This team's scheme (or lack thereof)

[Defjamz26]

What schemes? The Colts don't have any schemes. All they have is unfulfilled dreams of the type of schemes they want to run. The Colts have no identity. If they had anything resembling an identity it'd be "Hope that Luck to Hilton, and Vinateri FGs are enough to win the game" 

[Jason_]

7 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

What schemes? The Colts don't have any schemes. All they have is unfulfilled dreams of the type of schemes they want to run. The Colts have no identity. If they had anything resembling an identity it'd be "Hope that Luck to Hilton, and Vinateri FGs are enough to win the game" 

 

And there you go again.

[Superman]

5 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

 But, IF the Colts should win Sunday and play well, will he be given credit?

 

History says no. The team loses because of him, wins in spite of him. 

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

He was the worst NFL coach last week bar none. 

Poor game planning, team not ready to play, didn't challenge apparent touchdown, changing offensive line during game week, let Goff look like a HOF quarterback.

 

This all happened against the Rams with a first time head coach.

 

Thats fine.    A fair post.     Worst post of week one is a good post.    I wish more fans would see your post and take it to heart.      Reasonable is all I ask.

 

Good post.     Appreciate it.

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

My only gripes with all the negativity are:

 

 Personal insults bordering on schoolyard mentalities.

 

  Disregarding the fact that ALL HCs struggle, make stupid mistakes, bad decisions. (Belicheck had just ONE winning season in his first six years). 

 

  Discounting what Pagano has had to work with, regarding talent level and injuries.

 

  Refusing to believe he can learn from his mistakes and coach better.

 

  Putting poor execution on his shoulders ( it wasn't him who missed kicks, missed tackles, fumbled, made poor throws or stupid penalties). 

 

  People are frustrated and there are a lot of fingers pointing his way.

   But, IF the Colts should win Sunday and play well, will he be given credit?

 

Heckuva post!     Fair.    Balanced.    Reasonable.   And very thoughtful!

 

Damn this is a good post!    I hope it's read by many and you get a lot of love for it.

 

Really appreciate it!       

[Superman]

6 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

He was the worst NFL coach last week bar none. 

Poor game planning, team not ready to play, didn't challenge apparent touchdown, changing offensive line during game week, let Goff look like a HOF quarterback.

 

This all happened against the Rams with a first time head coach.

 

I don't blame Pagano for the OL changes, and I don't really think the OL was a major issue. It's not ideal to have as much change as we've had, but I think most of that has been out of the coaching staff's hands. We need better players and more depth. We also need to call better plays and have better QB execution (or just execute the QB). 

 

As for Goff, I think he's better than anyone will admit. He's been getting buried since early last season, by a bunch of people who are overly impatient, and he was coached by a staff that has a long history of being bad with QBs. I don't think his performance Sunday was a complete anomaly, I think McVay and Co will be good for him. 

[Hoose]

41 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't blame Pagano for the OL changes, and I don't really think the OL was a major issue. It's not ideal to have as much change as we've had, but I think most of that has been out of the coaching staff's hands. We need better players and more depth. We also need to call better plays and have better QB execution (or just execute the QB). 

 

As for Goff, I think he's better than anyone will admit. He's been getting buried since early last season, by a bunch of people who are overly impatient, and he was coached by a staff that has a long history of being bad with QBs. I don't think his performance Sunday was a complete anomaly, I think McVay and Co will be good for him. 

I do agree with your comments about Goff. The kid has talent; he has better coaches around him now, and will surprise some people this year. But you have to admit that the Colts also made him look like an All Pro. No scheming to put pressure on? Where were the blitzes? The coaching staff  had months to plan for this game. Goff will be a good QB in time; the Colt's D scheme just made him look way better than he is today. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Hoose said:

I do agree with your comments about Goff. The kid has talent; he has better coaches around him now, and will surprise some people this year. But you have to admit that the Colts also made him look like an All Pro. No scheming to put pressure on? Where were the blitzes? The coaching staff  had months to plan for this game. Goff will be a good QB in time; the Colt's D scheme just made him look way better than he is today. 

 

They did blitz, just didn't get home. And they had enough trouble covering, I personally would have stuck with four man pressures most of the game. 

 

The Colts do have a historic ability to bring out the best in opposing players, though. Seems like a lot of average guys have their career best games against us.

