Contract extension thoughts

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t think some understand how important walker is. He is like another coach on the field. He taught Leonard how to break down tape. He takes notes and gives to all the LB from game film he watches. I don’t consider walker just another JAG.

 

Ehh, I think guys like Walker have their place, but at the right price. Especially when he's probably not good enough to be on the field in sub packages.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ehh, I think guys like Walker have their place, but at the right price. Especially when he's probably not good enough to be on the field in sub packages.

I don’t think Walker will have a huge price tag. We have 3 good LB. One of the strongest position groups on the team. I hope we keep in that way. It really shows  Eberflus was a LB coach with how great that group is. I think all our LB will have better year with Buckner. Walker just seems like a perfect colt and should be here a long time. 

[CheezyColt]

57 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I know but when you have two guys that can carry the load if one gets hurt it kind of makes that 4th one not as important.  Plus Taylor never got hurt in college.

I agree with your point, but to the bolded I'd just like to say neither was Parris Campbell. If both of them can stay healthy, it's going to be FUN to see them progress throughout the year.

[CR91]

4 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Plenty of players are close friends...but Ballard isn't thinking like that. And I am not even sure if players care that much...as long as their buddy gets paid somewhere. Do you think Allen being re-signed and Fleener being allowed to walk in FA had a negative effect on Luck? Weren't they best friends? Luck signed a big extension with the Colts like 3 months after Fleener signed in NO.

 

I think Ballard is going to value Walker the way he does...and if there's a match on how Walker wants to be paid...then it could work. But I think Walker is squarely in that average - good player range that Ballard would let walk...especially since he picked Okereke last year in the 3rd round.

 

Of course if Leonard is that close with Walker...that he would have no problem taking a few million less per year to accommodate Walker's salary...then I am sure Ballard would be down with a bit of an overpay. 

 

 

That's comparing apples to oranges. Fleener was never what the colts were thinking they were getting when they picked him early in the second. Walker has more then proven to be worth a 5th round pick as a solid starter and compliment to Leonard.

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

That's comparing apples to oranges. Fleener was never what the colts were thinking they were getting when they picked him early in the second. Walker has more then proven to be worth a 5th round pick as a solid starter and compliment to Leonard.

That is not 100% true. 

In 2014 he had 774 yds, 15.2 yd average and 8 TDs. 

What happened after that I don't know. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

A very good discussion on why they may have declined hookers option. Including why he isn’t a scheme fit.

 

[CR91]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

That is not 100% true. 

In 2014 he had 774 yds, 15.2 yd average and 8 TDs. 

What happened after that I don't know. 

 

One good season doesn't warrant a second round pick. He also failed in New Orleans and has been out of the NFL since

[crazycolt1]

27 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

One good season doesn't warrant a second round pick. He also failed in New Orleans and has been out of the NFL since

That one season made most all think he was going to work out. 

Like I said, he wasn't thought of as a bust till after 2014. Thus is why I said what happened after that I don't know. 

At the time he was drafter I can't think of anyone who thought he was going to be a bust. Some  thought the 3rd rd pick of Allen was not a good pick. 

We have to remember this Colts team didn't even have a starting caliber offensive player with the exception of Wayne. (who I think had to be coaxed into playing) 

The 2012 draft is what made Grigson the GM of the year. 

So you see, using hindsight is made easy when things turn south.  

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

That one season made most all think he was going to work out. 

Like I said, he wasn't thought of as a bust till after 2014. Thus is why I said what happened after that I don't know. 

At the time he was drafter I can't think of anyone who thought he was going to be a bust. Some  thought the 3rd rd pick of Allen was not a good pick. 

We have to remember this Colts team didn't even have a starting caliber offensive player with the exception of Wayne. (who I think had to be coaxed into playing) 

The 2014 draft is what made Grigson the GM of the year. 

So you see, using hindsight is made easy when things turn south.  

 

I think you mean 2012. All I'm saying is Fleenor didn't deserve a second contract with the colts unlike Walker.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

I think you mean 2012. All I'm saying is Fleenor didn't deserve a second contract with the colts unlike Walker.

Yeah, sorry bout that on the year. 

But you are 100% correct in your comment. 

[Jdubu]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

I disagree.   We need some backup at RB and his contract isn't expensive.   He's also a Ballard pick.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is cut or ends up on the practice squad.  i also wouldn't be surprised to see him stay.  

