Stock Up, Stock Down - Kevin Bowen

[LockeDown]

2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Clark really is an enigma.  He does everything near perfect... he maintains an excellent base, moves really well, gets his hands and great position and he does it all very quickly and establishes position on the defender and then.... still cannot do anything to slow down the defender.

 

I think the one issue his once his hands touch a defender his feet stop moving.  I don't know, you watch him establish position on a defender and you think... my word that is perfect and then you watch the defender do whatever he wants and it just leaves you scratching your heading wondering how that just happened.

Like a QB with a long throwing motion. Hard to change bad habits

[CR91]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Dorsett is not my reason on not drafting a wr in the first round.    Other than the famous WR class of 2014,  almost all WRs drafted in the first round in 12, 13, 15,16 and17, are at best average..   if not below average,  if not outright busts.   The hit/miss ratio is terrible in first round WRs.   I’ve been writing about this for nearly a year.    I’d never base any thought on the success or failure of one player.   I’m not even basing anything on Grigson.   My view is based on league-wide trends.   The value isn’t there for first round WRs.

 

As for Slauson..   I like him and happy we signed him..   but the odds of getting three quality years from him are not great.   It’s possible but not likely.    I’ll be happy if we get one.   It’s a LONG season.   Things often look different in December than they do in August....

 

 

Ok I did take a long and yes it has been terrible, but the argument is still there that we need to help Hilton. Maybe not with a first round wr, but we need to take pressure off of him

[CR91]

14 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

Did not need further explanation.  I knew what you meant.

 

Slauson is a stop gap answer at guard.  At his age there is no chance of him signing a multi year deal after this year.  The chances of Ballard signing him to a one year deal in 2019 is very slim in my estimation.  They will address guard again in free agency or the draft or both in 2019.

 

 

Which can happen, but its not like Slauson is 35. All im saying is we can keep the line intact for a few years If Slauson and Smith perform

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Clark really is an enigma.  He does everything near perfect... he maintains an excellent base, moves really well, gets his hands and great position and he does it all very quickly and establishes position on the defender and then.... still cannot do anything to slow down the defender.

 

I think the one issue his once his hands touch a defender his feet stop moving.  I don't know, you watch him establish position on a defender and you think... my word that is perfect and then you watch the defender do whatever he wants and it just leaves you scratching your heading wondering how that just happened.

I don't know either...kind of a mystery. I will say that now more than ever I want my linemen to come from coaching staffs that I trust. Whether that is the Wisconsins, Notre Dames, Ohio States of the world or it can be from anywhere as long as they have been receiving excellent coaching from a staff I trust. There are habits and techniques that are very hard to break if you don't teach well from youth on up. You get a kid that may have all the measurables but has bad habits or hasn't been coached or received polishing then I think you are playing with fire. Not saying this is the case but I've not known Texas Tech to be known for their linemen. Typically they have a spread offense and maybe block for a couple seconds at best because the ball is out so quick. Just winning at the point of attack is great but it isn't enough...you have to sustain in the NFL for 5 and 7 step drops and slow developing counters etc....I just don't think the kid was ever taught to finish a play....and now...its that much more difficult to get him to do it consistently.

[Defjamz26]

Wow on Jordan Wilkins. From unknown to possibly seeing a majority of the snaps once the season starts. Good for him. Hines has been a disappointment it seems.

[dgambill]

In an ideal world I'd prefer to slide Smith to guard and draft our future LT replacement. If that means he plays a year at RT or he starts right away and we slide Anthony over to RT fine by me. I prefer players to play their natural positions because they are likely to perform their best there. If Smith can be a great guard but is just an avg tackle then I would much rather move him to guard and find a good tackle. It is out of necessity right now but I think it is in everyone's best interest to play him at his best position. Just like when people wanted to move Kelly to guard when we had problems. Sure you plug a hole but in the long run your whole line is weaker.

[Coffeedrinker]

13 minutes ago, dgambill said:

In an ideal world I'd prefer to slide Smith to guard and draft our future LT replacement. If that means he plays a year at RT or he starts right away and we slide Anthony over to RT fine by me. I prefer players to play their natural positions because they are likely to perform their best there. If Smith can be a great guard but is just an avg tackle then I would much rather move him to guard and find a good tackle. It is out of necessity right now but I think it is in everyone's best interest to play him at his best position. Just like when people wanted to move Kelly to guard when we had problems. Sure you plug a hole but in the long run your whole line is weaker.

You talk about players playing their natural positions but talk about AC moving to RT.  he's played LT for over 12 years now, how is RT is natural position?

[LockeDown]

Let’s say guard is Smiths natural position but he happens to be our best RT.  What do you do?

[Coffeedrinker]

2 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Let’s say guard is Smiths natural position but he happens to be our best RT.  What do you do?

It depends on how much better he is than the next RT.  If he is a a good RT and a great guard and the next best RT is average then you play him at guard.  If the next RT is below average and the RG is average or good then you play him at tackle.  So on and so forth.

[gspdx]

I'm not going to worry about measurables (32.25" arms).  I'll wait and see how he performs.  I think sometimes we get too hung up on some physical attribute (Russell Wilson is too short for example) rather than letting the person see what they can do.

 

Plenty of tackles get in trouble with speed rushers even if they have the long arms.  

[LockeDown]

6 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

It depends on how much better he is than the next RT.  If he is a a good RT and a great guard and the next best RT is average then you play him at guard.  If the next RT is below average and the RG is average or good then you play him at tackle.  So on and so forth.

Makes sense.  I think Slauson brings such leadership and attitude (assuming he is average), I would rather keep him on the field and play Smith at RT.  If the chemistry is good that is.  

