The Chuck Pagano you've been asking for?

[Yoshinator]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

I see it different. 

The Colts become average because the right players were not taken at the position the Colts picked. There were players taken after the Colts pick that contributed to their teams and helped keep their team winning. The strategy you seem to think builds a winning team does not compute into wins.

You seem to think drafting in the NFL is like the NBA or a fantasy football team. It simply does not work in the NFL. The key is finding the right player no matter what position you draft in. It has worked that way for the best GMs in the league and will continue. If a GM can't do that they lose their job.

Well, those players just weren't there where we were drafting. Maybe 1 or 2 good choices that could of made a difference, but our team needed better players than what our draft position allowed, and now we are suffering the price for winning too early. As bad as Grigson was, he would of had to be flawless to pick the exact right player left in the bottom rounds to change this team that quick instead of having 5-10 options that could of changed this team for the better. We were always destined to win, Luck just never had a learning curve. At first it was a blessing, now it's a curse, as we only had bottom round players to build around him as a rebuilding team. We were too big for our bridges and tried to contend with the Pats before we were ready, now we are paying the price. When you are rebuilding, you need to have high draft picks to succeed in the long run. There are exceptions, but most will fail if they don't have this opportunity. Even Luck couldn't overcome it, and I can't think of any combination of picks we could of had in the draft that would of put us over the top that were available to us. If you can, I'd like to hear them CrazyColt.

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Well, those players just weren't there where we were drafting. Maybe 1 or 2 good choices that could of made a difference, but our team needed better players than what our draft position allowed, and now we are suffering the price for winning too early. As bad as Grigson was, he would of had to be flawless to pick the exact right player left in the bottom rounds to change this team that quick instead of having 5-10 options that could of changed this team for the better. We were always destined to win, Luck just never had a learning curve. At first it was a blessing, now it's a curse, as we only had bottom round players to build around him as a rebuilding team. We were too big for our bridges and tried to contend with the Pats before we were ready, now we are paying the price. When you are rebuilding, you need to have high draft picks to succeed in the long run. There are exceptions, but most will fail if they don't have this opportunity. Even Luck couldn't overcome it, and I can't think of any combination of picks we could of had in the draft that would of put us over the top that were available to us. If you can, I'd like to hear them CrazyColt.

You still don't get what I am saying.

The bottom line is it is not the position a GM picks. It is the players taken. If there is a player you want higher then trade up. If there is not a player a GM thinks will contribute at that pick, trade down. It has worked for the best GMs in the league and is not changing.

Another key is signing the right free agent when one becomes available.

No GM in the league can snap their finger and find the players needed to fill all their spots. Those that can do better than another GM will always be at the top.   There are only 32 positions for GMs. There is only 10 to 15 GMs in the league that can continue to make it work and even those odds go down over time.      

[Yoshinator]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

You still don't get what I am saying.

The bottom line is it is not the position a GM picks. It is the players taken. If there is a player you want higher then trade up. If there is not a player a GM thinks will contribute at that pick, trade down. It has worked for the best GMs in the league and is not changing.

Another key is signing the right free agent when one becomes available.

No GM in the league can snap their finger and find the players needed to fill all their spots. Those that can do better than another GM will always be at the top.   There are only 32 positions for GMs. There is only 10 to 15 GMs in the league that can continue to make it work and even those odds go down over time.      

I get what you are saying CrazyOne, but we are still at a huge disadvantage. A rebuilding team having to try and build a new roster from scratch with picks in the 20s every round. Those picks only have so much value trading up and you have to have a trade partner to trade. We were put in a spot where we achieved early and never got to be in a position to put premium talent around Luck. That has been what I have been saying all along. It stinks, and there's nothing we can do about it, but it what it is. Grigson, for all his faults, had the odds against him in the draft every year but 2012 while trying to manage a new roster, and it's probably why we traded for Vontae Davis and Trent Richardson. Picks in the 20s just don't have nearly as much value as picks in the teens or top 10. You can always trade up, but it costs a lot, you can trade down, but you need a trade partner. You also have very little room for error the lower you are, because more of the top players are taken. It is what it is. Hopefully Ballard can turn it around, it looks like he had a good first draft and some players fell to us, however it also supports my theory that a middle round pick is much more beneficial than a pick in the 20s, and we would of never got the players we did this year with a pick in the 20s.

