The Chuck Pagano you've been asking for?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Quoting facts will not change the minds of the ones who blame Pagano of all the Colts faults.

They will be the same one who will blame Pagano if the Colts don't win the division and a playoff game or two even with 60% new players. As it stands right now the Colts are too young and inexperienced to make a serious run into the playoffs. That is reality but that will make no difference to the ones who will not accept someone needs to get fired.

 

I am not so sure we wont win the Division but Luck has to be healthy. Making a deep run in the Playoffs is highly doubtful so I agree there.

[Yoshinator]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Do you ever get tired of beating a dead horse?

This subject has been debated, argued, yelled, ignored and any other thing you care to add and to keep harping on it is a waist of time and effort at this point.

It seems Pagano has a GM who has his back by bringing players in that may help this team. This season is not going to tell us anything with the 60% of new players on the roster. The Colts right now are too young and inexperienced to make a serious run into the playoffs.

This treating Pagano like he has to be as good as an experienced head coach with only five years under his belt is totally unrealistic and asinine. One draft does not make the Colts a super power team.

Lets say we go 8-8 again with Luck at QB all year. How long are you willing to keep Pagano then? Do you keep him for 3 more years, hope he does well, and if he fails, then you fire him going into year 9 of Luck's career when he is over 30 and we start over. We need to know if he can win and if he's good enough. This is a year where he needs to step up to the plate. If he doesn't and we keep him, that is very bad for Luck's timeframe of his career to win a SB. A SB isn't guaranteed, and we may need every year of Luck's career to pull one off. Pagano shouldn't have an unlimited timeframe to get better, and even you would admit that. A decision needs to be made one way or another so we'll have that chance to win a SB. If Pagano is our guy, I'm fine with it if it clicks with him. If not, then get someone else who can while Luck is young enough to win one. A lot of people assume on this forum believe Luck will play close to as long as Manning, but he'll probably play less because of so many injuries. We probably have 8-10 years max with Luck, counting this year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Lets say we go 8-8 again with Luck at QB all year. How long are you willing to keep Pagano then? Do you keep him for 3 more years, hope he does well, and if he fails, then you fire him going into year 9 of Luck's career when he is over 30 and we start over. We need to know if he can win and if he's good enough. This is a year where he needs to step up to the plate. If he doesn't and we keep him, that is very bad for Luck's timeframe of his career to win a SB. A SB isn't guaranteed, and we may need every year of Luck's career to pull one off. Pagano shouldn't have an unlimited timeframe to get better, and even you would admit that. A decision needs to be made one way or another so we'll have that chance to win a SB. If Pagano is our guy, I'm fine with it if it clicks with him. If not, then get someone else who can while Luck is young enough to win one. A lot of people assume on this forum Luck will play close to as long as Manning, but he'll probably play less because of so many injuries. We probably have 8-10 years max with Luck, counting this year.

It will be interesting to see if Irsay fires him if we do go 8-8 again. What if we go 10-6 and win the Division and win a Playoff game, how would you feel about keeping him? I think 1 more Draft may really help the Colts out bigtime as well.

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Lets say we go 8-8 again with Luck at QB all year. How long are you willing to keep Pagano then? Do you keep him for 3 more years, hope he does well, and if he fails, then you fire him going into year 9 of Luck's career when he is over 30 and we start over. We need to know if he can win and if he's good enough. This is a year where he needs to step up to the plate. If he doesn't and we keep him, that is very bad for Luck's timeframe of his career to win a SB. A SB isn't guaranteed, and we may need every year of Luck's career to pull one off. Pagano shouldn't have an unlimited timeframe to get better, and even you would admit that. A decision needs to be made one way or another so we'll have that chance to win a SB. If Pagano is our guy, I'm fine with it if it clicks with him. If not, then get someone else who can while Luck is young enough to win one. A lot of people assume on this forum Luck will play close to as long as Manning, but he'll probably play less because of so many injuries. We probably have 8-10 years max with Luck, counting this year.

I have no crystal ball but neither do you.

I don't care how good a head coach is he cant produce players with the talent level it takes without help from the GM and the teams whole scouting crew. You want to lay it all on Pagano when building a NFL team is a total effort from the top to the bottom. That is exactly why Irsay fired Grigson and retained Pagano. Irsay is not a rookie owner and IMO knows his business.

Right or wrong we will not know till this all plays out. Beating a dead horse and arguing about it does nothing.

