Contract extension thoughts

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

I made a note that 2021 would be a busy off-season for the colts, however with over 120 mil in cap next year, the colts could easily bring back everyone they want.

Yep. And if we have a great season there may not even be the need to go sign any high priced outside FA. Which will make us be able to go sign our own that we want back. Kelly is at the top of the list to bring back. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

They really can't though...unless everyone they want is a couple of guys. That cap space will go very fast if they start extending a bunch of players. 

 

I think we might see Ballard follow the BAL and NE models of letting guys walk and collecting comp picks...or potentially trade them if the value is there.

No one says they have to go sign every on that list to long term contracts. Half of those are just bridge one year cheap contracts that we can either bring back or not.  We have plenty to go sign Kelly and Walker. Even Mack if we want.  We won’t need the money for a huge Jacoby contract.  We could probably sign Kelly, Leonard, Walker, smith and Mack and still have a lot left. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

That could be an option...although he is probably at least a year (if not more) away from even learning the position...let alone playing it at the NFL level. 

 

I do think Ballard will look to be more efficient on the OL. Whether that's Kelly or Smith...it's going to be very difficult to keep all of them together...with Nelson likely being one of the highest paid OL players in the NFL...not to mention having to replace AC eventually.

AC contract will probably be replaced by someone we draft on a rookie deal. So in reality that saves us money on the oline. Nelson can be delayed. Smith could even be delayed so it isn’t the same year as Leonard. We will eventually have a QB on a rookie deal starting also.  Gives us more money. 

[shasta519]

15 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

AC contract will probably be replaced by someone we draft on a rookie deal. So in reality that saves us money on the oline. Nelson can be delayed. Smith could even be delayed so it isn’t the same year as Leonard. We will eventually have a QB on a rookie deal starting also.  Gives us more money. 

 

AC can be replaced by an early pick...but even still...you have upwards of $50M tied up in the other 3. I think Ballard will do what he can...but if Smith fancies himself a top 5 RT...what can he do? 

 

I am just saying...there are going to have be some efficiencies at some point.

[CR91]

39 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

They really can't though...unless everyone they want is a couple of guys. That cap space will go very fast if they start extending a bunch of players. 

 

I think we might see Ballard follow the BAL and NE models of letting guys walk and collecting comp picks...or potentially trade them if the value is there.

 

I'm not saying re-sign everyone, but guys like Kelly and Walker should be re-signed

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

15 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

AC can be replaced by an early pick...but even still...you have upwards of $50M tied up in the other 3. I think Ballard will do what he can...but if Smith fancies himself a top 5 RT...what can he do? 

 

I am just saying...there are going to have be some efficiencies at some point.

Nelson, Kelly, and smith aren’t going to cost 50 million.  Maybe 40. We know how much ballard loves the trenches. That is defiantly where he will spend the money. Just like he spent the money on Buckner. Oline and defensive line.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I'm not saying re-sign everyone, but guys like Kelly and Walker should be re-signed

Walker won’t even cost much. If all we do is pay the stars we lose the foundation of the team and become too heavy. That never works.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Most likely most of that cap next year will be used to sign our own then some big priced FA.

 

Rivers will take a big chunk of that 123 million if he decides to come back.

 

 

[shasta519]

24 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

No one says they have to go sign every on that list to long term contracts. Half of those are just bridge one year cheap contracts that we can either bring back or not.  We have plenty to go sign Kelly and Walker. Even Mack if we want.  We won’t need the money for a huge Jacoby contract.  We could probably sign Kelly, Leonard, Walker, smith and Mack and still have a lot left. 

 

They probably *could* sign all of those players....but it wouldn't be prudent or practical. It would destroy their future flexibility to replace those bridge and expiring contracts...AND to take advantage of the FA/trade market. Not to mention they are now in a competitive window...and don't have a long-term QB...so they have to have the flexibility to address that as well (in case they can't find a good cheap one in the draft).

