Chicago trade with Carolina

[IinD]

10 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

I have to ask....because I see it being repeated ad nauseum here and elsewhere.  Is all this "Steichen has proclaimed he wants to throw the ball primarily, so that = X rookie QB more than others"  stemming from the one quote at his presser about "Passing to score, and running to win"?

 

I ask because you can't get much earlier in a Head Coaching career than this man is, but a lot of peo[ple are assuming and repeating all over the place that they already know what his references are going to be regarding all manner of things QB related, Offense structure related, Play Call related.....  It's amazingly early in his Career at this position, let alone with the Colts, to assume any of these things.  Let alone state them as quasi-facts.  Not to mention, he's perfectly capable of learning, growing, and evolving from what he has been up to this point, IF people claim to be basing these statements off of his past as a Coordinator and Position Coach.

Nowadays you just need Internet access to be an expert... Duh!!

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I wouldn't  necessarily say that. Let's say the Panthers make it far into  the play offs.   That one  is a late one  next  year and basically  a 2nd round pick. Those 2nd and  3rd rounders  essentially become early 3rds and  4ths. It really depends on how far Carolins goes. Now  if they crash and they are picking  in the top five then yes the Bears fleeced them. If Panthers go far and get their franchise qb then they fleeced the Bears   cause they essentially got late picks and are left with Fields who is not a franchise qb. By the way wait till Moore gets there and Moore goes off  on Fields for not throwing him the ball. Plus, Poles is not going to look to hot if Young or whoever Carolina balls out  and the Bears  bench Fiellds mid season. Alot at work  here to say who wins or loses. Have to wait til end of the season. Bigger question is what if the Carolina drafts Young and he  becomes elite and the Colts draft   another guy and he is a dud? That to me that  is a bigger question cause no doubt the Bears  probably wanted the Colts pick at 4.  I hope the Colts know what they are doing. Finally Reich gets his guy and interesting to see how Frank is going to be viewed moving forward.

You seem to be assuming a lot.  For one thing it wasn't Frank who made the trade. 

[TomDiggs]

22 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

I have to ask....because I see it being repeated ad nauseum here and elsewhere.  Is all this "Steichen has proclaimed he wants to throw the ball primarily, so that = X rookie QB more than others"  stemming from the one quote at his presser about "Passing to score, and running to win"?

 

I ask because you can't get much earlier in a Head Coaching career than this man is, but a lot of peo[ple are assuming and repeating all over the place that they already know what his references are going to be regarding all manner of things QB related, Offense structure related, Play Call related.....  It's amazingly early in his Career at this position, let alone with the Colts, to assume any of these things.  Let alone state them as quasi-facts.  Not to mention, he's perfectly capable of learning, growing, and evolving from what he has been up to this point, IF people claim to be basing these statements off of his past as a Coordinator and Position Coach.

This! 10 times over!

 

people take words and for some reason don’t fact check them with actions. 
 

with a new starter in Jalen hurts in 2021 and Steichen taking over calling plays mid 2021, what was the eagles pass to run ratio for 2021?
 

52.7% run and 47.3% pass. 
 

That was 1st overall in the entire nfl In rush percentage and last (32nd) in pass. Literally the most avg rush attempts a game (32) and literally the fewest pass attempts per game (29)!

 

fast forward to 2022 with Hurts playing exceptionally. The resulting ratio?

 

50.4% run and 49.6% pass. 
 

3rd in the league in rush attempts per game (32) and 23rd in pass attempts per game at 32

 

it is fair to say this team is gonna run. A lot. 
 

they will do it to close out games if they have leads like the 2022 eagles did. Or they will do it to stay in games and protect an early career QB like the 2021 eagles did. 
 

either way we will run a lot. And there will be time for any of the qbs we take to develop. 
 

take the one w the highest upside you think can be consistently developed and Attained. 
 

I say theat to mean if Richardson has the best upside but the staff thinks he’s unlikely to ever be consistent and Levis has the second best upside but you think you can more likely achieve that consistently, then that is who you go with. 
 

in the meantime we will run. A lot. 

 

 

[RollerColt]

23 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

I have to ask....because I see it being repeated ad nauseum here and elsewhere.  Is all this "Steichen has proclaimed he wants to throw the ball primarily, so that = X rookie QB more than others"  stemming from the one quote at his presser about "Passing to score, and running to win"?