[crazycolt1]

56 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I get what you are saying CrazyOne, but we are still at a huge disadvantage. A rebuilding team having to try and build a new roster from scratch with picks in the 20s every round. Those picks only have so much value trading up and you have to have a trade partner to trade. We were put in a spot where we achieved early and never got to be in a position to put premium talent around Luck. That has been what I have been saying all along. It stinks, and there's nothing we can do about it, but it what it is. Grigson, for all his faults, had the odds against him in the draft every year but 2012 while trying to manage a new roster, and it's probably why we traded for Vontae Davis and Trent Richardson. Picks in the 20s just don't have nearly as much value as picks in the teens or top 10. You can always trade up, but it costs a lot, you can trade down, but you need a trade partner. You also have very little room for error the lower you are, because more of the top players are taken. It is what it is. Hopefully Ballard can turn it around, it looks like he had a good first draft and some players fell to us, however it also supports my theory that a middle round pick is much more beneficial than a pick in the 20s, and we would of never got the players we did this year with a pick in the 20s.

All you are doing is making an issue over the way things are for the Colts and just about every team in the NFL.

Players are paid to play their best. If it's not good enough they lose their jobs. This 'tanking' or 'sucking for Luck' is horse dung. Fans want to see the team doing their best and wherever they end up is the way it is. IMO it is pure nonsense for me to fork over any money to a team that don't play their best. If any player don't give their best effort I don't want them on the team.

Respectfully I think you are making an issue where the issue is reality in the NFL.

 

[Jason_]

On 8/16/2017 at 0:41 AM, GoColts8818 said:

1.  I am pretty sure Andrew Luck can feel comfortable about making the team.  That's said as a joke as I get the bigger point.

 

2.  The Pagano I want to see is one who gets his teams to reduce pentaly flags (which they clearly didn't Sunday), doesn't make crucial coaching mistakes like calling a time out when you are driving on Detroit to win the game or the 4th and 2 fake punt with a guy who had never practiced it, and has a team who is ready to play when the game starts and doesn't have to get down 21-3 before they start playing.  

 

Those things remain to be seen and frankly outside of the pentalies is going to be hard to see in the pre-season so I can't really say if he's the Chuck I want to see or not.

 

Just because Whalen hadn't practiced the play specifically lined up at Center does not mean he did not know exactly what the point of the play was.  Griff Whalen was a career special teamer so he would have absolutely practiced that play just as often as everyone else on the team, he was just not lined up as the Center.  Your statement makes it sound like Pagano just pulled some random guy from the squad who was unfamiliar with the play but that's hardly the case.  it was still a poor play call but I have no objection to taking a chance on something different from time to time.  But Pagano has to be able to count on his players to know situational football and at that moment, Griff Whalen screwed up.  

[Dark Superman]

Like him or not, Chuckie P is gone after this season.

He's not Ballard's 'Guy'

 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, J@son said:

 

Just because Whalen hadn't practiced the play specifically lined up at Center does not mean he did not know exactly what the point of the play was.  Griff Whalen was a career special teamer so he would have absolutely practiced that play just as often as everyone else on the team, he was just not lined up as the Center.  Your statement makes it sound like Pagano just pulled some random guy from the squad who was unfamiliar with the play but that's hardly the case.  it was still a poor play call but I have no objection to taking a chance on something different from time to time.  But Pagano has to be able to count on his players to know situational football and at that moment, Griff Whalen screwed up.  

The play would have worked had the ball not got snapped. That one mistake was the difference between a bonehead play to a brilliant play. Even Belichick said the play called was a great play had it been executed right.

