Thoughts on next season and beyond....

[Defjamz26]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Settling for mediocrity?      Since when?

 

You do know there's a salary cap in place?        And we only have so many draft picks?

 

No one is settling for anything close to mediocrity.   

 

This game is hard!      Or haven't you noticed the two teams in the last Super Bowl are likely not making the playoffs.     And neither is Arizona, who was the pre-season favorite this year.     And Seattle is breaking down at the worst time.     And Baltimore is going to miss the post-season for the 3rd time in the last 4 years and they're a very well run organization.      Cindy isn't making the post-season after 5 straight years in the playoffs.     New Orleans still can't figure out it's salary cap problems.      

 

I mean,  how many examples do you need to see of good teams,  well run franchises,  that won't make the playoffs this year....       The NFL is hard.     It's not easy to make the playoffs every year.     If it was,  everyone would do it....

 

I'm not trying to bust your chops here....    there are lots of people who think just as you do.....     I'm just trying to show a different perspective for consideration.

 

 

 

That's the thing. The Colts are not a good team, and although Irsay is one of the better owners in the league, Grigson makes it so we're not a well run team at least in the GM department.

 

Keeping Pagano and Grigson is the definition of settling for mediocrity. They're both respectively mediocre at their jobs. Those teams you mentioned (except for maybe the Cardinals) have a GM and/or HC who is above average or better at their job which is why those teams stay good longer. The Ravens and Broncos might still finish above .500. Like you said, Cincy was good for 5 straight years. The Colts under Grigson and Pagano were good for 3 years. They haven't accomplished anything since and the team is trending downwards.

[TDE]

My ideas probably won't meet with a lot of approval, but I'll leave the thought anyway.  We have an outstanding QB but without a really awesome OL the QB is pretty much ineffectual as this season proved.  You can have the greatest QB that ever lived and if he doesn't have time to pass; it matters not.  AND THAT IS THE CRUX OF WHAT i'M SAYING.  LUCK DOESN'T MATTER!  We would be way better off with an average QB behind an outstanding OL.  Toss in a couple of decent running backs, keep your receivers, and now you have a competitive "FOOTBALL TEAM".  The Colts need to take a lesson from Dallas if you will.  A great OL an average QB with some good receivers and some talent at Running Back.  You have that formula you have a "GREAT TEAM" a "WINNING TEAM"  or you can have an overpaid QB that prohibits you ever developing an outstanding OL because he costs too much.  DUMP LUCK, Hire a Line that matters with the $ now available, and you're on your way to the SB.  The coaching blunders were many, but our problems aren't really on the sideline.  They are on the field.  Trade Luck, tell Grigson to hire a great OL or else and lets get on with it.  The defense needs improvement but its not the cost factor that Luck represents.  He'll never be an outstanding QB in Indianapolis and maybe not anywhere else because he simply costs too much for what he can deliver.

[Myles]

6 hours ago, The Fish said:

 

 

How bad do you think Andrew is? 

I think Luck is very good.     I don't think he will last taking the hits he has taken though.   I don't think the team  has enough to withstand any bad or average games Luck may have.   We can't win with our defense and we can't win with our running game.   It's Luck or bust and I don't think that will translate into many winning seasons. 

[coltsva]

4 hours ago, TDE said:

My ideas probably won't meet with a lot of approval, but I'll leave the thought anyway.  We have an outstanding QB but without a really awesome OL the QB is pretty much ineffectual as this season proved.  You can have the greatest QB that ever lived and if he doesn't have time to pass; it matters not.  AND THAT IS THE CRUX OF WHAT i'M SAYING.  LUCK DOESN'T MATTER!  We would be way better off with an average QB behind an outstanding OL.  Toss in a couple of decent running backs, keep your receivers, and now you have a competitive "FOOTBALL TEAM".  The Colts need to take a lesson from Dallas if you will.  A great OL an average QB with some good receivers and some talent at Running Back.  You have that formula you have a "GREAT TEAM" a "WINNING TEAM"  or you can have an overpaid QB that prohibits you ever developing an outstanding OL because he costs too much.  DUMP LUCK, Hire a Line that matters with the $ now available, and you're on your way to the SB.  The coaching blunders were many, but our problems aren't really on the sideline.  They are on the field.  Trade Luck, tell Grigson to hire a great OL or else and lets get on with it.  The defense needs improvement but its not the cost factor that Luck represents.  He'll never be an outstanding QB in Indianapolis and maybe not anywhere else because he simply costs too much for what he can deliver.

In the salary cap era (1994-now), the winning quarterbacks have been:

Young, Aikmen, Favre, Elway(2), Warner, Dilfer, Brady(4), Johnson, Roethlisberger(2), Peyton Manning(2), Eli Manning(2), Brees, Rogers, Flacco, Wilson. Although you can win without a great quarterback, your chances of doing so are very, very low. 

