Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

They are correct, as are you.  This entire situation is due to JT being a limited RB, not a fully-skilled RB in the ways a RB needs to be in today's NFL.  Like that one tweet suggested, JT is looking to get traded to 1997.

 

The reason he did not have a great 2022 is precisely because he is limited.  The NFL knows this.  His success....the crux of his perception of value....came from having a 2021 season where he busted off a bunch of big runs for TDs midseason that no other RB in the NFL could have done.  

 

That's a great skill to have.  But that's not what CMC and Kamara get paid to do.  JT is a bit of an outlier, and there are few market comparables by which to set his value.  In cases like this in business, the buyer sets the market, so JTs value is truely going to be based upon which team wants to pay him money for what he has demonstrated he can do.  There is no real established market for a really fast downhill RB.  There is no "Kellys Blue Book" for an agent to use as support.

 

Sure, maybe he has the skills to be Kamara.  It hasn't been fully demonstrated yet, so he should get paid based upon the desire of a team to run him up the gut in hopes he breaks a long run.  You pay him elite money for what he shows he can do. if any team wants that skill as the centerpiece of their running game.  And you don't pay elite money on spec.

 

Great post Doug.  I love the Kelly bluebook thing.  He is a unicorn.  A limited skill set unicorn.  He's hard to price and value and yes most of his value was in a 7-8 game span in the middle of one season.  

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

The team wont go by that logic.  He's signed and has talent that can help us win games this season.  

 

They dont have to do anything about the contract until next season, even if he tired to hold out.

I'd kinda be surprised if JT plays.   I think he'll find a way not to.  Then maybe cut mid-season.

 

I think the crux of this is that JT does NOT want to show the NFL how much he is NOT CMC or Kamara.  He'll have a better shot with a new team next season by lying low and selling what he did in the past, rather than playing in a 2023 season that shows him being outplayed in a modern Philly SB-type offense by a rookie 5th round pick from Northwestern.

 

He's not just standing on the sidelines. He's watching the offense and the other RBs.  And has dug his heels in further each day as to indicate he no longer wants to play for the Colts.

 

It might be just posturing.  Or it might be that he sees himself as not a great fit.  And this saga started after SS was hired and Hull was drafted.  

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, ShuteAt168 said:

All due respect, my engagements and comments are sincere. There’s a lot of knowledge on this board, including on your posts. But you always play the “these discussions are insincere” card or variation of when you receive pushback. Your best bit is demanding ONLY FACTS from everyone else but opinions are ok for you.
 

“NINETY NINE percent of the locker room thinks this!!!”

”Really, source?”

”Could be 97, 96, who cares.” 
“Source?” 
“You’re insincere. I wrote about the NFL.” 

 

Pretty revealing idn't it?

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, RollerColt said:

Agreed. Looks like he'll sit out for the season. 

 I do find it funny when a player says they will sit out. So,he wants more money and that is the issue and apparently he is willing to kiss off $4.5 million which he will never make back!!  Does that make sense to you??They always threaten and always come back withexception of Bell and that was an absolute disaster for him financially.

[BlackTiger]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'd kinda be surprised if JT plays.   I think he'll find a way not to.  Then maybe cut mid-season.

 

He cant just sit out under the new agreement, he will never hit free agency

 

They are not going to cut him, the team doesnt need to.  he pretty much has to play

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

He cant just sit out under the new agreement, he will never hit free agency

 

They are not going to cut him, the team doesnt need to.  he pretty much has to play

He'll show up.  How much he is ready to play is another story.

 

I think by mid season they decide to stop paying the unreliable third stringer $4.5M.

[BlackTiger]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

unreliable third stringer $4.5M.

