like 5 guys projected to go in the 10-20 range, with all five being viewed fairly evenly and with no real stand-out CB1.

 

I really struggle to see the Colts doing anything except drafting a corner in the first round and/or trading back.

 

Any CFB fans watch any of those five guys this year?

Definitely! Gotta see how everything goes with the NFL Combine and FA pan out over the next few months. I much rather see the Colts bring back Kenny Moore and sign a number one corner in FA to allow them to take Brock Bowers or Brian Thomas Jr at 15 (If available) since this NFL Draft is loaded at WR. I would love to get Bowers in RD1 and another WR in RD2 or RD3. We just gotta wait and see how things play out first.

[2006Coltsbestever]

@NewColtsFan, explain why I gave you a double confusion. I just think drafting a Shut Down Corner is one of the hardest things to do, they are rare on the NFL level. Ballard was smart when he got a proven one in Gilmore who had been in the league for a while.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@NewColtsFan, explain why I gave you a double confusion. I just think drafting a Shut Down Corner is one of the hardest things to do, they are rare on the NFL level. Ballard was smart when he got a proven one in Gilmore who had been in the league for a while.

CBE….  Please forgive me.   I’ll be happy to write an explanation of my viewpoint.  But my morning today is busy.   It’ll take me a few more hours before I can get the time. 
 

Apologies. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

CBE….  Please forgive me.   I’ll be happy to write an explanation if my viewpoint.  But my morning today is busy.   It’ll take me a few more hours before I can get the time. 
 

Apologies. 

That is ok, I just wanted to try to explain myself better. I seen your confused face so I figured you would want to know why I posted what I posted. No Bigge.

[MikeCurtis]

Who knows what will happen?

 

Some smart guy talked about the CB spec in this defense.......   I tend to agree with him (Most of the time)

 

If I am CB, I HAVE to consider taking one of the best DL available at 15

There are 2-3 that I would be extremely happy with

 

I believe that CB will listen to trade offers (Maybe trade back even twice but stay in round 1)

 

If we go the trade back route, I could see us going with Brian Thomas or AD Mitchell with a late 1st

 

After that I would stuff this team with defense as there should be CBs / FS / LB / sill on the board in round 2 that could be an upgrade over what we have

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Hark said:

When it comes to Dejean, I have heard some recent talk about playing him being a FS in the NFL. That is def a position of need for the Colts.

 

It's hard to name any position that isn't one of need for the Colts. 

 

9 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

The corners everyone talks about are:

-Terrion Arnold

-Quinyon Mitchell

-Nate Wiggins

-Cooper DeJean

-Kool Aid McKinstry

 

i think Mitchell and Arnold are the top 2 guys. If they’re both gone, the Colts could take Brian Thomas Jr from LSU. Also if Brock Bowers falls to pick 15, they’d likely take him as well. So why there’s a good chance we take a corner, there’s also a chance they take a TE or WR.

 

My early read on these guys:

 

Arnold, the most complete and polished of the CB prospects in this class, athletic, good size, tough, competitive, a little handsy when he's beat but doesn't get beat a lot. He could easily be a top ten pick.

 

Mitchell, going to be a Combine star, good tape but a lot of hype based on his traits. I'll be watching him more after the Combine, but I think we'll be hearing his name with a lot of top 10-15 projections.

 

Wiggins, mostly traits and size, not sure about his long speed, has some production, seems like a good fit for the Colts defense but I don't get the feeling that he's a top 20 prospect. 

 

DeJean, probably a hybrid, his versatility and athleticism will be attractive, but ultimately he might be more of a safety than a CB in the NFL, which changes my opinion of his draft stock. And I don't know if he's outstanding enough to be a top 20 pick if he's going to play safety.

 

Kool Aid, good size and athleticism, good speed, not as quick and fluid, physical and aggressive, seems like a prototypical Ballard/Bradley CB prospect. Maybe a juiced up version of Brents. Definitely a first round guy, but on a lower tier than Arnold and Mitchell.

 

Any of these guys would fit our defense, but Wiggins and Kool Aid seem like they'd be the most obvious targets for the Colts. Add Kamari Lassiter to the conversation as well, but he's probably a late first kind of guy.

 

I don't think Bowers falls. I think Brian Thomas Jr. is a top 20 prospect, and if the Colts want him, trading back is very risky. There are other receivers that could be in play.