[Jason_]

32 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The play would have worked had the ball not got snapped. That one mistake was the difference between a bonehead play to a brilliant play. Even Belichick said the play called was a great play had it been executed right.

 

exactly, and Griff spending the majority of his career on special teams means that he should have known the play as well as anyone else that was on the field at the time.  

[Jason_]

On 8/16/2017 at 4:04 AM, southwest1 said:

 

 

Jason loves to make the point endlessly that INDY's secondary other that Vontae Davis sucked. Okay, even if I accept that. Explain to me why Pagano who coached Ray Lewis in Baltimore cannot turn INDY's LBs into a force to be reckoned with then? Usually, a guy who was hired for the defensive prowess doesn't struggle on both the backside [secondary] & front side [pass rushers & run stoppers] together for almost 5 yrs. What did Chuck say at his 1st press conference again? Oh yeah, Let's hunt. That dog don't hunt. 

 

You can't hunt when all of the ammo you've been given to hunt with are blanks.

[Jason_]

On 8/16/2017 at 4:04 AM, southwest1 said:

However, Chuck is an adult who can speak up, voice his concerns, & let his thoughts be known to the owner & GM. He wasn't handcuffed as much as some folks probably think he was. 

 

You can speak up, voice your concerns and let your thoughts be known until you're blue in the face, but when you're doing that to two people who both outrank you in the chain of command, ultimately they're still going to get their way if that's what they want.  

[CR91]

Pagano is not happy with the team that's for sure. This last interview was about as real as it gets. No coach talk

[ThaCaliColt]

On 8/15/2017 at 4:15 PM, Superman said:

I noticed how he got after Rogers after that mistake also. I don't think it's the first time he's done it; he gave a similar talking to to someone during the Raiders game last year, I'll have to go back and figure out who it was. (And I know I saw him do it multiple times to multiple players that game.)

 

But his comments about no one should feel safe got my attention, for sure. He seemed ticked off in general during that presser. And he went into his 'we have to cut down to 53 soon, and the players we keep have to be tough, smart...' And I'm thinking, 'right Chuck, we know, horseshoe guys who love the game, good teammates, the same ol' stuff you always say this time of year...'

 

And then he said 'and they have to be available. They have to practice. ... Injured or not, I don't think ANYONE should feel safe right now.' 

 

And I went:

 

Because that put Dorsett on notice, IMO. And after they just cut Langford specifically because he couldn't get back on the field as fast as they wanted, there's no reason for anyone to think they're above being cut for any reason, especially the players who have a history of missing practice with nagging injuries (like Dorsett, who missed most of the offseason program with hamstring issues). 

 

These comments also came on the heels of Pagano praising Bug Howard for pushing himself during last week's practices, when other players were on the sideline because they don't know if they can go that hard, in so many words.

 

Now, talk is cheap. Pagano's words seemed urgent to me, but I don't think the staff treated the game with that kind of urgency. We'll see how they respond Saturday.

I'm waiting for these guys to play as though their jobs are on the line...I sincerely hope Pagano is capable of instilling that kind of fear, because I've never once even remotely had that impression...

[Colts_Fan12]

11 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

 

First of all Jesus Christ has nothing to do with the NFL!

The top team at this time is New England. They have low picks in every round and continue to field a team that is always in the mix. They may not have the best starting team in the league but their depth is always good enough to pull wins out. They have that one player every season that comes out of nowhere and makes THE play needed.

 It's the player picked, not the position the  player is picked.

You are so possessed thinking picking high in the draft will solve our issues when that is not the case.

The GMs job is to find players that contribute no matter what position that is dealt to him.

Our best center in years was undrafted and working at a electrical supply store. He was a walk on for the Ravens and was cut. I think Jeff Saturday was his name.