Thats just ridiculous and not true.  hes not a third stringer

[TimetobringDfence!]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

The only thing that makes sense to me is maybe the agent... or JT unofficially mentioned something about his back trying to hint to the Colts that he can always invent an injury and sit out the season, but didn't put in any report officially. But that doesn't jive with the report. Just listen and read to Holder's reporting. If what he's saying is true, I have hard time believing Taylor. Holder has details. He's talking about specific days, he's talking about them doing an actual exam on Taylor to confirm and he's saying what they saw was not an injury that happened during his play with the Colts... even if it is super minor... it means they saw something... 

 

Someone has to be telling a very very nasty false story for... some reason... I don't know what reason. Or Taylor just got caught trying to prime the environment for sitting instead of playing. Someone is lying here. I don't know who... 

I don't believe the Colts would falsify this because that would be very detrimental to the team. I believe JT told the team and it was hush hush because they respected him and wanted him to earn and get back to health for the season. But then Taylor saw green and decided he wanted money over later and is threatening a hold out. So the Colts are thinking we did you a solid and kept the injury disclosed but since you are playing hardball we are going to play back. Touche Jim Irsay...

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 I do find it funny when a player says they will sit out. So,he wants more money and that is the issue and apparently he is willing to kiss off $4.5 million which he will never make back!!  Does that make sense to you??They always threaten and always come back withexception of Bell and that was an absolute disaster for him financially.

It's up and down trying to make sense of what he's doing. I would've made my case known back in spring (which it sounds like he did) and then play this year out with the hopes that a deal would've been made mid-season.

 

We're slowly piecing more of this puzzle together though. He's got something going on with him physically for sure. He also, as Doug has stated, is in an entirely different offense that doesn't need a bell cow type of back and probably sees the writing on the wall. He wants his money now because he's worried the window for a big payday is slipping. Problem is he's being too macro level about it and not seeing what's directly in front of him.

 

All parties involved are probably to blame for this. I can kind of see both sides of the argument, but we're still talking about astronomical numbers of money between a billionaire and a millionaire... My sympathy has waned...

 

One thing I really don't agree with JT spitting at fans who were asking him to stay.  Pretty low class if that was what he was indeed doing. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I'd kinda be surprised if JT plays.   I think he'll find a way not to.  Then maybe cut mid-season.

 

I think the crux of this is that JT does NOT want to show the NFL how much he is NOT CMC or Kamara.  He'll have a better shot with a new team next season by lying low and selling what he did in the past, rather than playing in a 2023 season that shows him being outplayed in a modern Philly SB-type offense by a rookie 5th round pick from Northwestern.

 

He's not just standing on the sidelines. He's watching the offense and the other RBs.  And has dug his heels in further each day as to indicate he no longer wants to play for the Colts.

 

It might be just posturing.  Or it might be that he sees himself as not a great fit.  And this saga started after SS was hired and Hull was drafted.  

I have always stated that just based on what Steichen did in Philly, Taylor's skill set is not a fit for this offence or better yet not a fit for based on we all think Taylor wants per year. I see Steichen as a plug and play coach  when it comes to the rb position. Ballard may have initially been all over Taylor as wanting to resign him to an extension, he kind of alluded to that. Then he had a sit down with Steichen and Irsay and Ballard may have done a complete 180, which is allowed. New coach, new philosophy and scheme. Look at what Philly just did with Saunders. You would think that their philosophy would rub off on him and I think Steichen is more focused on the wr and te positions and getting value

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Thats just ridiculous and not true.  hes not a third stringer

If JT has a bad attitude and mails it in, do you think any HC would keep him as the 1st stringer?  Its happened before where the most talented guy is sitting on the bench because of a combination of reasons.

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Agreed. Looks like he'll sit out for the season. 

That would suck for the Colts.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

If you look at the FA list next year and the RB draft class next year, JT is not getting paid by anyone unless he puts up a monster this year.  

 

And even if he does he likely will face what Barkley just got.  Nada. 

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, RollerColt said:

It's up and down trying to make sense of what he's doing. I would've made my case known back in spring (which it sounds like he did) and then play this year out with the hopes that a deal would've been made mid-season.

