Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[Superman]

Just now, csmopar said:

Here’s a question for you, PUP or IR

 

Start with PUP, and make it clear that if he's not ready to go in four weeks, we're considering IR. And that would come with an injury split, so his $4.3m goes down to something like $1m.

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, w87r said:

****disclaimer, not official news

 

 

Does Destin know something, he has proven to me to at least have some hind of something. Lol. Or just throwing something out there?

 

 

Anyway, yay or nay?

 

 

 

If seeing random projected trades is bothering anyone let me know.

 

I just like seeing what outside parties are throwing around as potential packages. Something to look at and discuss.

That seems like the Colts would be settling IMO.  They shouldn’t settle on this IMO.

Hey we did it!  We hit 100!

[CR91]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

For the purposes of this discussion, I'm not assuming anything. I'm taking him at his word, and putting him on PUP. (Another option, if the team wants to be confrontational, is to put him on NFI. That's a whole different discussion.)

 

The alternative is that you activate him, then fine him for not practicing. And then he can go to the media and say that you're trying to force him to play even though he's not physically ready. And the NFLPA can file a grievance, etc. And this already unpleasant situation becomes even more noisy and acrimonious. What would you have gained?

 

Not saying that can't happen, but you realize the colts have all the leverage? If they really wanted Taylor to practice, they can get the best ankle doctors in the world to clear him especially since it's 9 months since the injury occured. Pain is not something Taylor could use as a defense. Everyone experiences pain and play through it. If hes worried about pain, then retire and end this nonsense.

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Here’s a question for you, PUP or IR

PUP

 

We would have to carry him on the final 53 to place on IR with ability to return.

 

If placed on before.he would be out for the season for us. Which he would probably seek a injury settlement to be released to play somewhere else. And thats why this option isn't happening.

[jvan1973]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

Not saying that can't happen, but you realize the colts have all the leverage? If they really wanted Taylor to practice, they can get the best ankle doctors in the world and to clear him especially since it's 9 months since the injury occured.. Pain is not something Taylor could use as a defense. Everyone experiences pain and plays through it. If hes worried about pain, then retire and end this nonsense.

So you know the rules of forcing a player coming off a surgery to play even if they say it still hurts works?

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

So you know the rules of forcing a player coming off a surgery to play even if they say it still hurts works?

Yeah that’s just asking the NFLPA to file a grievance and the NFL to drop the hammer on you.  After Tau last year the NFL wouldn’t play with something like that.

[danlhart87]

Would you do this deal?

 

Bears get Jonathan Taylor

Colts get 24' 2nd and Roschon Johnson

[CR91]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

So you know the rules of forcing a player coming off a surgery to play even if they say it still hurts works?

 

I not saying to force him to play. I think he's hurt, but I also think he's on PUP for more then just saying his ankle hurts. 

[danlhart87]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

That seems like the Colts would be settling IMO.  They shouldn’t settle on this IMO.

Hey we did it!  We hit 100!

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's not hard to understand Taylor's motivation for being on PUP through training camp, though. Right? This is the strategy that was discussed during the RB Zoom call just a couple months ago.

Yes.  I think JT is prepared to do whatever it takes to play the system so as to not play for the Colts.  Even foregoing game checks until October which would tend to force a decision.

 

If he's cut, he'll get re-employed immediately.   I think JT is betting about $4.3M that Irsay will not string him along the entire season.

[w87r]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

Would you do this deal?

 

Bears get Jonathan Taylor

Colts get 24' 2nd and Roschon Johnson

Probably ask for an additional pick. 3rd 

[jvan1973]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

I not saying to force him to play. I think he's hurt, but I also think he's on PUP for more then just saying his ankle hurts. 

You may be right.   I guess we will see if he passes a physical for a trade

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  I think JT is prepared to do whatever it takes to play the system so as to not play for the Colts.  Even foregoing game checks until October which would tend to force a decision.

 

If he's cut, he'll get re-employed immediately.   I think JT is betting about $4.3M that Irsay will not string him along the entire season.

4 million isn't going to sway the team at all.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Keep them coming.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

4 million isn't going to sway the team at all.  

Correct, but there is roster spot considerations and overall team building/unity for the new era.  If Irsay has decided JT is not part of the future, I don't think he's going to have him hang around past October just to send a message or to play a few games in a throw away season.

[Indeee]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Then bring back Herbert in return. So stupid of the bears. Herbert is a beast

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Not saying that can't happen, but you realize the colts have all the leverage? If they really wanted Taylor to practice, they can get the best ankle doctors in the world to clear him especially since it's 9 months since the injury occured. Pain is not something Taylor could use as a defense. Everyone experiences pain and play through it. If hes worried about pain, then retire and end this nonsense.

 

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

I not saying to force him to play. I think he's hurt, but I also think he's on PUP for more then just saying his ankle hurts. 

