2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[IndyScribe]

Oladipo and Sabonis are playing well. I guess playing with Westbrook in OKC didn't help them. Sabonis is playing to his strengths and Oladipo is the first option on a bad team. This team may not be very good, but they're fun to watch. 

 

Call me optimistic, but I think this core is the future of the team. They're all young and will grow and develop with Myles. I think in about 3 years or so, this team can become a serious contenders. A core of Oladipo/Sabonis/Turner would be one of the better ones in the league and they would all be young. Oladipo would be 29 and in his prime. Turner and Sabonis would be 24 and if they keep developing, they could be stars. Leaf could be a good option off the bench. Draft well and draft a superstar at PG/SF then sign someone(a star) in FA at the spot you didn't draft to put you over the top, and you have a good starting 5. Not to mention, in 3 years, the East will still be wide open, and the Cavs won't be as good. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 hours ago, Jules said:

 

I don't even know where the hell I would rank Magic or Lebron or even Kobe. I put Kobe maybe AHEAD of more then I should too.

 

I am not even digging how this Cavs team is set up right now and looking. But we'll see later once they decide on a starting lineup. Maybe if Isaiah Thomas (a big if) can come back later and is healthy and can be his old self that would help a ton and set them on fire a bit.

 

Right now they look like a mess but like I said it's early.

 

One of these years Lebron will show his age and so will the Cavs and they won't win the east but until then it's hard to say they won't win the east again until proven otherwise.

 

I won't lie though, if Lebron loses the finals again it will hurt his legacy a bit since after a while even if it's not entirely his fault those add up and just look bad from a historical perspective.

 

 

LeBron will end up Top 5 all-time, most think he is there already. Cavs should have no problem winning the East again. It stinks that Hayward is out because I thought Boston could take them, not now though. Regarding LeBron he needs to win 1 more Championship to offset his losses because players like Jordan and Magic have many more, JMO. As of now he has the same amount of Championships as Bird has and Shaq has 4. Kobe even has 5 like Magic, he won 2 without Shaq so he proved how Great he was. It's not just about Championships but it factors in when we are talking top 5-7 players of all-time.

[BullsColtsFan1]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I just find it odd how Stephen A and Max both think LeBron is a better player than Magic. He isn't, trust me. It must be silly a Disney thing, Magic was better.

Completely agree.  LeBron was a better scorer than Magic was but that wasn't Magic's expertise(even tho he could).  Magic beats him in every other major category including rings.  I don't care whose on your team, if you leads your team to a title in your first year as a rookie, your something special.  I feel like the competition was much better in the 80s too.  LeBron has had competition in the Finals but nothing in the East, other than maybe the Pacers one year?  My top 5 really haven't changed.  Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Kobe. I have Big O and Bird right after, followed by Duncan and LeBron.  Once LeBron retires I think he'll be close to the top 5, maybe in front of Kobe, pending on rings. 

[Bluefire4]

8 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Very surprised so far.

Bogdonovic wanted to come here and start and was looking forward to it..

 

So far, he has not done much. Sabonis sets very good screens. I'd like us to run Bogdonovic off the screen and get him shots early. He seems to be waiting for us to get the ball to the small forward and that's not what we do anymore

We have given him opportunities early in the last two games. He performed well against the Timbereolves but didn't hit his open shots against the Thunder.

 

I don't mind him having a bad shooting game but it sucks when he does have one because he plays no defense and can't get to the rim for layups. It'd be nice to have GR3 healthy so when Bogdonovic struggles with his shot, we had another reliable option.

[2006Coltsbestever]

53 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Completely agree.  LeBron was a better scorer than Magic was but that wasn't Magic's expertise(even tho he could).  Magic beats him in every other major category including rings.  I don't care whose on your team, if you leads your team to a title in your first year as a rookie, your something special.  I feel like the competition was much better in the 80s too.  LeBron has had competition in the Finals but nothing in the East, other than maybe the Pacers one year?  My top 5 really haven't changed.  Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Kobe. I have Big O and Bird right after, followed by Duncan and LeBron.  Once LeBron retires I think he'll be close to the top 5, maybe in front of Kobe, pending on rings. 

Yeah I agree with your Top 5 as well = 1 Jordan, 2 Magic, but I would have Kareem 3, Wilt 4, Kobe 5. Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, and LeBron are right on the cusp along with Big O. When we did our all-time Draft I had to take Shaq as my Center 1st because you took Wilt. I was fearing you would take Shaq too .