 

The Colts got Buckner...because he was on a team faced with a similar scenario where they knew they could only pay a handful of guys. And since the Colts made the decision to pay Buckner...that decision will have an impact on current Colts players.

 

I look at players like Mack and Walker...both are in a similar situation. Mack is a better player than Walker...but they are both somewhat limited players at a position where a younger, cheaper, more versatile and likely better player was drafted recently in first 3 rounds. So unless they are taking a massive hometown discount...that seems like exactly the type of players Ballard would let walk and get "his bags" elsewhere...while Ballard collects whatever comp pick he can. 

 

It's a harsh reality of the business side of the NFL...but at least we have Ballard to navigate it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I think most of these one year deals will eventually be replaced by draft picks. We have a lot that we won’t be spending money on in the future which will give us even more cap flexibility. You still have to keep some foundation pieces that aren’t the stars of the team or it all collapses.

[shasta519]

38 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Nelson, Kelly, and smith aren’t going to cost 50 million.  Maybe 40. We know how much ballard loves the trenches. That is defiantly where he will spend the money. Just like he spent the money on Buckner. Oline and defensive line.

 

50 is too high in hindsight...but it won't be 40...unless Nelson gives the Colts some love. 

 

Nelson is one of the best OL players in the NFL (not just Gs). He is going to set the market for what Gs are paid on his talent alone...but then you factor in what they consider his impact to be. He will get at least $18M year.

 

Smith is being talked about as a top 10 RT...and those contracts will likely start to explode...so $15M isn't out of the question. 

 

And Kelly is definitely near the top for Cs...and will likely command a slight bump from his 5th year option...so $11-12M.

 

Let's do some quick math...the Colts have $49M invested into the OL...third in the NFL. AC is signed through next year...but assuming he does in fact retire after two years and no one is extended early...that will free up some cap space. So will Glow when his contract ends. But that money alone won't cover  Smith, Nelson, Kelly, early draft pick/s (to replace the starters) and improved depth. So that number could easily get to $60M+...if not even higher (and that assumes AC does in fact retire)...and that means no significant outside spending on the OL either.

 

That will lead the NFL...and likely by a good margin. I am not saying Ballard won't go there...but I am sure he would love to be more efficient if possible.

[Superman]

I'm really not sure where all the concern comes from. We're in great cap shape, we don't have a a QB who is going to be resetting the market anytime soon, and we have a bunch of young guys on rookie contracts who are playing major roles, on both sides of the ball.

 

Also, the cap is getting ready to start bumping up pretty strongly in the next year or two.

 

Of course we can't keep everyone. And truth be told, we don't want to keep everyone. Probably aren't re-signing Mack or Hooker, right? AC might retire soon. Kelly, Autry, Houston, all kind of 50/50 depending on how 2020 goes and what we might have behind them. I think Hilton stays. Walker is a toss up. The rest are mostly replaceable JAGs -- Pascal, Alie Cox, Odum, Stewart, etc. Several of them are restricted.

 

And now we're at the 2018 draft class, with Leonard, Nelson, Smith, etc. And it will probably cost some serious bucks to keep those guys, but again, we're in great cap shape and we won't have a massive QB extension to worry about. 

 

And if they keep drafting well, we can let average-ish guys walk, keep the really good guys, and still make some FA signings when the opportunity presents itself. And if they draft really well, every once in a while we'll let a B+ guy walk in FA, but we'll have a pipeline. 

 

The only thing sort of abnormal right now is that we have a bunch of one year guys coming up in 2020. I think the plan is to start playing the comp pick game. I think comp picks have come to be overrated to an extent, but if you can put your team in position to get a couple extra picks by signing one year guys, showcasing them and then letting them walk, that's a decent way to add some value in the draft.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

We are even in better shape in the future because we won’t be paying a backup QB what we are right now. AC contract can be replaced by a rookie deal the next few years.  If we can get Eason playing by 2022 or another young QB that gives us even more flexibility to keep our own. Now that doesn’t mean all the one year deals we signed this year. It means the foundation pieces we have drafted. Like Superman said we should not be concerned because we are in such great shape.

