Bill Polian Said

[Fisticuffs111]

53 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Don’t the Bucs need major corner and safety help? I know corner for sure. They already have Kwon Alexander and Lavonte David, why would they take Smith?

Obviously not the end all be all but McShay says that Derwin James to the Bucs is "the worst kept secret of the draft." And the Bucs have apparently had some of the most predictable picks in recent years according to their fans (Winston, Mike Evans, VH3). They seem to all think it's either Nelson or a DB.

They could be wrong though, who knows.

[Fisticuffs111]

At the same time, the Dolphins are rumored to be trying to trade up for a LBer (weird but possible). And I could see an out of left field trade with the Bucs, which would potentially screw us over if we trade behind them.

[DougDew]

55 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

they never get drafted in the top ten like ever.  polians best will was a 6th round pick 

He basically criticized Wells for picking a G over a WILL, when they are of equal talent at their respective positions.  Smith is as good of a WILL as Nelson is a G.

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Obviously not the end all be all but McShay says that Derwin James to the Bucs is "the worst kept secret of the draft." And the Bucs have apparently had some of the most predictable picks in recent years according to their fans (Winston, Mike Evans, VH3). They seem to all think it's either Nelson or a DB.

They could be wrong though, who knows.

Even for the Colts, I'd take James over Nelson.  The 4-3 needs another Bob Sanders type, and neither Geathers or Hooker is it.  Not that James is Sanders, but he's a lot closer to him than what we have.

[aaron11]

Just now, DougDew said:

He basically criticized Wells for picking a G over a WILL, when they are of equal talent at their respective positions.  Smith is as good of a WILL as Nelson is a G.

well they cant please everyone in the draft.  i have nelson over smith, while neither one of those positions go in the top 10 very often

 

we might struggle at LB if we dont take one early, but protecting the QB is even more important to me now.  people dont seem to care much about the running game around here, but the eagles were third in rushing last year.  that worked out pretty well for them, the jags were #1

 

 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

well they cant please everyone in the draft.  i have nelson over smith, while neither one of those positions go in the top 10 very often

 

we might struggle at LB if we dont take one early, but protecting the QB is even more important to me now.  people dont seem to care much about the running game around here, but the eagles were third in rushing last year.  that worked out pretty well for them, the jags were #1

 

 

Yeah, but 1 good G isn't going to help protect Luck more than scheme change and Luck learning to throw the ball quicker.   

 

I don't know where the Eagles linemen were drafted, but that offense was pretty quick-paced, a leftover from Chip Kelly I guess.

[DaColts85]

22 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, but 1 good G isn't going to help protect Luck more than scheme change and Luck learning to throw the ball quicker.   

 

I don't know where the Eagles linemen were drafted, but that offense was pretty quick-paced, a leftover from Chip Kelly I guess.

I do not know what you mean by the bolded?  Chip only drafted 1 worth while linemen while in Philly and that was Lane Johnson.  Other than that the offense is not a leftover from Kelly.  The coaching staff came in and made changes plus put in their own scheme.  This is a similar scheme I would expect for us under our staff. 

 

The first part I would say is true but not true.  A quicker pace to the offense will help but you still need talent on the o-line.  Getting a solid G can drastically help both Kelly and AC on the left side (assuming they play LG).  You get better pockets and running lanes.  With us going to a zone scheme, and hopefully making it WAY simplier than previous years we need guys with quick feet.

[aaron11]

24 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, but 1 good G isn't going to help protect Luck more than scheme change and Luck learning to throw the ball quicker.   

 

I don't know where the Eagles linemen were drafted, but that offense was pretty quick-paced, a leftover from Chip Kelly I guess.

you think offense is just all about scheme.  i think more talent on the line is needed and nelson could be that guy.  i dont agree that he wont have much impact

 

one thing we could do to maximize his value is find a running back that goes between the tackles.  

 

the eagles oline were drafted all over the map.  one was the fourth overall pick, one was undrafted and the rest were in the middle rounds 

[Finball]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlitz said:

I pretty much get you, but I know they have Gerald McCoy inside. They would need a DE then, would they not? Or do they play 3-4 fronts?

