Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Solid84 did just that, he said Taylor averaged only 4 yards a carry on 82 carries before his injury. So he singles out a few games (4) to make his argument look better. So we agree, thanks Doug. In reality Taylor averaged 4.5 yards a carry for the year and he did some of that while playing hurt. The year before that he averaged 5.5 a carry when he was healthy. 5.5 is off the charts great. 

 

By the way 4 yards a carry is better than average for 1 back. That is the cut off point for being at least good but he even had that with the O.Line playing bad.

Lol...

 

You (and others) argue he was hurt in '22. I took the games (we at least know) he wasn't hurt to show his production without the injury element.

 

And again..

Quote

That is the cut off point for being at least good but he even had that with the O.Line playing bad.

(Emphasis mine) ... Why is the Oline playing bad an excuse for JT when it wasn't for Wentz?... or Deon Jackson against the Jags last week for that matter?

 

You jump through so many hoops, man...

[Solid84]

49 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This just tells me how important an OL is.  Swift was the 3rd pick in the 2nd. Rd in 2020.  That’s pick 35 overall.   But he went to the Lions.  We know how that turned out.  None the less he’s a very talented rb who was stuck on a poor team.  Now the trade to the Eagles where some say lies the best OL in the league and what do you know he’s off to a good start.   Anyone surprised?  You shouldn’t be.  He’s a very talented back.  If a team has a top OL they should be able to run the ball and when you add a talent like Swift you hit the home run.  And Swift is still on his rookie deal.  Eagles pulled off a great trade for sure.  If your OL is not great or just average the chances are your running game will be just average unless you can add an elite rb like Taylor.  Elite players make a difference.  Average running backs are no threat when you have OL issues.  But an elite back can make a difference.  The Bills line is not great for example, but JT on that team will get them to a Super Bowl game imo.  And elite players do get paid as they should.  

To the bolded part: But JT didn't do that last year? Our Oline was atrocious last year and by your logic JT should've made a difference, but he didn't? Even if you take away his presumed injured games he was average, so where's this logic coming from?

 

If we didn't have JT on our team, this would have been a huge nothing burger. We wouldn't be discussing Barkley or Cook or whoever. It would've been the tiniest of blips on our radar. This is purely down to homerism.

 

Edit: I do think, though, that Oline play is at least (if not more) important to the run game than the actual RB.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Does this mean he is getting ready to play for colts. From Taylor’s Instagram story.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Taylor looks really fast.

 

 

[throwing BBZ]

4 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Taylor looks really fast.

 

 

 

 I want him to be healthy. He certainly needs to be exercising and strengthening his lower body. Hope all goes well JT and someone else writes that big check.

 

[HOZER]

39 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Lol...

 

You (and others) argue he was hurt in '22. I took the games (we at least know) he wasn't hurt to show his production without the injury element.

 

And again..

(Emphasis mine) ... Why is the Oline playing bad an excuse for JT when it wasn't for Wentz?... or Deon Jackson against the Jags last week for that matter?

 

You jump through so many hoops, man...

 The Oline didn’t turn the ball over, twice. There was also another element last year working against the team, our ex coach/offensive coordinator. 

[Solid84]

5 minutes ago, HOZER said:

 The Oline didn’t turn the ball over, twice. There was also another element last year working against the team, our ex coach/offensive coordinator. 

I will freely admit Jackson had a BAD game against the Jags last week. I will also say I very much doubt Jackson is the answer, but we've played one game...

 

And now it's the HC's/OC's fault... JT had the same HC/OC in '21 you know?... 

[HOZER]

21 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I will freely admit Jackson had a BAD game against the Jags last week. I will also say I very much doubt Jackson is the answer, but we've played one game...

 

And now it's the HC's/OC's fault... JT had the same HC/OC in '21 you know?... 

Yep his play calling was horrendous. 9/8, didn’t make the playoffs. Ol’ run it up the middle Reich calls were predictable, if it wasn’t for an above average RB(in 21), they wouldn’t have gone as far as they did. Wentz didn’t help.

 

* And I said another element, meaning more than one issue. Oline also didn’t help,  but there were also a lot of moving pieces there. 

[Solid84]

7 minutes ago, HOZER said:

Yep his play calling was horrendous. 9/8, didn’t make the playoffs. Ol’ run it up the middle Reich calls were predictable, if it wasn’t for an above average RB(in 21), they wouldn’t have gone as far as they did. Wentz didn’t help.

 

* And I said another element, meaning more than one issue. Oline also didn’t help,  but there were also a lot of moving pieces there. 

The Oline was a problem for Wentz in '21 because the pass blocking was bad (pff grade of 59.2) even if the run blocking was great (pff grade of 78.6). But again, the Oline only gets to be an excuse for JT...

 

Ironically when the run blocking was average in '22 (pff grade of 62.0) JT was average as well..