 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It will be interesting to see if Irsay fires him if we do go 8-8 again. What if we go 10-6 and win the Division and win a Playoff game, how would you feel about keeping him? I think 1 more Draft may really help the Colts out bigtime as well.

That would depend on two things. First, which team did we beat. If Pagano beat the Steelers or Raiders in the playoffs, then he deserves another year. If he beats a scrub like the Texans or Bengals though, then it depends on how he does in the next game. If he puts up a great game in a losing effort vs the Pats, I'd keep him. If he loses badly like 2014, then I'd still get rid of him, as we'd be no closer to a SB. Same vs the Steelers and Raiders in that scenario.

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, Jules said:

I love the thread title. 

 

The new.........the improved.......the tougher......THE CHUCK PAGANO YOU BEEN WAITING FOR!!!!!!

 

 

 

Maybe it's just me or is he morphing into Jeff Fisher??

 

 

[Jules]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

Maybe it's just me or is he morphing into Jeff Fisher??

 

I think it's just you but now you put the thought in my head.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Chuck looks like someone from the Mob in that Pic!

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have no crystal ball but neither do you.

I don't care how good a head coach is he cant produce players with the talent level it takes without help from the GM and the teams whole scouting crew. You want to lay it all on Pagano when building a NFL team is a total effort from the top to the bottom. That is exactly why Irsay fired Grigson and retained Pagano. Irsay is not a rookie owner and IMO knows his business.

Right or wrong we will not know till this all plays out. Beating a dead horse and arguing about it does nothing.

 

It was definitely the right decision to fire Grigson. 100%. That was done to get the new GM in and give Pagano another year. However, we do know some of the things are Pagano's fault, including the penalties and slow starts on offense (and the offense shouldn't be a problem). He'll get another chance with a better defense (hopefully) and some guys drafted in the first three rounds that fit his forte (CB and S). He'll get his chance, but it's hard not to be critical. I guess we'll just have to watch and see.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Chuck looks like someone from the Mob in that Pic!

Is Pagano Italian? LOL  

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It was definitely the right decision to fire Grigson. 100%. That was done to get the new GM in and give Pagano another year. However, we do know some of the things are Pagano's fault, including the penalties and slow starts on offense (and the offense shouldn't be a problem). He'll get another chance with a better defense (hopefully) and some guys drafted in the first three rounds that fit his forte (CB and S). He'll get his chance, but it's hard not to be critical. I guess we'll just have to watch and see.

The penalties have drove me insane since 2015. In 2013 and 2014 weren't we one of the least penalized teams? In those 2 seasons we didn't beat ourselves, one reason why we went 11-5 both seasons and went deep into the Playoffs. Just didn't have the talent to beat the Pats.

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It was definitely the right decision to fire Grigson. 100%. That was done to get the new GM in and give Pagano another year. However, we do know some of the things are Pagano's fault, including the penalties and slow starts on offense (and the offense shouldn't be a problem). He'll get another chance with a better defense (hopefully) and some guys drafted in the first three rounds that fit his forte (CB and S). He'll get his chance, but it's hard not to be critical. I guess we'll just have to watch and see.

That's all any of us can do.

All the arguments are over and there is really not much more than can be said. Continuing in that direction does nothing but retread old stuff.

Chuck gets his chance but this season may still not be the one that gets the results we all want.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The penalties have drove me insane since 2015. In 2013 and 2014 weren't we one of the least penalized teams? In those 2 seasons we didn't beat ourselves, one reason why we went 11-5 both seasons and went deep into the Playoffs. Just didn't have the talent to beat the Pats.

2014 was a very solid year. We were putting it together and it clicked for the most part. What ended up hurting us in the following years was the horrible drafting of 2013 and 2014. Besides Moncrief and Mewhort, none of those guys hit (we got Vontae, but he wasn't drafted). After that, we just fell apart and the bleeding has just now stopped with Ballard taking over. I hope we can recover while the opportunity is still there to win a SB. We may not have another Luck type talent at QB for 10-20 years afterwards.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

2014 was a very solid year. We were putting it together and it clicked for the most part. What ended up hurting us in the following years was the horrible drafting of 2013 and 2014. Besides Moncrief and Mewhort, none of those guys hit (we got Vontae, but he wasn't drafted). After that, we just fell apart and the bleeding has just now stopped with Ballard taking over. I hope we can recover while the opportunity is still there to win a SB. We may not have another Luck type talent at QB for 10-20 years afterwards.