 

I also think someone like Chop Robinson is a prototypical Ballard prospect -- high level traits, not great production, but a high ceiling guy. Latu is the opposite -- highly productive, high motor, doesn't have the traits (athleticism/length), probably an over achiever, and a likely medical red flag. Jared Verse is the scheme fit with a moderate ceiling and decent production; Dallas Turner is the non-scheme fit with the higher ceiling. Neither Robinson nor Verse would surprise me for the Colts. Jerzhan Newton and Byron Murphy should be on people's radars also.

 

I'd be surprised if the Colts took an OT, but there will be a couple who are worthy of the pick; this seems like a good draft for OTs. I doubt we take an interior OL. We obviously won't take a QB or a RB, there's no one to talk about at RB. Outside of those positions, I think virtually everything else is in play at #15.

[Defjamz26]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

Wiggins, mostly traits and size, not sure about his long speed, has some production, seems like a good fit for the Colts defense but I don't get the feeling that he's a top 20 prospect. 

Biggest issue for me with Wiggins is he doesn’t seem willing to tackle which is a must for Zone corners. You have to be willing and able to bring the ball carrier down. On tape he didn’t seem to always to want to stick is nose in on run plays.

 

If it wasn’t for that, I’d be all aboard for getting him in a trade back. But maybe if he blows up the combine, I’ll feel different.

 

But you’ve got a pretty good read on the corners. Thats the same way I’ve got them ranked and broken down. If you’re looking for day 2 guys, I’d look at

 

-TJ Tampa, Iowa State

-Khyree Jackson, Oregon

-Cam Hart, Notre Dame

 

All long 6’2” corners with long arms.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Biggest issue for me with Wiggins is he doesn’t seem willing to tackle which is a must for Zone corners. You have to be willing and able to bring the ball carrier down. On tape he didn’t seem to always to want to stick is nose in on run plays.

 

If it wasn’t for that, I’d be all aboard for getting him in a trade back. But maybe if he blows up the combine, I’ll feel different.

 

But you’ve got a pretty good read on the corners. Thats the same way I’ve got them ranked and broken down. If you’re looking for day 2 guys, I’d look at

 

-TJ Tampa, Iowa State

-Khyree Jackson, Oregon

-Cam Hart, Notre Dame

 

All long 6’2” corners with long arms.

 

Tackling is not his strongest trait, but in the little I've seen I wouldn't call him deficient as a tackler.

 

Also, it's hard not to like his effort. Just watch these clips from the NC game: https://clemsonwire.usatoday.com/lists/social-media-reacts-nate-wiggins-makes-an-incredible-effort-play-to-stop-a-north-carolina-touchdown/ 

[stitches]

25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Tackling is not his strongest trait, but in the little I've seen I wouldn't call him deficient as a tackler.

 

Also, it's hard not to like his effort. Just watch these clips from the NC game: https://clemsonwire.usatoday.com/lists/social-media-reacts-nate-wiggins-makes-an-incredible-effort-play-to-stop-a-north-carolina-touchdown/ 

For whatever it's worth Wiggins' run defense grade by PFF is 65, which is the lowest run defense grade for any of their top 10 corners.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, stitches said:

For whatever it's worth Wiggins' run defense grade by PFF is 65, which is the lowest run defense grade for any of their top 10 corners.

 

Yeah, not surprising. I don't think he's great against the run.

[Blueblood23]

13 hours ago, Mackrel829 said:

Draft a cornerback in the first round this year?

There are like 5 guys projected to go in the 10-20 range, with all five being viewed fairly evenly and with no real stand-out CB1.

 

I really struggle to see the Colts doing anything except drafting a corner in the first round and/or trading back.

 

Any CFB fans watch any of those five guys this year?

I sure hope not. All cornerbacks get exposed without pressure on the quarterback. Either get an edge rusher or a pass receiver.

[NewColtsFan]

CBE…..    first, everything I’m going to write is out of respect.   Please don’t read anything with a negative tone.   None is intended.  Apologies in advance, this will be a long post. 

 

Your views on corners are head scratching to me.  In more than 55 years of following the NFL, including 30 of covering the NFL I’ve never heard anyone suggest that corner is the toughest position to evaluate.  Maybe it’s true, but I have no knowledge of it.  