 

We're slowly piecing more of this puzzle together though. He's got something going on with him physically for sure. He also, as Doug has stated, is in an entirely different offense that doesn't need a bell cow type of back and probably sees the writing on the wall. He wants his money now because he's worried the window for a big payday is slipping. Problem is he's being too macro level about it and not seeing what's directly in front of him.

 

All parties involved are probably to blame for this. I can kind of see both sides of the argument, but we're still talking about astronomical numbers of money between a billionaire and a millionaire... My sympathy has waned...

 

One thing I really don't agree with JT spitting at fans who were asking him to stay.  Pretty low class if that was what he was indeed doing. 

By all accounts, Taylor is an incredibly intelligent man, as he  could have went to Harvard. Is sitting out the season the move that an intelligent man would make? However, maybe he is more prideful/stubborn  than intelligent? Logic usually wins over and it would not shock me if Taylor fired his agent. This is always a good way of resetting the dialogue between player and team. 

[RollerColt]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

By all accounts, Taylor is an incredibly intelligent man, as he  could have went to Harvard. Is sitting out the season the move that an intelligent man would make? However, maybe he is more prideful/stubborn  than intelligent? Logic usually wins over and it would not shock me if Taylor fired his agent. This is always a good way of resetting the dialogue between player and team. 

I think this is more of a protest through Taylor and his agent than just the money alone. They want to change the market for all RBs in the league. 

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I don't believe the Colts would falsify this because that would be very detrimental to the team. I believe JT told the team and it was hush hush because they respected him and wanted him to earn and get back to health for the season. But then Taylor saw green and decided he wanted money over later and is threatening a hold out. So the Colts are thinking we did you a solid and kept the injury disclosed but since you are playing hardball we are going to play back. Touche Jim Irsay...

They have plausible deniability right now. Noone has filed anything official. They are still not officially claiming Taylor reported back injury or that they found a back injury. If they do and send Taylor to the NFI list, they better have good evidence for it. But if they are lying about it right now, then I think they've crossed a line. I don't like this whole situation, but this to me will be a very low point for this franchise and we(and especially the one who's leaking this information) would deserve all the vitriol directed at them. 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I have always stated that just based on what Steichen did in Philly, Taylor's skill set is not a fit for this offence or better yet not a fit for based on we all think Taylor wants per year. I see Steichen as a plug and play coach  when it comes to the rb position. Ballard may have initially been all over Taylor as wanting to resign him to an extension, he kind of alluded to that. Then he had a sit down with Steichen and Irsay and Ballard may have done a complete 180, which is allowed. New coach, new philosophy and scheme. Look at what Philly just did with Saunders. You would think that their philosophy would rub off on him and I think Steichen is more focused on the wr and te positions and getting value

Folks on this board simply overvalue JT.  Just like they did Marlon Mack after Mack had a decent season.

 

Ballard drafted JT in the last year of Mack's contract.  One straight ahead runner to replace the existing straight ahead runner in Franks' system.   That's a seemless transition.  Now he's drafted a pass catching RB in the final year of JTs contract, IMO, signifying a change of role for the RBs

 

When Ballard and Irsay say...lets see how it goes.....they know damm well that there is probably a 50/50 chance that JT sucks in SSs system.   JT knows this too, and knows that Ballard knows it, and doesn't want to take the risk that the rest of the NFL will know it too after the season, so he wants to be traded now instead of waiting to the end of the season to find a new team, on the heels of playing in a system that he is not suited for.

 

Its best for him to find that new team now, regardless of the money.

 

Its why he keeps raising his price for the Colts.  He doesn't want to play in this system.  You, me, and him all know why he doesn't want to.

 

I mean, I can't predict.  He might cave and report and play hard.  I would simply be surprised if he has a great season.

[BlackTiger]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If JT has a bad attitude and mails it in, do you think any HC would keep him as the 1st stringer?  Its happened before where the most talented guy is sitting on the bench because of a combination of reasons.