2013 was a solid year as well. We actually played the Patriots much better in the Playoffs that season than in 2014. Ended up losing 43-22 but at 1 time if I remember right we were within a TD in the 4th Q until L. Blount killed us. That was the season Mathis led the league in sacks. Too bad Mathis was injured in 2014.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

2013 was a solid year as well. We actually played the Patriots much better in the Playoffs that season than in 2014. Ended up losing 43-22 but at 1 time if I remember right we were with a TD in the 4th Q until L Blount killed us. That was the season Mathis led the league in sacks. Too bad Mathis was injured in 2014.

That was a pretty decent year as well. It's too bad we wasted a 1st rounder on Richardson. That could of been a useful pick. Ballard has to clean up Grigson's mess now. Luckily, he seems to know what he is doing. Not everyone will hit, but I'd bet a handful will. Looking forward to the season and seeing what the new additions can do! If Luck is 100% healthy, we may make it interesting! 

[NewColtsFan]

50 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

1.  I am pretty sure Andrew Luck can feel comfortable about making the team.  That's said as a joke as I get the bigger point.

 

2.  The Pagano I want to see is one who gets his teams to reduce pentaly flags (which they clearly didn't Sunday), doesn't make crucial coaching mistakes like calling a time out when you are driving on Detroit to win the game or the 4th and 2 fake punt with a guy who had never practiced it, and has a team who is ready to play when the game starts and doesn't have to get down 21-3 before they start playing.  

 

Those things remain to be seen and frankly outside of the pentalies is going to be hard to see in the pre-season so I can't really say if he's the Chuck I want to see or not.

 

 

Fair enough.....

 

But to your point number 2....    I'd like to remind you and others...   that two of the last 3 Super Bowls have been decided by two of the biggest brain farts in coaching history.      15 had Pete Carroll deciding to throw at the goal line with Lynch in the backfield and mobile QB Russell Wilson throwing into the teeth of the defense.    What could possibly go wrong. 

 

And 17 SB had Atlanta with a first down at the NE 22 after Jone's incredible catch.    All the Falcon had to do was take a knee 3 times and burn off the clock, then kick a field goal.     Atlanta would've won.    Dan Quinn needed to take control of his team and make sure that Kyle Shanahan made the right calls.    Quinn failed to do so.     

 

So,  even the best coaches can make monumental mistakes at the worst possible time.    

 

Just saying.....

 

[jameszeigler834]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

For those who have been openly wanting a tougher Chuck Pagano,  well,   I think you now have him.

 

1.     When Chester Rogers fielded a punt inside his own 5 yard line he was greeted on the sidelines by......    Chuck Pagano.     An unhappy Chuck Pagano.    And I think it appeared to be outside the team zone on the sideline.     I'd guess it was around the 20 or 25 yardline.      Pagano was not happy and it was pretty obvious.    He was not yelling and screaming,   but he was stone cold serious and there was no clapping or pat on the back.    

 

2.     Afterward,  Pagano's public comment was that Rogers play was "a critical error."       Not sure he's ever used that kind of language in public before....

 

3.     Today,   on ESPN,   there's a Pagano story where he's quote as saying "injured or not,   NO ONE should feel comfortable about making the team."

 

 

So,   we've played exactly one game,   and there are three solid examples of a tough Chuck Pagano.       There will likely be more of this to come in camp.....

 

 

Good he should have been like that all along.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Fair enough.....

 

But to your point number 2....    I'd like to remind you and others...   that two of the last 3 Super Bowls have been decided by two of the biggest brain farts in coaching history.      15 had Pete Carroll deciding to throw at the goal line with Lynch in the backfield and mobile QB Russell Wilson throwing into the teeth of the defense.    What could possibly go wrong. 

 

And 17 SB had Atlanta with a first down at the NE 22 after Jone's incredible catch.    All the Falcon had to do was take a knee 3 times and burn off the clock, then kick a field goal.     Atlanta would've won.    Dan Quinn needed to take control of his team and make sure that Kyle Shanahan made the right calls.    Quinn failed to do so.     

 

So,  even the best coaches can make monumental mistakes at the worst possible time.    

 

Just saying.....