[Blueblood23]

20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They did blitz, just didn't get home. And they had enough trouble covering, I personally would have stuck with four man pressures most of the game. 

 

The Colts do have a historic ability to bring out the best in opposing players, though. Seems like a lot of average guys have their career best games against us.

And that's due to a poor defensive scheme. It will improve a lot soon.

[Superman]

20 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

And that's due to a poor defensive scheme. It will improve a lot soon.

 

I don't think the scheme was the problem Sunday. The problem is we couldn't cover anyone. Melvin got ate up, Green gave up a big play, Bostic couldn't adjust to a ball in the air (blame his cast, IMO), and in general we just couldn't cover receivers.

 

To Goff's credit, he threw the ball accurately, on time, with confidence, and he checked down when appropriate. He played a solid game.

[Blueblood23]

56 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think the scheme was the problem Sunday. The problem is we couldn't cover anyone. Melvin got ate up, Green gave up a big play, Bostic couldn't adjust to a ball in the air (blame his cast, IMO), and in general we just couldn't cover receivers.

 

To Goff's credit, he threw the ball accurately, on time, with confidence, and he checked down when appropriate. He played a solid game.

That's one of the problems, Bostic should not have had to cover that TE. Colts showed their hand early and Bostic was the mismatch.

[DougDew]

Just now, Blueblood23 said:

That's one of the problems, Bostic should not have had to cover that TE. Colts showed their hand early and Bostic was the mismatch.

Venturi said as much.  No LB would have been in position to defend the TE there because they had open space ahead of him.  Just lob it up way ahead of the TE to where only he could get it.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

That's one of the problems, Bostic should not have had to cover that TE. Colts showed their hand early and Bostic was the mismatch.

 

Sometimes linebackers have to cover up the field. That's not a scheme problem. Bostic is the Will, he's going to be in coverage, especially against TEs. 

[ThaCaliColt]

On 9/12/2017 at 7:03 AM, BProland85 said:

This team's scheme both offensively and defensively, is completely embarrassing. This is a huge part of the reason why this team completely sucks right now. We talk about the scheme and system the Patriots have, and how players just seem to perform well there when they don't perform elsewhere.

 

Well Indy is the complete opposite of that. They lack any kind of defined scheme or planning to put players in the best scenario to succeed. Why else do free agents continue to bust once they come here? 

 

Here's to hoping a new coaching staff changes all of this come next year. 

I'm still trying to figure out what what the "schemes" are...seems like the coaches just shuffle cards in an attempt to see what works and what doesn't. Raw talent, poor coaching and random pieces to a puzzle that don't fit...

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, ThaCaliColt said:

I'm still trying to figure out what what the "schemes" are...

 

Vertical/Coryell on offense

 

3-4 on defense. I didn't pay enough attention on Sunday to see if they were 1 gapping, 2 gapping or both, but last year it was primarily a 1 gap

 

Does that help?

[southwest1]

On September 12, 2017 at 10:20 AM, RollerColt said:

This is Pagano's prove it year to earn the right to stay as a head coach. So far, he is showing Ballard that he needs to be replaced.

I need to see more then 1 lopsided game loss before I say Pagano is officially done in INDY. Wade Phillips is a top tier DC now. Most offenses struggle against his defenses. 

 

I do agree that Chuck's on the hot seat this yr, but I can't cling to anything substantial until say week 10 regarding Chuck's fate. 

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I need to see more then 1 lopsided game loss before I say Pagano is officially done in INDY. Wade Phillips is a top tier DC now. Most offenses struggle against his defenses. 

 

I do agree that Chuck's on the hot seat this yr, but I can't cling to anything substantial until say week 10 regarding Chuck's fate. 

Oh I agree, that's why I said he should be at this current time. There's no guarantee if he stays or goes. Things are always fluctuating. 

 

Most on here will counter with the statistic of how many lopsided loses Chuck has had during his tenure. It doesn't look good for sure. But each year the team is different. This unit in particular is drastically different. 

 

By week 10 though the writing should be on the wall. We'll see what it says.

[Albaby]

On 9/12/2017 at 7:03 AM, BProland85 said:

This team's scheme both offensively and defensively, is completely embarrassing. This is a huge part of the reason why this team completely sucks right now. We talk about the scheme and system the Patriots have, and how players just seem to perform well there when they don't perform elsewhere.