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I think the difference is that the Colts have no intention of paying a RB top money in SSs offense.   They may pay Pitt if he plays like a top WR.  And both players know this, so they are taking different approaches. 

 

If JT produces tape this year that questions his ability to play elite in a modern NFL offense, it will compete with his stellar 2021 season that he wants to be known for.  OTOH, Pittman is not in that position since he has never had an elite season.      

 

 

I think they had every intention of paying JT at the end of the year.  They still might.  They just wanted to be sure he returned healthy and performed up to his standards.  Last year he dealt with the injuries and one of the worse OL in the league.  Not even average.  Throw in awful quarterback play and we had a disaster.  Doomed from the start.  SS would love to have JT as his lead back.  With average rb and OL talent teams revert to rbbc by necessity.  SS said you pass to score and run to win.  With JT as his lead back I think he would be very happy and confident in the number of wins he could chalk up.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Does this mean he is getting ready to play for colts. From Taylor’s Instagram story.

 

 

Means he’s healthy… so the Colts forced his bluff to be exposed. Now, does he play or get traded

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think they had every intention of paying JT at the end of the year.  They still might.  They just wanted to be sure he returned healthy and performed up to his standards.  Last year he dealt with the injuries and one of the worse OL in the league.  Not even average.  Throw in awful quarterback play and we had a disaster.  Doomed from the start.  SS would love to have JT as his lead back.  With average rb and OL talent teams revert to rbbc by necessity.  SS said you pass to score and run to win.  With JT as his lead back I think he would be very happy and confident in the number of wins he could chalk up.

I agree with all this but I also think this could have been communicated better and I think JT should have handled his side much better

8 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

The Oline was a problem for Wentz in '21 because the pass blocking was bad (pff grade of 59.2) even if the run blocking was great (pff grade of 78.6). But again, the Oline only gets to be an excuse for JT...

 

Ironically when the run blocking was average in '22 (pff grade of 62.0) JT was average as well..

Wentz also made the OL worse by holding onto the ball FOREVER

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Taylor looks really fast.

 

 

Doesn’t really look that fast

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

The Oline was a problem for Wentz in '21 because the pass blocking was bad (pff grade of 59.2) even if the run blocking was great (pff grade of 78.6). But again, the Oline only gets to be an excuse for JT...

 

Ironically when the run blocking was average in '22 (pff grade of 62.0) JT was average as well..

 

Pass blocking was bad in 2021, but Wentz's play can still be evaluated independently of the OL. If anyone wants to give him a slight break because of the bad OL play, that's fine, but we watched him do his job poorly as well. 

 

The Deon Jackson experiment has a really small sample size so far. Not ready to make a declaration on that either way so far. 

[HOZER]

6 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

The Oline was a problem for Wentz in '21 because the pass blocking was bad (pff grade of 59.2) even if the run blocking was great (pff grade of 78.6). But again, the Oline only gets to be an excuse for JT...

 

Ironically when the run blocking was average in '22 (pff grade of 62.0) JT was average as well..

 I’m not thrilled with the whole JT situation,  in fact I was ready to see him go and was hoping someone would make an offer Ballard couldn’t refuse, but it didn’t happen. I believe in being a man of your word, he signed a contract, play it out, that simple. I think a something’s going on with him and he wants a payday now. But for anyone to insinuate that a healthy JT is average 

 

 

 

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Pass blocking was bad in 2021, but Wentz's play can still be evaluated independently of the OL. If anyone wants to give him a slight break because of the bad OL play, that's fine, but we watched him do his job poorly as well. 

 

The Deon Jackson experiment has a really small sample size so far. Not ready to make a declaration on that either way so far. 

Oh indeed, and I didn't mean to make it look like Wentz was faultless - that's on me.

 

Deon Jackson did bad against the Jags, but we've played one game. It's not really fair to judge him on that alone.

[Solid84]

2 minutes ago, HOZER said:

 I’m not thrilled with the whole JT situation,  in fact I was ready to see him go and was hoping someone would make an offer Ballard couldn’t refuse, but it didn’t happen. I believe in being a man of your word, he signed a contract, play it out, that simple. I think a something’s going on with him and he wants a payday now. But for anyone to insinuate that a healthy JT is average 

 

 

 

Dude, come on...

 

I think JT is great, but like any other RB he's extremely dependent on the Oline blocking for him and if they don't he's not going to be worth the price we will have to pay for him.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree with that concept because they have a top 5 QB in the league. Our situation is different.

DeAndre Swift is in rookie deal still, 4th year, as a second round drafted player, of course his cap number is very low. That's like saying JT would cost only 4 million this year, so he comes cheap as RBs come. 

 

That's very cherry picking from Mike Florio or whoever wrote that. And, Swift is better RB than most give credit for, and Lions just didn't utilize him well before or after injuries.