How many backs are you willing to keep though? Mack, Taylor, Hines, Nix and then Wilkins? I realize that Nix is the FB but I can’t see carrying 5 backs. Where do you cut elsewhere to make up for his spot? I absolutely like Wilkins, was a big supporter of him last two seasons but I don’t see where he would fit into the mix now. Is he eligible for the PS? I’d be happy to get him on there in the event of just in case. I hope you are right and he gets to stay but unless we trade Mack, I just can’t see him keeping a role for the 53 anyways. 

[Jdubu]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

You just nailed it perfectly why it won’t be hard to keep all three.  Kelly has said multiple times he wants to stay here. I think Kelly will have a new contact before the season starts.

Well to be fair, you always hear players say they want to retire a (insert team). You never hear one say I can’t wait until I hit FA so I can make the biggest bank possibly regardless of where it is. They say stuff well after there becomes a rift in the relationship (see Jacksonville). I think we keep Kelly unless he gets hurt this year and then you really have to be concerned that he has injury issues as he did to start the career. Gotta make sure Kelly can be durable and that last season wasn’t a fluke. 

[Jdubu]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t think Walker will have a huge price tag. We have 3 good LB. One of the strongest position groups on the team. I hope we keep in that way. It really shows  Eberflus was a LB coach with how great that group is. I think all our LB will have better year with Buckner. Walker just seems like a perfect colt and should be here a long time. 

Walker is going to become Gary Brackett syndromed. Really strong locker room guy, high character, decent enough on the field but if we are being honest for the on the field stuff, we can improve that spot and mitigate our cap space. Maybe he will take a colts friendly contract to stay. Idk 

[stitches]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Starting with comp picks, we probably aren't getting any in 2021. Check this: https://overthecap.com/draft/ While we probably qualify for two, only 32 comp picks are awarded. Our would probably be #38 and #40, as of right now. 

Thanks for the link. Yeah it seems like they've reduced the number of picks. It seems like they are taking the minimum guaranteed amount for Funchess. He can get to about 6.25M with incentives so it's possible we still get something for him(6th).

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We're $120m under the 2021 cap (using a conservative $215m cap). They have plenty of work to do, but plenty of flexibility to get it done. They're going to let replacement level players walk if they want significant money. They'll figure out what to do with the more highly valued guys. And then they'll fill the roster with lower priced guys.

 

You're really hung up on the QB. I mean, I know it's super important, but when we have the guy, we'll figure it out. If they keep Rivers for another year at $25m-ish, they'll still be reducing their QB cap hits by half. I doubt they go out and sign another veteran QB if Rivers doesn't work out, so the possibility remains that they move on to a young guy who comes cheap. 

I doubt we will go with a rookie QB without an expensive'ish placeholder/bridge while we are in win now mode. Unless Eason really impresses and we are ready to give him the reins after this season.

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I don't understand the Jags reference. They thought their team might be ready, so they went after it, hard. They weren't ready, their QB didn't work out, so they retooled this year. They'll be $100m under the cap in 2020. They're going to lose Ngakoue (sucks, but he's a B level player, and that decision is more about culture than money), and Fournette (not a great travesty, just like if we let Mack walk). They're fine on the cap, even though they got a little close for a year or two. Their problem was QBing, coaching, and Coughlin. Not cap space.

My point was they had tons of cap space and they burned through it in no time and we are not immune to it either. Then they had to start dissolving their defense partly because of bad contracts given and worries about how to pay everybody... And now a year after their run they are at the bottom again. Similar with the Rams... Look at what kind of position they are capwise. 

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And yeah, they're spending their rollover. That's what it's for, right? I don't see why that's relevant to this matter. 

It is what it's for but that wasn't my point. We had that rollover because we pretty much cleaned and rebuilt the whole roster over 2 years and had no one new to pay this we were rolling over money. Now Ballard will have tons of players he supposedly likes that will need to be paid. We are in a different phase now and we will need to be prudent with the money we give.

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As for future cap projections, I guess we don't know what will happen with the pandemic. But if the cap doesn't go up, every team will be tightening up. But that would be a one year situation, most likely. With the players' share going up and TV deals pending, within the next two years the cap will being going up significantly.

I am not saying this won't be the case. It's possible it is, but there are vere plausible scenarios that are much less optimistic.

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Lots of work to do, and they have to be disciplined moving forward. I just see it as normal business with the salary cap.

Yep, agree here... My point in this thread was that part of that discipline will require us to let some players we like go and I wouldn't be shocked if Ryan Kelly was one such player.

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, stitches said:

I doubt we will go with a rookie QB without an expensive'ish placeholder/bridge while we are in win now mode. Unless Eason really impresses and we are ready to give him the reins after this season.