You say Ballard would’ve drafted a corner in the first if it was easy.  I’m saying that has nothing to do with why Ballard hasn’t drafted a first round corner.   A good zone defense doesn’t require it.   In his 7 years as GM Ballard has only paid one corner $10m per — Gilmore.  That’s not an accident or coincidence.  And he’s only drafted three Corners in the 2ndR.   Wilson in 17, Rock in 19, Brents in 23.    That’s it. 

There are several other factors involved here….  And these are in no particular order….
 

You don’t need premium athletes to staff your defensive backfield.  With zone you need good athletes but not great, which means you can find zone corners in R3-6 and you don’t have to spend a premium pick (top-50) unless you want to get one premium corner as Ballard did with Rock and Juju and Wilson.  But otherwise, Ballard’s history is to use mid-round picks for the entire secondary, obviously including corners.  Even Kenny Moore, who I believe has been the highest paid nickel corner only makes $8.25m a year (4/33)
 

 

Another reason to for GMs like Ballard who prefer is that you can pay your best players good money, but unless they’re truly great, you don’t have to pay them premium money.   For example,  at the trade deadline many posters wanted Ballard to trade for Patrick Surtan.  He wanted 5/100 from the Cowboys.  I kept saying the most CB had paid a corner was 2/20 to Gilmore.  Eventually he got 5/95 from Dallas.  Ballard would never pay that to any corner.  Ballard pays his entire secondary good money, but not great money.  He clearly doesn’t believe he needs to.  
 

Is it possible the Colts draft a corner in the 1st?   I think it’s possible, but not likely.   But I think if we did go corner in the first, it wouldn’t be at pick 15.   I think Ballard would be more likely to trade down once or twice before taking a corner late in the 1st or trade out of the first to the top of the second.  
 

Again,  sorry for the length of the post, a lot of ground to cover. 

[MikeCurtis]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

For whatever it's worth Wiggins' run defense grade by PFF is 65, which is the lowest run defense grade for any of their top 10 corners.

With this defense we CANT have a CB that can’t cover the run at least at a middling level

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 2/22/2024 at 7:03 PM, NewColtsFan said:

CBE…..    first, everything I’m going to write is out of respect.   Please don’t read anything with a negative tone.   None is intended.  Apologies in advance, this will be a long post. 

 

Your views on corners are head scratching to me.  In more than 55 years of following the NFL, including 30 of covering the NFL I’ve never heard anyone suggest that corner is the toughest position to evaluate.  Maybe it’s true, but I have no knowledge of it.  

You say Ballard would’ve drafted a corner in the first if it was easy.  I’m saying that has nothing to do with why Ballard hasn’t drafted a first round corner.   A good zone defense doesn’t require it.   In his 7 years as GM Ballard has only paid one corner $10m per — Gilmore.  That’s not an accident or coincidence.  And he’s only drafted three Corners in the 2ndR.   Wilson in 17, Rock in 19, Brents in 23.    That’s it. 

There are several other factors involved here….  And these are in no particular order….
 

You don’t need premium athletes to staff your defensive backfield.  With zone you need good athletes but not great, which means you can find zone corners in R3-6 and you don’t have to spend a premium pick (top-50) unless you want to get one premium corner as Ballard did with Rock and Juju and Wilson.  But otherwise, Ballard’s history is to use mid-round picks for the entire secondary, obviously including corners.  Even Kenny Moore, who I believe has been the highest paid nickel corner only makes $8.25m a year (4/33)
 

 

Another reason to for GMs like Ballard who prefer is that you can pay your best players good money, but unless they’re truly great, you don’t have to pay them premium money.   For example,  at the trade deadline many posters wanted Ballard to trade for Patrick Surtan.  He wanted 5/100 from the Cowboys.  I kept saying the most CB had paid a corner was 2/20 to Gilmore.  Eventually he got 5/95 from Dallas.  Ballard would never pay that to any corner.  Ballard pays his entire secondary good money, but not great money.  He clearly doesn’t believe he needs to.  
 

Is it possible the Colts draft a corner in the 1st?   I think it’s possible, but not likely.   But I think if we did go corner in the first, it wouldn’t be at pick 15.   I think Ballard would be more likely to trade down once or twice before taking a corner late in the 1st or trade out of the first to the top of the second.  
 

