Spending a top-20 pick on a RB is one of the worst decisions a team can make

[lance_m8]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

So who do you want at 3 then. I am not going to debate you, just asking. We will probably take Chubb or trade down is my guess anyway.

Trade back and grab chubb or nelson whichever is there I just feel RB doesn't help this team as much as a elite Guard or Pass rusher I'm sure you can agree with me on that 

[lance_m8]

4 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

From the guy who said Moncreif will be elite and deserving a 10 million dollar contract, and we better sign him..

Watch and next offseason I want an apology please have a great night GO COLTS!

[PrincetonTiger]

25 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

You are a strong proponent of drafting BPA (Best Player Available). A couple of years ago when many here were upset about the Dorsett pick, you strongly defended it on the basis that it was BPA. Many wanted a defensive player (Landon Collins, Kendricks, Mack Brown), but you liked the pick. 

 

If Barkley turns out to be BPA when the Colts are on the clock, why are you so opposed to the Colts selecting him?

 

Btw, has the Forum ever created its own Big Board? Perhaps the Forum can have a daily poll and members can vote on the best player available from a list of, say, 10 to 15 players. The player with the most votes at the end of the day is added to the board. If this is done daily until draft day, about 60 players will be on the board. It is just an idea.

Can’t speak for NCF but for me it is this if someone in position of need and /or a trade is there I would hope CB takes that route

[Trueman]

58 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Did you see Dak Prescott against Atlanta & Denver this past season? Dallas's OL didn't look elite there & if they are as great as everyone claims they are there should be no drop off right? 

 

How many yrs have the Jags had #1 draft picks now? An eternity. They've only been relevant under QB Marc Brunell, Leftwich briefly, & this past season with RB Leonard Fournette &  CB Jalen Ramsey. 

 

 

We have an elite QB with a surgically repaired shoulder on his primary throwing arm. Now, more than ever he needs an elite back in Barkley to remove strain on that shoulder. 

 

 

 

How a (average) sophomore QB performs isn't a direct indication of an OL's quality. Everyone knows injuries and departures causes their OL performance to drop off anyways. Zeke wasn't drafted behind that OL , he was drafted behind the previous incarnation that included ( and still does) several 1st round picks. Either way , there's an endless amount of variables/reasons to why they didn't do as well this year.

 

Drafting Fournette didn't suddenly propel Jacksonville into the playoffs. A ton of factors caused that. Coughlin returning being an overlooked aspect and Houston's terrible injury luck as well. 

 

Drafting Barkley because Luck has been hurt doesn't make sense. You know what does? Fixing our O-line and defence so we don't depend on him to do everything . We can find a good back , just because we don't get an elite one, doesn't suddenly mean Luck is less likely to get injured..  

[LJpalmbeacher2]

9 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

You are in a Colts forum, the thought of drafting a player who touches a ball other than a center is stupid and a waste..Build the trenches, we can find undrafted free agents to fill skill positions..

 

I think the mentality of this forum is because of Peyton Manning and Luck being injured.

The Peytonites have to justify only 1 SB title because of horrible defense instead of him choking and offense failing in numerous playoff games. So the thought process is screw the offense, we want DEFENSE and only DEFENSE.

 

Luck always being injured is because of horrible OL in many minds here. But some of know it's also because of bad OL coaching, calling long time consuming plays AND Luck holding ball too long.

Thats my opinion anyway.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, Trueman said:

How a (average) sophomore QB performs isn't a direct indication of an OL's quality. Everyone knows injuries and departures causes their OL performance to drop off anyways. Zeke wasn't drafted behind that OL , he was drafted behind the previous incarnation that included ( and still does) several 1st round picks. Either way , there's an endless amount of variables/reasons to why they didn't do as well this year.

 

Drafting Fournette didn't suddenly propel Jacksonville into the playoffs. A ton of factors

caused that. Coughlin returning being an overlooked aspect and Houston's terrible injury luck as well. 

