Remainder of the Season. Want vs Need

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

No one claims high draft picks guarantee anything Jvan.  Who are you debating that with?  

 

You don't think that having a high pick increases your chances of drafting a great QB, EDGE, etc?

Increases odds, yes.  Not worth tanking though

[Nickster]

13 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

For 40 years?

 

Well basically yeah. 

 

The old Brown franchise (current Ravens) was competive in the 80s and early 90s and have been the most of this millineum. 

 

So it's really been about 25 years since the new Browns existed and the best two QBs they had were Couch and Mayfield, both #1 overall, and neither particularly good.  They've tried several other QBs since then including a few mid to late 1st rounders.

So yeah Jvan.

 

The last 25 years of Brown futiltiy is likely attributable mostly to bad QBs.

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

QB, Edge, LT - you hit on stars at those positions and everything else can be filled in yearly.  
 

We MAY have hit on two (we’re hoping).  Edge is still a big need.  

I’m hoping that if we win Sunday Ballard might trade for one of the young edge players that are reportedly available.  I’m thinking Chubb, Sweat, or even Burns.  Maybe our 1st and Paye for Burns.  Reich might go for that.

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

I’m hoping that if we win Sunday Ballard might trade for one of the young edge players that are reportedly available.  I’m thinking Chubb, Sweat, or even Burns.  Maybe our 1st and Paye for Burns.  Reich might go for that.

I’d take a chance on Chase.  But I’m a Buckeye, so I’m hopeful for his career to pan out.  

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Increases odds, yes.  Not worth tanking though

 

Well what is the definition of tanking?

 

Of course you want your players to play their best.  Even if you disagree about GM and AR for which I think as things stand GM is more conducive to winning.

 

But lets say that you were going to have AR start on the sidelines and come in halfway through the season, even if your team was say 3-4 and 4-5 but 3 games out of first.  Would you scrap the plan of developing your rookie?  I wouldn't.  Winning would not be as important as development.  Is that tanking?

Me I for one was very glad we kept losing after it was obvious in whatever it was 2012 or so when we got the 1st rounder and Luck.

 

I don't think "developing younger talent" is necessarily tanking when you are out of a race.

 

If we are out of it after theses next 3 games I hope we lose lose lose.

 

If not, I'm going to be rooting to win, but I think it might decrease our chances of being really competitive in the future. 

 

 

[cdgacoltsfan]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If that's true, then why should we take Ballard's word over any other GM? In fact, if it's a total crapshoot, I could do just as good of a job as Ballard if I had the same info and scouts that he does. Everyone is just making an educated guess then right? So why is everyone saying that Ballard is smarter than armchair GMs? Apparently if the armchair GM had the same info as Ballard, he could do his job. It's a total crapshoot right?

Then apply for the job 

[cdgacoltsfan]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Also, you're only counting the first round. The best GMs can hit in all 7 rounds (not all in the same draft). You know this though. You're just trying to simplify everything. I just don't know your angle here.

You want us to tank for a better draft pick in the first round...the success rate for first round draft picks is around 30% ( teams signing second contract) The later rounds are even less . 

[sb41champs]

I voted for "play competitively" - because that is what I expect of the Colts each and every game - in ANY season!!

 

You play to win - NOT - to attempt to "flop" and assure yourself a specific level of draft pick.

 

We have a number of "winnable games" on our schedule - and - some that will be uber-difficult for the Colts to win.

 

Don't forget what they say about "any given Sunday"!!

[2006Coltsbestever]

I voted A. Quick word of advice, when you do a Poll, I would suggest you show what poster is voting for what. I was told to do this many years ago, most people like to see who voted for what. 

 

Thanks for your cooperation. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

Why do you think you are an authority on what people should do or shouldn't do?  I think you must have an overinflated sense of righteousness.  

 

It's in the interest of winning sometimes that it's good for the club to lose.  Short term loss for long term gain. 

 

It's not fun to lose.  But sometimes in the NFL it's necessary in order to reset the roster.  Not quite, but almost without exception, bad rosters, bad teams, bad orgs are only reset by a great QB and other top of the draft type of talent.  Sometimes this type of talent falls later. 