 

 

Maybe not, but we're definitely not going to have a $50m combined cap hit for QBs moving forward. The Dolphins will have a ~$15m QB room, and that's with a strong veteran and the #3 pick. 

 

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My point was they had tons of cap space and they burned through it in no time and we are not immune to it either. Then they had to start dissolving their defense partly because of bad contracts given and worries about how to pay everybody... And now a year after their run they are at the bottom again. Similar with the Rams... Look at what kind of position they are capwise. 

 

Both teams saw a window and went after it hard, with a measure of success. The Rams really went after it. They also made the decision to sign a RB with a significant injury history to a top of market contract, something I don't think the Colts would do (I hope). And we'll see how it goes for both.

 

But I'm assuming the Colts don't dig themselves into that kind of hole. 

 

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It is what it's for but that wasn't my point. We had that rollover because we pretty much cleaned and rebuilt the whole roster over 2 years and had no one new to pay this we were rolling over money. Now Ballard will have tons of players he supposedly likes that will need to be paid. We are in a different phase now and we will need to be prudent with the money we give.

 

I don't know that we really disagree. They're in pretty good shape, but they have to be prudent and disciplined, and they'll probably have to let some players walk. It's just the cost of doing business. 

[Myles]

7 hours ago, Jdubu said:

How many backs are you willing to keep though? Mack, Taylor, Hines, Nix and then Wilkins? I realize that Nix is the FB but I can’t see carrying 5 backs. Where do you cut elsewhere to make up for his spot? I absolutely like Wilkins, was a big supporter of him last two seasons but I don’t see where he would fit into the mix now. Is he eligible for the PS? I’d be happy to get him on there in the event of just in case. I hope you are right and he gets to stay but unless we trade Mack, I just can’t see him keeping a role for the 53 anyways. 

I had forgotten about Nix.    Wilkins will be gone if Nix stays.  

[Jdubu]

25 minutes ago, Myles said:

I had forgotten about Nix.    Wilkins will be gone if Nix stays.  

Yeah, it’s easy to do since we haven’t ever really been a FB style team. I don’t know much at all about how well this Nix guy was. We certainly have shown our hand. We want to run and run hard. I think this goes well with having an older, wiser QB like Rivers. He is t the phenom he was in his prime as a charger so having the run game should compliment him well. 

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

That one season made most all think he was going to work out. 

Like I said, he wasn't thought of as a bust till after 2014. Thus is why I said what happened after that I don't know. 

At the time he was drafter I can't think of anyone who thought he was going to be a bust. Some  thought the 3rd rd pick of Allen was not a good pick. 

We have to remember this Colts team didn't even have a starting caliber offensive player with the exception of Wayne. (who I think had to be coaxed into playing) 

The 2012 draft is what made Grigson the GM of the year. 

So you see, using hindsight is made easy when things turn south.  

I think despite Fleener's good stats, he had a reputation for dropping passes.  He later admitted that the lack of stripes on the football from his college days hurt his ability to see/track the NFL ball....if you believe that.

 

On offense, we had Reggie, and AC. That's it.

 

But that draft was a monster for skill positions.  Luck at QB, TY became WR#1, TEs Fleener and Allen, then don't forget Vick Ballard.  We signed Donnie Avery who played well in the slot, and Ahmad Bradshaw (I think it was that year), and hired Arians.  So the offense was stacked pretty well in one off season.

 

And its kind of the opposite approach as Ballard.  Grigson had to sign middle of the road FAs for the oline because all of the draft picks and other money went to the skilled positions.  Whereas Ballard has devoted high picks to the oline but used mid round picks and FA for the skilled positions. 

 

Just an interesting difference in approach, IMO.

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think despite Fleener's good stats, he had a reputation for dropping passes.  He later admitted that the lack of stripes on the football from his college days hurt his ability to see/track the NFL ball....if you believe that.

 

On offense, we had Reggie, and AC. That's it.

 

But that draft was a monster for skill positions.  Luck at QB, TY became WR#1, TEs Fleener and Allen, then don't forget Vick Ballard.  We signed Donnie Avery who played well in the slot, and Ahmad Bradshaw (I think it was that year), and hired Arians.  So the offense was stacked pretty well in one off season.

 

And its kind of the opposite approach as Ballard.  Grigson had to sign middle of the road FAs for the oline because all of the draft picks and other money went to the skilled positions.  Whereas Ballard has devoted high picks to the oline but used mid round picks and FA for the skilled positions. 

 

Just an interesting difference in approach, IMO.

We also were in cap hades when Polian and son were fired.