[BullsColtsFan1]

47 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I agree with your Top 5 as well = 1 Jordan, 2 Magic, but I would have Kareem 3, Wilt 4, Kobe 5. Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, and LeBron are right on the cusp along with Big O. When we did our all-time Draft I had to take Shaq as my Center 1st because you took Wilt. I was fearing you would take Shaq too .

I'll tell you this, Kareem was always ahead of Wilt on my  list until I got other info.  I watched more old games of Wilt, I read what other players said about Wilt(including Jerry West), I looked at his stats closer, he might be the most dominate NBA player of all time, and the dude could play in any era.  Wilt/Kareem is tough but I am sold on Wilt.  He was crazy Athletic for his time, he's the only player to legit block Kareem's skyhook too(at an older age I may add too). If they would have kept blocks as a stat back then Wilt's numbers would look even better.  They both changed the game of basketball, changed the rules too.  Ever hear the UCLA Larry Brown/Magic Johnson story with Wilt when Wilt was 40? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I'll tell you this, Kareem was always ahead of Wilt on my  list until I got other info.  I watched more old games of Wilt, I read what other players said about Wilt(including Jerry West), I looked at his stats closer, he might be the most dominate NBA player of all time, and the dude could play in any era.  Wilt/Kareem is tough but I am sold on Wilt.  He was crazy Athletic for his time, he's the only player to legit block Kareem's skyhook too(at an older age I may add too). If they would have kept blocks as a stat back then Wilt's numbers would look even better.  They both changed the game of basketball, changed the rules too.  

He did block Kareem once which was unreal, nobody else has. Wilt was a beast no doubt. That is why when you drafted him I had to go with Shaq because of girth. Kareem to me was the best because of his scoring but Wilt and Shaq were monsters that weighed 300

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He did block Kareem once which was unreal, nobody else has. Wilt was a beast no doubt. That is why when you drafted him I had to go with Shaq because of girth. Kareem to me was the best because of his scoring but Wilt and Shaq were monsters that weighed 300

You cant overlook the changes about how players used to be able to play defense in the circle. Berfore the rule change the big men could get called for fouls (charging) inside the circle. Now once a big man gets into the circle they can pretty much just muscle and pound the defender at will. There ones was a day when going to the basket got you pounded.

[RockThatBlue]

Good read

 

https://www.wthr.com/article/kravitz-so-um-maybe-that-paul-george-trade-wasnt-so-terribly-lop-sided-after-all

[BullsColtsFan1]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He did block Kareem once which was unreal, nobody else has. Wilt was a beast no doubt. That is why when you drafted him I had to go with Shaq because of girth. Kareem to me was the best because of his scoring but Wilt and Shaq were monsters that weighed 300

When Wilt was 40 he played with a bunch of UCLA freshman and sophmores against Magic(his rookie year) James Worthy, Kareem, Michael Cooper and a few others.  Magic always stacked his team.  Magic shot game point and Wilt blocked it, Magic said goaltending get off my court, Wilt looked at Larry Brown and said coach, was that goaltending, Larry Brown said no. Magic got mad so they played another game to 11.  Wilts team won 11-1 and he blocked practically every shot lol.  At age 40.  Really cool story. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

When Wilt was 40 he played with a bunch of UCLA freshman and sophmores against Magic(his rookie year) James Worthy, Kareem, Michael Cooper and a few others.  Magic always stacked his team.  Magic shot game point and Wilt blocked it, Magic said goaltending get off my court, Wilt looked at Larry Brown and said coach, was that goaltending, Larry Brown said no. Magic got mad so they played another game to 11.  Wilts team won 11-1 and he blocked practically every shot lol.  At age 40.  Really cool story. 

Yeah Magic always hated to lose but I guess if you make Wilt mad that is a bad mistake  

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Magic always hated to lose but I guess if you make Wilt mad that is a bad mistake  

Yeah Wilt was a giant when comparing the other players in those days. 7 footers were not as common while a lot of guards were 6 feet or less.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yeah Wilt was a giant when comparing the other players in those days. 7 footers were not as common while a lot of guards were 6 feet or less.