Again,  sorry for the length of the post, a lot of ground to cover. 

I am at work now but will respond to this in a while. Good post actually. For some reason I didn't get your notification regarding this. Thanks for the response.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 2/22/2024 at 7:03 PM, NewColtsFan said:

CBE…..    first, everything I’m going to write is out of respect.   Please don’t read anything with a negative tone.   None is intended.  Apologies in advance, this will be a long post. 

 

Your views on corners are head scratching to me.  In more than 55 years of following the NFL, including 30 of covering the NFL I’ve never heard anyone suggest that corner is the toughest position to evaluate.  Maybe it’s true, but I have no knowledge of it.  

You say Ballard would’ve drafted a corner in the first if it was easy.  I’m saying that has nothing to do with why Ballard hasn’t drafted a first round corner.   A good zone defense doesn’t require it.   In his 7 years as GM Ballard has only paid one corner $10m per — Gilmore.  That’s not an accident or coincidence.  And he’s only drafted three Corners in the 2ndR.   Wilson in 17, Rock in 19, Brents in 23.    That’s it. 

There are several other factors involved here….  And these are in no particular order….
 

You don’t need premium athletes to staff your defensive backfield.  With zone you need good athletes but not great, which means you can find zone corners in R3-6 and you don’t have to spend a premium pick (top-50) unless you want to get one premium corner as Ballard did with Rock and Juju and Wilson.  But otherwise, Ballard’s history is to use mid-round picks for the entire secondary, obviously including corners.  Even Kenny Moore, who I believe has been the highest paid nickel corner only makes $8.25m a year (4/33)
 

 

Another reason to for GMs like Ballard who prefer is that you can pay your best players good money, but unless they’re truly great, you don’t have to pay them premium money.   For example,  at the trade deadline many posters wanted Ballard to trade for Patrick Surtan.  He wanted 5/100 from the Cowboys.  I kept saying the most CB had paid a corner was 2/20 to Gilmore.  Eventually he got 5/95 from Dallas.  Ballard would never pay that to any corner.  Ballard pays his entire secondary good money, but not great money.  He clearly doesn’t believe he needs to.  
 

Is it possible the Colts draft a corner in the 1st?   I think it’s possible, but not likely.   But I think if we did go corner in the first, it wouldn’t be at pick 15.   I think Ballard would be more likely to trade down once or twice before taking a corner late in the 1st or trade out of the first to the top of the second.  
 

Again,  sorry for the length of the post, a lot of ground to cover. 

The league today is so predicated helping offenses out that even good Corners are at a disadvantage going against most good, especially great WRs. I just wouldn't gamble on taking a Corner in Round 1 when we have other holes to fill, like TE for example. We can draft a Corner in round 2 or 3 that could easily be as good as a Round 1 pick. I also think Edge Rush is more important, getting to the QB is the main key on D. We have had 1 great CB the entire time Ballard has been here, Ballard knew the guy had a great track record though so he signed him knowing it wasn't going to be a gamble = Gilmore. Unfortunately he was only here 1 year on a bad team.

[2006Coltsbestever]

@NewColtsFan, I will say this, every draft is different. Some drafts have had 1 or 2 Corners in it to where one could say, no way will he be bad. It depends on the Draft in reality because the draft is a crapshoot anyway. I would love to have a team that has 2 shutdown corners but our style of D would have to change, it won't because Gus is still here. I want Bowers at #15, if he isn't there, I go either another WR if we have no plan to sign one like a Mike Evans, or Safety, or Edge Rush. Just talking Round 1. 

[Defjamz26]

23 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would love to have a team that has 2 shutdown corners but our style of D would have to change, it won't because Gus is still here

He’s here now but I doubt he’s here forever. And what you outlined is part of the reason he needs to go. We shouldn’t be limiting the type of players we are drafting because of Gus’ scheme. Especially considering he refuses to play more man sometimes. That’s why say draft a player like Arnold or Mitchell who can play in any scheme.

[KB]

3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

He’s here now but I doubt he’s here forever. And what you outlined is part of the reason he needs to go. We shouldn’t be limiting the type of players we are drafting because of Gus’ scheme. Especially considering he refuses to play more man sometimes. That’s why say draft a player like Arnold or Mitchell who can play in any scheme.