 

4-3 base. And yes, they do need DE. They have JPP and Noah Spence but both of those guys have their own issues.

[Superman]

Bill Polian says a lot of things these days, doesn't he?

 

I don't think WILL is the second most important position on the defense, I think MIKE is. And I think good safety play is third. 

 

But I do agree that WILL is being undervalued here lately, I think it's mostly just an attempt to marginalize Roquan Smith and promote Tremaine Edmunds. 

[MTC]

Roquan will definitely be the pick. Ballard mentioned the importance of Briggs and Urlacher, both 'home grown' Bears, when worked in Chicago. 

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

Bill Polian says a lot of things these days, doesn't he?

 

I don't think WILL is the second most important position on the defense, I think MIKE is. And I think good safety play is third. 

 

But I do agree that WILL is being undervalued here lately, I think it's mostly just an attempt to marginalize Roquan Smith and promote Tremaine Edmunds. 

What's your opinion on either and who would you prefer the Colts draft? 

[Finball]

31 minutes ago, Superman said:

Bill Polian says a lot of things these days, doesn't he?

 

I don't think WILL is the second most important position on the defense, I think MIKE is. And I think good safety play is third. 

 

But I do agree that WILL is being undervalued here lately, I think it's mostly just an attempt to marginalize Roquan Smith and promote Tremaine Edmunds. 

 

I personally slide with the NFL executives opinion here and put interior defensive line as the second most important.. Not far off from the edge. Maybe even more important.

[DougDew]

55 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I do not know what you mean by the bolded?  Chip only drafted 1 worth while linemen while in Philly and that was Lane Johnson.  Other than that the offense is not a leftover from Kelly.  The coaching staff came in and made changes plus put in their own scheme.  This is a similar scheme I would expect for us under our staff. 

 

The first part I would say is true but not true.  A quicker pace to the offense will help but you still need talent on the o-line.  Getting a solid G can drastically help both Kelly and AC on the left side (assuming they play LG).  You get better pockets and running lanes.  With us going to a zone scheme, and hopefully making it WAY simplier than previous years we need guys with quick feet.

The previous poster was saying that we need an elite G to protect Luck.  I was merely pointing out that Philly's up tempo offense didn't need an elite G to protect Foles.  

 

Its no coincidence that after Kelly left, the offense remained one of the quicker paced in the NFL.  Not that its the same offense, but I think you have to give Kelly credit for influencing the GM or Pederson in what they wanted to run considering the success the O had with minimal superstars.  Also that many of the players were built for that O because of Kelly's roster upheaval. 

 

 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

I personally slide with the NFL executives opinion here and put interior defensive line as the second most important.. Not far off from the edge. Maybe even more important.

 

I agree with that, interior DL is very important. I'd probably put it on par with the MIKE, just because he runs the defense, but yes, good inside line play is critical and makes things easier on the backers across the board. Good catch.

 

As for Polian, he's the one who struggled to find good interior linemen. I'm not sure how important he considers them to be.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

What's your opinion on either and who would you prefer the Colts draft? 

But he's said WILL is a very important position since his radio days.  I don't know if its always been WILL over MIKE, but he has always been consistent about WILL being very important.

 

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

What's your opinion on either and who would you prefer the Colts draft? 

 

I put Smith over Edmunds. I'm playing it safe, Edmunds is very raw and I have a lot of questions about his projection. I think Smith is a Pro Bowl talent who will translate very well to the NFL, I think he can play WILL and MIKE in this defense, and I think his issues taking on blocks are a minor nuisance at best. I think he compares to Luke Kuechly.

[DougDew]

54 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

you think offense is just all about scheme.  i think more talent on the line is needed and nelson could be that guy.  i dont agree that he wont have much impact

 

one thing we could do to maximize his value is find a running back that goes between the tackles.  

 

the eagles oline were drafted all over the map.  one was the fourth overall pick, one was undrafted and the rest were in the middle rounds 

Yes, the LT was the elite pick...as is the case in the NFL.  Pederson's team did not require an elite G.