I would hate to see Wilt angry  I bet he would Block everything  

[crazycolt1]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Magic always hated to lose but I guess if you make Wilt mad that is a bad mistake  

There may never be games as competitive as the Lakers-Celtics were back when Magic-Bird had their rivalry. It done more for the ratings for the NBA that anything we had seen. Unbelievable. Dang near all the players who played for the Lakers and Celtics are in the HOF now.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

There may never be games as competitive as the Lakers-Celtics were back when Magic-Bird had their rivalry. It done more for the ratings for the NBA that anything we had seen. Unbelievable. Dang near all the players who played for the Lakers and Celtics are in the HOF now.  

That was the stuff (and I wanted to use the other word lol) Magic vs Bird, man that was awesome! I liked both players too. I have always thought Magic was better but Bird was awesome. When Bird played at Indiana St and played Magic's Spartans I knew Bird was outmatched but that Indiana St team will always go down as one of the best. They were 33-0 up until Magic beat them. I guess Jud Heathcote passed away, I didn't even realize that until a few days ago. RIP to him.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That was the stuff (and I wanted to use the other word lol) Magic vs Bird, man that was awesome! I liked both players too. I have always thought Magic was better but Bird was awesome. When Bird played at Indiana St and played Magic's Spartans I knew Bird was outmatched but that Indiana St team will always go down as one of the best. They were 33-0 up until Magic beat them. I guess Jud Heathcote passed away, I didn't even realize that until a few days ago. RIP to him.

I know, Magic had the talent while Bird had the brains. It was a hades of a rivalry to watch.

Just watching Bird shoot in the three point competition was a sight. He always had this attitude as who was he going to beat before the competition even started.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I know, Magic had the talent while Bird had the brains. It was a hades of a rivalry to watch.

Just watching Bird shoot in the three point competition was a sight. He always had this attitude as who was he going to beat before the competition even started.

Bird was unbelievable, the way he could just beat his opponents with his brains and shooting. His Basketball IQ was off the charts too.

[akcolt]

On 10/25/2017 at 6:07 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah he was only the best player on our team when we took Miami 7 games in the ECFinals. We lost to a Superteam in LeBron, Wade, Bosh. How's is that nothing. We actually went to 2 straight ECFinals. If everyone in here thinks we are so good, then go to go Vegas and bet on the Pacers to win it all.

The MVP in that series was Roy He figured out how to play for 7 games averaging 22 & 10 Lebron was the only player to average more points.  Hibbertt got rich from that series.  West was the leader. 

 

George has said himself  he didn't want the pressure of being the man. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/pacers-coach-suggests-paul-george-wasnt-leader-george-kind-agrees-210736012.html

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, akcolt said:

The MVP in that series was Roy He figured out how to play for 7 games averaging 22 & 10 Lebron was the only player to average more points.  Hibbertt got rich from that series.  West was the leader. 

 

George has said himself  he didn't want the pressure of being the man. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/pacers-coach-suggests-paul-george-wasnt-leader-george-kind-agrees-210736012.html

I understand all of that, yes Roy had a hell of a series but it still doesn't change the fact PG was our best player. Without him we don't even sniff the Conference Finals. West was a vocal leader and was a Very Good player as I Posted but he wasn't a better player than PG was.

[IndyScribe]

17 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Good read

 

https://www.wthr.com/article/kravitz-so-um-maybe-that-paul-george-trade-wasnt-so-terribly-lop-sided-after-all

I've been saying this before, but this trade wasn't as bad as everyone was making it out to be. Now, Oladipo and Sabonis have both exceeded expectations though. From all the trade offers the Pacers got, this was the best one. None of the others would have been as good. Celtics wouldn't have offered anything good, despite what everyone else says.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, IndyScribe said:

I've been saying this before, but this trade wasn't as bad as everyone was making it out to be. Now, Oladipo and Sabonis have both exceeded expectations though. From all the trade offers the Pacers got, this was the best one. None of the others would have been as good. Celtics wouldn't have offered anything good, despite what everyone else says.

The rumors of Boston offering all those picks was a pile of horse dung. It was put out by Ainge to save face with Boston's fan base.

[oldunclemark]

21 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Good read

 

https://www.wthr.com/article/kravitz-so-um-maybe-that-paul-george-trade-wasnt-so-terribly-lop-sided-after-all

I'm glad he admits it. Others will, too

Some of the things that were said (We traded PG for nothing. OKC 'stole' PG from us) when the trade was made were kinda hot 'First Takes' ...that almost always prove out as overstatements

 

....OKC wasnt using Sabonis correctly and Victor O figured to excel back home again in Indiana.

