Who is the GOAT

[NFLUp]

On 4/8/2020 at 9:01 PM, coltsorioles said:

Tom Brady missed a season the patriots went 11-5. Peyton missed a season the Colts went 2-14.  That alone should tell you how much more valuable Peyton was than Brady.   Also Brady was suspended and the patriots went 3-1 beating 2 playoff teams and at Arizona with gronk as well. Peyton retires the next season the Broncos with the same players dont even make the playoffs. 

Another poor argument.

All this says is that Belichick drafts and prepares backup QBs better than the Colts ever did.

Did any backup Colts QB ever do anything when he left Indy?

[NFLUp]

On 4/9/2020 at 10:30 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What is strange is how Patriots fans always said Peyton choked in the big game. Yet he was 3-1 vs Brady in AFC Title Games. Peyton is far from a choker. He probably should've won 3 or 4 SB's but he still won 2 SB's and 3-1 in Title games vs the so-called non-choker. Explain how a choker can be 3-1 in AFC Title Games vs someone that never chokes? You can't. Brady also had the biggest choke in NFL history in 2007. 18-0 and a 14 point favorite vs the Giants in SB 42. A chance at 19-0, he and his offense puts up 14 points lol. Brady is far from perfect. He was able to win so many rings because he had the same great coach for 20 years. 

Why do you only go by AFCCGs?  Peyton other important games to Brady, including other playoff games.

[NFLUp]

Once again, only Colt fans think Peyton is the GOAT.

He was never referred to as the GOAT during his career or afterwards by anyone.

Brady is universally referred to as the GOAT by media, many NFL players themselves, and most non-Colt NFL fans.

 

Not sure why Colt fans can’t simply accept this.  This is the most obvious case of denial that I’ve seen in a long time.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, NFLUp said:

Why do you only go by AFCCGs?  Peyton other important games to Brady, including other playoff games.

I am not just going by those but was pointing out in the 2nd biggest game of every year that Peyton's teams were 3-1 vs Brady's teams. Pats fans are notorious for calling Peyton a choker which is false. Actually without Peyton all those years the Colts may have not even been a playoff team most of the time. He carried the Colts a lot. 

 

There are fans of other fanbases that think Peyton is the GOAT. I have an uncle who has been a die hard Steelers fan since the 70's, he grew up watching them. He says Peyton is the GOAT and much better than Bradshaw who has more rings. He loves the Steelers.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 hour ago, NFLUp said:

Brady is universally referred to as the GOAT by media, many NFL players themselves, and most non-Colt NFL fans.

 

Because most people are living in the now.

 

Any true NFL fan knows Otto Graham is the real GOAT.

 

10 championships.  Every major accomplishment that Manning, Brady, Montana or any other QB can claim, Otto did it first.  And he did it when QBs were treated like real football players.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Because most people are living in the now.

 

Any true NFL fan knows Otto Graham is the real GOAT.

 

10 championships.  Every major accomplishment that Manning, Brady, Montana or any other QB can claim, Otto did it first.  And he did it when QBs were treated like real football players.

It is tough to compare the era Graham played in to the SB era. Graham won a lot but there was less games played and less teams back then. That is like saying Bill Russell is better than Michael Jordan because he won 11 championships. Russell won 8 of those only having to play 2 series. Jordan had to play 4 series to win his. If you look at stats and film, Jordan was clearly better.

[coltsorioles]

20 hours ago, NFLUp said:

Once again, only Colt fans think Peyton is the GOAT.

He was never referred to as the GOAT during his career or afterwards by anyone.

Brady is universally referred to as the GOAT by media, many NFL players themselves, and most non-Colt NFL fans.

 

Not sure why Colt fans can’t simply accept this.  This is the most obvious case of denial that I’ve seen in a long time.

Peyton Manning was referred to the GOAT when he retired much more than Brady was at the time.  Also name 1  rb, wr, te that left the Colts / broncos that had better stats after they left. Tight ends alone collard,  dilger, Dallas Clark, Julius Thomas, after they did not have Peyton anymore became common players.  Edge,  addai , commons.  The only player that did good was faulk, and had he stayed would put up similar numbers ( terrible trade)  could have drafted champ Bailey ( different discussion).   

