Greg Cossell on Anthony Richardson and Johnathan Taylor

[Moosejawcolt]

I believe he is highly regarded by those in the NFL. He starts talking about the topic of interest. Kind says what I have said about Taylor and how he fits this offense lol. Good listen

 

https://player.fm/series/ross-tucker-football-podcast/how-important-is-jonathan-taylor-to-the-colts-offense-greg-cosell-interview

[Moosejawcolt]

PS. start listening at the 9 minute mark

[Smonroe]

He makes a good point, losing JT isn’t the end of the world in an Eagles type scheme.  That’s also assuming AR is a real passing threat too. 
 

But where any good RB will get you 4, JT will get you 6 and possibly a TD on any carry.  No secret, JT (if he’s healthy) adds a bigger threat to any offense.  

[throwing BBZ]

Fortunately there is clear history that keeping and paying JT would be detrimental to building a team that competes for going to a SB.

 Numerous other positions are more valuable for this mission.

  Tough ruck JT.

[stitches]

This is the difference between someone who actually knows football, watches tape and has some analytical ability, and the numerous brainless talking heads who only see - "oh star RB missing - this will ruin AR". Cosell is the best in the business bar none... 

 

I may disagree with some of his takes, but I respect what he has to say on anything football and I know at the very least it's well thought out and well argumented... 

[CoachLite]

36 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

Fortunately there is clear history that keeping and paying JT would be detrimental to building a team that competes for going to a SB.

 Numerous other positions are more valuable for this mission.

  Tough ruck JT.

I think it is impossible to separate the game of football from the business of football in the NFL. You need to take into account the past history of the team, where the team is now, and using your infallible crystal ball, view where the team will be in the not-too-distant future. Does JT only want to make big bucks now, or does he want to gamble long term possibly making the HOF? Are the Colts on that path? History says they have been, a couple of times.

 

You pays your money, and you takes your chances. Either way, the Colts will succeed or fail according to the whims of the football gods.

[Nickster]

14 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I believe he is highly regarded by those in the NFL. He starts talking about the topic of interest. Kind says what I have said about Taylor and how he fits this offense lol. Good listen

 

https://player.fm/series/ross-tucker-football-podcast/how-important-is-jonathan-taylor-to-the-colts-offense-greg-cosell-interview

Moose I don’t usually like watching vids.  Can you bullet point what he’s saying?  Or can one of you other dudes?

[Nickster]

14 hours ago, Smonroe said:

He makes a good point, losing JT isn’t the end of the world in an Eagles type scheme.  That’s also assuming AR is a real passing threat too. 
 

But where any good RB will get you 4, JT will get you 6 and possibly a TD on any carry.  No secret, JT (if he’s healthy) adds a bigger threat to any offense.  

(EDIT FOR SOME REASON the letter e and f and f are blocked.  It’s the efficiency next gen stat which measures the north south ness of a runner.  Anyone know why E F F is blocked lol? Is it like the effbomb lol?)

 

But in RPO zone read, stretch type of plays  JT isn’t as good.  If you look at Taylor’s * it is much lower in the last 2 seasons than his  rookie.  What that means is he’s a north south runner.  
 

his rookie year his * number and the eye test will tell you they started calling more north south plays for him which seems to match all his scouting reports and RAS numbers.  He’s great downhill but not very good running laterally and slow playing outside zones.  Philly slow plays a lot so I am not sure if Ss wants JT in his O.

 

Not sure JT is a good fit for zone read type plays.  He isn’t used to meshing with the QB on true option plays.  They did the look some with CW but Wentz although athletic wasn’t a running real options that often even though the look was given.

 

My thoughts on JT is this, if JT can learn to feel the mesh point with his QB, then he and AR might be devastating together.

 

however if JT runs into piles when clear holes don’t open up quickly and doesn’t learn Leveon bell type patience and or the oline sucks then the offense will be much better off with a runner with more east west ability and better pass pro and route running skills.

 

I don’t think SS is sold on JTs skill set in what he’s trying to do.

 

 

[Matabix]

Kinda the reason I think we should resign JT and not Pittman. I'm set on us getting Harrison Jr. Plus I'm also resigning Grove, hopefully same amount contract.

[Mitch Connors]

33 minutes ago, Nickster said:

(EDIT FOR SOME REASON the letter e and f and f are blocked.  It’s the efficiency next gen stat which measures the north south ness of a runner.  Anyone know why E F F is blocked lol? Is it like the effbomb lol?)