 

Drafting Barkley because Luck has been hurt doesn't make sense. You know what does? Fixing our O-line and defence so we don't depend on him to do everything . We can find a good back , just because we don't get an elite one, doesn't suddenly mean Luck is less likely to get injured..  

Do you not see that Barkley would make it so Luck wouldn't have to do everything and take a lot of pressure off him literally and figuratively??..

[PrincetonTiger]

Now I know how a Jets fan felt after the Kyle Brady Pick

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I think the mentality of this forum is because of Peyton Manning and Luck being injured.

The Peytonites have to justify only 1 SB title because of horrible defense instead of him choking and offense failing in numerous playoff games. So the thought process is screw the offense, we want DEFENSE and only DEFENSE.

 

Luck always being injured is because of horrible OL in many minds here. But some of know it's also because of bad OL coaching, calling long time consuming plays AND Luck holding ball too long.

Thats my opinion anyway.

Ding ding ding..we have a winner...

[Trueman]

4 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Do you not see that Barkley would make it so Luck wouldn't have to do everything and take a lot of pressure off him literally and figuratively??..

If we don't fix our line and improve our defence it won't matter.

 

QB's and OL's can make good backs have similar production to great backs. And a good OL keeps Luck upright whilst allowing us to invest assets/money elsewhere. 

[southwest1]

2 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Moves like that often cause changes in FO personnel 

   IMO we need to wait and see what happens in FA

    Since Cleveland has 2 top picks they can take a chance on SB but the Colts can’t

No move ever gets made without Jimmy's approval PT. If Barkley gets selected, it's not like it's a rogue move going off the reservation my friend. 

2 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Never said I wanted to see him fail just not sure if we need to use or too pick on what I consider a low priority need

I know that PT. You don't wish ill against anybody. What's better a bunch of average backs or 1 potentially great one? I know; I know no one can predict the future. 

1 hour ago, Trueman said:

Yep , Barkley is tantalizing and could be unbelievable, but it's not the right call at 3 for us. 

 

Using that kind of draft capital on a RB for a team with our holes makes no sense. It would very much be a luxury pick , one that we can't afford. 

 

Elite RB's are the cherry on top in today's NFL , and we don't even have the dessert yet. 

 

You simply don't need an elite RB when you have an Elite QB. 

You realize we missed the playoffs 3 yrs straight right? Didn't  HOF QB John Elway have an elite RB on his way to back to back SB victories? I forget.  Didn't you also say in another thread that Luck's game closely parallels #7 too? It's not a correlation of course. Translation: Terrell Davis got an elite QB in Elway over the hump. Even elite QBs need help. 

1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Find My Happy Place

Hang in there brother. I never try to force my opinions on others. I value your POV even when we are opposite ends of the spectrum like we are now. I know where you stand. You know my perspective & most experts seem to think we land Chubb. 

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I think the position should be totally eliminated from the game!

I know right?  If I hear one more person say that the RB position in the NFL isn't a priority in this modern day NFL, I'm gonna smash something. It's ridiculous. Then people give me the value money argument...Sigh...What can all teams playing in December usually do? Run the darn ball...But, the game has changed now. No, no it hasn't. 

[PrincetonTiger]

15 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I think the mentality of this forum is because of Peyton Manning and Luck being injured.

The Peytonites have to justify only 1 SB title because of horrible defense instead of him choking and offense failing in numerous playoff games. So the thought process is screw the offense, we want DEFENSE and only DEFENSE.

 

Luck always being injured is because of horrible OL in many minds here. But some of know it's also because of bad OL coaching, calling long time consuming plays AND Luck holding ball too long.

Thats my opinion anyway.

Been here from the beginning so what am I

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

No move ever gets made without Jimmy's approval PT. If Barkley gets selected, it's not like it's a rogue move going off the reservation my friend. 

I know that PT. You don't wish ill against anybody. What's better a bunch of average backs or 1 potentially great one? I know; I know no one can predict the future. 