To your 1st sentence, I don't. I just think tanking is a loser's mentality unless you have a team that flat out stinks and you know for sure you are going to get a top 5 pick. A team like we had 1997 and in 2011 for example. There has only been 3 times in my 40 season fandom where I didn't mind if we lost, that was in 1997 once we got to 0-8 because I knew Manning was coming out, 2011 once we got 0-8 because I knew Andrew Luck was coming out at #1, and the last game of last season which would secure a pick in the top 4. Those are rare circumstances. In each case we needed a franchise QB. Once we got to 0-8 in 1997 and 2011, the season was over so at that point winning didn't matter, knowing the QB's that were coming out. 

 

We have a good enough team this year to possibly make the playoffs and we already drafted our franchise QB last season, so what is the point of tanking this season? You might as well forget about drafting Marvin Harrison because he will go top 3. 

[csmopar]

On 10/25/2023 at 9:45 AM, Indeee said:

Hello all.

 

I see a lot of frustration in the threads and a lot of disappointment with the losses.

 

I just thought it would be interesting to find out where the consensus lies with the fans at the Colts current state.

 

I voted for #3 btw as I have always thought this year was a mulligan year. Reason why they gave Steichen 6 years. 

 

***How come my poll doesn't look like others poll when they post polls? SERIOUSLY. What did I do wrong?

 

Let me know so I can edit/fix it to look correct

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think we play hard, I think we’re competitive and I think we will get better as we go throughout the year. We’re already miles ahead of where we were last season. And we’re the only team that has scored a minimum of 20 points every game. When last year I think we hit that mark like twice.

 

all that said, I think we still lack the QB to get us more than maybe 3-4 more wins at the most. And I think that’s asking a lot.

 

so I marked competive but lose out. Not saying we will be tanking, cause I’m not advocating for that. But more what I expect to happen. And yes, we sure could use a shot at a top ten pick. 

[csmopar]

35 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To your 1st sentence, I don't. I just think tanking is a loser's mentality unless you have a team that flat out stinks and you know for sure you are going to get a top 5 pick. A team like we had 1997 and in 2011 for example. There has only been 3 times in my 40 season fandom where I didn't mind if we lost, that was in 1997 once we got to 0-8 because I knew Manning was coming out, 2011 once we got 0-8 because I knew Andrew Luck was coming out at #1, and the last game of last season which would secure a pick in the top 4. Those are rare circumstances. In each case we needed a franchise QB. Once we got to 0-8 in 1997 and 2011, the season was over so at that point winning didn't matter, knowing the QB's that were coming out. 

 

We have a good enough team this year to possibly make the playoffs and we already drafted our franchise QB last season, so what is the point of tanking this season? You might as well forget about drafting Marvin Harrison because he will go top 3. 

While I agree, Marv 2.0 would elevate this team similar to how Kelce in KC does. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

While I agree, Marv 2.0 would elevate this team similar to how Kelce in KC does. 

Sure he would but he is being mocked to go 2nd in the draft.  

[NFLfan]

4 hours ago, Nickster said:

And another thing JVAN

 

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

No one claims high draft picks guarantee anything Jvan. 

 

Please quit writing "Jvan". You have written that at least three times. It looks like baiting. Just stop.

 

Thanks.

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

Well what is the definition of tanking?

 

Of course you want your players to play their best.  Even if you disagree about GM and AR for which I think as things stand GM is more conducive to winning.

 

But lets say that you were going to have AR start on the sidelines and come in halfway through the season, even if your team was say 3-4 and 4-5 but 3 games out of first.  Would you scrap the plan of developing your rookie?  I wouldn't.  Winning would not be as important as development.  Is that tanking?

Me I for one was very glad we kept losing after it was obvious in whatever it was 2012 or so when we got the 1st rounder and Luck.

 

I don't think "developing younger talent" is necessarily tanking when you are out of a race.

 

If we are out of it after theses next 3 games I hope we lose lose lose.

 

If not, I'm going to be rooting to win, but I think it might decrease our chances of being really competitive in the future. 

 

 

Well,   you have a losers mentality.   I don't care for people that would rather lose than win.   You and I will never agree.   Some folks like to win some people are losers.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Then apply for the job 

I wish I could thank and laugh at that

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Well,   you have a losers mentality.   I don't care for people that would rather lose than win.   You and I will never agree.   Some folks like to win some people are losers.

