Vinny On Manning

[Fx Stryker]

Where have I compared my insights against AV's? As you can see for yourself if you trace the thread back, I mentioned doctors in my very first post on this thread.

I don't think Adam Vinatieri is any expert on throwing and catching the football, or any expert evaluator of QB rehab progress.

He has been watching Qbs for 20 years now. I think he has an idea.

I never said he was an expert.

I have been watching QBs throw the ball for over 20 years. Does this make me an expert? No.

I may be wrong, but 1:1 is the same thing isn't it? Maybe you didn't imply that, but that is how your words imply it. I may be the only one who sees it that way, but I don't think so.

Yes you did, by your statement, you were in fact comparing your 20 years of watching a Qb to AV's 20 years.

Don't make your statements so vague if you are making a point.

Didn't realize you've been on a professional team, and had first hand experience. I apologize, I just thought you watched them on Sunday.

Strictly a sarcastic remark.

[UndecidedFrog]

Yes you did, by your statement, you were in fact comparing your 20 years of watching a Qb to AV's 20 years.

No, you are mistaken,

This is what I said:

I have been watching QBs throw the ball for over 20 years. Does this make me an expert? No.

Thanks for sharing.

Please show me where I have compared my watching QBs throw the ball for over 20 years to AV.

[Cynjin]

No, you are mistaken,

This is what I said:

Please show me where I have compared my watching QBs throw the ball for over 20 years to AV.

No I am not. By stating that you have been watching QBs throw for 20 years in direct response to the statement that AV has been watching QBs throw for 20 years, you are in fact comparing your 20 years of watching to his.

[fvantagio]

I don't think Adam Vinatieri is any expert on throwing and catching the football, or any expert evaluator of QB rehab progress.

Forgive me for discounting his opinion, in favor of what the doctors and coaches that advise Irsay may say.

Oh wow. Thats a new low. He has played with 2 HOF QBs for how many years now? Id say his opinion is worth more then Mr. Locanfora who has what? Interviewed them a few times? Talked to his unnamed "sources"?

In favor of what the doctors say? How about it being a career saver? Or Manning being on track? Those doctors dont have any merit? So forgive me for not believing a word out of Locanfora's mouth. Because I have learned from experience that he is wrong much more then he is right. Wouldnt be surprised if his unnamed source is Deon Sanders.

[Fx Stryker]

Wouldnt be surprised if his unnamed source is Deon Sanders.

, I think Deion goes to sleep every night regretting his statements.

[P-Money]

Still love watching that video! Puts a smile on my face seeing Deon get denied by a punter.

[ThatOneColtFan]

I don't think Adam Vinatieri is any expert on throwing and catching the football, or any expert evaluator of QB rehab progress.

Forgive me for discounting his opinion, in favor of what the doctors and coaches that advise Irsay may say.

Vinny could throw, probably better than you and I.

Don't say things without doing some research first.

[ThatOneColtFan]

It doesn't make sense, these boards are so lopsided.

We get that Adam isn't a QB or a Dr, but he said NOTHING about Manning coming back to Football, he just said he's not as far off as some people think.

I don't know why people have to come and discredit what he says because he's not a Dr. or a "QB expert". No one ever said he was any of those things, but to say he doesn't know anything about what it takes to throw a ball in the NFL is absurd. He was a teammate of Tom Brady, and is now a teammate of Peyton Manning. I think he's seen enough to know when a QB is throwing at an NFL level. Not to say that he said Manning is back at that level, but I think he would know if Peyton was improving a little.

[Susie Q]

Hopefully AV saw Manning when he was having issues over the summer/training camp and this report is an improvement of those conditions.

Well AV didn't see him throwing in training camp because Peyton didn't throw in training camp and I know because I worked at training camp. Painter took all the snaps at training camp. Just the facts from what I saw last summer.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Well AV didn't see him throwing in training camp because Peyton didn't throw in training camp and I know because I worked at training camp. Painter took all the snaps at training camp. Just the facts from what I saw last summer.

I'm talking more along the lines of behind the scenes when he was throwing, and experiencing the back pain and arms issues... Call it summer workouts, out of public view or what have you...

[Peyton and Eli fan]

I'm talking more along the lines of behind the scenes when he was throwing, and experiencing the back pain and arms issues... Call it summer workouts, out of public view or what have you...

Remember what a fit the blogs, etc... were having about the Colts practicing in private during the lockout? In retrospect I wonder if it was because Peyton didn't want outsiders to see his struggles throwing at the time.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Remember what a fit the blogs, etc... were having about the Colts practicing in private during the lockout? In retrospect I wonder if it was because Peyton didn't want outsiders to see his struggles throwing at the time.

