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Finball

Spending a top-20 pick on a RB is one of the worst decisions a team can make

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4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Once again...   you're using examples from pre2000...    JIM McMahon?   Roget Craig?   Emmett Smith?

 

Ir with teams with an all time great defense line Trent Dilfers Ravens or the recent Carolina D with Vom Miller. 

 

You can win a SB without a great QB but you have to have a unique set of circumstances...   but broadly speaking it's not something you can do by building your team that way. 

 

If given a choice every NFL team would take a great QB, Brady or Manning to start their franchise with rather than a great RB like OJ or Bo or Barry or Emmitt.

 

Well we have Andrew Luck already so not an issue with us..Should we take a QB?

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4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No.   Your last sentence is false.  Completely.    You're the only person who believes this.

 

How so?

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Theres significant evidence to support drafting a running back early when comparing recent top picks (Fournette, Elliott, Gurley) vs. Pass Rushers (Soloman Thomas, Donte Fowler) in terms of team success. 

 

I agree with the fact that it's much easier to find much more success with late round RBs then DEs, but you have got to ensure that the DE you're taking is your guy. If you have any doubt with Chubb and you love Barkely it shouldn't be overthought. You take Barkley. His position isn't reason enough to not take him, while position+competition is. 

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2 minutes ago, RealityIsLuck said:

Theres significant evidence to support drafting a running back early when comparing recent top picks (Fournette, Elliott, Gurley) vs. Pass Rushers (Soloman Thomas, Donte Fowler) in terms of team success. 

 

I agree with the fact that it's much easier to find much more success with late round RBs then DEs, but you have got to ensure that the DE you're taking is your guy. If you have any doubt with Chubb and you love Barkely it shouldn't be overthought. You take Barkley. His position isn't reason enough to not take him, while position+competition is. 

Smart post, wish I thought of it!

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2 minutes ago, RealityIsLuck said:

Theres significant evidence to support drafting a running back early when comparing recent top picks (Fournette, Elliott, Gurley) vs. Pass Rushers (Soloman Thomas, Donte Fowler) in terms of team success. 

 

I agree with the fact that it's much easier to find much more success with late round RBs then DEs, but you have got to ensure that the DE you're taking is your guy. If you have any doubt with Chubb and you love Barkely it shouldn't be overthought. You take Barkley. His position isn't reason enough to not take him, while position+competition is. 

JMO you also don’t take Barkley just because he is the next big thing when you have other needs 

 

  You trade back get picks and draft a player like Nelson 

 

 

     I know my opinion means nothing but I  see RB a low priority and my list will not be made until after FA

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14 minutes ago, RealityIsLuck said:

Theres significant evidence to support drafting a running back early when comparing recent top picks (Fournette, Elliott, Gurley) vs. Pass Rushers (Soloman Thomas, Donte Fowler) in terms of team success. 

 

I agree with the fact that it's much easier to find much more success with late round RBs then DEs, but you have got to ensure that the DE you're taking is your guy. If you have any doubt with Chubb and you love Barkely it shouldn't be overthought. You take Barkley. His position isn't reason enough to not take him, while position+competition is. 

Cam Robinson was drafted in the 2nd round and was a starter, therefore I'm giving him the credit for the Jaguars turnaround.

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52 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Nice Straw-man!    Irrelevant is not a word people here use.   Discounted is an acceptable word.    Less important are two words to describe things.

 

It's been demonstrated repeatedly that teams can win without using a first round draft pick on a RB.  Most successful backs were not drafted in the first round.

 

A quality RB is still very important to an offense.   You just don't have to use a first round pick to have a quality running attack.

 

 

47 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

But they can be found everywhere   It took Marshawn 2 teams and nultiple years to be beast mode

 

    I can’t speak for NCF but my issue is that we have far move pressing needs than a top 5 RB

I get what both of you are saying. It isn't necessary to waste a 1st round pick on a RB when serviceable backs can suffice in most cases. Funny how this argument never comes up when addressing another other position though. When Dorsett was a bust nobody screams ah man, that selection set us back 5 yrs at least. LOL! 