 

We're not running Frank Gore to find a crease up the middle then throwing it on third down.  We're moving past that.  

 

We signed Ebron, and now have three mobile TEs, including the tall guy from KC. That says something.  

 

A moblie Joe Haeg might be a better fit than Nelson ....JK.

 

I'm not here to argue, I'm just 100% confident that the Colts won't be selecting Nelson tomorrow.  If he's on the board, they will pick someone else not named Chubb or Barkley or will trade out.

[Finball]

28 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, the LT was the elite pick...as is the case in the NFL.  Pederson's team did not require an elite G.

 

 

LT was actually 5th rounder in '16. RT was #4 overall pick in 2013.

 

Brandon Brooks may not be elite RG (as in top 5) but he's not far off from that.

[stitches]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I put Smith over Edmunds. I'm playing it safe, Edmunds is very raw and I have a lot of questions about his projection. I think Smith is a Pro Bowl talent who will translate very well to the NFL, I think he can play WILL and MIKE in this defense, and I think his issues taking on blocks are a minor nuisance at best. I think he compares to Luke Kuechly.

Thanks. I disagree with you about his problem with taking on blocks being a minor nuisance... and especially with our current personnel on the inside of the defensive line and the rest of the linebackers. For what it's worth I think we should draft with an eye to the future rather than what we don't have right now, this second so if we believe Ballard will be able to get better personnel to keep Roquan clean(er) of blocks IMO he should definitely be in consideration. 

 

I absolutely love Roquan. I've loved him since the very start of this last college football year. I started watching pretty much every game of Georgia because of how fun to watch he was. His instincts and mental processing are just off the charts. I don't think I've seen anything like this anytime recently. I don't think even Reuben Foster was this fast and accurate processing what's happening in the backfield and being step ahead in pursuing runs to the outside on trick plays, reverses, or even plain old bouncing outside. I also love his tackling ability. He just doesn't miss tackles. He squares them up and makes what seems like every single tackle. At some point toward the end of the year I listened to a PFF podcast that had some unbelievable stat about his tackling - he had missed zero tackles on run plays and only 2 on pass plays in something like 500 snaps. I think he missed several more in the playoffs but still, his ability to process, make quick decision to pursue and then finish the play sideline to sideline are amazing. 

 

I'm still not sure he will be able to play mike, but enough people I respect seem to think he can, so I might have to just trust their evaluation rather than my worries and if we draft him I will be very happy with the selection. In a weird way I think he's actually one of the safest players in the draft. I would probably put him right next to Nelson when it comes to safe projection. At worst he will probably be a very good will linebacker. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Thanks. I disagree with you about his problem with taking on blocks being a minor nuisance... and especially with our current personnel on the inside of the defensive line and the rest of the linebackers. For what it's worth I think we should draft with an eye to the future rather than what we don't have right now, this second so if we believe Ballard will be able to get better personnel to keep Roquan clean(er) of blocks IMO he should definitely be in consideration. 

 

I absolutely love Roquan. I've loved him since the very start of this last college football year. I started watching pretty much every game of Georgia because of how fun to watch he was. His instincts and mental processing are just off the charts. I don't think I've seen anything like this anytime recently. I don't think even Reuben Foster was this fast and accurate processing what's happening in the backfield and being step ahead in pursuing runs to the outside on trick plays, reverses, or even plain old bouncing outside. I also love his tackling ability. He just doesn't miss tackles. He squares them up and makes what seems like every single tackle. At some point toward the end of the year I listened to a PFF podcast that had some unbelievable stat about his tackling - he had missed zero tackles on run plays and only 2 on pass plays in something like 500 snaps. I think he missed several more in the playoffs but still, his ability to process, make quick decision to pursue and then finish the play sideline to sideline are amazing. 

 

I'm still not sure he will be able to play mike, but enough people I respect seem to think he can, so I might have to just trust their evaluation rather than my worries and if we draft him I will be very happy with the selection. In a weird way I think he's actually one of the safest players in the draft. I would probably put him right next to Nelson when it comes to safe projection. At worst he will probably be a very good will linebacker. 