At that point I think he was okay and moving forward with the off season and held in private as much to keep people out as opposed to issues. I think at some point during those work outs there was an issue that caused the procedure to happen, but a lot of teams held private workouts just to keep cameras/media/fans away.

It could be a little bit of both.

[Tony]

Well I for one am very glad to hear AV say something positive about Peyton's throwing. As far as some one saying Doctors say you should not hear anything from one of his doctors unless released by Peyton so no news from doctors is ok. Great to hear the positive and thanks for the post.

[husker61]

No I am not. By stating that you have been watching QBs throw for 20 years in direct response to the statement that AV has been watching QBs throw for 20 years, you are in fact comparing your 20 years of watching to his.

he's never going to admit it. you see people like this all the time on forums. most people can see it. it's just a waste of time arguing.

[Jaric]

I'll take the opinions of Joe Addai and Adam Vinatieri on Peyton's progress before that of Rob Lowe and Adam Schefter.

I'm just going to wait a month and go with the opinion of Jim Irsay.

[Jaric]

Oh wow. Thats a new low. He has played with 2 HOF QBs for how many years now? Id say his opinion is worth more then Mr. Locanfora who has what? Interviewed them a few times? Talked to his unnamed "sources"?

In favor of what the doctors say? How about it being a career saver? Or Manning being on track? Those doctors dont have any merit? So forgive me for not believing a word out of Locanfora's mouth. Because I have learned from experience that he is wrong much more then he is right. Wouldnt be surprised if his unnamed source is Deon Sanders.

Why do you think that being an NFL kicker makes him a good judge of Manning's nerve and tricep regeneration?

I don't personally see that correlation (I'm willing to listen though) and I think that's all UF is trying to say. Not sure why everyone is jumping all over him.

[doogansquest]

I don't think that's true at all.

UF is simply stating a fact. Adam being optimistic about Manning's health doesn't really mean anything other than he's optimistic about Manning's health. But his opinion on the matter means as much as yours and mine do.

Perhaps if everyone would stop searching high and low for anything, regardless of how relevent, for something they can point to as definite proof that Manning will or won't be coming back (which incidentally always seems to conform to what the poster posting it thinks...) then perhaps you won't see UF reminding everyone what the situation really is.

Which is all I've seen him do. Yeah, some of that isn't positive, but in some regards, that is the situation.

We all just need to calm down and accept that we aren't going to have any real answers until Irsay and Manning announce whatever it is they decide.

I would agree with this, except the same people who claim this positivity from another player means "nothing," will say that the baseless babble from ESPN analysts is "another sign he's done."

You can't have it both ways, guys.

This is a guy who's watching him play. The "experts" have seen nothing, because they aren't being allowed into the training sessions. They haven't been getting info from Peyton or Irsay, or anyone close to them. They are opening every piece with "I think..."

Even if Adam's comments don't mean anything, that doesn't mean the fans can't be optimistic, right? The response was such a vehement attempt to destroy any hope it generated for anyone, but doing so the other way (ie: responding with hope to a negatively opened OP) gets frowned upon as denying opinions.

Just doesn't seem like fair play...

[UndecidedFrog]

I don't personally see that correlation (I'm willing to listen though) and I think that's all UF is trying to say. Not sure why everyone is jumping all over him.

They're jumping all over me because they need a whipping boy on which to unleash their frustration that stems from coming to terms with the possibility that Peyton may not be considered healthy enough to play for the Colts. They are willing to grasp at AV's positive opinion, to counter what they perceive as the media's negative opinion on the matter, not realizing that none of these opinions hold any water.

The only opinions that matter are those that belong to the doctors, trainers and coaches that are observing Peyton's rehab, and on whom Mr. Irsay will rely in making his decision to pay or not pay the option bonus.

[husker61]

I would agree with this, except the same people who claim this positivity from another player means "nothing," will say that the baseless babble from ESPN analysts is "another sign he's done."

You can't have it both ways, guys.

This is a guy who's watching him play. The "experts" have seen nothing, because they aren't being allowed into the training sessions. They haven't been getting info from Peyton or Irsay, or anyone close to them. They are opening every piece with "I think..."

Even if Adam's comments don't mean anything, that doesn't mean the fans can't be optimistic, right? The response was such a vehement attempt to destroy any hope it generated for anyone, but doing so the other way (ie: responding with hope to a negatively opened OP) gets frowned upon as denying opinions.