 

Here's my question though: Just because something is a widely accepted rule of thumb does that mean you can never break that rule once in a blue moon? In other words, if I think Barkley might be a life changing back for Luck, do I pull that trigger & plunge? Yes, I do because every once in awhile you must go against conventional wisdom. Can you get burned? Absolutely but what if your right & Barkley is instrumental in getting Luck's confidence & mojo back? It's worth every penny. 

 

Like I said before in another thread a few days ago, what good is a pass rusher like Chubb if your offense still struggles scoring in the red zone? If your offense moves the ball with Barkley, controls the time of possession, & keeps the defense fresh, it's a good move any way you slice it. Sequon is worth the risk. 

 

Normally I agree with history, but sometimes even history miscalculates.  

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30 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Once again...   you're using examples from pre2000...    JIM McMahon?   Roget Craig?   Emmett Smith?

 

Ir with teams with an all time great defense line Trent Dilfers Ravens or the recent Carolina D with Vom Miller. 

 

You can win a SB without a great QB but you have to have a unique set of circumstances...   but broadly speaking it's not something you can do by building your team that way. 

 

If given a choice every NFL team would take a great QB, Brady or Manning to start their franchise with rather than a great RB like OJ or Bo or Barry or Emmitt.

 

Recent Carolina D with Von Miller??Did your autocorrect change Carolina to Denver??

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2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

 

I get what both of you are saying. It isn't necessary to waste a 1st round pick on a RB when serviceable backs can suffice in most cases. Funny how this argument never comes up when addressing another other position though. When Dorsett was a bust nobody screams ah man, that selection set us back 5 yrs at least. LOL! 

 

Here's my question though: Just because something is a widely accepted rule of thumb does that mean you can never break that rule once in a blue moon? In other words, if I think Barkley might be a life changing back for Luck, do I pull that trigger & plunge? Yes, I do because every once in awhile you must go against conventional wisdom. Can you get burned? Absolutely but what if your right & Barkley is instrumental in getting Luck's confidence & mojo back? It's worth every penny. 

 

Like I said before in another thread a few days ago, what good is a pass rusher like Chubb if your offense still struggles scoring in the red zone? If your offense moves the ball with Barkley, controls the time of possession, & keeps the defense fresh, it's a good move any way you slice it. Sequon is worth the risk. 

 

Normally I agree with history, but sometimes even history miscalculates.  

Moves like that often cause changes in FO personnel 

   IMO we need to wait and see what happens in FA

    Since Cleveland has 2 top picks they can take a chance on SB but the Colts can’t

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1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Moves like that often cause changes in FO personnel 

   IMO we need to wait and see what happens in FA

    Since Cleveland has 2 top picks they can take a chance on SB but the Colts can’t

Yeah they got a LOADED roster! They can make a luxury pick..No way Colts can take such a risk..

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3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

hqdefault.jpg

I can be led to water and DRINK it..I try and lead others to that life sustaining source..

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Just now, jshipp23 said:

I can be led to water..I try and lead others to that life sustaining source..

Stop then because it isn’t working 

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Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Stop then because it isn’t working 

You are thirsty PT, just quit being stubborn and drink..I like ya man..

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Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Grew up up around one that bite people

Was it Don Mattingly's horse???

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1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

Why haven't we been able to find a good RB in the draft or free agency last 10 years?...Don' t say Gore either, yes he can turn 2 yd gains into 4 yds, but also makes makes potential 30 yd gains 6 yard gains...No defense fears Gore, they will gladly double Hilton instead of bringing an extra man in the box...

That's a pretty easy question to answer. Other than Mack we haven't drafted or pursued a RB other than Gore.

10 years ago we signed Dominic Rhodes from the Raider. We also had Addai on the roster.