 

Except for Steve Young (13.1%), none of these quarterbacks took up more than 12% of the teams salary cap. Luck was under that number this year, and will be under it next year. 

[coltsva]

One other item, Dallas quarterback Tony Romo has a salary cap hit of 20.8 million this year. 

[GwinnettColt]

On 12/26/2016 at 6:25 PM, tomloge said:

This has to be the worst tackling team I've ever seen.  I'm 195 pounds soaking wet, 62 years old.  I'm not so sure they could bring me down.  

 

Drives me crazy.

 

That and the DB's giving 20 yard cushions on the WRs.

[colts_100nascar17fan]

If no changes or very few changes expect last place in the division cuz houston will have watt back and probably better qb play, Jacksonville will finally be good with new coaching, Tennessee will be even better if mariota comes back to normal after his leg injury. The  Colts d is by far the worst in the division,  the o line is the worst, 3rd worst wr group, 3rd worst rb group.

[Colts1324]

On 12/26/2016 at 4:33 PM, BPindy said:

 

As far as Anderson goes, it's common for a player to look less capable than normal for one season after coming back from an ACL injury. I expect him to look much better next season 

I really do too. He is only in husband second season as well. The third year is typically a players "break out year." Anderson, Geathers, Davis, Ridgeway, and Edwin Jackson are the good pieces on this defense. 

[esmort]

11 hours ago, TDE said:

My ideas probably won't meet with a lot of approval, but I'll leave the thought anyway.  We have an outstanding QB but without a really awesome OL the QB is pretty much ineffectual as this season proved.  You can have the greatest QB that ever lived and if he doesn't have time to pass; it matters not.  AND THAT IS THE CRUX OF WHAT i'M SAYING.  LUCK DOESN'T MATTER!  We would be way better off with an average QB behind an outstanding OL.  Toss in a couple of decent running backs, keep your receivers, and now you have a competitive "FOOTBALL TEAM".  The Colts need to take a lesson from Dallas if you will.  A great OL an average QB with some good receivers and some talent at Running Back.  You have that formula you have a "GREAT TEAM" a "WINNING TEAM"  or you can have an overpaid QB that prohibits you ever developing an outstanding OL because he costs too much.  DUMP LUCK, Hire a Line that matters with the $ now available, and you're on your way to the SB.  The coaching blunders were many, but our problems aren't really on the sideline.  They are on the field.  Trade Luck, tell Grigson to hire a great OL or else and lets get on with it.  The defense needs improvement but its not the cost factor that Luck represents.  He'll never be an outstanding QB in Indianapolis and maybe not anywhere else because he simply costs too much for what he can deliver.

 

Ridiculous...an elite QB is one of the keys to a perennially good franchise. Luck's salary is not what is holding this team back. 

[bluephantom87]

12 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

How have they been declining for the past few years?  Two years ago, they were in the AFC championship game.  Last year, they didn't have Luck for 9 games.  This year, 2016, is the ONLY season they've declined, and for the life of me I don't understand how people could have not expected that to be a possibility considering all of the change in the coaching staff as well as scheme changes.

 

 

My thoughts on that are that it's the dumbest thing I've read in a long time and can't believe anyone would even take it seriously, let alone agree with it.

 

Aww... Mr Jason S the king of demeaning replies to other members that usually has some type of personal shot but I guess YOUR opinion is the one that matters. Lol  As I told you before in the past you can agree or not, chose to read or not but lose me with all that extra. Too many times people HIDE behind the keyboard and say things they couldn't tell you in person. At the end of the day I'm just talking Colt football and it's my opinion just like what Greg Doyel said in the Indy Star was his. Irsay can do what he wants to do with the gm or hc but I'm quite sure he's aware of how his franchise is viewed as of late from the fan base (not all), the national media as well as the local media.

 

I am very aware of that season two years ago (no playoffs since either) the last in which they SWEPT the pitiful AFC south going 6-0 but 5-6 against the rest of the league including some huge BEATDOWN losses against the big boys in which the games were not even close. Some playoff runs come with a little luck that no one will give back or apologize for and the Colts received that in playing a Cincy team at home WITHOUT their top weapon in Green. Was followed with playing a hurt Manning in Denver which led to the ABSOLUTE embarrassing no contest AFC title game that mirrored the season as far as results against the upper tier teams. So of course I enjoyed the run but I also saw some major problems then that could LEAD to a decline later under this duo. Now I ask what will NEXT year's excuse be if Chuck is retained because the downward spiral has begun.