 

I ask because you can't get much earlier in a Head Coaching career than this man is, but a lot of peo[ple are assuming and repeating all over the place that they already know what his references are going to be regarding all manner of things QB related, Offense structure related, Play Call related.....  It's amazingly early in his Career at this position, let alone with the Colts, to assume any of these things.  Let alone state them as quasi-facts.  Not to mention, he's perfectly capable of learning, growing, and evolving from what he has been up to this point, IF people claim to be basing these statements off of his past as a Coordinator and Position Coach.

Plus, he didn’t mention how we will go down the field. I’d expect he will adjust the game plan depending on who his QB is. Throw to score could mean red zone, run to win could mean converting downs and moving the sticks. Who knows really. It’s March and it’s so early. 

[krunk]

29 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

I have to ask....because I see it being repeated ad nauseum here and elsewhere.  Is all this "Steichen has proclaimed he wants to throw the ball primarily, so that = X rookie QB more than others"  stemming from the one quote at his presser about "Passing to score, and running to win"?

 

I ask because you can't get much earlier in a Head Coaching career than this man is, but a lot of peo[ple are assuming and repeating all over the place that they already know what his references are going to be regarding all manner of things QB related, Offense structure related, Play Call related.....  It's amazingly early in his Career at this position, let alone with the Colts, to assume any of these things.  Let alone state them as quasi-facts.  Not to mention, he's perfectly capable of learning, growing, and evolving from what he has been up to this point, IF people claim to be basing these statements off of his past as a Coordinator and Position Coach.

Yes its one quote but he didnt say it for no good reason. Coaches give clues all the time about which way they are leaning and what play style they tend to. He not only said throw to score but then they backed up what they looked for by giving Quarteback traits. Accuracy being first and foremost, decision making and some escapability also. I dont know of too many coaches who have no idea what they want to do with their personnel. Most of them know what they want the team identity to be. Nobody is second guessing how Rex Ryan wants to play defense for example.  Nor is anybody here sitting around avting like we dont know how Reich likes his personnel. Or is anybody surprised that Reich comes in talking about running the ball a lot. Some statements coaches make you can tell are core statements. Weve had problems scoring points so do you think we go out and get a QB who cant score?

[stitches]

19 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

This! 10 times over!

 

people take words and for some reason don’t fact check them with actions. 
 

with a new starter in Jalen hurts in 2021 and Steichen taking over calling plays mid 2021, what was the eagles pass to run ratio for 2021?
 

52.7% run and 47.3% pass. 
 

That was 1st overall in the entire nfl In rush percentage and last (32nd) in pass. Literally the most avg rush attempts a game (32) and literally the fewest pass attempts per game (29)!

 

fast forward to 2022 with Hurts playing exceptionally. The resulting ratio?

 

50.4% run and 49.6% pass. 
 

3rd in the league in rush attempts per game (32) and 23rd in pass attempts per game at 32

 

it is fair to say this team is gonna run. A lot. 
 

they will do it to close out games if they have leads like the 2022 eagles did. Or they will do it to stay in games and protect an early career QB like the 2021 eagles did. 
 

either way we will run a lot. And there will be time for any of the qbs we take to develop. 
 

take the one w the highest upside you think can be consistently developed and Attained. 
 

I say theat to mean if Richardson has the best upside but the staff thinks he’s unlikely to ever be consistent and Levis has the second best upside but you think you can more likely achieve that consistently, then that is who you go with. 
 

in the meantime we will run. A lot. 

 

 

IMO the thing we can draw from Steichen's playcalling career so far is that he will tailor his playcalling to the team he has and more specifically the QB. Example, you posted the run/pass ratios for the Eagles... but if you go to his one year with Herbert, the Chargers' split was 57.4/42.6 pass/run. This was about average for the league. And this was with rookie Herbert.