 

Two things about his taking on blocks, first, I do expect the Colts to build up the front in a way where the off ball backers aren't consistently taking on interior blockers. I also don't think too many teams are using fullbacks anymore. So I don't think our backers are going to be going face up with big blockers in the run game all that often.

 

Second, like you said, Smith processes so quickly and gets into position so well, plus he's good at avoiding blockers when he sees them (another prospect who was excellent at this, Stephone Anthony). He's not going to be a stack and shed guy, he's going to either beat a blocker to the spot or go around the blocker, and I'm fine with that on the weakside. It's a little more problematic in the middle.

 

And of course, his coverage, his range, instincts, tackling, etc. All the things I want in an off ball linebacker, especially in a defense that will presumably be predicated on penetration up front and speed at the second level. Smith would be great in our defense, IMO, from Day 1. And once the front is playing well -- and I think it will be stout against the run right away, to be honest -- he'll be able to fly around and make plays in both phases. 

 

One more thing, he's a lightning quick closer when he blitzes. Send him from the weakside or delayed up the middle, and the QB is a sitting duck. 

[shasta519]

52 minutes ago, Superman said:

Bill Polian says a lot of things these days, doesn't he?

 

I don't think WILL is the second most important position on the defense, I think MIKE is. And I think good safety play is third. 

 

But I do agree that WILL is being undervalued here lately, I think it's mostly just an attempt to marginalize Roquan Smith and promote Tremaine Edmunds. 

 

Agree. Safety play is key...especially since I envision the Colts running a lot more big nickel. But it's not just the Colts...I think we are seeing a shift in the NFL about how the S position is valued. 

 

MIKE is definitely more important than WILL. If you have a MIKE that can cover...why would you ever need a WILL to play MIKE in a subpackage? It's not like Kuechly or Wagner are leaving the field. 

 

Besides, while I think Smith is a great player, I think Fred Warner could be a much better value...and brings much of what Smith can do. And you can probably get him in the 3rd-4th round. You aren't finding a comparable player to Edmunds then.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Finball said:

 

I personally slide with the NFL executives opinion here and put interior defensive line as the second most important.. Not far off from the edge. Maybe even more important.

 

Next year is huge for DL talent. I can't stop watching Rashan Gary film. That dude is going to be amazing...takes great angles and has amazing closing speed. If he adds a few pounds and kicks inside, he will be unblockable. 

 

There's possibly 3-4 interior DL plays who could be top 10 picks next year. So I think I prefer the most important positions on the defense to be what is strong in that given draft.

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Agree. Safety play is key...especially since I envision the Colts running a lot more big nickel. But it's not just the Colts...I think we are seeing a shift in the NFL about how the S position is valued. 

 

MIKE is definitely more important than WILL. If you have a MIKE that can cover...why would you ever need a WILL to play MIKE in a subpackage? It's not like Kuechly or Wagner are leaving the field. 

 

Besides, while I think Smith is a great player, I think Fred Warner could be a much better value...and brings much of what Smith can do. And you can probably get him in the 3rd-4th round. You aren't finding a comparable player to Edmunds then.

 

I'm a Fred Warner fan. Smith >>> Warner, IMO. 

 

And while there's probably no one else in the draft with Edmunds blend of size, athleticism and high ceiling, my concerns are strictly about the way he plays football. The traits are obvious.

[Fisticuffs111]

59 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I put Smith over Edmunds. I'm playing it safe, Edmunds is very raw and I have a lot of questions about his projection. I think Smith is a Pro Bowl talent who will translate very well to the NFL, I think he can play WILL and MIKE in this defense, and I think his issues taking on blocks are a minor nuisance at best. I think he compares to Luke Kuechly.

Yeah, sometimes that's seen as a negative but I think our 1st pick is way too important to take a risk. I don't think we can afford to miss on this pick. Obviously some don't see Edmunds as a risk, and that's fine, but then that's where the debate comes in I guess.