 

They also have the best grad coach in the league we do not actually far from it 

[Two_pound]

I haven't read all these responses but 2 did catch my eye. the one about being 6 years into Luck's career and still no sb. Well, it took nine years for Peyton to get there.(on a side note, when the Colts drafted Luck I put on this forum that Luck won't get to a sb any faster than Peyton did,that prediction is over half way there!)(also, I am very happy for Peyton that he went to a team run by a car salesman and made 2 sb's in 4 years). The other one was about waiting for ben and cheaty to retire because we can't beat them. Over the last 40 years the Colts haven't been able to beat the steelers no matter who played qb. We lost to niel O'Donnell, Bubby Brister, Jim Miller, Kordell Stewert, Mark Malone, it didn't matter. So maybe qb play doesn't have alot to do with it. And remember the year we almost lost to the Pats when they had the non-nfl caliber Matt Cassell out there.

[southwest1]

8 hours ago, J@son said:

 

You can't hunt when all of the ammo you've been given to hunt with are blanks.

I will concede that Grigson didn't equip Pagano with decent secondary players minus Vontae. However, I don't accept the notion that every LB we had on the Colts roster sucked or was substandard since 2012. Jerrell Freeman had his moments while he was in INDY & so did Erik Walden. 

 

I'm sorry Jason but not every LB Pagano coached was devoid of talent. That's not true. 

[southwest1]

8 hours ago, J@son said:

 

You can speak up, voice your concerns and let your thoughts be known until you're blue in the face, but when you're doing that to two people who both outrank you in the chain of command, ultimately they're still going to get their way if that's what they want.  

I will agree with the premise of your post that typically owners & GMs have more clout than head coaches on average. However, let's not pretend that Pagano was never listened to or never given a draft pick he wanted shall we when INDY was on the draft clock. 

 

I find it fascinating how some Pagano supporters like to perpetuate this myth or belief that Chuck just had to follow orders from higher ups & that Chuck was never given a player he was passionate for. Grigson is gone now & Chuck is still around so obviously Jimmy didn't ignore his suggestions or recommendations completely. 

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

 

 

I find it fascinating how some Pagano supporters like to perpetuate this myth or belief that Chuck just had to follow orders from higher ups 

 

Is that not how things work in the real world? 

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

I will concede that Grigson didn't equip Pagano with decent secondary players minus Vontae. However, I don't accept the notion that every LB we had on the Colts roster sucked or was substandard since 2012. Jerrell Freeman had his moments while he was in INDY & so did Erik Walden. 

 

I'm sorry Jason but not every LB Pagano coached was devoid of talent. That's not true. 

 

Gimme some names of these talented LBs chuck has had to work with? 

[southwest1]

10 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Gimme some names of these talented LBs chuck has had to work with? 

This was your previous response Jason. 

 

"You can't hunt when all of the ammo you've been given to hunt with are blanks."

 

Obviously, when a person believes that the defensive talent was shooting blanks that means they had zero talent right? I provided you with 2 LBs: Jerrell Freeman & Erik Walden. 

 

Why is it my responsibly to appease your definition of talent BTW? I know what you're going to claim. That they weren't elite. They did have some quality sacks while in INDY & isn't it Chuck's job to enhance their skill set? I think so. 

 

[southwest1]

21 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Is that not how things work in the real world? 

Once again Jason you're wrong. Pagano supporters always act like the world is out to get Chuck & the man just can't catch a break. Please...

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Once again Jason you're wrong. Pagano supporters always act like the world is out to get Chuck & the man just can't catch a break. Please...

He's just a bad coach lol actually we will just call him average and imo that's worse cause then he hangs around too long and never gets fired cause he always does just enough to squeak by ex Marvin Lewis 

[southwest1]

22 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

He's just a bad coach lol actually we will just call him average and imo that's worse cause then he hangs around too long and never gets fired cause he always does just enough to squeak by ex Marvin Lewis 

It is starting to feel like Pagano is the new Lewis. I agree 100% 

 