 

Well Indy is the complete opposite of that. They lack any kind of defined scheme or planning to put players in the best scenario to succeed. Why else do free agents continue to bust once they come here? 

 

Here's to hoping a new coaching staff changes all of this come next year. 

I honestly believe that Pagano is in over his head.  He would probably make a good high school football coach, but that's about it.  Our 2 coordinators are atrocious and Pagano thinks they're great.  

[NewColtsFan]

On 9/12/2017 at 2:10 PM, DougDew said:

Well, all you've done is establish that you are a poor judge of posts.

 

Of course its an opinion.  Who on this forum has actual facts about meddling?  Certainly the media never established that there were any facts about meddling...but they just went with it...as they do most things.

 

Since nobody has facts, the whole forum is speculation formed by reasoned logic.  

 

Pagano went 11-5 during the years Grigson was accused of meddling.  So what facts are present that Pagano could've gone 11-5 without his meddling?  Or would that just be an opinion?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry Doug.....    but it should be overly obvious to any six year old,  that you're not blessed with anything resembling "reasoned logic" 

 

THAT'S the point.

 

Look.....   you're entitled to your opinioons.....   express them freely and as often as you want.    Just don't be surprised when someone comes along and calls you on it.      

 

That you had to try and puff-up Grigson for interferring because he felt he had to, is all I need to know about your feelings on Chuck Pagano.

 

THAT is reasoned logic.

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

do the coaches make their plan  to fit  the players  or do they make the players fit the coaches scheme

[ThaCaliColt]

20 hours ago, J@son said:

 

Vertical/Coryell on offense

 

3-4 on defense. I didn't pay enough attention on Sunday to see if they were 1 gapping, 2 gapping or both, but last year it was primarily a 1 gap

 

Does that help?

I was actually being sarcastic with respect to the schemes being used. It's just that so often this team seems to be blindsided by the competition and preparedness of their opponents. It just makes me question the game planning altogether....

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

I'm sorry Doug.....    but it should be overly obvious to any six year old,  that you're not blessed with anything resembling "reasoned logic" 

 

THAT'S the point.

 

Look.....   you're entitled to your opinioons.....   express them freely and as often as you want.    Just don't be surprised when someone comes along and calls you on it.      

 

That you had to try and puff-up Grigson for interferring because he felt he had to, is all I need to know about your feelings on Chuck Pagano.

 

THAT is reasoned logic.

 

Unlike many others, I never give one liners.  I always support by comments by an explanation (unless I feel like being a smart-aleck).  If you disagree with the explanation,  then offer another one for what happens.  

 

Reasoned logic is about having no bias.  Let the conclusion fall where it may.  In your post above, you are accusing me of not liking chuck pagano, which then creates a bias when judging Grigson.  That somehow its inherently a either/or, us vs them, this guy or that guy way of seeing the situation. No.

 

Many have observed Pagano's shortcomings.  Others observe Grigson's abrasive personality.  Somehow, they think that Grigson meddled into traditional coaching duties because of an ego issue.  They have said so. Because he treats the media meanly means he bullies everyone because that's who he is, so that's why he meddles in coaching.

 

Its much more likely that Grigson is a reasonably intelligent person who observed the same shortcomings in Pagano that many other do, and observed others first hand that we know nothing about, and meddled because he felt it was best for the team.

 

Meddling may not have helped the team, or it may have.  But to say it was because he's a bully who can't help himself being corrupted by power and position and NOT because he was trying to help the team seems like looking at a situation in a way that supports a personal dislike.

 

[Jason_]

33 minutes ago, ThaCaliColt said:

I was actually being sarcastic with respect to the schemes being used. It's just that so often this team seems to be blindsided by the competition and preparedness of their opponents. It just makes me question the game planning altogether....

yeah...I kinda figured ;)

[Defjamz26]

On 9/13/2017 at 1:54 PM, J@son said:

 

And there you go again.

Care to elaborate?

[Jason_]

10 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Care to elaborate?

 

I mean...I bolded and underlined what I was specifically referring to. 

[lollygagger8]

This coaching staff has a scheme....it's to look straight into the headlights of the opposition and let the team get crushed