[NFLUp]

1 hour ago, coltsorioles said:

Peyton Manning was referred to the GOAT when he retired much more than Brady was at the time.  Also name 1  rb, wr, te that left the Colts / broncos that had better stats after they left. Tight ends alone collard,  dilger, Dallas Clark, Julius Thomas, after they did not have Peyton anymore became common players.  Edge,  addai , commons.  The only player that did good was faulk, and had he stayed would put up similar numbers ( terrible trade)  could have drafted champ Bailey ( different discussion).   

Yeah, none of this is remotely true.

Show me NFL announcers calling Peyton the GOAT while he was still playing.

its everywhere with Brady.  NFL players still today are talking about playing for the GOAT (Brady).

You are making things up regarding Peyton.
 

And your second argument?  Same for Brady, correct?  Deion Branch?  Givens?  Patten?  Even Welker and Amendola?  Hogan?

 

[coltsorioles]

Early on Brady was a good qb not great. Adam Vinietari vs Mike vanderjact. Vinietari made every clutch kick vanderjact misses every clutch kick.  Brady fumbled the game vs the raiders, then gets hurt in the first half half vs Pitt. Throws for 147 vs rams gets mvp 3-0 in playoffs when should be 0-1. Football is a team game. It brady was the Colts qb they would never have won. Peyton would have taken any team to the playoffs.   Look at a guy like Terry Bradshaw. Put him on any other team they are below average, then put a guy from that era on the Steelers they still win 4 if not more. Bert Jones, Dan fouts, Archie manning win probably 6 with Pittsburgh.   Brady was in the perfect situation with the best coach ever. And remember Brady cheated.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 3/30/2020 at 6:36 AM, Valpo2004 said:

Marino

 

The stats he put up where so far ahead of his contemporaries.

But.....but he has no rings.  Stupidest argument ever. The best pure qb to ever play the game is Marino. The qb I would start a franchise with is Manning

[Moosejawcolt]

I honestly think the whole GOAT argument us absolutely stupid.  Why is it with football, we have to have a GOAT at every position?  It is the most team orientated sport in the world, yet we want to annoit the suppossed greatest individual at every position.

[Valpo2004]

12 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I honestly think the whole GOAT argument us absolutely stupid.  Why is it with football, we have to have a GOAT at every position?  It is the most team orientated sport in the world, yet we want to annoit the suppossed greatest individual at every position.

 

It's fair to annoint a greatest at every position, but where you and I agree is that it's unfair to measure them by championships won.  And that includes QB.  

[Moosejawcolt]

12 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

It's fair to annoint a greatest at every position, but where you and I agree is that it's unfair to measure them by championships won.  And that includes QB.  

U cannot say who is the best ever at their position.  I don't think that there has been one player at his position that is so far above his past and/or  present peers.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U cannot say who is the best ever at their position.  I don't think that there has been one player at his position that is so far above his past and/or  present peers.

I don't know, Jerry Rice has an argument regarding position. 

[Moosejawcolt]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't know, Jerry Rice has an argument regarding position. 

If u ask me who is the greatest football player I have seen? It is Bo Jackson hands down

[Smoke317]

On 4/3/2020 at 2:32 AM, ReMeDy said:

If Tom Brady can play well with Tampa Bay, I'll eat crow and say the Patriots success was impacted by Brady more than I thought.

 

I think he's going to be in for a rude awakening in Tampa, eat several vicious hits, and wonder to himself how Manning managed to win the Colts a Superbowl with our old crappy o-line. Our Colts o-line rarely gave Manning time to throw, and our run game was abysmal, yet Manning still found ways to win games.

How can you say that and call yourself a Colts fan?  Run game abysmal?  Edge led the league in rushing twice.  And it was the running game & defense that helped Peyton win the big one here in Indy.  Not Peyton putting up Star Wars numbers and ripping through the playoffs like we all hoped & figured he would.  

[Smoke317]

On 4/15/2020 at 6:19 PM, NFLUp said:

Yeah, none of this is remotely true.