[stitches]

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

I'm really not sure where all the concern comes from. We're in great cap shape, we don't have a a QB who is going to be resetting the market anytime soon, and we have a bunch of young guys on rookie contracts who are playing major roles, on both sides of the ball.

 

Also, the cap is getting ready to start bumping up pretty strongly in the next year or two.

 

Of course we can't keep everyone. And truth be told, we don't want to keep everyone. Probably aren't re-signing Mack or Hooker, right? AC might retire soon. Kelly, Autry, Houston, all kind of 50/50 depending on how 2020 goes and what we might have behind them. I think Hilton stays. Walker is a toss up. The rest are mostly replaceable JAGs -- Pascal, Alie Cox, Odum, Stewart, etc. Several of them are restricted.

 

And now we're at the 2018 draft class, with Leonard, Nelson, Smith, etc. And it will probably cost some serious bucks to keep those guys, but again, we're in great cap shape and we won't have a massive QB extension to worry about. 

 

And if they keep drafting well, we can let average-ish guys walk, keep the really good guys, and still make some FA signings when the opportunity presents itself. And if they draft really well, every once in a while we'll let a B+ guy walk in FA, but we'll have a pipeline. 

 

The only thing sort of abnormal right now is that we have a bunch of one year guys coming up in 2020. I think the plan is to start playing the comp pick game. I think comp picks have come to be overrated to an extent, but if you can put your team in position to get a couple extra picks by signing one year guys, showcasing them and then letting them walk, that's a decent way to add some value in the draft.

I think you are underestimating just how quick we can get in a position to have to let people we want to keep walk. For example if I told you we are spending 40M over the cap for this year, would you believe me? The only reason we can do that is because we have carryover from previous years. The good thing is that a lot of those expire next year... the bad thing is... a lot of those expire next year and you have to either replace them or retain them... thus you have to pay. Right now the best thing is we don't have long-term money locked in a QB(and we can clear 55M+ just from QBs next year). The bad  news is - we don't have a long-term QB at all. We will have to either pay for one next year(Rivers? or another one?) or draft one... or both. Again - I'm not saying we are not in a good cap position - we definitely are. But you can get from good cap position to bad cap position real quick. Ask The Jags for example. 

 

I'm also not sure the cap will continue to grow with the coronavirus likely raging for at least one more year and games very likely not being played with fans in the stands. I guess in a way they might compensate for it with the TV product... but we really don't know how it will affect the cap right now. 

 

About the comp picks ... I just checked the projections for next year. The weird thing is... overthecap actually projects us to get a couple of picks despite the Rivers signing:

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

 

The year after we will probably get even more comp picks and better ones too so that should help with replacing the talent we lose. 

 

 

 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

I'm not saying re-sign everyone, but guys like Kelly and Walker should be re-signed

 

Kelly...yes. A starting C is well worth the money...and those contracts aren't massive (yet). I wanted Alex Mack probably more than any other FA in the past decade.

 

But I have to disagree on Walker...unless it's a very cheap deal...like $5-6M/year. It's JMO...but Walker is a run-stuffing LB who has pretty strong limitations in pass coverage. He is a very average player...as his PFF grade would indicate. But I think he will want a legit starting MLB contract...and I wouldn't pay it...not with Okereke here and Leonard slated to get extended next offseason.

[shasta519]

36 minutes ago, Superman said:

I'm really not sure where all the concern comes from. We're in great cap shape, we don't have a a QB who is going to be resetting the market anytime soon, and we have a bunch of young guys on rookie contracts who are playing major roles, on both sides of the ball.

 

Also, the cap is getting ready to start bumping up pretty strongly in the next year or two.

 

Of course we can't keep everyone. And truth be told, we don't want to keep everyone. Probably aren't re-signing Mack or Hooker, right? AC might retire soon. Kelly, Autry, Houston, all kind of 50/50 depending on how 2020 goes and what we might have behind them. I think Hilton stays. Walker is a toss up. The rest are mostly replaceable JAGs -- Pascal, Alie Cox, Odum, Stewart, etc. Several of them are restricted.