I pretty much said the same thing above. When it comes to Nick, you can't compromise with him, he loves to argue for some reason.

[jvan1973]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I pretty much said the same thing above. When it comes to Nick, you can't compromise with him, he loves to argue for some reason.

Oh,  there is a reason.   But I'll leave it at that.   I'll never hope for a Colt lss

[JediXMan]

9 hours ago, Nickster said:

I still don't think this is a playoff caliber team.  But it's no longer a strong feeling.

 

With the apparent weakness of schedule we may have a chance at the post. 

 

In three more weeks I will have a solid opinion on this topic.  If we lose the next three games we'd be effectively out of the race, and at that point I'd be for losing and getting high draft captal.  

 

If we sweep or go 2-1, then we are legit playoff contenders and I'd be all about it. 

Something tells me that  Browns loss is going to haunt the Colts. Looking at the rest of the schedule it looks doable to get a wildcard spot.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

Something tells me that  Browns loss is going to haunt the Colts. Looking at the rest of the schedule it looks doable to get a wildcard spot.

It very well could, because of that Bull we could miss the playoffs by 1 game.

[Dunk]

4 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

Why do you think you are an authority on what people should do or shouldn't do?  I think you must have an overinflated sense of righteousness.  

 

It's in the interest of winning sometimes that it's good for the club to lose.  Short term loss for long term gain. 

 

It's not fun to lose.  But sometimes in the NFL it's necessary in order to reset the roster.  Not quite, but almost without exception, bad rosters, bad teams, bad orgs are only reset by a great QB and other top of the draft type of talent.  Sometimes this type of talent falls later. 

I get what you are saying. Butttttt and its a huge but. I can't stand to see my team lose week in week out. Too competitive.

I had a hard time as a Dad letting my kids win. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Dunk said:

I get what you are saying. Butttttt and its a huge but. I can't stand to see my team lose week in week out. Too competitive.

I had a hard time as a Dad letting my kids win. 

I guess Nick doesn't care for my authority (sarcasm) 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

 

Please quit writing "Jvan". You have written that at least three times. It looks like baiting. Just stop.

 

Thanks.

Huh?  That’s his screen name. I call everyone by their screen name .

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, Dunk said:

I get what you are saying. Butttttt and its a huge but. I can't stand to see my team lose week in week out. Too competitive.

I had a hard time as a Dad letting my kids win. 

Lol.  Well I was super competitive on a personal level.  And as coach lol.  Anyone who knows me when I competed and coached knows I was pretty into winning lol.
 

As a parent with my athlete sons, winning isn’t as paramount.  I have one son who is a good soccer player for a top 5-10 program in Indiana, and he’s sometimes overly competitive to where losses hurt him more than is good and he feels like a loser.  I have another son who just had better talent in areas outside of athletics.
 

as a fan of a pro team I just want the best possible outcome.  Best possible outcome in 97 was losing.  Best possible outcome in 2011.  
 

If we are out of the race in 3 weeks the best possible outcome is to lose more games to draft higher.

 

I understand how some feel, but I don’t much deal in feelings when it comes to watching grown men I have no relationship play ball lol.  That really seems like it should end by the end of high school to me lol.  I mean I have no input into the team with the exception of 4-8 cheap tix a season lol.  
 

So if we drop out of the race, I think the best thing for the future of this club would be the best possible draft position and it doesn’t affect me when anonymous internet posters think that’s a losers’ mentality.

 

Makes me think they never competed much themselves because if they had and had any success at all, they’d likely know the difference lol.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Lol.  Well I was super competitive in a personal level.  And as coach lol.  Anyone who knows me when I competed and coached knows I was pretty into winning lol.
 

As a parent with my athlete sons, winning isn’t as paramount.  I have one son who is a good soccer player for a top 5-10 program in Indiana, and he’s sometimes overly competitive to where losses hurt him more than is good and he feels like a loser.  I have another son who just had better talent in areas outside of athletics.
 

as a fan of a pro team I just want the best possible outcome.  Best possible outcome in 97 was losing.  Best possible outcome in 2011.  
 

If we are out of the race in 3 weeks the best possible outcome is to lose more games to draft higher.