9 years ago we drafted Donald Brown

Other RBs we have added were Vick Ballard and  Delone Carter,

in 2013 we signed Bradshaw.

in 2014 we signed Gore

So your comment about 10 years is a little off.

 

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3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

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I get the analogy or meaning BOTT: Just because you can lead a horse to water doesn't mean that he or she will take a drink. You can give the animal one heck of a shower though. haha 

 

Look, I know Ballard will do what's best for the team. I trust him. If we don't get Barkley, I'll be disappointed, but life goes on. I don't concern myself with a poor batting average i.e. being wrong more often then right. I just appreciate that the real football experts on here put up with my shenanigans. Thank you. 

 

I do believe in Barkley though & I want him to have a great career whether we draft him or not.  

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1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

I get the analogy or meaning BOTT: Just because you can lead a horse to water doesn't mean that he or she will take a drink. You can give the animal one heck of a shower though. haha 

 

Look, I know Ballard will do what's best for the team. I trust him. If we don't get Barkley, I'll be disappointed, but life goes on. I don't concern myself with a poor batting average i.e. being wrong more often then right. I just appreciate that the real football experts on here put up with my shenanigans. Thank you. 

 

I do believe in Barkley though & I want him to have a great career whether we draft him or not.  

Never said I wanted to see him fail just not sure if we need to use or too pick on what I consider a low priority need

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

That's a pretty easy question to answer. Other than Mack we haven't drafted or pursued a RB other than Gore.

10 years ago we signed Dominic Rhodes from the Raider. We also had Addai on the roster.

9 years ago we drafted Donald Brown

Other RBs we have added were Vick Ballard and  Delone Carter,

in 2013 we signed Bradshaw.

in 2014 we signed Gore

So your comment about 10 years is a little off.

 

I said Good RB..Bradshaw in his limited time is closest we have come..

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6 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Do you actually think I know the Mattingly family that well

I assumed you guys were friends..

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I have never once said RB is more important than DE...I only said Barkley is the far SUPERIOR player compared to Chubb..

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1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

Why?? You can find a Tom Brady in 6th round or Nick Foles in 3rd round..Why waste a 1st round pick on a QB who could be Joey Harrington or Ryan Leaf? Pick the sure thing Guard like Womack or Jonathan Cooper that's the smart safe way to go...

 

Sorry...   but you're in a very jshipp kind of mood...     this post us do all over the map that I can't tell if you're under the influence.

 

Try not to waste time with sarcasm --- it's not a strength for you.    Either state you point or don't.    But this post us a hot mess....

 

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19 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I can be led to water and DRINK it..I try and lead others to that life sustaining source..

No matter how much flack you receive for your positions JS23, you have an uncanny way of flipping criticisms around & making yourself sound like a misunderstood prophet ahead of his time. It's hilarious!

 

Well, I enjoy it anyway & I'm no draft expert at all. Keep it up....For my own amusement if nothing else. 

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry...   but you're in a very jshipp kind of mood...     this post us do all over the map that I can't tell if you're under the influence.

 

Try not to waste time with sarcasm --- it's not a strength for you.    Either state you point or don't.    But this post us a hot mess....

 

I know you have trouble differentiating..lol. Why I do it..I know I have many flaws as well...How bout them Cardinals?

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5 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

No matter how much flack you receive for your positions JS23, you have an uncanny way of flipping criticisms around & making yourself sound like a misunderstood prophet ahead of his time. It's hilarious!

 

Well, I enjoy it anyway & I'm no draft expert at all. Keep it up....For my own amusement if nothing else. 

I appreciate it SW1..Its all for fun man..

.You also are a unique talent..Why I like this forum..Even the one's I go after I honestly like them cause they challenge me..

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13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry...   but you're in a very jshipp kind of mood...     this post us do all over the map that I can't tell if you're under the influence.

 

Try not to waste time with sarcasm --- it's not a strength for you.    Either state you point or don't.    But this post us a hot mess....