You realize we missed the playoffs 3 yrs straight right? Didn't  HOF QB John Elway have an elite RB on his way to back to back SB victories? I forget.  Didn't you also say in another thread that Luck's game closely parallels #7 too? It's not a correlation of course. Translation: Terrell Davis got an elite QB in Elway over the hump. Even elite QBs need help. 

Hang in there brother. I never try to force my opinions on others. I value your POV even when we are opposite ends of the spectrum like we are now. I know where you stand. You know my perspective & most experts seem to think we land Chubb. 

I know right?  If I hear one more person say that the RB position in the NFL isn't a priority in this modern day NFL, I'm gonna smash something. It's ridiculous. Then people give me the value money argument...Sigh...What can all teams playing in December usually do? Run the darn ball...But, the game has changed now. No, no it hasn't. 

You are killin it tonight..A1 legit truth..

[PrincetonTiger]

7 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

No move ever gets made without Jimmy's approval PT. If Barkley gets selected, it's not like it's a rogue move going off the reservation my friend. 

I know that PT. You don't wish ill against anybody. What's better a bunch of average backs or 1 potentially great one? I know; I know no one can predict the future. 

You realize we missed the playoffs 3 yrs straight right? Didn't  HOF QB John Elway have an elite RB on his way to back to back SB victories? I forget.  Didn't you also say in another thread that Luck's game closely parallels #7 too? It's not a correlation of course. Translation: Terrell Davis got an elite QB in Elway over the hump. Even elite QBs need help. 

Hang in there brother. I never try to force my opinions on others. I value your POV even when we are opposite ends of the spectrum like we are now. I know where you stand. You know my perspective & most experts seem to think we land Chubb. 

I know right?  If I hear one more person say that the RB position in the NFL isn't a priority in this modern day NFL, I'm gonna smash something. It's ridiculous. Then people give me the value money argument...Sigh...What can all teams playing in December usually do? Run the darn ball...But, the game has changed now. No, no it hasn't. 

I was looking at History and referring to the PD pick and how it affected RGs future

 

    No one,not even SB, knows if he will be a HOF

    

 

   There are some here who do not or do not have your way with words 

[crazycolt1]

All this is a waste. Barkley is not going to be there at #3.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

No move ever gets made without Jimmy's approval PT. If Barkley gets selected, it's not like it's a rogue move going off the reservation my friend. 

I know that PT. You don't wish ill against anybody. What's better a bunch of average backs or 1 potentially great one? I know; I know no one can predict the future. 

You realize we missed the playoffs 3 yrs straight right? Didn't  HOF QB John Elway have an elite RB on his way to back to back SB victories? I forget.  Didn't you also say in another thread that Luck's game closely parallels #7 too? It's not a correlation of course. Translation: Terrell Davis got an elite QB in Elway over the hump. Even elite QBs need help. 

Hang in there brother. I never try to force my opinions on others. I value your POV even when we are opposite ends of the spectrum like we are now. I know where you stand. You know my perspective & most experts seem to think we land Chubb. 

I know right?  If I hear one more person say that the RB position in the NFL isn't a priority in this modern day NFL, I'm gonna smash something. It's ridiculous. Then people give me the value money argument...Sigh...What can all teams playing in December usually do? Run the darn ball...But, the game has changed now. No, no it hasn't. 

It's the same regurgitated talk over and over and over.... Since Mel Kiper said it frw years ago. At least their not talking as much as they used to about getting UDFA RB. Now some say in 3rd or 4th rd.....its slowly getting better..... I think

[jshipp23]

4 minutes ago, Trueman said:

If we don't fix our line and improve our defence it won't matter.

 

QB's and OL's can make good backs have similar production to great backs. And a good OL keeps Luck upright whilst allowing us to invest assets/money elsewhere. 

The main issue with Luck not being upright is the coaches and scheme, 7 step drops, long developing plays..I think that won't be an issue anymore..So you know, Manning had lines worse than Luck, but they knew how to adapt and scheme..