 

Yeah, Colts have the leverage already. So what do they gain from activating him? It just makes you feel better that they stood their ground and fined the player? And then what?

 

In reality, I don't know whether Taylor is hurt or not. If he is, months after what should have been a routine operation, that's a huge problem. If the Colts can trade him right now with a reasonable return, without committing big money to him, that's probably best case scenario. If he's actually hurt.

 

And if he's not hurt -- and I suspect the real deal here is that he strategically manipulated the situation so he could land on PUP and avoid being fined for not practicing -- there's really no way for the Colts to prove it. Unlike you, I think that if a player tells the doctors that he's still experiencing persistent pain in the ankle that he injured last season, the responsible course of action is for the doctors to listen to the player and not clear him for practice. That's true even if the team thinks the player is being dishonest about his condition.

 

If the team really wanted to be confrontational with a player that they think is lying about an injury, the way to do it is to place him on NFI. They aren't forcing him to practice or play, but they would be forcing him to provide evidence supporting his condition, and to prove that his condition is the result of football related activities. Still, there's little gained for the team. 

 

The Colts allowed Taylor to stand his ground, and now they're at the point where they can turn up the heat, or just wash their hands. And I think they're using the next few days to determine which course makes the most sense for the team. And if they can get a solid return for Taylor in a trade, I think that's a good resolution. 

[w87r]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

No surprises here.

The bigger question is, will the Bears with all their cap space. Make him a huge offer?

 

 

See the thing is, and I mentioned it earlier, that only gives the Colts more leverage on the draft compensation.

 

If you're (other team) willing to give him a big deal you better be willing to give us a big offer.

[csmopar]

15 minutes ago, w87r said:

PUP

 

We would have to carry him on the final 53 to place on IR with ability to return.

 

If placed on before.he would be out for the season for us. Which he would probably seek an injury settlement to be released to play somewhere else. And thats why this option isn't happening.

 Wouldn’t have to grant it

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  I think JT is prepared to do whatever it takes to play the system so as to not play for the Colts.  Even foregoing game checks until October which would tend to force a decision.

 

If he's cut, he'll get re-employed immediately.   I think JT is betting about $4.3M that Irsay will not string him along the entire season.

 

Ehh, I think the Colts would still hold the cards. If they put him on PUP to start the season, and he's still not practicing after four weeks, they can IR him, and that $4.3m can get reduced pretty significantly through an injury split. And even if they don't go that route, they can still tag him in 2024. 

[csmopar]

12 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Would you do this deal?

 

Bears get Jonathan Taylor

Colts get 24' 2nd and Roschon Johnson

No

[Superman]

16 minutes ago, w87r said:

We would have to carry him on the final 53 to place on IR with ability to return.

 

Only for a few days... Once Week 1 starts, they can use IR with a return designation.

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

If they offer one of their 1sts I think he is going to the Bears

[w87r]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

 Wouldn’t have to grant it

NFLPA arbitration, and that would turn this thing worse than it already is.

 

 

There really isn't a reason to. Just keep him on PUP. Savings isn't worth the headache.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, csmopar said:

No

I don’t mean this to sound confrontational so I apologize if I do but what deal Would you accept?  I am legit asking not trying to be a jerk.  

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

The Colts allowed Taylor to stand his ground, and now they're at the point where they can turn up the heat, or just wash their hands. And I think they're using the next few days to determine which course makes the most sense for the team. And if they can get a solid return for Taylor in a trade, I think that's a good resolution. 

Yup.  And if no trade happens by Tuesday, I think JT's value diminishes.  There is always the possibility that a team needs a RB as the season moves along, but there will be a time during this season that JT will become pretty worthless to the Colts.

[jvan1973]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Correct, but there is roster spot considerations and overall team building/unity for the new era.  If Irsay has decided JT is not part of the future, I don't think he's going to have him hang around past October just to send a message or to play a few games in a throw away season.

When has Irsay mentioned he didn't want JT here?  Quite the contrary 

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Only for a few days... Once Week 1 starts, they can use IR with a return designation.

Yeah, I know, just saying he would have to be on there, costing someone else that spot.

 

 

Hopefully we could get him back right after, but maybe not.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

Any trade including Taylor is a blockbuster, regardless who else is involved.

And, if the trade involves Taylor and a First round pick, that would be Boulevard Buster. 

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ehh, I think the Colts would still hold the cards. If they put him on PUP to start the season, and he's still not practicing after four weeks, they can IR him, and that $4.3m can get reduced pretty significantly through an injury split. And even if they don't go that route, they can still tag him in 2024. 

They ain't gonna tag him, IMO.  They don't want him associated with the Colts anymore and taint ARs press copy.  JMO from promotional Jimmy's point of view.

[csmopar]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t mean this to sound confrontational so I apologize if I do but what deal Would you accept?  I am legit asking not trying to be a jerk.  