[jet1968]

1. Not protecting the quarterback ended up costing Polian his job

2. The Colts run defense in his days here were terrible.

There is so many holes to fill with the Colts that I think they need to either trade out of # 6 or just take the most dynamic player that is there.

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm a Fred Warner fan. Smith >>> Warner, IMO. 

 

And while there's probably no one else in the draft with Edmunds blend of size, athleticism and high ceiling, my concerns are strictly about the way he plays football. The traits are obvious.

Have you seen Leighton Vander Esch? He has very similar blend of physical profile and athletic traits as Edmunds: 

 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/leighton-vander-esch

[shasta519]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm a Fred Warner fan. Smith >>> Warner, IMO. 

 

And while there's probably no one else in the draft with Edmunds blend of size, athleticism and high ceiling, my concerns are strictly about the way he plays football. The traits are obvious.

 

I think LVE is somewhat similar. Honestly, if the Colts passed on Edmunds, I would be fine with it...if they got LVE. I just  want one of those two because I think they are unique players in this draft.  

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

Have you seen Leighton Vander Esch? He has very similar blend of physical profile and athletic traits as Edmunds: 

 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/leighton-vander-esch

 

I didn't realize how similar their webs are. Edmunds ran a little faster, Vander Esch had a better broad jump... they're pretty close otherwise.

 

And I like Vander Esch, definitely. I watched him after the Combine, I think. But I figure he's a first rounder, or maybe top of the second at worst. 

[DougDew]

55 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Agree. Safety play is key...especially since I envision the Colts running a lot more big nickel. But it's not just the Colts...I think we are seeing a shift in the NFL about how the S position is valued. 

 

MIKE is definitely more important than WILL. If you have a MIKE that can cover...why would you ever need a WILL to play MIKE in a subpackage? It's not like Kuechly or Wagner are leaving the field. 

 

I'll repeat what Polian has said and what I remember him saying the years he was here about the generally different roles of the LBs in the Tampa 2.  I'm in no position to argue him, I simply remember what he said.

 

WILL is the LB designed to make the tackles.  MIKE drops back and covers the middle.  This is why Gary Brackett was preferred over Jeff Herrod types, who was more of the older school run stopping MIKE.  Rob Morris the SAM, was the funneler. If you were around the forum back then, that word was sarcasm. 

 

Polian could get his LBs in the second and third rounds back then, since a lot of the NFL was still looking for thumpers.  The NFL has changed and now values more active LBs that good Tampa WILLS and MIKES will probably have to be drafted higher than years past.

 

Tampa Bay had Derrick Brooks and then Lavonte David as WILLS.  Bears had Lance Briggs, and yes, Urlacher.  Those were good T2 defenses.  The Colts defenses were not good examples of T2 defenses because they were built around Freeney and the edge pass rush because of Manning.

 

Tampa had Sapp, then McCoy.  Bears had Tommy Harris.

 

BTW, we don't have a John Lynch or a Bob Sanders on this team.  And I've noticed nobody mentioning the possibility of a high pick for a S during this entire process....and its the day before the draft.  Amazing.

[shasta519]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'll repeat what Polian has said and what I remember him saying the years he was here about the generally different roles of the LBs in the Tampa 2.  I'm in no position to argue him, I simply remember what he said.

 

WILL is the LB designed to make the tackles.  MIKE drops back and covers the middle.  This is why Gary Brackett was preferred over Jeff Herrod types, who was more of the older school run stopping MIKE.  Rob Morris the SAM, was the funneler. If you were around the forum back then, that word was sarcasm. 

 

Polian could get his LBs in the second and third rounds back then, since a lot of the NFL was still looking for thumpers.  The NFL has changed and now values more active LBs that good Tampa WILLS and MIKES will probably have to be drafted higher than years past.

 

Tampa Bay had Derrick Brooks and then Lavonte David as WILLS.  Bears had Lance Briggs, and yes, Urlacher.  Those were good T2 defenses.  The Colts defenses were not good examples of T2 defenses because they were built around Freeney and the edge pass rush because of Manning.