[Trueman]

@southwest1 

 

yeah , but again , you're talking about pre 2004 , and the Broncos were famous for being able to create "star" rbs because of their zone blocking scheme. They produced endless 1000 yard backs out of no-name guys.

 

TD himself was a 6th round pick , not the 3rd overall selection in the most pass-dominant era this league has seen. Big difference.

[Finball]

24 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

If I hear one more person say that the RB position in the NFL isn't a priority in this modern day NFL, I'm gonna smash something. It's ridiculous. Then people give me the value money argument...Sigh...What can all teams playing in December usually do? Run the darn ball...But, the game has changed now. No, no it hasn't. 

 

Then why is it the lowest paid position in the NFL, excluding special teams?

 

Teams playing in December have to be able to play defense and pass the ball. Rushing is less important, otherwise we would see best rushing teams win more games than the ones that are the best as passing and playing defense.

[PrincetonTiger]

Find My Happy Place

[Trueman]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Manning had lines worse than Luck, but they knew how to adapt and scheme..

You sure about that?

 

I don't see any Jeff Saturdays or Tarik Glenn's wearing the horseshoe.

[Trueman]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

All this is a waste. Barkley is not going to be there at #3.

 

Tough call. Do the Browns want to risk waiting till #4 to take their QB? Do they sign Cousins? 

 

Do the Giants want to pass on getting Eli's successor? 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Trueman said:

You sure about that?

 

I don't see any Jeff Saturdays or Tarik Glenn's wearing the horseshoe.

Forgot Ryan Diem 

 

  As a Former OL/DL and OL Coach the trenches are always key to me

[jshipp23]

We got. Line full of top 3 rd picks.. Manning had Glenn then Castonzo, and late rd picks and undrafted free agents

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Trueman said:

 

Tough call. Do the Browns want to risk waiting till #4 to take their QB? Do they sign Cousins? 

 

Do the Giants want to pass on getting Eli's successor? 

Interesting thought

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

The main issue with Luck not being upright is the coaches and scheme, 7 step drops, long developing plays..I think that won't be an issue anymore..So you know, Manning had lines worse than Luck, but they knew how to adapt and scheme..

The main thing that kept Peyton standing was timing routes and one of the quickest releases ever. It also helped he had Harrison, Wayne and a couple of great TEs. Not to mention one of the best RBs in the business that knew how to block and catch passes out of the backfield. (Addai).

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Forgot Ryan Diem 

 

  As a Former OL/DL and OL Coach the trenches are always key to me

Yeah .late round pick..

[southwest1]

1 minute ago, Finball said:

Then why is it the lowest paid position in the NFL, excluding special teams?

That's like saying over paying QBs in free agency like Kirk Cousins means where ever he lands that team is going to the SB.

 

A pay scale doesn't dictate value automatically. Ryan Leaf...Albert Haynesworth in Washington...Jamarcus Russell in the Black Hole...

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

The main thing that kept Peyton standing was timing routes and one of the quickest releases ever. It also helped he had Harrison, Wayne and a couple of great TEs. Not to mention one of the best RBs in the business that knew how to block and catch passes out of the backfield. (Addai).

Love for a fellow Tri-Stater Ken Dilger

[Trueman]

4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Forgot Ryan Diem 

 

  As a Former OL/DL and OL Coach the trenches are always key to me

Yeah even Diem would have been a huge upgrade on what Luck has had.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

That's like saying over paying QBs in free agency like Kirk Cousins means where ever he lands that team is going to the SB.

 

A pay scale doesn't dictate value automatically. Ryan Leaf...Albert Haynesworth in Washington...Jamarcus Russell in the Black Hole...

The same goes for NCAA success see Tim Couch

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

You always chime in I only respond..I know you are easily confused, so I try and keep it simple for you as evidenced in this thread..

.