 

As you said the game scripts influence those splits too - if a team has a lot of big early leads, they will run a lot to close the game, and vice versa - if they have big deficits, they will likely try to throw to get back in the game. It's hard to pin point just exactly run-heavy we will be IMO. Steichen has said already that he will tailor his offense to the strengths and weaknesses of his team and his early playcalling history seems to confirm this... I think this is the right approach in general. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

But we are losing our assets left and right because of the Cousins contract. We cut Eric Kendricks and Adam Thielen, two of the top ten players on our team. We still have to cut more to get under the cap. We might lose Dalvin Cook and Harrison Smith. If only we could cut Cousins without being subjected to dead money, we could keep all of our other guys.

 

Point is:  go with a young guy that does that take up 15% of your cap. I don't think Lamar is bad just as I don't think Cousins is bad. It is the contracts that they sign that I am afraid of. What more did Lamar want than what he was offered.

 

Anyway, back to the topic, if I was a Colts fan I would be elated that my team did not mortgage the future to acquire a higher pick. Remember the Jets moving up for Darnold and Chicago moving up for Trubisky? Nah, let my QB fall to me.

I think Ravens could've given more guaranteed money, but if he wants any  close to fully guaranteed contract, Ravens usually wouldn't do that. 

 

Having said that, they got MVP season and very successful years paying him rookie money. It is OKAY TO PAY. After all, including the rookie years, they'd have got everything worth out of him for whatever he asks for. 

 

Lamar knows he doesn't have a 10+ year life cycle as QB. If Cam Newton broke down in a decade, Lamar Jackson would as well. This is his only chance to get a huge salary unless he gets healthy and learns to pass more and protect himself from injuries. Ravens, after using the tag this year, should let another team pay him good money if they don't want to. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, Jackie Daytona said:

I have to ask....because I see it being repeated ad nauseum here and elsewhere.  Is all this "Steichen has proclaimed he wants to throw the ball primarily, so that = X rookie QB more than others"  stemming from the one quote at his presser about "Passing to score, and running to win"?

 

I ask because you can't get much earlier in a Head Coaching career than this man is, but a lot of peo[ple are assuming and repeating all over the place that they already know what his references are going to be regarding all manner of things QB related, Offense structure related, Play Call related.....  It's amazingly early in his Career at this position, let alone with the Colts, to assume any of these things.  Let alone state them as quasi-facts.  Not to mention, he's perfectly capable of learning, growing, and evolving from what he has been up to this point, IF people claim to be basing these statements off of his past as a Coordinator and Position Coach.

I have heard one GM say that  he  will probably bring the six back offense  with him that he ran with Jalen which would high light Richardsons skills. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

You seem to be assuming a lot.  For one thing it wasn't Frank who made the trade. 

 I never said he did. I said in early posts that  this was the owners move. He wants a franchise qb. I   was  stating that Frank  finally gets a so called   young franchise qb so it will be interesting to see how it plays out 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, Jackie Daytona said:

looking at the situation in Carolina ownershipwise, and seeing Frank operate here for years, I wouldn't say Frank is going to be likely to win over Tepper if there is a significant difference of opinion in who to draft.  This goes several QB attempts beyond Reich for Tepper.....  

I think the move up was initiated  by the owner to get a franchise qb and no more fooling around no mater the cost. Now I do think it will be  a collective decision on who get.

[Patrick Miller]

 

[Moosejawcolt]

5 hours ago, RollerColt said:

True… he was in the fire at Kentucky practically every weekend this past season. 

I thought Levi bordered on arrogant but from what I hear, his team mates love him. He does have an  air of confidence and  a qb is going to need that in leading   this franchise. 

[AKB]

2 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

 

due diligence.

unless we trade down?

now, I know how mad people would be.

but imagine, trading down, still getting QB of future, and adding a new core of picks

[JColts72]

Hooker will be long gone before Colts think they will get him.

[Patrick Miller]

11 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

due diligence.

unless we trade down?

now, I know how mad people would be.

but imagine, trading down, still getting QB of future, and adding a new core of picks

Maybe we will take the best defensive player Anderson with the fourth pack and then take Hooker with our second pack. Then again who knows what could happen in free agency. Maybe the Texans will sign Jimmy Garoppolo to a four year deal and forgo drafting a quarterback. then, maybe either young or Stroud slides down to us at 4. 

[AKB]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

Maybe we will take the best defensive player Anderson with the fourth pack and then take Hooker with our second pack. Then again who knows what could happen in free agency. Maybe the Texans will sign Jimmy Garoppolo to a four year deal and forgo drafting a quarterback. then, maybe either young or Stroud slides down to us at 4. 