 

Yeah Pete Carroll's call still baffles me to this day. I rank it as the worse call in SB history. I am giving it to Lynch no matter what, they still had a Timeout as well. The Falcons have Good RB's, just run it 3 times and kick a FG, game over. Sometimes common Sense isn't simple though  

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Good he should have been like that all along.

Maybe, maybe not. Most seem to forget that Chuck is only a five year head coach. He, just like all the head coaches now and in the past has to learn how to become better. Even the great Hall of fame coaches had a learning curve. They didn't start out like they knew everything. Some head coaches walk into a good thing (Gruden and Switzer) while some had to learn from experience. (Cower and Belichick) Just examples.

Even the great Lombardi started out 7-5 and 8-4 but ended his career at 7-4.

Now I am not making a comparison with Pagano to these great coaches I was using them as examples.

[southwest1]

45 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That would depend on two things. First, which team did we beat. If Pagano beat the Steelers or Raiders in the playoffs, then he deserves another year. If he beats a scrub like the Texans or Bengals though, then it depends on how he does in the next game. If he puts up a great game in a losing effort vs the Pats, I'd keep him. If he loses badly like 2014, then I'd still get rid of him, as we'd be no closer to a SB. Same vs the Steelers and Raiders in that scenario.

That's an intriguing thought Jared putting the Raiders in a must win AFC victory category. I realize that Jake Del Rio's team has a stellar o-line, Beast Mode, & Khalil Mack as an elite pass rusher, but INDY hasn't faced them enough in the Luck era to mandate a playoff victory against Derek Carr yet. Big Ben & Brady are different since Chewbacca has gone against those defenses more then once. 

 

I'm with you though on beating the Bengals doesn't mean a whole hades of a lot or impress me much. The Texans defense is respectable especially with Clowney clicking & coming into his own now. 

 

I respect your analysis Jared as always. I just can't mandate a victory against the Rayders [Chris Berman's voice] quite yet. A little too early on the Colt expectation level for me. 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, southwest1 said:

That's an intriguing thought Jared putting the Raiders in a must win AFC victory category. I realize that Jake Del Rio's team has a stellar o-line, Beast Mode, & Khalil Mack as an elite pass rusher, but INDY hasn't faced them enough in the Luck era to mandate a playoff victory against Derek Carr yet. Big Ben & Brady are different since Chewbacca has gone against those defenses more then once. 

 

I'm with you though on beating the Bengals doesn't mean a whole hades of a lot or impress me much. The Texans defense is respectable especially with Clowney clicking & coming into his own now. 

 

I respect your analysis Jared as always. I just can't mandate a victory against the Rayders [Chris Berman's voice] quite yet. A little too early on the Colt expectation level for me. 

That's fair enough. I consider the Raiders and Steelers as equals, both one tier below the Pats, who we need to beat to get to the SB. That's what the Raiders part of my analysis is based on.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's fair enough. I consider the Raiders and Steelers as equals, both one tier below the Pats, who we need to beat to get to the SB. That's what the Raiders part of my analysis is based on.

I think if we draw KC and beat them, that would be a great win as well. Like in 2013. I rank KC as the 4th best team in the AFC behind the Pats, Steelers, and Raiders. After that the rankings are a crapshoot, Texans and Colts both could be rated anywhere from 5-8 in the AFC IMO, depending on how good people think the Ravens, Titans, and Broncos will be. I don't like the direction the Bengals are headed and have never thought Dalton has had the IT factor nor do I think their Coach has the IT factor either. The Broncos have QB issues, they may be an 8-8 team??

[Jules]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's fair enough. I consider the Raiders and Steelers as equals, both one tier below the Pats, who we need to beat to get to the SB. That's what the Raiders part of my analysis is based on.

 

I can't put the Raiders as equals to the Steelers yet, no way no how. The Raiders have not done enough yet and their D was pretty lousy last year regardless of their offense. 

Steelers have been a thorn in our sides A LONG time........

 

It's Pats, then Steelers then everyone else to me. But when it comes to say the playoffs I will take a win over anyone out there.......don't care who it is. A playoff win to me is a playoff win.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think if we draw KC and beat them, that would be a great win as well. Like in 2013. I rank KC as the 4th best team in the AFC behind the Pats, Steelers, and Raiders. After that the rankings are a crapshoot, Texans and Colts both could be rated anywhere from 5-8 in the AFC IMO, depending on how good people think the Ravens, Titans, and Broncos will be. I don't like the direction the Bengals are headed and have never thought Dalton has had the IT factor nor do I think their Coach has the IT factor either. The Broncos have QB issues, they may be an 8-8 team??