Just doesn't seem like fair play...

very well said!

[UndecidedFrog]

I would agree with this, except the same people who claim this positivity from another player means "nothing," will say that the baseless babble from ESPN analysts is "another sign he's done."

You can't have it both ways, guys.

This is a guy who's watching him play. The "experts" have seen nothing, because they aren't being allowed into the training sessions. They haven't been getting info from Peyton or Irsay, or anyone close to them. They are opening every piece with "I think..."

Even if Adam's comments don't mean anything, that doesn't mean the fans can't be optimistic, right? The response was such a vehement attempt to destroy any hope it generated for anyone, but doing so the other way (ie: responding with hope to a negatively opened OP) gets frowned upon as denying opinions.

Just doesn't seem like fair play...

Doogan, have I ever used any media report (except for Andrew Brandt's articles that explains Peyton's contract details) to support my opinion that Peyton may be released? Interviews directly with Peyton and Irsay don't count, because they are the primary players involved.

You can search, but I will save you the trouble. I haven't.

So, please tell me more about this fair play.

[coltsfanej]

If Peyton can play back at 100% I want him back. He is the best ever and if healthy, will continue to be. If he is not, I am all for Luck. The only problem I foresee is if he will be ready come March. None of us know if and when he will be ready. That is n0ne with a captal 'ZERO'. I would understand either move by Irsay. And he will have more information when he makes his decision than any of us will have.

But if I had my druthers, I would want Peyton healthy for 4 or so years and trade the pick and collect many picks for this year and next. But its not my decision and I dont have all the info in order to make the choices.

But I'd say Vinny talking is as reliable as anyone elses that wants to talk about the situation besides Peyton or Irsay. They know more than anyone else. Because if everyone that is flapping their gums about the whole thing in and to the media knew half as much as they act like they do then Peyton has already retired and came back 4 times. So I guess that means he took another one of Brett Favre's records.

[John Dee]

I don't think Adam Vinatieri is any expert on throwing and catching the football, or any expert evaluator of QB rehab progress.

Forgive me for discounting his opinion, in favor of what the doctors and coaches that advise Irsay may say.

Right on Frog, sometimes logic isn't so logical to some.

Would any of you expect "ANY" other type of opinion on Manning's health from any of his mates regarding his situatiion?

[John Dee]

And by the way... I have yet to read anyone say they wish "Manning was out the door"

None of us do.... but reality will dictate Irsay's course of action in the next month. And to some the writing on the wall is more than crystal clear.

[UndecidedFrog]

Right on Frog, sometimes logic isn't so logical to some.

Would any of you expect "ANY" other type of opinion on Manning's health from any of his mates regarding his situatiion?

I would rather hear from the people whose job it is to evaluate Peyton's rehab. To me, they are the docs, the trainers, and the coaches involved. I hope Mr. Irsay has assembled a like group of advisors on whom he can rely for accurate information on which to base his upcoming decision.

I would consider anyone who is not part of this select group, including Peyton's teammates, and various media pundits, to be biased.

[John Dee]

I would rather hear from the people whose job it is to evaluate Peyton's rehab. To me, they are the docs, the trainers, and the coaches involved. I hope Mr. Irsay has assembled a like group of advisors on whom he can rely for accurate information on which to base his upcoming decision.

I would consider anyone who is not part of this select group, including Peyton's teammates, and various media pundits, to be biased.

exactly.....

[shecolt]

My First, I don't think there is a single Colt's fan here who doesn't wish that we were talking about the Manning Bowl and whether it would be Peyton or Eli who would be getting that second ring. But, instead the main topic of discussion is Peyton's health.

I was thrilled that the lockout was over and we could finally have some football. At the time, I had hopes that the Colts would be in the playoffs and even possibly in the SB on home turf. That dream was shattered about as much as it is possible to shatter a dream.

Then, we got news of Peyton's injury. I refused to believe that he wouldn't be starting that first game. I think it was Dungy who said that the only way Peyton wouldn't play would be if he were dead. That was what I also thought. Watching that first game without Peyton, broke my heart.

Then, I had hopes that Peyton would soon be returning. My thought was that he may be out 3-4 games; but would be back to right the ship and hopefully keep the Colts in playoff contention. That didn't happen. Watching all those games without Peyton, broke my heart again.

Adam's words are encouraging. At least they are much better than if they had been negative or non-commital. And, I don't want to appear to be that debbie downer. I would much rather be the opposite. But, the truth is that have built a shell around myself. I don't want to have my heart broken again.