Teams have played disgruntled players before seeking new contracts. 

 

Fans being sick of this isnt a reason to bench him.  hes signed and can help us win games this year.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

If you look at the FA list next year and the RB draft class next year, JT is not getting paid by anyone unless he puts up a monster this year.  

 

And even if he does he likely will face what Barkley just got.  Nada. 

He could get 2000 rushing  and as silly as that sounds, it would probably diminish his value. Teams would look at his work load out of college his 1800 yard year and then say a 2000 yard year (not going to happen I know) and would be more fearful of wear and tear. It is just the market for rbs has gone south and honestly with all these backs excelling coming straight out of college and to boot being low draft picks, this is just the beginning. The only way Taylor gets that 2nd contract that he wants is to put up numbers like 1300 yards rushing with say 800 yards catching. He has to show that he is special.   I also think that Taylor is so adamant about wanting a new contract is because I  think he knows that he is not going to be put in a position to be the  Kamara and McAfferey's  in this offence under Steichen. Steichen probably had Taylor slotted for specific plays and in those crucial passing downs, Taylor may have been riding the bench. Just my hunch. I think if this year played out and Taylor would have played without all these noise, his numbers may have just been so so!! Taylor is very bright and maybe her read the tea leaves.

[BlackTiger]

Its looking like he wont be back next year and thats fine.

 

Play out this year, make an offer based on how he does.  If hes still worthy of the tag then use it, if not let him walk 

[Moosejawcolt]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Folks on this board simply overvalue JT.  Just like they did Marlon Mack after Mack had a decent season.

 

Ballard drafted JT in the last year of Mack's contract.  One straight ahead runner to replace the existing straight ahead runner in Franks' system.   That's a seemless transition.  Now he's drafted a pass catching RB in the final year of JTs contract, IMO, signifying a change of role for the RBs

 

When Ballard and Irsay say...lets see how it goes.....they know damm well that there is probably a 50/50 chance that JT sucks in SSs system.   JT knows this too, and knows that Ballard knows it, and doesn't want to take the risk that the rest of the NFL will know it too after the season, so he wants to be traded now instead of waiting to the end of the season to find a new team, on the heels of playing in a system that he is not suited for.

 

Its best for him to find that new team now, regardless of the money.

 

Its why he keeps raising his price for the Colts.  He doesn't want to play in this system.  You, me, and him all know why he doesn't want to.

 

I mean, I can't predict.  He might cave and report and play hard.  I would simply be surprised if he has a great season.

Before seeing what you wrote, i said the exact same thing lol

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

hes signed and can help us win games this year.

He won't help us much if he can't pass block better or catch a variety of passes like Hull might be able to, during the plays he isn't called upon to run between the OTs.

 

Frank's O isn't here anymore.

[BlackTiger]

I dont think they should give him the 16 mil per year.  he just needs to play out his contract and we go from there

 

Im not over valuing a RB in 2023

[Moosejawcolt]

12 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I think this is more of a protest through Taylor and his agent than just the money alone. They want to change the market for all RBs in the league. 

Well he is taking a bullet and it aint going to happen. Taylor cannot reset the market. Now lets say he finished with say 1300 yards rushing  last year and 900 yards catching. He  would get an extension. I think he would have gotten a contract close or maybe surpassing McAfferey. I still don't think it would have a been a reset. The Colts would have paid him based on his skill set and being a weapon and not being a rb. There are only a select few 3 down backs in the NFL who can do it all and never leave the game under any circumstance. Taylor is not one of them

[BlackTiger]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Frank's O isn't here anymore.

Shance led a run heavy offense last year with a 1200 yard rusher 

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Before seeing what you wrote, i said the exact same thing lol

This is what I see.

 

Ballard and Irsay were going to string JT along paying him is $4.5M to "see how he does" this year.  Despite what Irsay says, the Colts were highly likely to just let JT walk next spring.