Honestly,  the closest I’ve seen yet is the two 2nds, though I passed cause i want more for 2024, but if that was the best offer, I could accept that. 
 

another deal I would accept would be a starting caliber RG/RT with a 2nd or a potential high 3rd. Beyond that, I’d PuP him and then tag his behind next year

[1959Colts]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/tuesday-deadline-suggests-colts-might-be-willing-to-take-the-best-offer-for-jonathan-taylor

Tuesday deadline suggests Colts might be willing to take the best offer for Jonathan Taylor

By

Mike Florio

 

 ...the Colts have given Taylor until Tuesday, August 29 to find a “suitable offer.”

Why Tuesday? Why not just keep him until they get the offer they want? All it takes is, for example, a Week 1 injury to a starting running back on a contending team to create a demand that might not exist.

What happens if Tuesday comes and goes without a “suitable offer”? Taylor plays for the Colts, without complaint or concern? He forgets about wanting out, even after he had a chance to escape?

It’s almost seems as if the Colts have decided to take the best offer they get by Tuesday, and move on. That the deadline isn’t for Taylor but for anyone else who might be thinking time is on their side. The message, quite possibly, is that the Colts will be making a deal on Tuesday. So Tuesday is the day to make a move.

Holder also added that the Colts have offers from two unnamed teams. Some in league circles would say in response that, if the teams aren’t named, they don’t exist.

 

The substance of the offers hasn’t been reported. The Colts reportedly want a first-round pick. The biggest unknown is what does Taylor want? Unless his new team addresses that issue, they’ll potentially inherit the same issues the Colts might be trying to shed.

We’ll see how it plays out. Apparently, it will all end within the next six days — one way or the other.

[csmopar]

Just now, DougDew said:

They ain't gonna tag him, IMO.  They don't want him associated with the Colts anymore and taint ARs press copy.  JMO from promotional Jimmy's point of view.

Very possible 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

When has Irsay mentioned he didn't want JT here?  Quite the contrary 

Would you say that you DON'T want JT if you were Irsay?  

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

They ain't gonna tag him, IMO.  They don't want him associated with the Colts anymore and taint ARs press copy.  JMO from promotional Jimmy's point of view.

JT is a commodity.   He is a playmaker.  They aren't letting him go without compensation.   

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Honestly,  the closest I’ve seen yet is the two 2nds, though I passed cause i want more for 2024, but if that was the best offer, I could accept that. 
 

another deal I would accept would be a starting caliber RG/RT with a 2nd or a potential high 3rd. Beyond that, I’d PuP him and then tag his behind next year

Fair enough.  I was legit curious what you thought was fair.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Would you say that you DON'T want JT if you were Irsay?  

No.  Because he is a playmaker and teams want playmakers

[CR91]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

Yeah, Colts have the leverage already. So what do they gain from activating him? It just makes you feel better that they stood their ground and fined the player? And then what?

 

In reality, I don't know whether Taylor is hurt or not. If he is, months after what should have been a routine operation, that's a huge problem. If the Colts can trade him right now with a reasonable return, without committing big money to him, that's probably best case scenario. If he's actually hurt.

 

And if he's not hurt -- and I suspect the real deal here is that he strategically manipulated the situation so he could land on PUP and avoid being fined for not practicing -- there's really no way for the Colts to prove it. Unlike you, I think that if a player tells the doctors that he's still experiencing persistent pain in the ankle that he injured last season, the responsible course of action is for the doctors to listen to the player and not clear him for practice. That's true even if the team thinks the player is being dishonest about his condition.

 

If the team really wanted to be confrontational with a player that they think is lying about an injury, the way to do it is to place him on NFI. They aren't forcing him to practice or play, but they would be forcing him to provide evidence supporting his condition, and to prove that his condition is the result of football related activities. Still, there's little gained for the team. 

 

The Colts allowed Taylor to stand his ground, and now they're at the point where they can turn up the heat, or just wash their hands. And I think they're using the next few days to determine which course makes the most sense for the team. And if they can get a solid return for Taylor in a trade, I think that's a good resolution. 

 

I wanna preface by saying I don't think Taylor is lying nor do I think he's manipulating the situation. If that's the case, he'd be black balling himself out of the league. I also don't think any team would even consider trading for Taylor without a complete workup of his injury history. Clearly the dolphins like Taylor's medical enough to make an offer which tells me either he's fine or the Dolphins don't think it's serious. If Taylor is traded and he practices day one after being traded, I'll be the first one here calling him a lying piece of turd and good riddance.

[csmopar]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Fair enough.  I was legit curious what you thought was fair.

For me, I’m setting the cost high. Why? For two reasons, it sets the tone that we’re not gonna be bullied just cause the market for RBs is low. And the second is because the team trading for him his getting an MVP level player when healthy. Honestly, I wouldn’t even consider what the Panthers got for Mcaffery