Don't all teams draft certain players and avoid other players to match their scheme? We arnt looking at EDGE's most likely even though we need to put pressure on the QB. We're looking at pass rushing DE's. Is it the DC's fault we don't make an attempt for Dallas Turner? No, he dosnt fit what we do.

[Jason_]

On 2/25/2024 at 7:25 AM, Defjamz26 said:

He’s here now but I doubt he’s here forever. And what you outlined is part of the reason he needs to go. We shouldn’t be limiting the type of players we are drafting because of Gus’ scheme. Especially considering he refuses to play more man sometimes. That’s why say draft a player like Arnold or Mitchell who can play in any scheme.

 

The zone heavy defense came about before Gus got here.  It seems to be a philosophical thing on Ballard's part, which is one of my least favorite of Ballard's traits.  So even if Gus goes, I'd expect someone with a similar defensive scheme/philosophy to take his place.

[Superman]

On 2/22/2024 at 11:28 AM, Superman said:

Wiggins, mostly traits and size, not sure about his long speed, has some production, seems like a good fit for the Colts defense but I don't get the feeling that he's a top 20 prospect. 

 

I've watched more of Wiggins. He had a great 40 time at the Combine, but I see receivers get behind him on tape. Trying to figure out if he's taking risks, if he lacks spatial awareness, is it just sloppy transitions... 

 

I also see more of the tackling issues. 

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I've watched more of Wiggins. He had a great 40 time at the Combine, but I see receivers get behind him on tape. Trying to figure out if he's taking risks, if he lacks spatial awareness, is it just sloppy transitions... 

 

I also see more of the tackling issues. 

I actually have removed him from consideration from the Colts because of the tackling issues. Especially now that he weighed in at 173. He’s too thin and too uninterested in tackling to play in a Cover-3. If CB is till on the table at 15, for me it would need to be Arnold or Mitchell. 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I actually have removed him from consideration from the Colts because of the tackling issues. Especially now that he weighed in at 173. He’s too thin and too uninterested in tackling to play in a Cover-3. If CB is till on the table at 15, for me it would need to be Arnold or Mitchell. 

 

I think Arnold is really good, but I don't think he meets the Colts physical baselines. If we're talking first round, I think Mitchell would be the most obvious target.

 

Edit: We'll see what Kool-Aid's medical looks like, but I felt like he was the Ballard prototype at corner.

[MikeCurtis]

Brian Thomas or Brock would seem to be the more likely pick at 15

[twfish]

I’ve really been thinking Mitchell lately but there is a glaring issue with that. It’s that with our scheme we don’t require a true lock down CB. It’s easier and cheaper to find a zone CB than a top tier press man CB. I don’t see Ballard spending a top pick at CB when edge rusher, WR, possible tightend or even a DT are sitting there unless it’s truly BPA

[stitches]

17 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think Arnold is really good, but I don't think he meets the Colts physical baselines. If we're talking first round, I think Mitchell would be the most obvious target.

 

Edit: We'll see what Kool-Aid's medical looks like, but I felt like he was the Ballard prototype at corner.

If I told you Arnold measured longer than Mitchell would that surprise you? 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

If I told you Arnold measured longer than Mitchell would that surprise you? 

 

I looked them up, did I have them backward? 

 

Edit: I guess I got mixed up on Mitchell. I thought he had 33" arms.

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I looked them up, did I have them backward? 

 

Edit: I guess I got mixed up on Mitchell. I thought he had 33" arms.

31" for Mitchell... 31 5/8" for Arnold. What do you make of Arnold's lack of elite speed? He doesn't look super fast on tape but I still thought he would be able to go in the 4.4s 

 

It's interesting that from all the CBs projected as 1st rounders only Kool-Aid McKinstry measured at 32" or above. Ennis Rakestraw measured at 32" too but I personally don't see him as a 1st rounder. 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

31" for Mitchell... 31 5/8" for Arnold. What do you make of Arnold's lack of elite speed? He doesn't look super fast on tape but I still thought he would be able to go in the 4.4s 

 

It's interesting that from all the CBs projected as 1st rounders only Kool-Aid McKinstry measured at 32" or above. Ennis Rakestraw measured at 32" too but I personally don't see him as a 1st rounder. 