 

And now we're at the 2018 draft class, with Leonard, Nelson, Smith, etc. And it will probably cost some serious bucks to keep those guys, but again, we're in great cap shape and we won't have a massive QB extension to worry about. 

 

And if they keep drafting well, we can let average-ish guys walk, keep the really good guys, and still make some FA signings when the opportunity presents itself. And if they draft really well, every once in a while we'll let a B+ guy walk in FA, but we'll have a pipeline. 

 

The only thing sort of abnormal right now is that we have a bunch of one year guys coming up in 2020. I think the plan is to start playing the comp pick game. I think comp picks have come to be overrated to an extent, but if you can put your team in position to get a couple extra picks by signing one year guys, showcasing them and then letting them walk, that's a decent way to add some value in the draft.

 

I don't think anyone is concerned about the cap situation (I am not)...I am just talking about prudence. There has just long been this "pay your own" mantra here...but for many reasons I have never found it to be practical (especially when people list like 7 guys that should get extended) or even a desirable approach...and we are already seeing that play out in regards to guys like Mack and Hooker. 

 

It's just common sense that you let some guys walk...and refill the pipeline. It's a continual cycle. And Ballard obviously values some flexibility...so overpaying your average - above average players is bad business.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

24 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Kelly...yes. A starting C is well worth the money...and those contracts aren't massive (yet). I wanted Alex Mack probably more than any other FA in the past decade.

 

But I have to disagree on Walker...unless it's a very cheap deal...like $5-6M/year. It's JMO...but Walker is a run-stuffing LB who has pretty strong limitations in pass coverage. He is a very average player...as his PFF grade would indicate. But I think he will want a legit starting MLB contract...and I wouldn't pay it...not with Okereke here and Leonard slated to get extended next offseason.

No reason to worry what he might want when nobody knows what he will be thinking or something what Ballard is thinking. Okereke being on a rookie deal means we can go ahead and pay walker. I mean what is the middle salary for a MLB. It can’t be that much. Walker will probably be able to be kept for someone where around six or seven million. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I don't think anyone is concerned about the cap situation (I am not)...I am just talking about prudence. There has just long been this "pay your own" mantra here...but for many reasons I have never found it to be practical (especially when people list like 7 guys that should get extended) or even a desirable approach...and we are already seeing that play out in regards to guys like Mack and Hooker. 

 

It's just common sense that you let some guys walk...and refill the pipeline. It's a continual cycle. And Ballard obviously values some flexibility...so overpaying your average - above average players is bad business.

Who is talking about over paying a average or good starter. Let’s start with fair. If Ballard is fair they very well could stay if the team wants them back. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

31 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think you are underestimating just how quick we can get in a position to have to let people we want to keep walk. For example if I told you we are spending 40M over the cap for this year, would you believe me? The only reason we can do that is because we have carryover from previous years. The good thing is that a lot of those expire next year... the bad thing is... a lot of those expire next year and you have to either replace them or retain them... thus you have to pay. Right now the best thing is we don't have long-term money locked in a QB(and we can clear 55M+ just from QBs next year). The bad  news is - we don't have a long-term QB at all. We will have to either pay for one next year(Rivers? or another one?) or draft one... or both. Again - I'm not saying we are not in a good cap position - we definitely are. But you can get from good cap position to bad cap position real quick. Ask The Jags for example. 

 

I'm also not sure the cap will continue to grow with the coronavirus likely raging for at least one more year and games very likely not being played with fans in the stands. I guess in a way they might compensate for it with the TV product... but we really don't know how it will affect the cap right now. 

 

About the comp picks ... I just checked the projections for next year. The weird thing is... overthecap actually projects us to get a couple of picks despite the Rivers signing:

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

 

The year after we will probably get even more comp picks and better ones too so that should help with replacing the talent we lose. 