 

E F F is blocked because it stands for ***** %%%% &&&&&

 

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

E F F is blocked because it stands for ***** %%%% &&&&&

 

Lol.  Not sure what that means lol.

6 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

E F F is blocked because it stands for ***** %%%% &&&&&

 

The queen mary of cuss words and the ultimate impetus of human behavior lol.

[Creekside]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

 

I don’t think SS is sold on JTs skill set in what he’s trying to do.

 

 

 

 

It may very well be that JT isn't sold on it either which may have more to do with his desire to leave than we realize.

 

Taylor is a home run hitter. He doesn't want to bunt the guy on first over to second. He doesn't want to slap a sacrifice fly into right field.

 

He wants the hand-off. He wants to hit the hole hard. He wants to burst into the second level, break a tackle and take it to the house.

 

He wants to play football the way he likes it.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

Moose I don’t usually like watching vids.  Can you bullet point what he’s saying?  Or can one of you other dudes?

Cossell basically  said because of Richardson's running ability and the scheme that Steichen will employ, Richardson would be a great addition but we could live without him. Thats what i got out of it

[lollygagger8]

Anthony Richardson + any RB = deadly backfield 

 

If that was JT, that would be even greater. At this point though, I'm tired of his antics (I say his because he listens to that imbecile agent of his that knows nothing about football) and would rather trade JT for a Right Guard and a ham sammich at this point. 

 

JT is doubly dumb because having AR back there doesn't do anything but help JT even more. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Matabix said:

Kinda the reason I think we should resign JT and not Pittman. I'm set on us getting Harrison Jr. Plus I'm also resigning Grove, hopefully same amount contract.

We aren’t getting Harrison. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Anthony Richardson + any RB = deadly backfield 

 

If that was JT, that would be even greater. At this point though, I'm tired of his antics (I say his because he listens to that imbecile agent of his that knows nothing about football) and would rather trade JT for a Right Guard and a ham sammich at this point. 

 

JT is doubly dumb because having AR back there doesn't do anything but help JT even more. 

It actually could even extend his career. Because he won’t have to carry the ball as much. Fewer carries  but more yards because of Richardson.

[DougDew]

16 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I believe he is highly regarded by those in the NFL. He starts talking about the topic of interest. Kind says what I have said about Taylor and how he fits this offense lol. Good listen

 

https://player.fm/series/ross-tucker-football-podcast/how-important-is-jonathan-taylor-to-the-colts-offense-greg-cosell-interview

Can you summarize that part for those of us who can't listen?

[krunk]

I'm good with Moss, Hull, and another speed back. Deon Jackson is fast but I question his vision and shiftiness as a runner. I did like how Steichen used him against the Bills though. I'd like to have a guy like with a style like Marlon Mack to go along with Hull and Moss. Put them with Richardsons legs and I think that's more than good enough. I'd like JT if we can, but I think we can still be pretty productive without him with the right type of committee backs.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

(EDIT FOR SOME REASON the letter e and f and f are blocked.  It’s the efficiency next gen stat which measures the north south ness of a runner.  Anyone know why E F F is blocked lol? Is it like the effbomb lol?)

 

But in RPO zone read, stretch type of plays  JT isn’t as good.  If you look at Taylor’s * it is much lower in the last 2 seasons than his  rookie.  What that means is he’s a north south runner.  
 

his rookie year his * number and the eye test will tell you they started calling more north south plays for him which seems to match all his scouting reports and RAS numbers.  He’s great downhill but not very good running laterally and slow playing outside zones.  Philly slow plays a lot so I am not sure if Ss wants JT in his O.

 

Not sure JT is a good fit for zone read type plays.  He isn’t used to meshing with the QB on true option plays.  They did the look some with CW but Wentz although athletic wasn’t a running real options that often even though the look was given.

 

My thoughts on JT is this, if JT can learn to feel the mesh point with his QB, then he and AR might be devastating together.

 

however if JT runs into piles when clear holes don’t open up quickly and doesn’t learn Leveon bell type patience and or the oline sucks then the offense will be much better off with a runner with more east west ability and better pass pro and route running skills.

 

I don’t think SS is sold on JTs skill set in what he’s trying to do.

 

 

If people can recall the first half of his rookie year, there were tons of critical observations on this forum about JTs poor field vision.....will it improve?  Then he had a better rookie production and a great 2021.