I live in Colorado, and the Denver game had them playing both QBs (Lynch and Semien). When you have 2 QB's, you have none, or so the saying goes. The Bengals wouldn't be a huge win, and that was in a quote above I mentioned. The Chiefs would be interesting. They are the most underrated team in the whole NFL, IMO, and they have the best chance of upsetting the Pats IMO also in the playoffs. That would be a solid win as well for us.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Jules said:

 

I can't put the Raiders as equals to the Steelers yet, no way no how. The Raiders have not done enough yet and their D was pretty lousy last year regardless of their offense. 

Steelers have been a thorn in our sides A LONG time........

 

It's Pats, then Steelers then everyone else to me. But when it comes to say the playoffs I will take a win over anyone out there.......don't care who it is. A playoff win to me is a playoff win.

I think Carr is good enough to put them on the Steelers level. I may be, however, the only person on this board who thinks Carr is better than Luck, so that goes without saying. A playoff win is a playoff win, however, if you continually lose to the top teams in the AFC, then we'll just continue to be one and done or just make it to the divisional round or AFC Championship round on occasion and never the SB. We'll have to beat them at some point, or Luck's career will be a waste and the amazing opportunity at getting another SB with another once in a generation QB will go down the drain. Time is ticking.

[Jules]

People always harp on the Pats but deep down my most hated team is often Pittsburgh.

 

I mean the Pats have stomped our butts a lot at times yes and it has gotten even worse since Peyton left, but we did have a mini run over them in 2005-2006. And then we beat them again in 2008, 2009.

 

Steelers? I feel like rarely we beat them.......rarely. I can remember the regular season win in 2005 but then we got our hearts broken in the playoffs. We all know about 1995. And in 2008 we beat them in Pittsburgh and I was never so happy in my life.

 

Even if we beat the Steelers in the regular season it would MAKE MY YEAR.

 

We get Pittsburgh again this year too, geeezzzz............

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Jules said:

People always harp on the Pats but deep down my most hated team is often Pittsburgh.

 

I mean the Pats have stomped our butts a lot at times yes and it has gotten even worse since Peyton left, but we did have a mini run over them in 2005-2006. And then we beat them again in 2008, 2009.

 

Steelers? I feel like rarely we beat them.......rarely. I can remember the regular season win in 2005 but then we got our hearts broken in the playoffs. We all know about 1995. And in 2008 we beat them in Pittsburgh and I was never so happy in my life.

 

Even if we beat the Steelers in the regular season it would MAKE MY YEAR.

 

We get Pittsburgh again this year too, geeezzzz............

Lets beat them this year then! 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Jules said:

People always harp on the Pats but deep down my most hated team is often Pittsburgh.

 

I mean the Pats have stomped our butts a lot at times yes and it has gotten even worse since Peyton left, but we did have a mini run over them in 2005-2006. And then we beat them again in 2008, 2009.

 

Steelers? I feel like rarely we beat them.......rarely. I can remember the regular season win in 2005 but then we got our hearts broken in the playoffs. We all know about 1995. And in 2008 we beat them in Pittsburgh and I was never so happy in my life.

 

Even if we beat the Steelers in the regular season it would MAKE MY YEAR.

 

We get Pittsburgh again this year too, geeezzzz............

Yeah I hate those dirty scoundrels  

[Jules]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

I think Carr is good enough to put them on the Steelers level. I may be, however, the only person on this board who thinks Carr is better than Luck, so that goes without saying. A playoff win is a playoff win, however, if you continually lose to the top teams in the AFC, then we'll just continue to be one and done or just make it to the divisional round or AFC Championship round on occasion and never the SB. We'll have to beat them at some point, or Luck's career will be a waste and the amazing opportunity at getting another SB with another once in a generation QB will go down the drain. Time is ticking.

 

I been high on the Raiders since last year, but at the same I wonder how good they are at times since they won soooooo many close games and had those comebacks last year. That D also has to improve too. The offense has been fun and exciting though with Carr so I agree they have serious potential. But sometimes teams that get those close wins a lot like they did at times last year can level out a year later unless it was the old Manning Colts.

 

Carr looked good yeah, but I don't think he has proven as much as Luck has yet either.