I don't want to offend anyone, but until we hear news that confirms (without a doubt) the status of Peyton's health; I refuse to put much stock into anything negative or postive that is said. If that makes me a debbie downer, then so be it.

[Moose Of Woe]

Still love watching that video! Puts a smile on my face seeing Deon get denied by a punter.

Unfortunately all the video does is provide a prime example of how putrid our special teams have been for... ... ... how many decades? We shouldn't use a 75 yard punt return as a highlight.

Don't get me wrong, it was funny watching Deion get denied by a punter, but he still tooled our return unit like just about everyone else does.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

It don't even matter to some in these forums what Peyton or Mr. Irsay have to say! They aparently know more than Peyton or Mr. Irsay himself! Pessimists look at everything negatively. So if something positive is said they will still look for something negative with which to rebut. And some people are just legends in their own minds and so full of themselves that they actually believe that their opinion is the only right one. Mr. Irsay said, in the article "Complicated Medical Matter" on Colts.com, that the date in march could possibly be adjusted. "Anything's possible if two parties choose to get together and do that. I don't think that's something that is an impossibility by any stretch." He also said

“I’ve said from the beginning, it’s a two-phase medical aspect,” said Irsay. “Can he return to play at a really high level? (That’s) what his expectations are. That’s the only level he wants to be. Can he drill it (50 yards) in Foxborough in January when it’s 10 degrees outside? Is he going to be back to the highest level, the Hall-of-Fame level, he expects to play at? The second issue always has been the health and the risk of going back onto the field. They’re two separate issues. They’re complicated issues.”

[Happy2BeHere]

Look....I have the final say here on all this. I say that it if .....zZz..Zzzz.zzZzZzzzZz

[John Dee]

It don't even matter to some in these forums what Peyton or Mr. Irsay have to say! They aparently know more than Peyton or Mr. Irsay himself! Pessimists look at everything negatively. So if something positive is said they will still look for something negative with which to rebut. And some people are just legends in their own minds and so full of themselves that they actually believe that their opinion is the only right one. Mr. Irsay said, in the article "Complicated Medical Matter" on Colts.com, that the date in march could possibly be adjusted. "Anything's possible if two parties choose to get together and do that. I don't think that's something that is an impossibility by any stretch." He also said

“I’ve said from the beginning, it’s a two-phase medical aspect,” said Irsay. “Can he return to play at a really high level? (That’s) what his expectations are. That’s the only level he wants to be. Can he drill it (50 yards) in Foxborough in January when it’s 10 degrees outside? Is he going to be back to the highest level, the Hall-of-Fame level, he expects to play at? The second issue always has been the health and the risk of going back onto the field. They’re two separate issues. They’re complicated issues.”

The bottom line is today's NFL is a QB driven league. And Indy won the lottery by ......

ok .. oNe more time... "SUCKING FOR LUCK" ..

The only guarantee in this whole can of worms is that Indy will draft Andrew Luck.

[UndecidedFrog]

The bottom line is today's NFL is a QB driven league. And Indy won the lottery by ......

ok .. oNe more time... "SUCKING FOR LUCK" ..

The only guarantee in this whole can of worms is that Indy will draft Andrew Luck.

Will you be disappointed if Irsay picks RG3 instead?

[John Dee]

Will you be disappointed if Irsay picks RG3 instead?

Good Lord yes... RG3 played in the worst defensive conf. in the BCS. I like Russel Wilson better truly... He played better competition, did it for 4 years in the ACC and Big10.... Only thing holding Wilson back is his height..... He is 5' 11".. and RG3 is what .... 6' or 6' 1"... really...??

RG3 is a HUGE unknown...

Luck is the best college QB I have ever seen. He plays with NO skill position players that will be drafted in the first 4 rounds. He runs a 4.7 40. He is "Manning" brains with "Elway" legs...

Luck is a no brainer. That is why I think Indy just totally hit the lottery.

AND THEY KNOW IT.................

This is truly one of the most unique situations in NFL history...

[Balzer40]

Will you be disappointed if Irsay picks RG3 instead?

Listen, I won't say for an absolute fact that there is no way on earth that Irsay wouldn't draft RG3, but I think the only way he would is if it was discovered that Luck had some sort of degenertive disease that would significantly reduce his playing yrs.. Despite what is being said by a very few people on this board and even fewer people that actually know what they are talking about, RG3 is no where near the talent Andrew Luck has. Its a good media story for them to boost another QB up and make him sound much better than he really is just because its a story they can sell and it will create even more interest in the draft. They do it every single yr. so it leaves some intrigue for the 1st pick in the draft instead of it beings hands down a certain player.