 

What happened that improved JTs performance was better playcalling to match JTs strengths as much as it was about JT himself.  But JT got most of the credit when it succeeded and Reich took the heat for running too much up the gut when it failed.

 

And defenses figured it out about 75% of the way through 2021, and the Colts O spiraled with JT ever since.

 

So the question is, can JT defy his pro and college playing history, RAS indications, and become more of an all-purpose RB than what he has been?  My guess what is at the root of this standoff is that SS has told CB and Jimmy that, no, we could get the same production in SS offense for less money.

 

Of course, its just one of those crazy DD dot connections.

[luv_pony_express]

2 hours ago, Matabix said:

I'm set on us getting Harrison Jr.

 

Us...and 31 other teams.

 

It would be nice if we could have that much control over who we drafted, without having to have the #1 (or even #2) pick to have that control.  But I'd much rather we had later draft picks -- I'd hope we all would.

 

That said, it's certainly within the realm of possibility that we'll be drafting high enough next year that we could get him.  But I wouldn't stake too much emotional capital on it.

[Matabix]

29 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Us...and 31 other teams.

 

It would be nice if we could have that much control over who we drafted, without having to have the #1 (or even #2) pick to have that control.  But I'd much rather we had later draft picks -- I'd hope we all would.

 

That said, it's certainly within the realm of possibility that we'll be drafting high enough next year that we could get him.  But I wouldn't stake too much emotional capital on it.

I think the 3rd pick would do it.

[lester]

2 hours ago, Creekside said:

 

 

It may very well be that JT isn't sold on it either which may have more to do with his desire to leave than we realize.

 

 

You may be on to something. My gut tells me JT knows he doesn't fit. He knows he won't be 'productive' (not the big $$$ kind of productive) in the new offense.

 

I think he made a calculation this summer that he needed to get paid or get outta-dodge before he puts down 2023 tape that does not showcase his strengths. That is what led him to change to the 'aggressive' agent and completely change his public demeanor. That's all the sense I can make out of it.

[MacDee1975]

7 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

Fortunately there is clear history that keeping and paying JT would be detrimental to building a team that competes for going to a SB.

 Numerous other positions are more valuable for this mission.

  Tough ruck JT.

 

Exactly.  Why in the world would the Colts need some high priced rb when the QB they've selected to build the franchise around will be eating into said rb's volume of carries every game?  Not to mention said rb hasn't played in a game in 8+ due to an ankle injury, and evidently he still hasn't recovered from it.

 

Three decent, interchangeable, well rounded mid round draft pick running backs is the best fit for this team at this point.

[Moosejawcolt]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Can you summarize that part for those of us who can't listen?

He basically said that with Richardson's running ability and Steichen's scheme and history in Philly, the Colts could live without him. 

[Moosejawcolt]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Can you summarize that part for those of us who can't listen?

Lombardi actually gave props to Venturi as one of the best in breaking down game film and not all the other crap. Maybe a horrible coach, but sounds like he has a lot of respect in football and he is not a homer, which he likes.

[Moosejawcolt]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Can you summarize that part for those of us who can't listen?

he also said that the Oline has never played the same since Reich fired Gooch, which I thought was a horrible idea at that time. He is kind of hard on Reich as he maybe loosing his reputation as a qb guru. 

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

he also said that the Oline has never played the same since Reich fired Gooch, which I thought was a horrible idea at that time. He is kind of hard on Reich as he maybe loosing his reputation as a qb guru. 

Dave DeGuglielmo hasn't spent more than a year any place he has been in over a decade.  There is a reason he continues to get fired,  and is currently unemployed 

[Moosejawcolt]

17 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Dave DeGuglielmo hasn't spent more than a year any place he has been in over a decade.  There is a reason he continues to get fired,  and is currently unemployed 

yes and he noted that

[Nickster]

7 hours ago, Creekside said:

 

 

It may very well be that JT isn't sold on it either which may have more to do with his desire to leave than we realize.

 

Taylor is a home run hitter. He doesn't want to bunt the guy on first over to second. He doesn't want to slap a sacrifice fly into right field.

 

He wants the hand-off. He wants to hit the hole hard. He wants to burst into the second level, break a tackle and take it to the house.

 

He wants to play football the way he likes it.

Only problem is not many teams run that kind of offense because it doesn’t that well anymore.

 

 

[sb41champs]

Thanks for sharing!!