 

Maybe slightly under the influence, I'm still working on it...Be patient, I might make a Jack Doyle is a bum thread later..

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2 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I appreciate it SW1..Its all for fun man..

.You also are a unique talent..Why I like this forum..Even the one's I go after I honestly like them cause they challenge me..

I'm glad you took it as a complement since that was my intention. I liked the originality of your line: 

 

"I try and lead others to that life sustaining source." 

 

Translation: If they'd just heed my advice, life would just be much easier for them & me. Ah, the blessing & curse that intelligence brings. Such a heavy burden to bear. haha I just like layered humor & you're really good at it JS. 

 

Plus, it's a polite way of saying someone is off their rocker without actually saying it.

 

I know we're all friends here & respect each other as regulars even when sometimes certain perspectives, not people, are enough to make you wanna drink. You know the dichotomy between thinking a person is crazy & pounding our heads in private on our desks back home in reality. That's why I keep coming back day after day. 

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7 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I'm glad you took it as a complement since that was my intention. I liked the originality of your line: 

 

"I try and lead others to that life sustaining source." 

 

Translation: If they'd just heed my advice, life would just be much easier for them & me. Ah, the blessing & curse that intelligence brings. Such a heavy burden to bear. haha I just like layered humor & you're really good at it JS. 

 

Plus, it's a polite way of saying someone is off their rocker without actually saying it.

 

I know we're all friends here & respect each other as regulars even when sometimes certain perspectives, not people, are enough to make you wanna drink. You know the dichotomy between thinking a person is crazy & pounding our heads in private on our desks back home in reality. That's why I keep coming back day after day. 

I know brother it gets addicting..I leave, but always come back..U were here in my infancy on this site, and were always good to me..Good to have allies in this brutal war..By the way glad u see the layered humor, it has a tendancy of going over some's heads..

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Yep , Barkley is tantalizing and could be unbelievable, but it's not the right call at 3 for us. 

 

Using that kind of draft capital on a RB for a team with our holes makes no sense. It would very much be a luxury pick , one that we can't afford. 

 

Elite RB's are the cherry on top in today's NFL , and we don't even have the dessert yet. 

 

You simply don't need an elite RB when you have an Elite QB. 

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Just now, Trueman said:

Yep , Barkley is tantalizing and could be unbelievable, but it's not the right call at 3 for us. 

 

Using that kind of draft capital on a RB for a team with our holes makes no sense. It would very much be a luxury pick , one that we can't afford. 

 

Elite RB's are the cherry on top in today's NFL , and we don't even have the dessert yet. 

 

You simply don't need an elite RB when you have an Elite QB. 

How about combining the 2 and watching the show...That could work right?

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1 minute ago, Trueman said:

Yep , Barkley is tantalizing and could be unbelievable, but it's not the right call at 3 for us. 

 

Using that kind of draft capital on a RB for a team with our holes makes no sense. It would very much be a luxury pick , one that we can't afford. 

 

Elite RB's are the cherry on top in today's NFL , and we don't even have the dessert yet. 

 

You simply don't need an elite RB when you have an Elite QB. 

My Agrument in a nutsh 

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Just now, jshipp23 said:

How about combining the 2 and watching the show...That could work right?

Not when there are holes everywhere else

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1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not when there are holes everywhere else

I thought you had a ballgame to watch PT?

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7 hours ago, Finball said:

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/2/23/17041846/nfl-draft-running-back-2018-top-20-saquon-barkley-leonard-fournette-ezekiel-elliott

 

 

I think all of thes have come up in Barkley discussions but here they are in one article.

Two teams the last two years have done that very thing and it changed their teams from loser to playoff contender.

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1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not when there are holes everywhere else

Browns and Giants have more holes than us..Why are they gonna most likely take Barkley?

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1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

I can be led to water and DRINK it..I try and lead others to that life sustaining source..

Boobs?

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2 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Two teams the last two years have done that very thing and it changed their teams from loser to playoff contender.

 Not really

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