 

F. O.

 

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, Trueman said:

 

Tough call. Do the Browns want to risk waiting till #4 to take their QB? Do they sign Cousins? 

 

Do the Giants want to pass on getting Eli's successor? 

The Giants will have a couple more years to look for Eli's successor. The Owner, GM and the head coach have already said Eli was going to be the starter this season.

As far as the Browns there are a couple of QBs that can be signed as free agents. Pick Barkley at #1 then pick a QB for the future at #4.

[Finball]

26 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

That's like saying over paying QBs in free agency like Kirk Cousins means where ever he lands that team is going to the SB.

 

A pay scale doesn't dictate value automatically. Ryan Leaf...Albert Haynesworth in Washington...Jamarcus Russell in the Black Hole...

 

I think it would tell something we already know, QB is the most important position.

 

Only one RB had average salary of 8.5M or more last year.

 

OL? 37.

 

DL? 31.

 

Those players were (wrongly) valued, they just weren't good.

[PrincetonTiger]

Friendly Reminder from TigerTown   

   We need to stop with the personal attacks

[jshipp23]

8 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

That's like saying over paying QBs in free agency like Kirk Cousins means where ever he lands that team is going to the SB.

 

A pay scale doesn't dictate value automatically. Ryan Leaf...Albert Haynesworth in Washington...Jamarcus Russell in the Black Hole...

The big boys get paid..Peterson got paid, Bell is gonna get 15 million per, and Zeke will be paid soon..Sure you can try and avg salary when you got 5 running backs some on league minimum...You got a backups at every other position if you construct team right, but some positions have 1 backup, aome like RB have 3 or 4 so the numbers aren't relevant..Most players in NFL aren't millionaires..

[NFLfan]

25 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Can’t speak for NCF but for me it is this if someone in position of need and /or a trade is there I would hope CB takes that route

 

I hear you. My post was for Superman because he always preaches BPA. 

[Trueman]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

The Giants will have a couple more years to look for Eli's successor. The Owner, GM and the head coach have already said Eli was going to be the starter this season.

As far as the Browns there are a couple of QBs that can be signed as free agents. Pick Barkley at #1 then pick a QB for the future at #4.

Maybe they do that. But just because the owner said Eli would remain the starter doesn't mean they'll pass on their next guy. There's no reason for them to assume they'll have the #2 pick again anytime soon , they could take a QB with intention of,red-shirting him for a year or two. The only reason they pass on a QB is if they're not sold on the top QB prospects , it has nothing to do with Eli.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

I hear you. My post was for Superman because he always preaches BPA. 

 BPA at position of need is often the way teams go unless they have the luxury of good vets at every position or multiple picks

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Trueman said:

Maybe they do that. But just because the owner said Eli would remain the starter doesn't mean they'll pass on their next guy. There's no reason for them to assume they'll have the #2 pick again anytime soon , they could take a QB with intention of,red-shirting him for a year or two. The only reason they pass on a QB is if they're not sold on the top QB prospects , it has nothing to do with Eli.

That would not go over well with some in the NY media

[crazycolt1]

Just now, Trueman said:

Maybe they do that. But just because the owner said Eli would remain the starter doesn't mean they'll pass on their next guy. There's no reason for them to assume they'll have the #2 pick again anytime soon , they could take a QB with intention of,red-shirting him for a year or two. The only reason they pass on a QB is if they're not sold on the top QB prospects , it has nothing to do with Eli.

Could be but IMO there are no QBs in this draft that overwhelms me at all. There are a few coming out next year that will draw just as much attention.

The Giants had no RBs on their roster who wouldn't struggle even making a roster on another team. They get both their starting WRs back from injury. The Giants haven't had a RB that has come close to what they had in Bradshaw when they didn't re sign him. They have already said they are willing to make a hard run at the best free agent O-lineman in the NFL. So there is good reason to think the Giants may very well pick Barkley. They already know the super bowl winners are in their division and they need to get a roster together to be competitive.