The excuses just keep piling up: Our former GM gave him absolutely no talent [at every position.] Okay, I added that parenthesis section for affect like artistic license because Pagano supporters wanna blame Grigson for everything. LOL! Then, they'll say this was his first head coaching gig. Give him more time. After this season, he'll have served 5 yrs as the sideline patroller in chief here. Okay yes, his 1st yr was preoccupied getting cancer treatment. So, in 4 yrs, you can't evaluate a coach? Seriously? We start out slow & we still have a problem with false start glitches in our own stadium. That's a huge problem. Next, they'll claim that our new GM & HC need time to gel. That's what this season is for & typically new GMs get to bring in a new coach. Yeah, I know. The owner has to sign off on it, but honestly, Chuck is just a placeholder until a better candidate becomes available we all know that. Finally, fans who can't let go will give you some nonsense of team continuity as an excuse to never part ways with Chuck. INDY isn't the Steelers with 3 HCs & Championship coaches destined to win hardware. INDY will be fine without Pagano & his position isn't a lifetime appointment. I've seen all I need to see. 

 

Thanks for your support CF12. I appreciate it. 

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

It is starting to feel like Pagano is the new Lewis. I agree 100% 

 

The excuses just keep piling up: Our former GM gave him absolutely no talent [at every position.] Okay, I added that parenthesis section for affect like artistic license because Pagano supporters wanna blame Grigson for everything. LOL! Then, they'll say this was his first head coaching gig. Give him more time. After this season, he'll have served 5 yrs as the sideline patroller in chief here. Okay yes, his 1st yr was preoccupied getting cancer treatment. So, in 4 yrs, you can't evaluate a coach? Seriously? We start out slow & we still have a problem with false start glitches in our own stadium. That's a huge problem. Next, they'll claim that our new GM & HC need time to gel. That's what this season is for & typically new GMs get to bring in a new coach. Yeah, I know. The owner has to sign off on it, but honestly, Chuck is just a placeholder until a better candidate becomes available we all know that. Finally, fans who can't let go will give you some nonsense of team continuity as an excuse to never part ways with Chuck. INDY isn't the Steelers with 3 HCs & Championship coaches destined to win hardware. INDY will be fine without Pagano & his position isn't a lifetime appointment. I've seen all I need to see. 

 

Thanks for your support CF12. I appreciate it. 

Why do you keep watching? 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, southwest1 said:

It is starting to feel like Pagano is the new Lewis. I agree 100% 

 

The excuses just keep piling up: Our former GM gave him absolutely no talent [at every position.] Okay, I added that parenthesis section for affect like artistic license because Pagano supporters wanna blame Grigson for everything. LOL! Then, they'll say this was his first head coaching gig. Give him more time. After this season, he'll have served 5 yrs as the sideline patroller in chief here. Okay yes, his 1st yr was preoccupied getting cancer treatment. So, in 4 yrs, you can't evaluate a coach? Seriously? We start out slow & we still have a problem with false start glitches in our own stadium. That's a huge problem. Next, they'll claim that our new GM & HC need time to gel. That's what this season is for & typically new GMs get to bring in a new coach. Yeah, I know. The owner has to sign off on it, but honestly, Chuck is just a placeholder until a better candidate becomes available we all know that. Finally, fans who can't let go will give you some nonsense of team continuity as an excuse to never part ways with Chuck. INDY isn't the Steelers with 3 HCs & Championship coaches destined to win hardware. INDY will be fine without Pagano & his position isn't a lifetime appointment. I've seen all I need to see. 

 

Thanks for your support CF12. I appreciate it. 

Cowher took 14 years to win a super bowl and then Tomlin stepped in and won one with a Cowher built team. Using the Steeler coaches as an example is not a good example not when 4 of those super bowls come from Noll. Take Noll's record out and the Steelers record with super bowls is not that impressive from then on.

[Jason_]

5 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Once again Jason you're wrong. Pagano supporters always act like the world is out to get Chuck & the man just can't catch a break. Please...

 

I'm not wrong. In the worplace, if push comes to shove the person higher up the chain of command is going to win. Period. Chuck pagano is never going to be able to overrule jim irsay on any decision that involves the Indianapolis colts. Thats how things work in the real world. 