 

I have seen a ton of people picking the Raiders this offseason and they are getting a tad over hyped. I HOPE they honestly do live up to the expectations since competition for NE is good no matter who it is. But they are sorta in this Titans category this offseason with insane expectations. I have seen many inflated records and expectations predicted for TN and Oakland. 

[Jules]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I hate those dirty scoundrels  

 

They just make my skin crawl........omg.......and playing IN PITTSBURGH is the worst. They get those terrible towels waving and everyone goes nuts since OMG IT'S PITTSBURGH AND THEY GOT SO MUCH HISTORY.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Jules said:

 

They just make my skin crawl........omg.......and playing IN PITTSBURGH is the worst. They get those terrible towels waving and everyone goes nuts since OMG IT'S PITTSBURGH AND THEY GOT SO MUCH HISTORY.

TBH, the fans in Pitt are much better than the ones in Philly. Same state and completely different type of fanbase.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

I been high on the Raiders since last year, but at the same I wonder how good they are at times since they won soooooo many close games and had those comebacks last year. That D also has to improve too. The offense has been fun and exciting though with Carr so I agree they have serious potential. But sometimes teams that get those close wins a lot like they did at times last year can level out a year later unless it was the old Manning Colts.

 

Carr looked good yeah, but I don't think he has proven as much as Luck has yet either.

 

I have seen a ton of people picking the Raiders this offseason and they are getting a tad over hyped. I HOPE they honestly do live up to the expectations since competition for NE is good no matter who it is. But they are sorta in this Titans category this offseason with insane expectations. I have seen many inflated records and expectations predicted for TN and Oakland. 

Yeah I cant put Carr ahead of Luck either. Carr hasn't won a Playoff game, Luck has already won 3 and has had the better career to date. Regarding close games, that happens a lot with teams. One season they win 75% of them, then they lose those same type of games. We lost several last season including both Houston games that could've easily went our way - that was the Division.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

They just make my skin crawl........omg.......and playing IN PITTSBURGH is the worst. They get those terrible towels waving and everyone goes nuts since OMG IT'S PITTSBURGH AND THEY GOT SO MUCH HISTORY.

Not to be a whiner but they always have the REFS on their side as well. It's always been like that dating back to the 70's vs Dallas - they got a couple of huge bogus calls in those SB's, then against us in 1995, then the Seahawks getting screwed bigtime in 2005.

[southwest1]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

A SB isn't guaranteed, and we may need every year of Luck's career to pull one off. Pagano shouldn't have an unlimited timeframe to get better, and even you would admit that. A decision needs to be made one way or another so we'll have that chance to win a SB. If Pagano is our guy, I'm fine with it if it clicks with him. If not, then get someone else who can while Luck is young enough to win one. A lot of people assume on this forum believe Luck will play close to as long as Manning, but he'll probably play less because of so many injuries. We probably have 8-10 years max with Luck, counting this year.

Thank you for having the confidence to say what I bolded Jared. It always bothers me when certain segments of the forum think we hate Pags or are somehow shortchanging him. We're not. We just don't think that championship door is open ended with no benchmarks or results attached. We have nothing against Chuck personally. We just wanna win hardware like yesterday & we are growing impatient. Okay, I'm growing impatient. 

 

That is both a blessing & a curse isn't it? Following Manning somebody who was healthy & a playoff contributor almost yr in yr out. We get spoiled & think all INDY QBs can & should play at that same level of excellence. I keep having to remind myself of that. Manning & Luck are not the same field general despite wearing the same uniform. I'm with you on this, we can't keep thinking there's always next yr. The clock is ticking & Andrew ain't getting any younger. 

 

Also, why do some fans automatically think that with a new HC Luck will automatically regress? I get that new coordinators can set some development off kilter somewhat, but at some point, change can be a breath of fresh air right?  I just never understand why some fans are paralyzed with fear over the unknown. That always baffles me. 

 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

Thank you for having the confidence to say what I bolded Jared. It always bothers me when certain segments of the forum think we hate Pags or are somehow shortchanging him. We're not. We just don't think that championship door is open ended with no benchmarks or results attached. We have nothing against Chuck personally. We just wanna win hardware like yesterday & we are growing impatient. Okay, I'm growing impatient. 