Show me NFL announcers calling Peyton the GOAT while he was still playing.

its everywhere with Brady.  NFL players still today are talking about playing for the GOAT (Brady).

You are making things up regarding Peyton.
 

And your second argument?  Same for Brady, correct?  Deion Branch?  Givens?  Patten?  Even Welker and Amendola?  Hogan?

 

Some of you Peyton lovers are ridiculous. I love Peyton too but for you to sit up here & suggest that Peyton made Edge great & without Peyton Edge would be common is foolish.  Go back & look at Peyton’s numbers his rookie year.  He was a turnover machine & led us to a 3-13 record. Not knocking him but those are facts. And that was with Faulk.  
 

Now, go to his 2nd season.  He still wasn’t the MVP Peyton Manning that dominated the league yet.  But we went 13-3.  You wanna know why?  It wasn’t because Peyton made Edge better it was because Edge made the game easier for Peyton by leading the league in rushing.  
 

Edge allowed the game to slow down for Peyton and he didn’t have to throw up as many prayer balls rather than get pounded into the dirt.  He had a new best friend in Edge.  And do I even have to mention Marv and how he helped Peyton’s development?  Peyton is a smart dude.  Why do you think he wanted to practice so much with Marvin?  
 

Because he ALREADY knew he was the greatest receiver he had ever played with was a straight BEAST.  He was gonna attach his horse to that saddle and ride until he couldn’t anymore. 88 & 32 played big roles in helping Peyton become the GOAT or one of the GOATS.  I bet you’ll never hear him call 88 or 32 common. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

If u ask me who is the greatest football player I have seen? It is Bo Jackson hands down

Bo was a beast, I loved Bo but he didn't play long enough to be considered the GOAT RB IMO. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

49 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Some of you Peyton lovers are ridiculous. I love Peyton too but for you to sit up here & suggest that Peyton made Edge great & without Peyton Edge would be common is foolish.  Go back & look at Peyton’s numbers his rookie year.  He was a turnover machine & led us to a 3-13 record. Not knocking him but those are facts. And that was with Faulk.  
 

Now, go to his 2nd season.  He still wasn’t the MVP Peyton Manning that dominated the league yet.  But we went 13-3.  You wanna know why?  It wasn’t because Peyton made Edge better it was because Edge made the game easier for Peyton by leading the league in rushing.  
 

Edge allowed the game to slow down for Peyton and he didn’t have to throw up as many prayer balls rather than get pounded into the dirt.  He had a new best friend in Edge.  And do I even have to mention Marv and how he helped Peyton’s development?  Peyton is a smart dude.  Why do you think he wanted to practice so much with Marvin?  
 

Because he ALREADY knew he was the greatest receiver he had ever played with was a straight BEAST.  He was gonna attach his horse to that saddle and ride until he couldn’t anymore. 88 & 32 played big roles in helping Peyton become the GOAT or one of the GOATS.  I bet you’ll never hear him call 88 or 32 common. 

Reggie was pretty special as well. If I was starting a franchise I still would take Peyton over anyone. Brady and Montana won more SB's so winning wise they accomplished more, Bradshaw did as well but Peyton won more MVP's than anyone in history. Peyton could carry teams almost by himself in a sport that is a true team sport.

[Valpo2004]

6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U cannot say who is the best ever at their position.  I don't think that there has been one player at his position that is so far above his past and/or  present peers.

 

In my opinion Marino was which is why I consider him the GOAT.

 

Go look at Marino's numbers and than look at the numbers of great QB's who played at the same time.  Marino threw for 5000 yards in 1984.  Elway a great QB in his own right never even threw for 4000 yards in a single season, much less 5000.  You will find it similar with other QBs of that era.

 

But of course the whole idea of this is for fun.

[r a y s k i]

For me there is a difference between greatest and best, greatest meaning the one being the most successful under pressure and delivering on the big stage.(like the MJ vs Lebron debate)

Unfortunately, that's not Peyton for me as much as he was a childhood hero of mine. 

 

Greatest I'd have to say Montana or Brady.