 

Tampa had Sapp, then McCoy.  Bears had Tommy Harris.

 

BTW, we don't have a John Lynch or a Bob Sanders on this team.  And I've noticed nobody mentioning the possibility of a high pick for a S during this entire process....and its the day before the draft.  Amazing.

 

I am with you regarding S. There are several options for the top pick in this draft...and S is definitely one of them. Even Ballard has said he has 8 non-QB players at the top of his board. Well there's a good chance 1/4 of those players are Ss.

[rockywoj]

I like Polian, but grain of salt, he was the GM overseeing the Colts from 2007 to 2011, when the Colts offensive line consistently became worse and worse to the point that it had become just awful by the end of his tenure.  Granted, he did try to fix that heading into the 2011 season, but it never should have gotten there.  (read, Donald Brown and Jerry Hughs <as well as the Tony Ugoh mistake> instead of bolstering the OL, which was already in dire need of being fixed those years.)

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, rockywoj said:

I like Polian, but grain of salt, he was the GM overseeing the Colts from 2007 to 2011, when the Colts offensive line consistently became worse and worse to the point that it had become just awful by the end of his tenure.  Granted, he did try to fix that heading into the 2011 season, but it never should have gotten there.  (read, Donald Brown and Jerry Hughs <as well as the Tony Ugoh mistake> instead of bolstering the OL, which was already in dire need of being fixed those years.)

Actually Chris Polian was the GM from 2009-2011.

 

Not to say BP did not make mistakes, he did like every GM but fewer than most.  But Chris Polian was not very good GM.

 

Also Jerry Hughes was not a mistake, he played well behind Freeney and Mathis and then was misused by Pags/Grigs went to Buffalo and has played extremely well.

[Coffeedrinker]

I disagree with Polian about Smith being the best WILL in the draft.  I think he's the best 4-3 MIKE in the draft.  I think is coverage ability, couple with his football intelligence and his great speed and agility make him the perfect MIKE in a Cover 2 zone D.

 

I think he would make a great WILL as well but I think MIKE would be a better use of his overall talent.

[rockywoj]

14 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Actually Chris Polian was the GM from 2009-2011.

 

Not to say BP did not make mistakes, he did like every GM but fewer than most.  But Chris Polian was not very good GM.

 

Although Jerry Hughes was not a mistake, he played well behind Freeney and Mathis and then was misused by Pags/Grigs went to Buffalo and has played extremely well.

Well, Chris worked under Bill and I am pretty sure Bill was still pulling the strings.  It was the last draft in 2011 where it was widely reported that Chris oversaw the draft, but one still has to question how much decision making was really by Bill pulling the strings.

 

Jerry was a mistake because of Freeney and Mathis.  Need clearly trumped BPA when it comes to the Hughes pick, in my opinion, thus making his selection a mistake.  You are correct, though, Hughes was indeed not properly utilized, by any of the Colts coaching staffs that had him.

[Rally5]

20 hours ago, DougDew said:

To Mike Wells, who took Quenton Nelson at 6 with Roquan Smith on the board in ESPNs live mock draft,  "Why would you take a G when the second most important position in the new Colts defense, WILL, is sitting there"

 

Which struck me familiar from the days of Polian's radio show.  That WILL is a very important position in the new defense.  Its more important than MIKE.  Its second only to probably 3 Tech.

 

I read on this board fairly frequently that WILL isn't very important.  Polian thinks otherwise.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if we took Roquan.  I think it's very possible.

[waka waka]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I didn't realize how similar their webs are. Edmunds ran a little faster, Vander Esch had a better broad jump... they're pretty close otherwise.

 

And I like Vander Esch, definitely. I watched him after the Combine, I think. But I figure he's a first rounder, or maybe top of the second at worst. 