 

 

 

Or maybe a year is all Eason needs. But if rivers does well he will want to come back and the team will also. But at least we Eason as a backup on a cheap deal instead of 21 m. Then the following year hopefully he can start or we draft someone higher that will start.

[CR91]

27 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Kelly...yes. A starting C is well worth the money...and those contracts aren't massive (yet). I wanted Alex Mack probably more than any other FA in the past decade.

 

But I have to disagree on Walker...unless it's a very cheap deal...like $5-6M/year. It's JMO...but Walker is a run-stuffing LB who has pretty strong limitations in pass coverage. He is a very average player...as his PFF grade would indicate. But I think he will want a legit starting MLB contract...and I wouldn't pay it...not with Okereke here and Leonard slated to get extended next offseason.

 

Walker is not gonna command top dollar also I rather not upset Leonard with how close those two are.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Reich has heaped praise on Kelly, calling him the best center in the league. Hyperbole, for sure, but the new regime likes him. If he stays healthy this year, I definitely value him over Smith or Glowinski. 

Kelly stays agree, I value Smith and Kelly close to the same, Glowinski no.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Kelly stays agree, I value Smith and Kelly close to the same, Glowinski no.

Pinter might be the glow replacement eventually.  Plus I think Glow is 28 so if he plays out the next two years he will be 30 and it might be time to move on. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Pinter might be the glow replacement eventually.  Plus I think Glow is 28 so if he plays out the next two years he will be 30 and it might be time to move on. 

Agree, I think thats the front office plan provided Pinter plays well. They seem to like him!

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

I think you are underestimating just how quick we can get in a position to have to let people we want to keep walk. For example if I told you we are spending 40M over the cap for this year, would you believe me? The only reason we can do that is because we have carryover from previous years. The good thing is that a lot of those expire next year... the bad thing is... a lot of those expire next year and you have to either replace them or retain them... thus you have to pay. Right now the best thing is we don't have long-term money locked in a QB(and we can clear 55M+ just from QBs next year). The bad  news is - we don't have a long-term QB at all. We will have to either pay for one next year(Rivers? or another one?) or draft one... or both. Again - I'm not saying we are not in a good cap position - we definitely are. But you can get from good cap position to bad cap position real quick. Ask The Jags for example. 

 

I'm also not sure the cap will continue to grow with the coronavirus likely raging for at least one more year and games very likely not being played with fans in the stands. I guess in a way they might compensate for it with the TV product... but we really don't know how it will affect the cap right now. 

 

About the comp picks ... I just checked the projections for next year. The weird thing is... overthecap actually projects us to get a couple of picks despite the Rivers signing:

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

 

The year after we will probably get even more comp picks and better ones too so that should help with replacing the talent we lose. 

 

 

 

 

Agree...if Luck was still here...the calculus changes. But him leaving really created a lot of uncertainty.

 

So even though they clear all of that cap space next year with Rivers and JB...they still have to approach the situation as if Luck/Rivers is still here...because they need the flexibility to address QB in that way (especially if they think they have a shot at winning the SB the next few seasons). What if Rodgers becomes available in a couple years...or Stafford is a FA...or some team is willing to do a Jimmy G type trade with a guy who is a soon to be FA? 

 

That money almost has to be earmarked until it doesn't. So until they actually solve the QB situation...we probably shouldn't act like they don't have a franchise QB contract to worry about. (As an aside...this is really why I wanted Jordan Love...but I digress).

 

That said...it's not a bad cap situation at all. But things can certainly change. And TBH...I wouldn't mind seeing Ballard turn a player or two into a good pick right before they hit FA. 

 

 

[shasta519]

27 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Who is talking about over paying a average or good starter. Let’s start with fair. If Ballard is fair they very well could stay if the team wants them back. 

 

Fair to whom? The team or the player? I don't understand what you are saying here. The players want to get paid...as they should...and Ballard wants to build a great and balanced team that can compete and win for several years...as he should. Those two ideals can co-exist to an extent...but eventually...they clash. It's just the nature of a salary cap. 