..And in a year. I'm still thinking Paul George is in Los Angeles. He's never denied he has always wanted to play for the Lakers.

 

Plus..we eventually will move Thad Young to a contender and Sabonis will start with Myles Turner.

Sabonis, Turner, Collison Bogdonovic and Oladipo......Not great but good

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

I'm glad he admits it. Others will, too

Some of the things that were said (We traded PG for nothing. OKC 'stole' PG from us) when the trade was made were kinda hot 'First Takes' .

 

....OKC wasnt using Sabonis correctly and Victor O figured to excel back home again in Indiana.

..And in a year. I'm still thinking Paul George is in Los Angeles. He's never denied he has always wanted to play for the Lakers

 

It's mainly because Dipo is playing so well, PG is one of the best players in the league though. OKC will be tough to beat in the long run. Regarding us, I hope we make the Playoffs - we may if our guys can jell.

[oldunclemark]

10 hours ago, akcolt said:

The MVP in that series was Roy He figured out how to play for 7 games averaging 22 & 10 Lebron was the only player to average more points.  Hibbertt got rich from that series.  West was the leader. 

 

George has said himself  he didn't want the pressure of being the man. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/pacers-coach-suggests-paul-george-wasnt-leader-george-kind-agrees-210736012.html

very interesting

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's mainly because Dipo is playing so well, PG is one of the best players in the league though. OKC will be tough to beat in the long run. Regarding us, I hope we make the Playoffs - we may if our guys can jell.

Sabonis is playing very, very well.    OKC used him as a 'Strech 4' or 'Stretch 5'

 

..we use him as a low-post '5' and it looks like that's his natural position..

He's going to be with us a few years and PG has never said he wont be in Los Angels in 2018

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

very interesting

Being the best player on a team and being the best leader are 2 different things. David West was much older than everyone else so he was a leader, PG was the best player. Roy had a great series but wasn't even the 2nd best player on the team, West was.

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Being the best player on a team and being the best leader are 2 different things. David West was much older than everyone else so he was a leader, PG was the best player. Roy had a great series but wasn't even the 2nd best player on the team, West was.

If Paul is true to what he said here....then he is better off in OKC with Westbrook....(or LA with LeBron)......I cant blame him if its not his personality to lead a team of players his age or older....

 

But a winning team needs a leader and what he said here explains a lot about the last couple of seasons.

 

 

I wonder if Durant is in Golden State for the same reason..

He didnt want to be the 'team leader'...

[oldunclemark]

Is Myles Turner getting any better? Has anyone heard?

This concussion thing is scary..It could linger for weeks or months

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

If Paul is true to what he said here....then he is better off in OKC....(or LA with LeBron)

......I cant blame him if its not his personality to lead a team of players his age or older....

 

But a winning team needs a leader and what he said here explains a lot about the last couple of seasons.

I guess really the bottomline is we had to trade PG and get something because he was leaving anyway. I am happy Dipo is playing so good. He's young too.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

Is Myles Turner getting any better? Has anyone heard?

This concussion thing is scary..It could linger for weeks or months

I Hope, I want to see him and Dipo play together a lot. That should be fun

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I Hope, I want to see him and Dipo play together a lot. That should be fun

Add Robinson to the mix and they should be better also.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Add Robinson to the mix and they should be better also.

Yeah I forgot about him, he is a Good player. Stinks he is injured as well.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I am hoping Turner can be our All-Star and we just keep building around him. Dipo has all-star written all over him too if he keeps playing like he is.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am hoping Turner can be our All-Star and we just keep building around him. Dipo has all-star written all over him too if he keeps playing like he is.

I think for such a young team they play well together. Collison has taken over at being the leader with his ball control and assist. When Robinson returns they should improve for sure.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

I think for such a young team they play well together. Collison has taken over at being the leader with his ball control and assist. When Robinson returns they should improve for sure.

Collison is so underrated, he has some games where he just takes over.

[IndyScribe]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am hoping Turner can be our All-Star and we just keep building around him. Dipo has all-star written all over him too if he keeps playing like he is.

I think he can be. I think Sabonis can and Oladipo can both become good players with the latter becoming an All-Star as well. If a superstar is drafted in 2018 and another solid starter is added, I think this team can compete in a few years. Not to mention, Turner will still be really young. 