 

And, the article didn't say that RBBC didn't work out for Colts or Vikings so far.

 

So, it's the combo of all the cherry pickings, to make better argument for their favor.

 

I thought we've heard this here recently "to make their argument look better"   

[w87r]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

You (and others) argue he was hurt in '22. I took the games (we at least know) he wasn't hurt to show his production without the injury element

I see why you tried to split pre from post injury stats, but the only problem with that is, he averaged 4.8ypc the rest of the year on almost 4x more carries, after he was hurt. So you're taking away his best play of the season.

 

So it kinda defeats the purpose for whatever argument (sorry haven't read through it all thoroughly), it is supposed to help support.

 

 

Seems as though, you are saying he was having a down year even before he got hurt?  Which is fair, just don't see how it justified the bigger argument when he played a lot better afterwards?

 

 

 

I don't even think Taylor had a "down" year. Obviously total yards is lower because he missed games with injury, TDs cause offense as a whole struggled, coupled with injuries. However, he still had good numbers in the games he played. He was 5th in rushing yards per game.

 

 

Anyway, back to regular scheduled programming.

 

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think they had every intention of paying JT at the end of the year.  They still might.  They just wanted to be sure he returned healthy and performed up to his standards.

I think when Ballard said that we'll wait and see, I think he meant that.  That doesn't sound like a GM saying that they intend to pay a player at the end of the year.

 

35 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

 SS would love to have JT as his lead back.

 

If JT shows more workout tape of him running routes...that's a good step.  If he can show another tape of him pass blocking a charging player, that's another step.   So yes, it could very well turn out that SS wants JT to be his lead RB.  

 

And the question was never really about whether or not SS wanted him as his lead RB.  He may very well have wanted him to be.   Its being the lead RB at the price everybody thinks JT will demand...given the things he does at a high priced level, and things he may not do as well as other RBs.

 

29 minutes ago, csmopar said:

 With average rb and OL talent teams revert to rbbc by necessity.

Right.  Necessity being that salary cap thing, and the need to spend money at other positions.

 

Edit @csmopar.  Oops, I somehow quoted you instead of Richard.

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think when Ballard said that we'll wait and see, I think he meant that.  That doesn't sound like a GM saying that they intend to pay a player at the end of the year.

 

 

If JT shows more workout tape of him running routes...that's a good step.  If he can show another tape of him pass blocking a charging player, that's another step.   So yes, it could very well turn out that SS wants JT to be his lead RB.  

 

And the question was never really about whether or not SS wanted him as his lead RB.  He may very well have wanted him to be.   Its being the lead RB at the price everybody thinks JT will demand.

 

Right.  Necessity being that salary cap thing, and the need to spend money at other positions.

 

Edit @csmopar.  Oops, I somehow quoted you instead of Richard.

Was gonna say I didn’t type that

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Was gonna say I didn’t type that

I've never had that happen before, nor can I figure out how it happened.  LOL.

[HOZER]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I've never had that happen before, nor can I figure out how it happened.  LOL.

I think something was glitching, something I posted never showed up, and it wasn’t offensive either, lol

[Solid84]

23 minutes ago, w87r said:

I see why you tried to split pre from post injury stats, but the only problem with that is, he averaged 4.8ypc the rest of the year on almost 4x more carries, after he was hurt. So you're taking away his best play of the season.

 

So it kinda defeats the purpose for whatever argument (sorry haven't read through it all thoroughly), it is supposed to help support.

 

 

Seems as though, you are saying he was having a down year even before he got hurt?  Which is fair, just don't see how it justified the bigger argument when he played a lot better afterwards?

 

 

 

I don't even think Taylor had a "down" year. Obviously total yards is lower because he missed games with injury, TDs cause offense as a whole struggled, coupled with injuries. However, he still had good numbers in the games he played. He was 5th in rushing yards per game.

 

 

Anyway, back to regular scheduled programming.

 

I guess to sum up my points across several threads I will say this.

 

I think the Oline is more important, for both the run game and overall, than any RB.

Rather than pay top dollar for an RB I'd rather we had a couple of good RBs and a good/great run blocking Oline than a great RB and an average/good run blocking Oline.

We're close to the cap and paying a RB will be a detriment to the team long term.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I guess to sum up my points across several threads I will say this.

 

I think the Oline is more important, for both the run game and overall, than any RB.

Rather than pay top dollar for an RB I'd rather we had a couple of good RBs and a good/great run blocking Oline than a great RB and an average/good run blocking Oline.

We're close to the cap and paying a RB will be a detriment to the team long term.

We’re only close due to Matt Ryan’s dead money, it’ll be gone next year

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

We’re only close due to Matt Ryan’s dead money, it’ll be gone next year

That's true but we have other contracts coming up the could take a big chunk of what's left - that includes Pittman.