 

That is both a blessing & a curse isn't it? Following Manning somebody who was healthy & a playoff contributor almost yr in yr out. We get spoiled & think all INDY QBs can & should play at that same level of excellence. I keep having to remind myself of that. Manning & Luck are not the same field general despite wearing the same uniform. I'm with you on this, we can't keep thinking there's always next yr. The clock is ticking & Andrew ain't getting any younger. 

 

Also, why do some fans automatically think that with a new HC Luck will automatically regress? I get that new coordinators can set some development off kilter somewhat, but at some point, change can be a breath of fresh air right?  I just never understand why some fans are paralyzed with fear over the unknown. That always baffles me. 

 

I agree. The worst thing that can happen is we remain mediocre or a one and done team. At some point, you have to take that leap of faith and decide what to do with him. Give him this year, and evaluate. If he can't get become a solid head coach in six years, get someone who can for the rest of Luck's career. People won't admit it, but time is against us. Brady and Ben are still playing, Carr is becoming a very good QB and will play as long as Luck, and the division is rapidly improving. We have to keep up, whether that means keeping or firing Pagano, we have to figure out a plan, and execute it.

[southwest1]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I agree. The worst thing that can happen is we remain mediocre or a one and done team. At some point, you have to take that leap of faith and decide what to do with him. Give him this year, and evaluate. If he can't get become a solid head coach in six years, get someone who can for the rest of Luck's career. People won't admit it, but time is against us. Brady and Ben are still playing, Carr is becoming a very good QB and will play as long as Luck, and the division is rapidly improving. We have to keep up, whether that means keeping or firing Pagano, we have to figure out a plan, and execute it.

Bingo! Our competition in the AFC South is closing the gap & INDY can't act like we're gonna win our division like in yrs past from say 2004-2009. If Deshaun Watson lights it up early for Houston with that defense, we're in for a dogfight down the stretch. Bill O'Brien is gonna insert him sooner rather than later given how they went up to get him in the draft. Savage's days in Texas are numbered. Everybody knows that. Mariota scrambles well & has a decent arm. The Jags are the Jags. Formidable D; Lousy QB in Bortles. Please, please, please owner Shahid Khan sign that train wreck  to a $100,000,000 dollar deal so that club goes nowhere for 10-12 yrs. Come on Santa SW1 has been a good boy so far this yr man. Just saying. 

 

The other thing that scares me is this. What if Pagano has say a tremendous season of let's be generous 12-4 or 13-3 & Jimmy gives Chuck another longterm extension? Uh oh. I'm all for rewarding a coach if a pattern of success warrants it, but huge strides in the playoff success don't just magically happen overnight either. Putting too much stalk into a miraculous season is equally dangerous too. And before anybody even says it, Chuck Pagano isn't  Marty Schottenheimer 14-2 San Diego yr either.

 

 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

29 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Thank you for having the confidence to say what I bolded Jared. It always bothers me when certain segments of the forum think we hate Pags or are somehow shortchanging him. We're not. We just don't think that championship door is open ended with no benchmarks or results attached. We have nothing against Chuck personally. We just wanna win hardware like yesterday & we are growing impatient. Okay, I'm growing impatient. 

 

That is both a blessing & a curse isn't it? Following Manning somebody who was healthy & a playoff contributor almost yr in yr out. We get spoiled & think all INDY QBs can & should play at that same level of excellence. I keep having to remind myself of that. Manning & Luck are not the same field general despite wearing the same uniform. I'm with you on this, we can't keep thinking there's always next yr. The clock is ticking & Andrew ain't getting any younger. 

 

Also, why do some fans automatically think that with a new HC Luck will automatically regress? I get that new coordinators can set some development off kilter somewhat, but at some point, change can be a breath of fresh air right?  I just never understand why some fans are paralyzed with fear over the unknown. That always baffles me. 

 

On the other side of the coin why do some automatically think a new head coach would be the answer and all of a sudden a super bowl would just roll in?

We can all look at this with 100 different views but in reality no one knows.

Building a super bowl team does not just fall on the head coach. No does it fall on the QB. Neither the head coach or QB can be successful without the talented players and coaches around them.

We can all have opinions but none of them have the answer.

I said in an earlier post that Pagano is a new head coach. No head coach has started out knowing exactly how to be a head coach. It comes with experience. There is no need for me to name any examples but none of them has started out any better than Pagano has without walking into a super bowl ready team.

Pagano has the chance to show what he can do but there will be some that will expect it this season and reality tells us that is not happening because of the rebuild we are going through.