Best, I'm happy to go w Peyton there. 

 

Favourite player for me is still Luck. 

[Smoke317]

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Reggie was pretty special as well. If I was starting a franchise I still would take Peyton over anyone. Brady and Montana won more SB's so winning wise they accomplished more, Bradshaw did as well but Peyton won more MVP's than anyone in history. Peyton could carry teams almost by himself in a sport that is a true team sport.

Reggie was very special. But in some ways I think Peyton & Marv both had great influence on his development & growth.  Now, I’m definitely not saying Reggie would have been common without those 2, but I think they played a much bigger role in his growth than vice versa. Whereas, Marv & Edge helped Peyton more early in his career. 
 

I wasn’t the biggest college football fan back then but I swear Peyton & Tennessee were on tv every week.  So I started to watch him during his junior & senior seasons.  He quickly became my favorite college football player.  Hurt me when he kept losing to the Gators.  Probably why I have never liked them. Then to somehow have him drafted by my home team...  I honestly thought the football gods brought him here because I was his biggest fan.  
 

There was never any competition between him & Leaf with me. I had already seen years worth of him playing at Tennessee.  Easy pick.  I knew he was gonna be great.  I didn’t know how great though.  We Colts fans were blessed to watch a master technician at work.  Imagine Peyton coming out now with even more wide open offenses than when he started?  I think he’d be pushing Mahomes as the best QB in the game.  55 TD’s after neck surgery.  I think he’d have tried for 60. 

[Moosejawcolt]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Bo was a beast, I loved Bo but he didn't play long enough to be considered the GOAT RB IMO. 

I agree. He should be in the hall of fame

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

In my opinion Marino was which is why I consider him the GOAT.

 

Go look at Marino's numbers and than look at the numbers of great QB's who played at the same time.  Marino threw for 5000 yards in 1984.  Elway a great QB in his own right never even threw for 4000 yards in a single season, much less 5000.  You will find it similar with other QBs of that era.

 

But of course the whole idea of this is for fun.

I agree with u.  In terms of how the qb is defined, he was the best pure passer ever. I just dont agree with the GOAT argument  .  Think u can take bout 7 qbs and call them the greatest.

[NFLUp]

15 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

If u ask me who is the greatest football player I have seen? It is Bo Jackson hands down

Jim Brown was far more impressive.  Different times of course.

[NFLUp]

A factor that so many forget (or choose

to ignore) is that Peyton was ALWAYS given first round weapons.

The Patriots never drafted first round weapons for Brady.

TDs thrown to first round receivers:

Peyton = 293

Brady = 105.

 

so yeah, Brady did far more with far less.

[Moosejawcolt]

15 minutes ago, NFLUp said:

Jim Brown was far more impressive.  Different times of course.

I never saw jim brown.  There has not been a player...maybe a human.....with Bo's ability. I have only seen Jim Brown clips. Could u imagine what Bo would have done in Brown's era!?!?  230....powerful as hell and I believe he ran the 100 meters under 10.5. Crazy

[Moosejawcolt]

18 minutes ago, NFLUp said:

Jim Brown was far more impressive.  Different times of course.

I was right...10.39. I don't beleive anyone's tape was impressive as Bo's for how short his career was.

[18to87]

The last few posts in this thread seem to forget that Manning didn't always have healthy receivers in his final few years in Indy. He spent weeks at a time throwing to guys like Aaron Moorehead, Ben Utecht and Blair White, and Anthony Gonzalez was a massive bust. 

 

Then he went on to Denver with a shell of his former arm and earned a bunch of guys massive deals. Guys who were unable to replicate that success once he wasn't throwing them the ball.  

[BloodyChamp]

Favre. But I don’t really argue against Peyton or Johnny U. I respect Joe but etc etc things we’ve discussed many times.