[csmopar]

Just now, Solid84 said:

That's true but we have other contracts coming up the could take a big chunk of what's left - that includes Pittman.

I do not disagree. I don’t like the idea of paying Taylor right now. As of now, though, we have nearly 80 million in cap space not counting roll over for next year with 41 players on contract. Pittman and JT are really the only starters up for extensions so we all be fine . 

[w87r]

Just now, csmopar said:

I do not disagree. I don’t like the idea of paying Taylor right now. As of now, though, we have nearly 80 million in cap space not counting roll over for next year with 41 players on contract. Pittman and JT are really the only starters up for extensions so we all be fine . 

Stewart 

Moore

Blackmon

 

 

 

 

We will be fine, but there are quite a few starters.

[csmopar]

10 minutes ago, w87r said:

Stewart 

Moore

Blackmon

 

 

 

 

We will be fine, but there are quite a few starters.

I see us signing Grover but letting the others walk 

[w87r]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

I see us signing Grover but letting the others walk 

Yeah, very well could be. 

 

 

Cap Space: $80m 

Pittman - $20-$25m

Taylor - $12-$14m

Stewart $14-$18m

 

Cap Space Left: $22-36m, if we were to sign these guys to these numbers.

 

 

We're good, not worried about cap next year, in the slightest.

 

We are set up nicely.

[richard pallo]

5 minutes ago, w87r said:

Yeah, very well could be. 

 

 

Cap Space: $80m 

Pittman - $20-$25m

Taylor - $12-$14m

Stewart $14-$18m

 

Cap Space Left: $22-36m, if we were to sign these guys to these numbers.

 

 

We're good, not worried about cap next year, in the slightest.

 

We are set up nicely.

We’re in good shape.  No Quarterback to pay for quite some time too.  We can handle Taylor’s contract easily.  All of this fretting over his contract makes no sense to me.  He’s our only playmaker right now.  As my late mother use to say when we were growing up.  “Wake up England “. She was a war bride.  God bless her.

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

We’re in good shape.  No Quarterback to pay for quite some time too.  We can handle Taylor’s contract easily.  All of this fretting over his contract makes no sense to me.  He’s our only playmaker right now.  As my late mother use to say when we were growing up.  “Wake up England “. She was a war bride.  God bless her.

We’ll see if in a month what happens 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

I guess to sum up my points across several threads I will say this.

 

I think the Oline is more important, for both the run game and overall, than any RB.

Rather than pay top dollar for an RB I'd rather we had a couple of good RBs and a good/great run blocking Oline than a great RB and an average/good run blocking Oline.

We're close to the cap and paying a RB will be a detriment to the team long term.

I agree with this.  I will add:

 

I'd always love to have a RB that can outrun the D over 90 yards.  But, I'd rather have a RB who was very good blocker and pass catcher but might get caught from behind after 30/40 yards.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If this defense looks good all year I hope we can keep everyone.  I also forgot Paye has a fifth yesr option so we could put him off a year.

[Indyfan4life]

I just want JT and AR together. It will only make the offense better. 

[GoColts8818]

I mean averaging 4.0 or more ypc is good.  It’s sure better than 1.5 or whatever the Colts averaged at the running back position Sunday.  

[Solid84]

35 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I mean averaging 4.0 or more ypc is good.  It’s sure better than 1.5 or whatever the Colts averaged at the running back position Sunday.  

No one is saying it isn’t…

[colts89]

Seems like there are positive signs that JT and Ballard are getting something done. It'd be great for Richardson's early years if he has a player like JT to carry a decent portion of the offense.

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 hours ago, iuswingman said:

 

It is optimistic to think we don't know what Taylor is because RBs tend to peak early and then decline.    

 

I think what is also missed trying to compare Taylor to Wentz is the depth at the position and how much it effects winning.   

 

1) If you lose an elite QB then where is your team?  (we saw that after Luck left)

 

2) If you lose an elite RB then where is your team?  (seeing that now)

 

While 2 definitely hurts, 1 is much more devastating.

 

Most teams are prioritizing positions that require top talent to succeed and finding that RB isn't one of those positions.

Of course if you lose an elite QB it is disastrous. Losing an elite RB isn't as bad if you have an elite QB. Wentz was not elite, not even close. If a team has a QB that is outside of the top 15, having an elite RB is very important. Not sure why a few in here can't understand that. 

 

If we had Andrew Luck, of course I would be OK with RB by committee as long as the RB's don't stink. Not hard to understand what I am trying to convey.

[holeymoley99]

Looking like JT may return and play starting week 5, we need to win this week which we should. Would be nice to beat a Ravens team without their star rb but will be an underdog. The following week very good chance for W vs Rams.   If we are 2-2 when JT returns the season gets very interesting.