 

And no, I'm not acting like the man cant catch a break or that the whole world is out to get him. In simply pointing out that yes, he did have to follow orders. He definitely got his input, but if therr was a clash then he did NOT have final say. Grigson did. 

[Jason_]

5 hours ago, southwest1 said:

This was your previous response Jason. 

 

"You can't hunt when all of the ammo you've been given to hunt with are blanks."

 

Obviously, when a person believes that the defensive talent was shooting blanks that means they had zero talent right? I provided you with 2 LBs: Jerrell Freeman & Erik Walden. 

 

Why is it my responsibly to appease your definition of talent BTW? I know what you're going to claim. That they weren't elite. They did have some quality sacks while in INDY & isn't it Chuck's job to enhance their skill set? I think so. 

 

 

LOL.  Yes it is chucks job to enhance their skill sets. Btw, the 2 guys you mentioned are perfect examples of that. Did Erik Walden not have hisb3 best seasons playing for chuck? He has 32 career sacks. 23 of,those came while playing for chuck.

 

Jerrel Freeman you say? You mean the guy that 31 other teams didnt view as worthy of a practice squad position who now is a household name making multimillion dollars in chicago only after playing for chuck? 

 

they OBVIOUSLY improved while playing for chuck. So...whats your beef again? 

[Colts_Fan12]

5 hours ago, southwest1 said:

It is starting to feel like Pagano is the new Lewis. I agree 100% 

 

The excuses just keep piling up: Our former GM gave him absolutely no talent [at every position.] Okay, I added that parenthesis section for affect like artistic license because Pagano supporters wanna blame Grigson for everything. LOL! Then, they'll say this was his first head coaching gig. Give him more time. After this season, he'll have served 5 yrs as the sideline patroller in chief here. Okay yes, his 1st yr was preoccupied getting cancer treatment. So, in 4 yrs, you can't evaluate a coach? Seriously? We start out slow & we still have a problem with false start glitches in our own stadium. That's a huge problem. Next, they'll claim that our new GM & HC need time to gel. That's what this season is for & typically new GMs get to bring in a new coach. Yeah, I know. The owner has to sign off on it, but honestly, Chuck is just a placeholder until a better candidate becomes available we all know that. Finally, fans who can't let go will give you some nonsense of team continuity as an excuse to never part ways with Chuck. INDY isn't the Steelers with 3 HCs & Championship coaches destined to win hardware. INDY will be fine without Pagano & his position isn't a lifetime appointment. I've seen all I need to see. 

 

Thanks for your support CF12. I appreciate it. 

Totally agree! I have had enough pagano he has had plenty of time to show what he can do and guess what it's not much lol

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Cowher took 14 years to win a super bowl and then Tomlin stepped in and won one with a Cowher built team. Using the Steeler coaches as an example is not a good example not when 4 of those super bowls come from Noll. Take Noll's record out and the Steelers record with super bowls is not that impressive from then on.

Will you cut this crap off the Steelers are still a threat almost every year stop acting like Tomlin is some scrub like chuck 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Will you cut this crap off the Steelers are still a threat almost every year stop acting like Tomlin is some scrub like chuck 

Why do you over react? Now you are putting your own twist into what I said.

No where did I say Tomlin was scrub but all you want to do is be argumentative with adding fuel to your own fire.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why do you over react? Now you are putting your own twist into what I said.

No where did I say Tomlin was scrub but all you want to do is be argumentative with adding fuel to your own fire.

Your sitting here trying to dismiss his accomplishments to prove your point 

[Two_pound]

Cowher had no head coaching experience at any level(not even high school) before getting the steeler job. Tomlin was 34 with very little coaching experience of any kind before getting the steeler job. Don't compare the Colts to the Steelers, things obviously work differently in pittsburgh. Remember, Jimmy Haslem worked closely with the Rooney family for years with the Steelers before getting the Browns, he must not have learned much because we all see how thats working out in cleveland!!!!