 

I understand picking Marino also but I don’t think he’s the GOAT. He’s the Bigfoot. There was only 1. It was never official and it never will be but he is the Bigfoot. People who understand that will agree.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I never saw jim brown.  There has not been a player...maybe a human.....with Bo's ability. I have only seen Jim Brown clips. Could u imagine what Bo would have done in Brown's era!?!?  230....powerful as hell and I believe he ran the 100 meters under 10.5. Crazy

Bo was also clocked at running the 40 in 4.2 flat, that is insane.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Bo was also clocked at running the 40 in 4.2 flat, that is insane.

Yuppers.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

Favre. But I don’t really argue against Peyton or Johnny U. I respect Joe but etc etc things we’ve discussed many times.

 

I understand picking Marino also but I don’t think he’s the GOAT. He’s the Bigfoot. There was only 1. It was never official and it never will be but he is the Bigfoot. People who understand that will agree.

I think Favre is in the discussion no doubt regarding QB's. That is why at least to me these discussions are fun. So many different opinions. Favre is always one of the one's that stands out to me when I think of true greats like I do Brady, Montana, Peyton, Unitas, Elway, Marino, and Rodgers. Have to include Otto Graham in there as well. He dominated his era. Bradshaw doesn't really do it for me, I know he won 4 SB's but his stats were MEH. He was good but I don't think of GOAT when I think of him. The teams he played on I considered top notch though. 

[NFLUp]

On 4/28/2020 at 4:25 PM, 18to87 said:

The last few posts in this thread seem to forget that Manning didn't always have healthy receivers in his final few years in Indy. He spent weeks at a time throwing to guys like Aaron Moorehead, Ben Utecht and Blair White, and Anthony Gonzalez was a massive bust. 

 

Then he went on to Denver with a shell of his former arm and earned a bunch of guys massive deals. Guys who were unable to replicate that success once he wasn't throwing them the ball.  

Yet he had Wayne that entire time.

[18to87]

8 hours ago, NFLUp said:

Yet he had Wayne that entire time.

And Brady had the greatest TE of all time, Welker/Edelman, and the best coach of all time. 

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, 18to87 said:

And Brady had the greatest TE of all time, Welker/Edelman, and the best coach of all time. 

Not to mention he also had Randy Moss during the peak of his career. 

[FortheWin]

Brady at this point is recognized pretty much by everyone as the GOAT. His resume is pretty solid all around - wins, stats, clutch, etc.

 

My favorite player to watch was Michael Irvin. I loved the way he played and how he changed the receiver position.

[NFLUp]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:38 PM, crazycolt1 said:

Not to mention he also had Randy Moss during the peak of his career. 

At his peak?

 

Yeah, that’s not remotely true.  Moss was halfway through the back nine at that point.

 

Welker and Edelman achieved nothing before playing for Brady.  Edelman also took years to develop.  

[FortheWin]

4 minutes ago, NFLUp said:

At his peak?

 

Yeah, that’s not remotely true.  Moss was halfway through the back nine at that point.

 

Welker and Edelman achieved nothing before playing for Brady.  Edelman also took years to develop.  

Moss and Revis were basically the same guy. When they came to NE they had one good year left before falling off the cliff.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 5/9/2020 at 6:56 PM, FortheWin said:

Brady at this point is recognized pretty much by everyone as the GOAT. His resume is pretty solid all around - wins, stats, clutch, etc.

 

My favorite player to watch was Michael Irvin. I loved the way he played and how he changed the receiver position.

Irvin is arguably the 2nd best WR of all-time. People do not like to hear that because he partied a lot off the field but he was strong and the king of the 10 yard slant. He and Aikman were automatic on almost every 3rd down it seemed. Irvin was a stronger/bigger version of Reggie Wayne. Rice was the best but 2nd best is debatable between I would say Irvin, Moss, Marvin, and I will throw Hutson in for old school purposes.

 

Regarding QB's, Brady is the greatest winner with 6 SB wins so if someone wants to say he is the GOAT, I get it and fine with it. If I am starting a franchise from scratch though = an unproven coach and unproven players, I am taking Peyton. Peyton won 5 MVP's and could carry teams. Also if someone wanted to argue that Montana was the GOAT, I am fine with that as well. He had great stats if you go by the era he played in (they would still be considered good stats by today's standards), really only Marino had much better stats and Montana was 4-0 in SB's.