 

I thought Arnold would be 4.45-4.5, so pretty close. I think he's really instinctual and positions himself well, and he can contest at the high point. I really like him, but never thought he fit Ballard's profile. I really like Mitchell also, he seems longer to me...

 

There are a lot of later round guys with longer arms, but it looks like a lot of them project as safeties in the NFL. 

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I thought Arnold would be 4.45-4.5, so pretty close. I think he's really instinctual and positions himself well, and he can contest at the high point. I really like him, but never thought he fit Ballard's profile. I really like Mitchell also, he seems longer to me...

 

There are a lot of later round guys with longer arms, but it looks like a lot of them project as safeties in the NFL. 

I really don't know how much attention to pay to those shorter corners. Like if we had any significant exception to that 32" rule I'd be more willing to consider them, but especially early in the draft or when spending resources in FA... Ballard really seems to be pretty strict with that 32" threshold. I've done that exercise before... but pretty much the only exceptions for those 7 years are Nate Hairston (31" and 5th round) and Jaylon Jones(30 3/4", 7th round pick). On the other hand the list of 32+ is endless...

 

2018

Kenny Moore - 32 5/8"

Quincy Wilson - 32 1/4"

Pierre Desir - 33"

Nate Hairston - 31" 

 

2019

Rock Ya-Sin 32"

Marvell Tell - 33 1/8"

 

2020

Xavier Rhodes 33 3/4"

Isaiah Rodgers  32 7/8"

 

2021

TJ Carrie - 31 7/8" 

 

2022

Dallis Flowers 32"

Brandon Facyson 32 5/8"

Stephon Gilmore 31" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess this is the real exception. Yep... Ballard made an exception for an DPOY, 5 time pro bowler and 2 time first team all pro...

 

2023

Julius Brents 34" (!!!!! FREAKY) 

Darius Rush 33 3/8"

Jaylon Jones 30 3/4" 

Darrell Baker 32"

 

 

Pretty much the only exceptions are late round picks(5th Hairston, 7th Jones) and Gilmore... I honestly don't think Ballard would take Mitchell in the 1st with 31" arms... maybe I'm wrong... 

 

 

 

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

Pretty much the only exceptions are late round picks(5th Hairston, 7th Jones) and Gilmore... I honestly don't think Ballard would take Mitchell in the 1st with 31" arms... maybe I'm wrong... 

The Ballard rule is while you can’t have a roster full of exceptions, you can have 1 or 2 if everything else is elite. Moore is 5’9” but had 32” arms. Mitchell’s has 31” arms but his testing is elite everywhere else. 4.32 40 yard dash with a 38” vertical. 9.75 RAS. 
 

I still think receiver is the play, but Ballard would make the exception for a guy who may legitimately be the best corner in the draft. Especially when the exception is over 1”.

[IndyEV]

On 3/4/2024 at 4:51 PM, Superman said:

 

Edit: We'll see what Kool-Aid's medical looks like, but I felt like he was the Ballard prototype at corner.

Im kind of wondering, if his reported lis franc injury could maybe drop his draft stock to the Colts maybe in the 2nd round!? Kinda doubt it, but it could scare a few teams away!

[chad72]

On 2/22/2024 at 4:13 AM, Defjamz26 said:

The corners everyone talks about are:

-Terrion Arnold

-Quinyon Mitchell

-Nate Wiggins

-Cooper DeJean

-Kool Aid McKinstry

 

i think Mitchell and Arnold are the top 2 guys. If they’re both gone, the Colts could take Brian Thomas Jr from LSU. Also if Brock Bowers falls to pick 15, they’d likely take him as well. So why there’s a good chance we take a corner, there’s also a chance they take a TE or WR.

 

If it is not a pass rusher, Bowers or Brian Thomas Jr. is how I think it is going to play out. For a D that doesn't rely on man CBs to lock down their players most of the time, Ballard has waited till Round 2 consistently to get his CB, from Rock Ya Sin to JuJu Brents (if we ignore Quincy Wilson for Pagano's system in Round 2 in 2017).

 

That is why I have it narrowed down to - Bowers, Pass Rusher or Brian Thomas Jr. based on the system of our D, Ballard's history and recent emphasis on getting a boost in the explosiveness category, for pick 15. Last year was the first time Ballard got a QB in Round 1, this year will be the first time he probably gets a skill position player in Round 1, IMO.