[Superman]

35 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think you are underestimating just how quick we can get in a position to have to let people we want to keep walk. For example if I told you we are spending 40M over the cap for this year, would you believe me? The only reason we can do that is because we have carryover from previous years. The good thing is that a lot of those expire next year... the bad thing is... a lot of those expire next year and you have to either replace them or retain them... thus you have to pay. Right now the best thing is we don't have long-term money locked in a QB(and we can clear 55M+ just from QBs next year). The bad  news is - we don't have a long-term QB at all. We will have to either pay for one next year(Rivers? or another one?) or draft one... or both. Again - I'm not saying we are not in a good cap position - we definitely are. But you can get from good cap position to bad cap position real quick. Ask The Jags for example. 

 

I'm also not sure the cap will continue to grow with the coronavirus likely raging for at least one more year and games very likely not being played with fans in the stands. I guess in a way they might compensate for it with the TV product... but we really don't know how it will affect the cap right now. 

 

About the comp picks ... I just checked the projections for next year. The weird thing is... overthecap actually projects us to get a couple of picks despite the Rivers signing:

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

 

The year after we will probably get even more comp picks and better ones too so that should help with replacing the talent we lose. 

 

Starting with comp picks, we probably aren't getting any in 2021. Check this: https://overthecap.com/draft/ While we probably qualify for two, only 32 comp picks are awarded. Our would probably be #38 and #40, as of right now. 

 

We're $120m under the 2021 cap (using a conservative $215m cap). They have plenty of work to do, but plenty of flexibility to get it done. They're going to let replacement level players walk if they want significant money. They'll figure out what to do with the more highly valued guys. And then they'll fill the roster with lower priced guys.

 

You're really hung up on the QB. I mean, I know it's super important, but when we have the guy, we'll figure it out. If they keep Rivers for another year at $25m-ish, they'll still be reducing their QB cap hits by half. I doubt they go out and sign another veteran QB if Rivers doesn't work out, so the possibility remains that they move on to a young guy who comes cheap. 

 

I don't understand the Jags reference. They thought their team might be ready, so they went after it, hard. They weren't ready, their QB didn't work out, so they retooled this year. They'll be $100m under the cap in 2020. They're going to lose Ngakoue (sucks, but he's a B level player, and that decision is more about culture than money), and Fournette (not a great travesty, just like if we let Mack walk). They're fine on the cap, even though they got a little close for a year or two. Their problem was QBing, coaching, and Coughlin. Not cap space.

 

And yeah, they're spending their rollover. That's what it's for, right? I don't see why that's relevant to this matter. 

 

As for future cap projections, I guess we don't know what will happen with the pandemic. But if the cap doesn't go up, every team will be tightening up. But that would be a one year situation, most likely. With the players' share going up and TV deals pending, within the next two years the cap will being going up significantly.

 

Lots of work to do, and they have to be disciplined moving forward. I just see it as normal business with the salary cap.

[Superman]

44 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I don't think anyone is concerned about the cap situation (I am not)...I am just talking about prudence. There has just long been this "pay your own" mantra here...but for many reasons I have never found it to be practical (especially when people list like 7 guys that should get extended) or even a desirable approach...and we are already seeing that play out in regards to guys like Mack and Hooker. 

 

It's just common sense that you let some guys walk...and refill the pipeline. It's a continual cycle. And Ballard obviously values some flexibility...so overpaying your average - above average players is bad business.

 

If you're talking about a strict adherence to "pay your own" then you're right. But no one said "pay all of our own," so I think we're okay. Let players walk when they don't fit in the long term view of the team, or when you find them to be easily replaceable. Especially if you identify their potential replacements in advance.

[shasta519]

25 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Walker is not gonna command top dollar also I rather not upset Leonard with how close those two are.

 

Plenty of players are close friends...but Ballard isn't thinking like that. And I am not even sure if players care that much...as long as their buddy gets paid somewhere. Do you think Allen being re-signed and Fleener being allowed to walk in FA had a negative effect on Luck? Weren't they best friends? Luck signed a big extension with the Colts like 3 months after Fleener signed in NO.