[dgambill]

11 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

You talk about players playing their natural positions but talk about AC moving to RT.  he's played LT for over 12 years now, how is RT is natural position?

I’m assuming Anthony is going to lose a step eventually..and I don’t see a huge leap from left to RT and feel it would be a pretty natural transition for an aging player. Like I said a couple years. I think Anthony can be a good tackle for awhile longer but if he could stay at that high level if we transition him to the right side as he slows down. If that is not a possibility then we’ll i guess you move on. 

[Coffeedrinker]

8 hours ago, dgambill said:

I’m assuming Anthony is going to lose a step eventually..and I don’t see a huge leap from left to RT and feel it would be a pretty natural transition for an aging player. Like I said a couple years. I think Anthony can be a good tackle for awhile longer but if he could stay at that high level if we transition him to the right side as he slows down. If that is not a possibility then we’ll i guess you move on. 

Makes sense. I disagree because I think in today's NFL there is no difference in the skills needed from RT to LT.  But your reasoning makes sense if you don't think the same as I do.

[richard pallo]

One player that has me concerned is Basham.  Recent reports are now saying he is falling down the depth chart and the DC seems disappointed in his progress.  A 3rd. Rd. pick from a small school that looks like a major reach at this point.  Our 4th. rounder, Banner, is already gone and our 2nd. rounder Wilson continues to struggle.  Hopefully Hooker comes back so we can have at least one hit out of the 1st. four from last year.  Hopefully Ballard has better luck with our current class.  I'm all for building through the draft but these results from last year point to hard it is.  That's why I wouldn't be upset if we traded a few picks to get a young impact player that could really help lay the foundation of our defense for years to come.  I am all for having a plan in place but good GM's have to be ready to make exceptions when an unexpected opportunity presents itself.  Just my opinion and I know it's an unpopular one.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

A good RT is (almost) as important as the LT.  In 2016, a teams right tackle had to go up against this list-

 

J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Justin Houston, Joey Bosa, Vic Beasley, Cameron Wake, Cliff Avril, Markus Golden, Ryan Kerrigan, Carlos Dunlap, Cameron Jordan, Jason Pierre-Paul and Danielle Hunter.

 

Some of these guys play the Joker too (move them around to take advantage of mismatches)

 

A team needs a tight knit group with solid play and good communication across the whole O line.

[Two_pound]

If Clark or Howard are on the field in week one we are in trouble. I doubt if either one is on the team. Costanzo, Nelson, Kelly, Slauson, Haeg-starters. Key reserves, Goode , Bond and Smith

[richard pallo]

5 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

If Clark or Howard are on the field in week one we are in trouble. I doubt if either one is on the team. Costanzo, Nelson, Kelly, Slauson, Haeg-starters. Key reserves, Goode , Bond and Smith

I think the only way Haag starts is if Good is not healthy.  I can see Howard ahead of Haag. 

[Hoose]

On 8/16/2018 at 6:09 PM, gspdx said:

I'm not going to worry about measurables (32.25" arms).  I'll wait and see how he performs.  I think sometimes we get too hung up on some physical attribute (Russell Wilson is too short for example) rather than letting the person see what they can do.

 

Plenty of tackles get in trouble with speed rushers even if they have the long arms.  

Really well said. Let's admit it: Drew Brees on paper is not going to be a quality QB in the NFL. Too short. Period. Some athletes transcend the stereotype. Time will tell if Smith is one of those guys and can defy the "rules" about tackles in the NFL. 

[Rally5]

On 8/15/2018 at 3:02 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

I’m not in the Smith is a tackle camp.  

 

32 and a 1/4 inch arms won’t work in the long run.    This feels like a short term fix (this year) but perhaps not a long term one.

 

But I believe Smith did play some tackle at Auburn.   Going into his senior year I saw one story that listed him at tackle.  I just haven’t found a breakdown if how many games at guard and how many at tackle.  

 

I’ll keep looking.

 

2

I'll go out on a limb and say if Howard plays like he has to date, he's not making this team.  Next, Good can't stay on the field, he averages half a season.  Clark doesn't have the goods, I don't know why anyone advocates for that guy.  The one guy who plays every game, knows his assignments and competes at the position is Haeg, I think he will be the guy.  Ideal? No. If Smith gets a starting nod over Haeg I would be impressed.  More likely to me, is Smith backfills Haeg's role as next man up.  Now if Good gets healthy and can play, maybe, but the injury clock ticks on that guy and then we're right back to Haeg.  Who starts at LT Monday will tell us a lot about who our RT will be IMO. PS. Does Haeg have short arms?

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Rally5 said:

I'll go out on a limb and say if Howard plays like he has to date, he's not making this team.  Next, Good can't stay on the field, he averages half a season.  Clark doesn't have the goods, I don't know why anyone advocates for that guy.  The one guy who plays every game, knows his assignments and competes at the position is Haeg, I think he will be the guy.  Ideal? No. If Smith gets a starting nod over Haeg I would be impressed.  More likely to me, is Smith backfills Haeg's role as next man up.  Now if Good gets healthy and can play, maybe, but the injury clock ticks on that guy and then we're right back to Haeg.  Who starts at LT Monday will tell us a lot about who our RT will be IMO. PS. Does Haeg have short arms?

 

Mom not aware that Haeg has short arms.    But while the guy competes I don’t think he wins enough to be a starter.

 

I think it’s going to be Smith.  I just suspectvthat unless he does great, the move to tackle will last for a year.

 

Then next season, they’ll slide him back inside and probably sign some free agent RT to hold that position,

 

Just a hunch.   Think we’ll have a better feel for Smith at RT after Monday night and game 3 of the preseason.