[Jaric]

I would agree with this, except the same people who claim this positivity from another player means "nothing," will say that the baseless babble from ESPN analysts is "another sign he's done."

You can't have it both ways, guys.

This is a guy who's watching him play. The "experts" have seen nothing, because they aren't being allowed into the training sessions. They haven't been getting info from Peyton or Irsay, or anyone close to them. They are opening every piece with "I think..."

Even if Adam's comments don't mean anything, that doesn't mean the fans can't be optimistic, right? The response was such a vehement attempt to destroy any hope it generated for anyone, but doing so the other way (ie: responding with hope to a negatively opened OP) gets frowned upon as denying opinions.

Just doesn't seem like fair play...

I suppose it's a good thing then that neither myself nor UF has pointed to espn guys as proof positive that Manning isn't coming back.

And there is a difference between being optimistic, and taking something completely unrelated and holding it up as proof positive of anything.

[UndecidedFrog]

Good Lord yes... RG3 played in the worst defensive conf. in the BCS. I like Russel Wilson better truly... He played better competition, did it for 4 years in the ACC and Big10.... Only thing holding Wilson back is his height..... He is 5' 11".. and RG3 is what .... 6' or 6' 1"... really...??

RG3 is a HUGE unknown...

Luck is the best college QB I have ever seen. He plays with NO skill position players that will be drafted in the first 4 rounds. He runs a 4.7 40. He is "Manning" brains with "Elway" legs...

Luck is a no brainer. That is why I think Indy just totally hit the lottery.

AND THEY KNOW IT.................

This is truly one of the most unique situations in NFL history...

I agree with pretty much everything you said above.

However, I know others will point out that Luck may be as much of an unknown as RG3, since neither have yet played in NFL.

If Irsay picked RG3 over Luck, I would begin to seriously question his smarts, and those advisors around him.

[UndecidedFrog]

Listen, I won't say for an absolute fact that there is no way on earth that Irsay wouldn't draft RG3, but I think the only way he would is if it was discovered that Luck had some sort of degenertive disease that would significantly reduce his playing yrs..

I'm in total agreement with what you have said above.

I think it would be foolish to pick RG3 over Luck.

You mean a disease that would significantly reduce his playing years like nerve damage that would weaken his triceps of his throwing arm? Never mind, don't answer that.

[Happy2BeHere]

I heard that Irsay is going to trade up in the draft to get the #2 spot also...thus he can draft both Luck and RG3 and then the forum members won't have to worry about who he should take...

[UndecidedFrog]

I heard that Irsay is going to trade up in the draft to get the #2 spot also...thus he can draft both Luck and RG3 and then the forum members won't have to worry about who he should take...

LOL, but I will join the complaints about how much cap space is occupied by the QB in the scenario where we keep Peyton and have both Luck and RG3.

If you do the analysis, having Luck and RG3 together, the impact to the salary cap is less than what Peyton, under the current contract, does to the salary cap.

[Susie Q]

My First, I don't think there is a single Colt's fan here who doesn't wish that we were talking about the Manning Bowl and whether it would be Peyton or Eli who would be getting that second ring. But, instead the main topic of discussion is Peyton's health.

I was thrilled that the lockout was over and we could finally have some football. At the time, I had hopes that the Colts would be in the playoffs and even possibly in the SB on home turf. That dream was shattered about as much as it is possible to shatter a dream.

Then, we got news of Peyton's injury. I refused to believe that he wouldn't be starting that first game. I think it was Dungy who said that the only way Peyton wouldn't play would be if he were dead. That was what I also thought. Watching that first game without Peyton, broke my heart.

Then, I had hopes that Peyton would soon be returning. My thought was that he may be out 3-4 games; but would be back to right the ship and hopefully keep the Colts in playoff contention. That didn't happen. Watching all those games without Peyton, broke my heart again.

Adam's words are encouraging. At least they are much better than if they had been negative or non-commital. And, I don't want to appear to be that debbie downer. I would much rather be the opposite. But, the truth is that have built a shell around myself. I don't want to have my heart broken again.

I don't want to offend anyone, but until we hear news that confirms (without a doubt) the status of Peyton's health; I refuse to put much stock into anything negative or postive that is said. If that makes me a debbie downer, then so be it.

Well I agree with everything you said and if that makes me a Debbie Downer I will join your club. :highfive:

[Happy2BeHere]

Well I agree with everything you said and if that makes me a Debbie Downer I will join your club. :highfive:

Let's all be DOWNERS!