 

JT is a smart guy and knows this.  So he is calling them out using a variety of strategies, so to speak, and wants to go to a team that will secure his services for beyond this season.  

 

In the end, I think JT is not here, because Ballard, SS, and Irsay don't really want him here long term anyway....under any price....they want the roster spot for RBs more suited to SS.  Despite what they might say to the public.

[BlackTiger]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

JT is a smart guy and knows this.

I think hes worried about the franchise tag.  If they were just going to let him test the market that wouldnt be a big problem for him.  It may even be what he wants

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Shance led a run heavy offense last year with a 1200 yard rusher 

But the RB contributed in other ways when not rushing.  And that guy now makes only $6.5M/year.

[Nickster]

12 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

By all accounts, Taylor is an incredibly intelligent man, as he  could have went to Harvard. Is sitting out the season the move that an intelligent man would make? However, maybe he is more prideful/stubborn  than intelligent? Logic usually wins over and it would not shock me if Taylor fired his agent. This is always a good way of resetting the dialogue between player and team. 

 

His premises are radically flawed or he really, really sucks as a philosopher lol.  Many philosophers over the ages have come up with some real dumb feces, that are brilliantly logicized, from radically flawed premeses. 

[BlackTiger]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

And that guy now makes only $6.5M/year.

I dont think we should actually give him what he wants.  He needs to play this year (as first string) and both he and the team will go from there.

 

Hes ok as a receiver too, not great but they can dump it to him.  

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I think hes worried about the franchise tag.  If they were just going to let him test the market that wouldnt be a big problem for him.  It may even be what he wants

That too.  I've been talking about scheme fit and long term money.

 

Not to mention that most pro-bowl quality RBs would think twice about playing on a team with a rookie QB and a bad/uncertain oline.  That combo alone might make a lot of JT quality RBs not show up.

[csmopar]

48 minutes ago, DougDew said:

As far as how the roster designations and payments are concerned, yes.  The NLI? is off the table.

 

So JT will get paid for showing up in the manner he wants to show up, whatever that ends up being.

Not entirely. . If they have record to show otherwise, they very well

could use the NFI

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

This is what I see.

 

Ballard and Irsay were going to string JT along paying him is $4.5M to "see how he does" this year.  Despite what Irsay says, the Colts were highly likely to just let JT walk next spring.

 

JT is a smart guy and knows this.  So he is calling them out using a variety of strategy, so to speak, and wants to go to a team that will secure his services for beyond this season.  

 

In the end, I think JT is not here, because Ballard, SS, and Irsay don't really want him here long term anyway....under any price....they want the roster spot for RBs more suited to SS.  Despite what they might say to the public.

Every situation is different when a player demands a trade. Lamar did it with Baltimore and in most situations, I am all for trading a player if he wants it. However, Lamar and Taylor are two different animals. One is a franchise qb's who's feelings were hurt and money always makes people forget about the past. Taylor is much different, as previously listed in numerous posts. I know a lot has been made of Ballard drafting Taylor and people criticize him for spending a 2nd  on a guy who will probably be only hear for one contract. Ballard drafted for Reich's scheme and I applaud  him for that, but we have a new coach and scheme. There is no doubt that Taylor has seen the writing on the wall. At the end of the day, I just don't think he has any options.   Taylor has one option to improve his stock for next year. He comes in and plays and shows this team that he is a dynamic runner and pass catcher. If the Colts decide not to keep him based on his elite skill set in those 2 areas, then someone else may. However, he is not going to hone those skills sitting on the sidelines. A year off for him would be catastrophic for him financially 

[BlackTiger]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Many philosophers over the ages have come up with some real dumb feces, that are brilliantly logicized, from radically flawed premeses. 

He looks bad and fans are complaining but nothing has happened that really hurt him yet.  As long as he plays he hasnt really hurt his value with any of this

[smittywerb]

On 7/30/2023 at 1:36 PM, DougDew said:

I think he will have a better year somewhere else.  It will lead to a better contract for him, IMO.   