LVE is the most overhyped player in this draft he could be the next big thing but he's got more knocks against him than positives in my book. He's big but struggles to get off blocks, doesn't diagnose very well and to be honest looks great if he was a WILL people call him a MIKE but he's not right now. for someone that big and that fast you only see it in flashes when he's untouched. Not good at getting through trash and in several games last year disappeared. He's my project LB yeah you can take a flyer on him with our last 2nd round pick but he shouldn't go before Fred in my opinion who i think will be a better pro and is a better player now IMO.   

[waka waka]

55 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'll repeat what Polian has said and what I remember him saying the years he was here about the generally different roles of the LBs in the Tampa 2.  I'm in no position to argue him, I simply remember what he said.

 

WILL is the LB designed to make the tackles.  MIKE drops back and covers the middle.  This is why Gary Brackett was preferred over Jeff Herrod types, who was more of the older school run stopping MIKE.  Rob Morris the SAM, was the funneler. If you were around the forum back then, that word was sarcasm. 

 

Polian could get his LBs in the second and third rounds back then, since a lot of the NFL was still looking for thumpers.  The NFL has changed and now values more active LBs that good Tampa WILLS and MIKES will probably have to be drafted higher than years past.

 

Tampa Bay had Derrick Brooks and then Lavonte David as WILLS.  Bears had Lance Briggs, and yes, Urlacher.  Those were good T2 defenses.  The Colts defenses were not good examples of T2 defenses because they were built around Freeney and the edge pass rush because of Manning.

 

Tampa had Sapp, then McCoy.  Bears had Tommy Harris.

 

BTW, we don't have a John Lynch or a Bob Sanders on this team.  And I've noticed nobody mentioning the possibility of a high pick for a S during this entire process....and its the day before the draft.  Amazing.

I've floated the idea of Derwin James in another thread if hooker is back and picks up you add a Derwin James and the Secondary has a new attitude and becomes very exciting quickly.

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, waka waka said:

I've floated the idea of Derwin James in another thread if hooker is back and picks up you add a Derwin James and the Secondary has a new attitude and becomes very exciting quickly.

I simply don't have confidence in Geathers staying healthy, and I thought he wasn't that amazing when healthy.

 

But I would prefer Ronnie Harrison with one of our 2nds, if he's there.  Smith in the first and Harrison in the second would provide some range and tackling ability the back end of the defense hasn't had in a long time.

 

Here's a write up on Harrison from WalterFootball (yes I know the schtick, WF is terrible)

 

4/25/18: In 2017, Harrison had 74 tackles with 2.5 sacks, three interceptions and four passes batted. He played really well as an enforcer in the middle of the field. Harrison is a tough run defender who has the athletic skills to cover, but he has issues dealing with receivers in man coverage. Team sources have said an example of that was Clemson's Hunter Renfrow really abusing Harrison in the past, and that is why Minkah Fitzpatrick was the coverage safety for the Crimson Tide. Playing zone in the middle of the field is a better fit for Harrison. Because of some coverage limitations, Harrison is a strong safety type for the NFL. Some teams see Harrison as a second-rounder, but they think he still could go in the first round as they don't have 32 players with first-round grades, which will lead some second-rounders to go on Thursday night of the 2018 NFL Draft. 

[Coffeedrinker]

46 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Well, Chris worked under Bill and I am pretty sure Bill was still pulling the strings.  It was the last draft in 2011 where it was widely reported that Chris oversaw the draft, but one still has to question how much decision making was really by Bill pulling the strings.

 

Jerry was a mistake because of Freeney and Mathis.  Need clearly trumped BPA when it comes to the Hughes pick, in my opinion, thus making his selection a mistake.  You are correct, though, Hughes was indeed not properly utilized, by any of the Colts coaching staffs that had him.

Chris did work under Bill.  Bill was the VP of Football Operations and Chris was the GM.  It may have been widely reported in 2011 but Chris took over the GM duties and was responsible for the draft in 2009.

 

This will be the last I say on Jerry Hughes.  The Colts just lost a SB in part (large) part because Freeney was injured and the Colts had no pass rush and Brees had all day to throw.  A guy who could backup Freeney or Mathis was a need and it coincided with the BPA at that pick.