 

I understand how some feel, but I don’t much deal in feelings when it comes to watching grown men I have no relationship play ball lol.  That really seems like it should end by the end of high school to me lol.  I mean I have no input into the team with the exception of 4-8 cheap tix a season lol.  
 

So if we drop out of the race, I think the best thing for the future of this club would be the best possible draft position and it doesn’t affect me when anonymous internet posters think that’s a losers’ mentality.

 

Makes me think they never competed much themselves because I’d they had and had any success at all, they’d know the difference lol.

 

 

"as a fan of a pro team I just want the best possible outcome. Best possible outcome in 97 was losing. Best possible outcome in 2011". I doubt anyone would disagree with you regarding that quote. If you would have read my post closely you would have seen I said the same thing but those are rare circumstances. We knew Peyton was there and then Luck was there. 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, Dunk said:

I get what you are saying. Butttttt and its a huge but. I can't stand to see my team lose week in week out. Too competitive.

I had a hard time as a Dad letting my kids win. 

 And Dunk I used to be like that with people that I love in certain kinds of games we’d play and quite frankly I’d almost always win and it would cause resentment.  Kinda like my debating and reasoning skills on this message board lol.

 

Then an old wise man (seriously an older guy who was really wise) taught me to let the old lady win at scrabble most of the time, and let’s just say the outcome of that practice was in the ole Nickster’s favor. 😉

 

Winning is not as important as we think it is in certain areas.  Between the lines competing as effectively as you can is, and outside the lines training and treating your body to be as competitive as you can be is.

 
don’t know how old you are man but if you just beat your kids down, you are likely to make them give up easily and/or make them negatively over competitive.  

 

 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I guess Nick doesn't care for my authority (sarcasm) 

you all right Bestie.

 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Well,   you have a losers mentality.   I don't care for people that would rather lose than win.   You and I will never agree.   Some folks like to win some people are losers.

Yeah but I love dirt tracking.  Them dudes are animals.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

you all right Bestie.

 

This place is full of different personalities. What is funny is, some of the people on here I don't agree with a lot or debate a lot with, might be the best people you meet in person 

[Nickster]

7 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Totally wrong. You're dealing with humans and nobody knows for sure how they will perform at the NFL level. Look up the success rate for first round picks. 

Nobody knows CD but there are probabilities that are higher.

 

you look up the success rate of 1st rounders, it’s much higher than 2nds , which is much higher than 3rds and so on.  There’s exceptions like Tom Brady and to a lesser extent Brock Purdy but it’s not random dude.

 

I really don’t know how to play craps but what I do know fo shizzle is that it’s a higher probability to shoot a 7 than any other outcome followed by a 6 or 8, then a 5 or 9, etc.

Drafting NFL players is not blind luck.  It’s probability and luck and other stuff.

[Nickster]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This place is full of different personalities. What is funny is, some of the people on here I don't agree with a lot or debate a lot with, might be the best people you meet in person 

Oh I’m pretty much the same in person Bestie.

 

Difference is I don’t always go around asserting my opinions in real life.

 

But Jeebus Bestie, isn’t that what an open forum message board is for?

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I pretty much said the same thing above. When it comes to Nick, you can't compromise with him, he loves to argue for some reason.

 

Takes 2 to tango and more than one to argue, unless one is schizophrenic.

 

And yes I love argumentation and debate.  I absolutely love it and I think it’s good for the ole neurons and can also be a way to gain knowledge.

 

[Nickster]

4 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Then apply for the job 

The ole appeal to authority lol.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

I think we play hard, I think we’re competitive and I think we will get better as we go throughout the year. We’re already miles ahead of where we were last season. And we’re the only team that has scored a minimum of 20 points every game. When last year I think we hit that mark like twice.

 

all that said, I think we still lack the QB to get us more than maybe 3-4 more wins at the most. And I think that’s asking a lot.

 

so I marked competive but lose out. Not saying we will be tanking, cause I’m not advocating for that. But more what I expect to happen. And yes, we sure could use a shot at a top ten pick. 

We are actually a half game behind where we were last season at this point before Jimmy started Sammy E then hired his golf buddy to come coach.
 

I do think we will win more than one more game though lol.  I agree.  I see 3-4 more wins.  The schedule appears weak and the oline is pretty good again.  Not great but perdy good.