 

I don’t doubt JT will get a better contract.  I don’t doubt he’ll get more money to play here after all of this.  But I DO doubt that he’s going to get the money him and the other RBs think they’re going to get.  And if he does, it may help that team in the short term but not the long term.

 

we are not a short term team.  We are not a team that is one piece away from going to the SB and will shell out money to a RB.  Let someone like the lions or Seahawks who think they are a couple pieces away from being a contender and have the money and picks to get him.

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Not entirely. . If they have record to show otherwise, they very well

could use the NFI

But I think the record is simply the fact that JT said he hurt his back.  Now JT could simply say that his back is fine, but his Colts-supervised ankle is what's holding him back.

 

Unless the doctors corroborated JTs back pain with MRIs and such, I think its just a matter of what JT says.

[richard pallo]

I’m thinking a trade could be possible with three of the AFC East teams.  The Bills, Dolphins and Jets.  The Jets are talking to Cook I believe.  So they are in the market.  The Dolphins tried to trade for Barkley.  So they are in the market.  The Bills could use a back like JT especially in the bad weather in Buffalo.  All three are Super Bowl contenders in need of a back like JT who could push them over the top.  If JT would be happy with a deal similar to Barkleys for this year then I think a trade is a possibility.  He would have to wait until next year for the longer term deal.  But he gets a chance to showcase himself on a contender this year.  At least he’s getting a bigger pay day this year than the 4mil or so he’s currently slated to receive with the Colts.  The Colts should be able to get a 2nd rd pick for him.  Maybe a conditional 2nd that becomes a 1st if his new team wins a SB.  That would probably get Irsay on board.  If he and his agent are intent on getting him out of Indy one of these teams might get it done but JT has to be reasonable here.  Barkleys deal should now be the goal imo.  Anyways what a mess.

[smittywerb]

My personal opinion, I do think JT should get his extension and more money than he current contract.  But here’s where I disagree.  I don’t know the number the RBs think they should deserve, but I would not pay it because the position historically has shown the big money given to RBs after the wear and tear hurts the team.  Maybe what is happening is a good thing for RBs because it shows the NFL needs to fix this problem.  Maybe making the first contract bigger and then making the second contracts heavily incentive based will solve this issue, but I’m no expert in labor relations and contracts.

 

Regarding his future with the team, I hope we do keep him but if not, let’s get some good value for him.  Whether that’s a high pick or another disgruntled player at a position of need (maybe stephon diggs?)

 

this team will not need a premiere running back.  Just someone who can get us the yards.  Teams with qbs who can make plays with their legs (ex. Eagles, bears, chiefs, bills) don’t have a running back like JT.  Is that running back on our team right now?  Maybe, maybe not.  But one thing I do know is we don’t need to overpay for a running back during a rebuild.

[TimetobringDfence!]

43 minutes ago, stitches said:

They have plausible deniability right now. Noone has filed anything official. They are still not officially claiming Taylor reported back injury or that they found a back injury. If they do and send Taylor to the NFI list, they better have good evidence for it. But if they are lying about it right now, then I think they've crossed a line. I don't like this whole situation, but this to me will be a very low point for this franchise and we(and especially the one who's leaking this information) would deserve all the vitriol directed at them. 

Agreed. Irsay may have his downfalls and flaws but I don't think he is ignorant enough or stubborn enough to cross the line of falsifying info. Maybe wording it into his favor. But if he did that would be conduct detrimental to the league.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Marlon Mack was a 4th round RB. If the line bounces back after one bad season, there are a lot of RBs who can have success behind it. I think the Colts will likely part with JT after this year. if to anyone, to the Colts he has shown his true colors. 
 

I just listened to an Edge interview, and he was asked about Peyton calling him the best team mate he ever had, and he spoke about putting the team first, and the goal of the team comes first. This shows me JT doesn’t have that same mindset.