[Smitto]

I like all the optimism here, I don't think there is a "tougher" Pagano. I think this is the same Pagano attitude wise as before, he never seemed like the type to take #### from his players in the first place. 

 

I expect him to be more free willing to do what he wants with this team though, now that he doesn't have that resistance from Grigson. 

 

I always say if you start shouting at grown men who probably make more money than you do they're just gonna stop listening to you... Pagano's attitude is exactly what this team needs, he just needs to coach em up now. 

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Bingo! Our competition in the AFC South is closing the gap & INDY can't act like we're gonna win our division like in yrs past from say 2004-2009. If Deshaun Watson lights it up early for Houston with that defense, we're in for a dogfight down the stretch. Bill O'Brien is gonna insert him sooner rather than later given how they went up to get him in the draft. Savage's days in Texas are numbered. Everybody knows that. Mariota scrambles well & has a decent arm. The Jags are the Jags. Formidable D; Lousy QB in Bortles. Please, please, please owner Shahid Khan sign that train wreck  to a $100,000,000 dollar deal so that club goes nowhere for 10-12 yrs. Come on Santa SW1 has been a good boy so far this yr man. Just saying. 

 

The other thing that scares me is this. What if Pagano has say a tremendous season of let's be generous 12-4 or 13-3 & Jimmy gives Chuck another longterm extension? Uh oh. I'm all for rewarding a coach if a pattern of success warrants it, but huge strides in the playoff success don't just magically happen overnight either. Putting too much stalk into a miraculous season is equally dangerous too. And before anybody even says it, Chuck Pagano isn't  Marty Schottenheimer 14-2 San Diego yr either.

 

 

 

 

Scares you? So if Chuck does have a good year you still want him gone?  You don't want him to be successful.  Even if he signs an extension what does that have to do with Irsay if he wanted him gone? Irsay fired Grigson and paid him. It's not like Irsay don't have the money.

Oh by the way, how many more years of coaching did Schottenheimer have than Pagano when he was fired? Treating Pagano like he should be as good or better than other head coaches with many more years experience is short sighted IMO.

All this talk about other teams don't amount to nothing if the Colts build the right team no matter who the head coach is.

[southwest1]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

On the other side of the coin why do some automatically think a new head coach would be the answer and all of a sudden a super bowl would just roll in?

We can all look at this with 100 different views but in reality no one knows.

Building a super bowl team does not just fall on the head coach. No does it fall on the QB. Neither the head coach or QB can be successful without the talented players and coaches around them.

We can all have opinions but none of them have the answer.

I said in an earlier post that Pagano is a new head coach. No head coach has started out knowing exactly how to be a head coach. It comes with experience. There is no need for me to name any examples but none of them has started out any better than Pagano has without walking into a super bowl ready team.

Pagano has the chance to show what he can do but there will be some that will expect it this season and reality tells us that is not happening because of the rebuild we are going through.

It's not that I anticipate hardware to roll in with a new voice in the locker room CC1. It's just that after 2 contracts have been given to the same head coach with 1 AFC Championship appearance, I expect better production since 2012. Also, I don't buy the argument that other forum members have made in the past [not you] that our former GM Ryan Grigson stifled Pagano's ability to mold & lead the team since Chuck arrived in INDY. I will grant you that according to former punter Pat McAfee, Ryan was belligerent, condescending, not a unifying team builder, & self centered...Obviously, not an ideal work environment to thrive in. And yes, Chuck has little control over what free agents or bodies off the CFL street Grigson provides Pagano to work with. However, Chuck is an adult who can speak up, voice his concerns, & let his thoughts be known to the owner & GM. He wasn't handcuffed as much as some folks probably think he was. 

 

Jason loves to make the point endlessly that INDY's secondary other that Vontae Davis sucked. Okay, even if I accept that. Explain to me why Pagano who coached Ray Lewis in Baltimore cannot turn INDY's LBs into a force to be reckoned with then? Usually, a guy who was hired for the defensive prowess doesn't struggle on both the backside [secondary] & front side [pass rushers & run stoppers] together for almost 5 yrs. What did Chuck say at his 1st press conference again? Oh yeah, Let's hunt. That dog don't hunt. 

 

I understand that no new head coach knows exactly what they're doing in their new capacity. I like Chuck as a person & pillar of the community. I'm just not convinced that he can take us where we need to go. It's where I'm at.