 

I think Ballard is going to value Walker the way he does...and if there's a match on how Walker wants to be paid...then it could work. But I think Walker is squarely in that average - good player range that Ballard would let walk...especially since he picked Okereke last year in the 3rd round.

 

Of course if Leonard is that close with Walker...that he would have no problem taking a few million less per year to accommodate Walker's salary...then I am sure Ballard would be down with a bit of an overpay. 

 

[Jdubu]

7 hours ago, DoubleE Colt said:

As we know the Colts have a great deal of players becoming free agents at the end of this season.....are there any that you think Ballard will extend this off-season realistically? The obvious one that jumps out to me I guess is Ryan Kelly....would be nice to secure him long-term as the o line is such a strength and it probably wouldn't cost much more on his cap hit this year which is £10 mill. 

I think Kelly definitely gets a new contract. 

7 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Kelly and Walker. I still don’t put it past Mack getting one. He isn’t going to get what everyone thinks in the open market.

If Mack gets a new contract from us, I’d be extremely shocked. It would rival the shocking day that we all heard Luck retired, I’d be about that shocked. Ok, level under that shock but ...lol 

6 hours ago, Myles said:

Yeah, but taking up cap space with Mac, while having Taylor on the roster seems inefficient.   Probably would have to be around $5 million per season.   Wilkin is good through 2022 and is only set to make $241,000 in 2021 ans 2022.  Not saying he's the caliber of Mack, but the value is there.

I don’t see any way that Wilkins is even on the team come cutdown days unless he balls out big in camp/PS and Mack becomes a malcontent and gets traded. 

3 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

They really can't though...unless everyone they want is a couple of guys. That cap space will go very fast if they start extending a bunch of players. 

 

I think we might see Ballard follow the BAL and NE models of letting guys walk and collecting comp picks...or potentially trade them if the value is there.

I think you can re-sign several players and get them structured perfectly to coincide with each other. That’s what the cap guys jobs are for. Cowboys and other teams seem to always find ways to sign multiple high priced guys.  I’d trust we could too somehow. We have to look good and be in the hunt for a title though to do it but I think we have the talent to do that. 
 

as for letting talent walk like a few other successful teams, it’s possible. TY is one of those types. Kelly could potentially be one if we have a solid RG to flank the newer center. Could Pinter be one of those 2 position players to swap out? Idk but they will definitely have to construct and choose where they are putting the monies. 
 

if only we could have a glimpse into the decision making rooms to see exactly how they are thinking they could construct the team while sacrificing a few of our big talent and fan favorite guys. Big Q will retire here I believe 100%. walker, 50/50 chance he gets another contract but if it comes between keeping Walker or Leonard or even our RT Smith, I believe Smith gets that money here. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I don’t think some understand how important walker is. He is like another coach on the field. He taught Leonard how to break down tape. He takes notes and gives to all the LB from game film he watches. I don’t consider walker just another JAG.

[jameszeigler834]

4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

No one says they have to go sign every on that list to long term contracts. Half of those are just bridge one year cheap contracts that we can either bring back or not.  We have plenty to go sign Kelly and Walker. Even Mack if we want.  We won’t need the money for a huge Jacoby contract.  We could probably sign Kelly, Leonard, Walker, smith and Mack and still have a lot left. 

My thought is both Jacoby and Mack will likely be gone in 2021.

[Myles]

2 hours ago, Jdubu said:

 

I don’t see any way that Wilkins is even on the team come cutdown days unless he balls out big in camp/PS and Mack becomes a malcontent and gets traded. 

 

 

I disagree.   We need some backup at RB and his contract isn't expensive.   He's also a Ballard pick.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is cut or ends up on the practice squad.  i also wouldn't be surprised to see him stay.  

[GoColts8818]

Right now I’d say you keep Hilton, AC, and Walker and look at everyone else after this season.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

I disagree.   We need some backup at RB and his contract isn't expensive.   He's also a Ballard pick.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is cut or ends up on the practice squad.  i also wouldn't be surprised to see him stay.  