[Jason_]

20 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Your sitting here trying to dismiss his accomplishments to prove your point 

 

Which is EXACTLY the same thing you do with Pagano.  Irony, right? 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

Which is EXACTLY the same thing you do with Pagano.  Irony, right? 

Please tell me what he has done besides one fluke season? Who has old chuck beat 

 

He gets his * handed to him by almost every contender in the league 

[DaColts85]

12 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Please tell me what he has done besides one fluke season? Who has old chuck beat 

 

He gets his * handed to him by almost every contender in the league 

????  

I am not huge on Pagano but that statement does not make sense.  He had 3 straight winning seasons.  And technically has never had a losing season either.  So what is the 1 fluke season you refer to?

[Colts_Fan12]

3 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

????  

I am not huge on Pagano but that statement does not make sense.  He had 3 straight winning seasons.  And technically has never had a losing season either.  So what is the 1 fluke season you refer to?

You can't just say "well he's had 3 wimning seasons he's a good coach!" When you struggle to beat great teams or even just compete with them there is a problem. Constantly getting blown out by great teams is not good and hell chuck even has his annual *** kicking from 1 2 or 3 dumpster teams.

[DaColts85]

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

You can't just say "well he's had 3 wimning seasons he's a good coach!" When you struggle to beat great teams or even just compete with them there is a problem. Constantly getting blown out by great teams is not good and hell chuck even has his annual *** kicking from 1 2 or 3 dumpster teams.

I have said many teams on this forum that I think Pagano is subpar for sure at game planning and adjustments.  Also, getting blown out by great teams is also an issue but he has had some great wins as well.  Not beating the Pats and Steelers I get, but that is really it.  You put that together with having a roster that slowly got worse and never was that great under Grigson to begin with I would say he has done alright.  He is an average coach in my eyes.  Not great but nearly as bad as some would say on here.

[NewColtsFan]

47 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Please tell me what he has done besides one fluke season? Who has old chuck beat 

 

He gets his * handed to him by almost every contender in the league 

 

All this means is that he's not a great coach.     But he's certainly not as bad as you and the other CP haters would like to argue.

 

Pagano has suffered because (A) we have NOT had good defensive talent, and (B) the offense has had very poor O-lines.        Makes it tough to stop other teams and makes it tough to protect your quarterback.

 

Much of that is on Grigson,  which is why he's out of a job.

 

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, DaColts85 said:

I have said many teams on this forum that I think Pagano is subpar for sure at game planning and adjustments.  Also, getting blown out by great teams is also an issue but he has had some great wins as well.  Not beating the Pats and Steelers I get, but that is really it.  You put together with having a team that slowly got worse and never was that great under Grigson to begin with I would say he has done alright.  He is an average coach in my eyes.  Not great but nearly as bad as some would say on here.

Thats exactly what me and others have said hes very average and that's why his time here has been long enough. We just contantly fight with the people saying he needs more time just to hold the team back for some reason

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

All this means is that he's not a great coach.     But he's certainly not as bad as you and the other CP haters would like to argue.

 

Pagano has suffered because (A) we have had good defensive talent, and (B) the offense has had very poor O-lines.        Makes it tough to stop other teams and makes it tough to protect your quarterback.

 

Much of that is on Grigson,  which is why he's out of a job.

 

I'm not saying he's useless he's just average that's just as bad imo you hold on to average and eventually you get Jeff Fisher or Marvin Lewis 

[DaColts85]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Thats exactly what me and others have said hes very average and that's why his time here has been long enough. We just contantly fight with the people saying he needs more time just to hold the team back for some reason

Ok, I gotcha!  I would like someone fresh but the problem is who?  Revolving doors never help a team and Luck and the offense learning a whole new scheme again doesn't help (It is badly needed).  Plus a new coach might get rid of Philbin and the blocking scheme we have adapted for who we have.  Another setback with that line would mean Luck should leave us for sure.  Just being a realistic thinker.