 

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

The rumors of Boston offering all those picks was a pile of horse dung. It was put out by Ainge to save face with Boston's fan base.

Agreed. I think Pritchard wanted those picks for PG but Ainge was hesitant and insisted on sending other assets. Pritchard probably called Ainge's bluff and shipped PG out west to the Thunder.

[oldunclemark]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think for such a young team they play well together. Collison has taken over at being the leader with his ball control and assist. When Robinson returns they should improve for sure.

Collison is nowhere near Paul George but he seems to have no problem being the leader

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, IndyScribe said:

I think he can be. I think Sabonis can and Oladipo can both become good players with the latter becoming an All-Star as well. If a superstar is drafted in 2018 and another solid starter is added, I think this team can compete in a few years. Not to mention, Turner will still be really young. 

 

Agreed. I think Pritchard wanted those picks for PG but Ainge was hesitant and insisted on sending other assets. Pritchard probably called Ainge's bluff and shipped PG out west to the Thunder.

Ainge is always trying to con teams.......and I don't  think we wanted picks...we needed players and we got them..

I'm hoping Bogdonavic is better than he's shown....but our acquisitions have shown up

[Jules]

On 10/27/2017 at 4:56 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think LeBron is awesome but I would put Jordan and Magic ahead of him, Magic won a Championship in his rookie season when Kareem was even out. That is unreal. As a Rookie Magic had 42/15/7 against the Sixers who was loaded to win it all. LeBron is in my Top 10 easily. If I was to ask you, who would you take LeBron or Shaq, what would you say? I would take Shaq but LeBron is very special. Would you take LeBron over Kobe? Then there is Larry too for 3!

 

I can't choose.......you are asking me to choose between possibly my 3 all time favorite players since I been alive watching the NBA with Kobe/Lebron/Shaq.  

 

Probably for me my rankings go Kobe, Lebron, Shaq in that order for personal preference and it's CLOSE with Kobe/Lebron. Shaq I love but not as much as Kobe/Lebron. I also used to often notice some hate Kobe and love Lebron and vice versa but not me. I appreciate them both and enjoy both.

 

It also depends on what you want in a player and for what. I mean are you looking for a dominant big man who can kill everyone (Shaq) and especially before the rule changes? Are you looking for a cold blooded killer who makes the big shots? (Kobe) Or do you want maybe the best all around athlete we have seen in the NBA who makes his teams instant contenders? (Lebron)

 

For me often with these "debates" I don't get into them since these players just bring different intangibles and skill sets for different moments and team needs. And it's always going to be emotionally biased even if we won't always admit it. We all have our personal faves.

 

Shaq vs. Lebron is not a bad comparison though. When we had Lebron/Kyrie some compared it a bit to Shaq/Kobe.

 

Kyrie btw tonight has some black mamba magic himself at the end of the 4th quarter in Miami hitting a few clutch daggers. I will say this, Kyrie can sometimes be totally helter skelter for a full game but then at the end BAM he hits a few.

 

Marcus Smart was kinda all over the place again but hit some big shots early in the game. I laughed when I seen some Celtics fan made this:

 

 

The guards in Boston are looking real smooth.

 

Celtics are still a playoff team and could be still dangerous assuming they keep who they have left in one piece. I feel like a broken record, but I think most who watch them closely know they had an EXCELLENT chance of making the finals if Gordon Hayward wasn't out. Sad.......the "what could have been." I wonder at times if Hayward could come back late in the year but I would not risk it really unless he had some fast miraculous recovery.

 

Cavs look awful. Could be the same old Cavs and they have rough patches and then later on they win enough to be the first or second seed and are in the finals. But, the defense yet again looks horrible and without Kyrie it's more of a big 2 now and I am not sure I think D Wade is going to be the factor yet he once was. 

Cavs desperately will need IT sometime this year and that remains to be seen if he is coming back healthy yet.

 

But I remember last year how Cleveland had these horrible rough patches defensively and in the eastern conference playoffs I forgot about it but then come finals time it all came back again.........

 

[Jules]

Oh yeah, saw some highlights of that big Warriors comeback against the Wizards.

 

AND that now well talked about fight with Draymond Green and Bradley Beal.  Geez........

 

 

Hahahaha you know it's a good fight when a jersey is shredded.