Well with Taylor and Mack we really don’t need a backup. He won’t even get any playing time unless both of them get injured. 

[Myles]

7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Well with Taylor and Mack we really don’t need a backup. He won’t even get any playing time unless both of them get injured. 

The Colts carried 4 RB's on the team last season and Wilkins was the second leading rusher with limited carries.   111 carries in 2 seasons with a 5.8 yards per carry average.   

Again, I'm not saying he will be kept, but we currently do not know.  

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

The Colts carried 4 RB's on the team last season and Wilkins was the second leading rusher with limited carries.   111 carries in 2 seasons with a 5.8 yards per carry average.   

Again, I'm not saying he will be kept, but we currently do not know.  

They also didn’t have a fullback last year.  They have to make up that roster spot someplace and they will probably have three QBs all year so it’s going to be hard to find a spot for a fourth running back but I do agree with you we don’t know for sure what’s going to happen and there are much crazier ideas out there than Wilkins making the final roster.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

The Colts carried 4 RB's on the team last season and Wilkins was the second leading rusher with limited carries.   111 carries in 2 seasons with a 5.8 yards per carry average.   

Again, I'm not saying he will be kept, but we currently do not know.  

I know but when you have two guys that can carry the load if one gets hurt it kind of makes that 4th one not as important.  Plus Taylor never got hurt in college.

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

They also didn’t have a fullback last year.  They have to make up that roster spot someplace and they will probably have three QBs all year so it’s going to be hard to find a spot for a fourth running back but I do agree with you we don’t know for sure what’s going to happen and there are much crazier ideas out there than Wilkins making the final roster.

Good point on the FB, as I totally forgot about that.  

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, stitches said:

I don't really disagree, he's one of the better cerners in the league, but we will still have to pick and choose who to sign and who to let go as more and more players become extension eligible. Both Braden and Quenton become extension eligible after this year(if I'm not mistaken). AC is the highest paid OT in the league. It's possible Ballard just decides to let Kelly go and replace him with a much cheaper option from the draft.  

I think you've nailed the problem, that Ballard can't overinvest in the oline to a large degree, but I think there is a better solution than to let Kelly walk.

 

He'll replace AC with a much cheaper option from the draft.  He has to anyway since AC is old, so our successor LT will likely be on a rookie contract for 4 or 5 years.   Ballard will pay Kelly, IMO, but as always, it will come down to price.

 

He can also grant Nelson the fifth year while extending Smith who's contract will be rolling off in between Kelly's and Nelson.  Ballard can stagger the contracts so I can see all three of those players being extended. 

 

We may have to draft an OT and a RG next season so the rookie deals will keep the overall oline expense reasonably in check. 

 

You're correct IMO, Ballard can't have a ton of money concentrated in the oline.  But having three guys signed and the other two on rookie deals could be the way to go.  He's gonna have to draft an LT very soon for no other reason than to simply to replace AC, IMO.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think you've nailed the problem, that Ballard can't overinvest in the oline to a large degree, but I think there is a better solution than to let Kelly walk.

 

He'll replace AC with a much cheaper option from the draft.  He has to anyway since AC is old, so our successor LT will likely be on a rookie contract for 4 or 5 years.   Ballard will pay Kelly, IMO, but as always, it will come down to price.

 

He can also grant Nelson the fifth year while extending Smith who's contract will be rolling off in between Kelly's and Nelson.  Ballard can stagger the contracts so I can see all three of those players being extended. 

 

We may have to draft an OT and a G next season so the rookie deals will keep the overall oline expense reasonably in check. 

 

You're correct IMO, Ballard can't have a ton of money concentrated in the oline.  But having three guys signed and the other two on rookie deals could be the way to go.  He's gonna have to draft an LT very soon for no other reason than to simply to replace AC, IMO.  

You just nailed it perfectly why it won’t be hard to keep all three.  Kelly has said multiple times he wants to stay here. I think Kelly will have a new contact before the season starts.