 

I'm very open-minded, and really don't have a huge pref. as to who we pick.

 

my first choice would be to get Richardson while also maybe trading down a spot or two (if possible)

 

--> if we stay at 4 I imagine that's between Levis and Richardson (IMO, Richardson has the higher ceiling)

 

--> I could also see us taking Levis at 4 If the panthers go young, Texans go stroud, and cardinals take the BPA defense

----> Levis, Richardson avail.

 

We could also trade down to 9-12, get a premier player 

 

and like you said, still get a guy in 20-29 by may be trading up our 2nd slightly, or taking BPA QB at our regular pick.

 

I just have a feeling we trade down. 

 

 

(I don't think Texans miss this opportunity of taking QB after the Watson fiasco)

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I thought Levi bordered on arrogant but from what I hear, his team mates love him. He does have an  air of confidence and  a qb is going to need that in leading   this franchise. 

From what I have seen and heard he commands a room. I watched his entire presser again. I thought he said something pretty cool. He mentioned having to win the staring job. Having that mind set is really good. This team would have some swagger I think I’d we took him. Something I have wanted for long time. 

[DougDew]

Levis is the best QB prospect in the draft and CAR traded up for him, 

 

HOU will take Stroud, and we'll get stuck with either Young or Richardson, two QBs who are probably not even NFL caliber players.

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Levis is the best QB prospect in the draft and CAR traded up for him, 

 

HOU will take Stroud, and we'll get stuck with either Young or Richardson, two QBs who are probably not even NFL caliber players.

 You could be right. If Carolina indeed moved  up  to get Levi in front of the Colts and he  goes on to super stardom  and Ballard wanted him but  refused to  make the trade it would indeed define his tenure as GM.

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 You could be right. If Carolina indeed moved  up  to get Levi in front of the Colts and he  goes on to super stardom  and Ballard wanted him but  refused to  make the trade it would indeed define his tenure as GM.

why would they trade to 1 for levis though? he isn't projected by anyone as pick 1.

 

or am i missing something?

 

if anything Stroud fits the bill for Reich / pick 1. 

 

Otherwise the default option is young.

 

IMO i think Young , Stroud go 1 - 2 in any order.. 

[Moosejawcolt]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Levis is the best QB prospect in the draft and CAR traded up for him, 

 

HOU will take Stroud, and we'll get stuck with either Young or Richardson, two QBs who are probably not even NFL caliber players.

Yeah I just  don't see  Richardson or Young as Riech guys. Levi would fit the mold but I am choping they traded ip as they have Lamar in their sights.

[Patrick Miller]

I will literally crap my pants if young somehow makes it down to our pick.

[Moosejawcolt]

4 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

 

Man this guys stock is plummeting. 

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

I will literally crap my pants if young somehow makes it down to our pick.

Maybe thats why Ballard and  Steichen maybe smiling. We all don't know who wants who. I actually heard that Luri, the  Eagles owner, was the  one who wanted Hurts. This  pick by Carolina could be a Tepper pick. He is a multi billionaire and this is his toy and he is a very strong personailty

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Man this guys stock is plummeting. 

Hooker is fine (I've said that before, LOL).  But he wont be ready to start his rookie year, so we'll need another QB.   Age doesn't bother me because you really only get QBs for their 1st contract anyway.  After that its about the same as getting a FA

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Hooker is fine (I've said that before, LOL).  But he wont be ready to start his rookie year, so we'll need another QB.   Age doesn't bother me because you really only get QBs for their 1st contract anyway.  After that its about the same as getting a FA

 I thought I heard he would be ready to go?? No matter really as you couldxwait a few games to let him get his feet wet.  

[Moosejawcolt]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Hooker is fine (I've said that before, LOL).  But he wont be ready to start his rookie year, so we'll need another QB.   Age doesn't bother me because you really only get QBs for their 1st contract anyway.  After that its about the same as getting a FA

What the earliest u could see him going? Do u see him as an early first round pick??  

[DougDew]

15 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

why would they trade to 1 for levis though? he isn't projected by anyone as pick 1.

 

or am i missing something?

 

if anything Stroud fits the bill for Reich / pick 1. 