 

I’ve never been high on this D though.  They just don’t really have it in the most important area which is pass defense, both rushing and covering.

[2006Coltsbestever]

21 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Oh I’m pretty much the same in person Bestie.

 

Difference is I don’t always go around asserting my opinions in real life.

 

But Jeebus Bestie, isn’t that what an open forum message board is for?

It would be boring if everyone agreed in here. I can even usually see both sides of most opinions unless I think an opinion is just ridiculous. Look I am not always right and never claimed to be, but I do hold myself to a high regard in having pretty good football knowledge, so sometimes I do get assertive in here. After watching sports for 47 years (I am 52) = football, basketball, and baseball, + I played competitively in High School, I will argue my points until the Cows come home . There have been many times where I have been wrong though. I thought Joey Bosa would be a bust coming out and I look like a fool for saying so, that is just one example. When it comes to the Colts, I am usually good at predicting how good we will be going into a season. Last season I looked like a fool, I thought Matt Ryan would be good and we would stroll to a Division Title  . At least I did nail the Rivers prediction, I had us going 11-5 in 2020 (making the playoffs) and thought he would be very good, so I am 1-1 in that regard . 

 

Luck set us back 5 seasons by retiring, that is my opinion, now we are in year 5 without him. AR needs to stay healthy in 2024, if he does I think our team can be really entertaining and be a true contender. I like Shane already and I think he will improve. 

[jvan1973]

27 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Yeah but I love dirt tracking.  Them dudes are animals.

I love dirt tracking as well.   Some of my best childhood memories.    This dudes all want to win always

[jvan1973]

15 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Takes 2 to tango and more than one to argue, unless one is schizophrenic.

 

And yes I love argumentation and debate.  I absolutely love it and I think it’s good for the ole neurons and can also be a way to gain knowledge.

 

You also love being a contrarion for the sake of being a contrarion.    

[Nickster]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It would be boring if everyone agreed in here. I can even usually see both sides of most opinions unless I think an opinion is just ridiculous. Look I am not always right and never claimed to be, but I do hold myself to a high regard in having pretty good football knowledge, so sometimes I do get assertive in here. After watching sports for 47 years (I am 52) = football, basketball, and baseball, + I played competitively in High School, I will argue my points until the Cows come home . There have been many times where I have been wrong though. I thought Joey Bosa would be a bust coming out and I look like a fool for saying so, that is just one example. When it comes to the Colts, I am usually good at predicting how good we will be going into a season. Last season I looked like a fool, I thought Matt Ryan would be good and we would stroll to a Division Title  . At least I did nail the Rivers prediction, I had us going 11-5 in 2020 (making the playoffs) and thought he would be very good, so I am 1-1 in that regard . 

 

Luck sit us back 5 years, that is my opinion, now we are in year 5 without him. AR needs to stay healthy in 2024, if he does I think our team can be really entertaining and be a true contender. I like Shane already and I think he will improve. 

I hope AR pans out.  Definitely have mixed feelings about the kid.

 

but one thing I feel pretty strongly about is that he won’t be very good unless he’s a LJ, JH, JA type of running QB ie. 120 to 170 carries a year.  
 

Some here want him to be a pocket QB.  That’s borderline absurd to me.  I have a hard time envisioning him being successful that way.

[jvan1973]

36 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 And Dunk I used to be like that with people that I love in certain kinds of games we’d play and quite frankly I’d almost always win and it would cause resentment.  Kinda like my debating and reasoning skills on this message board lol.

 

Then an old wise man (seriously an older guy who was really wise) taught me to let the old lady win at scrabble most of the time, and let’s just say the outcome of that practice was in the ole Nickster’s favor. 😉

 

Winning is not as important as we think it is in certain areas.  Between the lines competing as effectively as you can is, and outside the lines training and treating your body to be as competitive as you can be is.

 
don’t know how old you are man but if you just beat your kids down, you are likely to make them give up easily and/or make them negatively over competitive.  

 

 

What in the hell does letting grandma win at scrabble have to do with wanting your favorite football team to win?

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You also love being a contrarion for the sake of being a contrarion.    

I am a natural skeptic.  I can tell you this.  I’ve never knowingly posted something here I didn’t think at the time.  So I don’t know what you think contrarian means but I think it implies dishonesty in my book.