 

Otherwise the default option is young.

 

IMO i think Young , Stroud go 1 - 2 in any order.. 

Don't be swayed by this media hype.  Stroud and Levis are the best prospects.  I can see Reich wanting Stroud.  That's okay.  I just don't want the Colts to get stuck with Young or Richardson. 

 

If the choice is between Young and Richardson, I'd pick Anderson or trade down then pick Hooker.

 

CAR Stroud, HOU Young, and Colts trade to 3 for Levis would be great, IMO.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 I thought I heard he would be ready to go?? No matter really as you couldxwait a few games to let him get his feet wet.  

He's got a lot to learn though too.  I would not want him trying to escape his own created trouble with a newly healed knee early in the season.

[Moosejawcolt]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Don't be swayed by this media hype.  Stroud and Levis are the best prospects.  I can see Reich wanting Stroud.  That's okay.  I just don't want the Colts to get stuck with Young or Richardson. 

 

If the choice is between Young and Richardson, I'd pick Anderson or trade down then pick Hooker.

 

CAR Stroud, HOU Young, and Colts trade to 3 for Levis would be great, IMO.

   If  the Colts  don't move up to three  and stayed at 4 what  would u take from that???

[richard pallo]

47 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

why would they trade to 1 for levis though? he isn't projected by anyone as pick 1.

 

or am i missing something?

 

if anything Stroud fits the bill for Reich / pick 1. 

 

Otherwise the default option is young.

 

IMO i think Young , Stroud go 1 - 2 in any order.. 

Yes he has a number of times.  Kiper has Levis as the number one quarterback prospect.  

[Moosejawcolt]

8 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Yes he has a number of times.  Kiper has Levis as the number one quarterback prospect.  

Kiper is not a great source on evaluating qbs. 

[Moosejawcolt]

43 minutes ago, DougDew said:

He's got a lot to learn though too.  I would not want him trying to escape his own created trouble with a newly healed knee early in the season.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

15 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Yes he has a number of times.  Kiper has Levis as the number one quarterback prospect.  

It’s been said scouts are much higher on him then fans.

[AKB]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Don't be swayed by this media hype.  Stroud and Levis are the best prospects.  I can see Reich wanting Stroud.  That's okay.  I just don't want the Colts to get stuck with Young or Richardson. 

 

If the choice is between Young and Richardson, I'd pick Anderson or trade down then pick Hooker.

 

CAR Stroud, HOU Young, and Colts trade to 3 for Levis would be great, IMO.

i believe 

 

Young/Stroud as 1a 1b

Levis 2

Richardson 3

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, AustinnKaine said:

i believe 

 

Young/Stroud as 1a 1b

Levis 2

Richardson 3

I suspect it’s that way for many teams.   Perhaps most teams.   I just don’t think that’s the order for all teams.  

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 I thought I heard he would be ready to go?? No matter really as you couldxwait a few games to let him get his feet wet.  

Ready to go for training camp.   Roughly Aug 1.    That’s pretty late in the learning process for a rookie.   Physically, he’d be starting from scratch.   

[CR91]

22 hours ago, csmopar said:

And your point?

 

You want me to explain why a 26 year old rookie QB is a stupid idea 

[indykmj]

6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 I thought I heard he would be ready to go?? No matter really as you couldxwait a few games to let him get his feet wet.  

 

The (Briles-esque) system that Heuple runs at UT is remedial. Regardless of the timing of

his recovery from the knee injury, Hooker will have a steep learning curve absorbing the 

intricacies of an NFL offense.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:23 AM, RollerColt said:

I actually agree with you on this post. Jeff George, Michael Vick and Jared Goff are the picks used on teams trading up to 1 on a QB. Vick was electric as a player I’ll admit, but history generally isn’t on the side of the team who trades everything to go to 1.

It's not just the trading to #1 pick that Colts lost the chance at. 

 

They probably lost the chance to get #2 QB and #3 QB (if someone else gets to #3) as well... 

 

So unless history favors the team sitting tight and getting success with left overs at the QB position in the draft, not sure how to read into History  

 

History says "*" whatever you do in the draft at QB   so rarely it works out perfectly. 

 

And, Colts have already had huge luck getting Manning and Luck at the right time, so History says "* especially" probably