[braveheartcolt]

Our Defense is pretty bad, our Offense is pretty good. Unfortunately 'fixing' areas of weakness in a parity based NFL is not that simple. But at least we know where to start. And whether we need to start with the GM and HC is another conundrum, but I will leave that to those who are accountable.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

Aww... Mr Jason S the king of demeaning replies to other members that usually has some type of personal shot but I guess YOUR opinion is the one that matters. Lol  As I told you before in the past you can agree or not, chose to read or not but lose me with all that extra. Too many times people HIDE behind the keyboard and say things they couldn't tell you in person. At the end of the day I'm just talking Colt football and it's my opinion just like what Greg Doyel said in the Indy Star was his. Irsay can do what he wants to do with the gm or hc but I'm quite sure he's aware of how his franchise is viewed as of late from the fan base (not all), the national media as well as the local media.

 

I am very aware of that season two years ago (no playoffs since either) the last in which they SWEPT the pitiful AFC south going 6-0 but 5-6 against the rest of the league including some huge BEATDOWN losses against the big boys in which the games were not even close. Some playoff runs come with a little luck that no one will give back or apologize for and the Colts received that in playing a Cincy team at home WITHOUT their top weapon in Green. Was followed with playing a hurt Manning in Denver which led to the ABSOLUTE embarrassing no contest AFC title game that mirrored the season as far as results against the upper tier teams. So of course I enjoyed the run but I also saw some major problems then that could LEAD to a decline later under this duo. Now I ask what will NEXT year's excuse be if Chuck is retained because the downward spiral has begun.

 

No good owner in any sport should be reactive to fans and media.      If you trust the people you hire to do their job right and they have belief in the coaching staff,  then you let them do their job and you stay out of the way.

 

Responding to the fan base and the media is a disaster waiting to happen.     It's the worst thing a franchise can do.

 

[bluephantom87]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No good owner in any sport should be reactive to fans and media.      If you trust the people you hire to do their job right and they have belief in the coaching staff,  then you let them do their job and you stay out of the way.

 

Responding to the fan base and the media is a disaster waiting to happen.     It's the worst thing a franchise can do.

 

 

True to some degree but the NFL is still an entertainment business in which the fans generate the money, ratings etc. When your product starts to decline ticket sales fall and fans start to tune out. Prime time games become less and before long your team becomes a non factor. To me Irsay has given Chuck and Grigson a shot. This is not their 1st or 2nd season, if retained it will be their sixth which includes missing the playoffs the last two seasons while residing in what many feel as the worst division in football. I agree that you trust the people you hire but when a decline starts to happen on that watch and you are no closer to being a contender for the SB while having a franchise qb at your disposal the evaluation of jobs will begin. Remember last year was almost D-day for the duo and the outcry was nowhere near like it is now. For me I just believe that some upgrades are needed because this tandem has ran its course. Do I think a polished GM along with a Harbaugh, Gruden, Cowher or even McDaniels can get this going in the right direction... ABSOLUTLEY!

[Myles]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No good owner in any sport should be reactive to fans and media.      If you trust the people you hire to do their job right and they have belief in the coaching staff,  then you let them do their job and you stay out of the way.

 

Responding to the fan base and the media is a disaster waiting to happen.     It's the worst thing a franchise can do.

 

But the owner should pay attention to some degree.   If the fans and the media are saying something, there may be truth to it.   Keeping your head buried in the sand is not good.  

As fans, many of us have watched every game the past few years and know that this team is lacking players and coaching.   It is not an illusion.   As Phantom said above, even the AFC championship game run was not an accurate assessment of the teams talent.  

[Jason_]

7 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

Aww... Mr Jason S the king of demeaning replies to other members that usually has some type of personal shot but I guess YOUR opinion is the one that matters.

 

Where was the personal shot in that reply?  The only shot I took was at Doyel's opinion.

 

Quote

Too many times people HIDE behind the keyboard and say things they couldn't tell you in person.

 

Pick a bar. ;)

 

Quote

At the end of the day I'm just talking Colt football and it's my opinion just like what Greg Doyel said in the Indy Star was his. Irsay can do what he wants to do with the gm or hc but I'm quite sure he's aware of how his franchise is viewed as of late from the fan base (not all), the national media as well as the local media.

 

And as NCF said, Irsay shouldn't pay even the slightest bit of attention to the views of the fan base or the national media.

Quote

Now I ask what will NEXT year's excuse be if Chuck is retained because the downward spiral has begun.

 

Well that's the thing, I disagree about the downward spiral having begun.  As I said before, struggles this season should have been expected just based on the fact that they brought in pretty much an entirely new coaching staff, which was going to lead to scheme changes, terminology changes etc.  Plus adding 4 new rookies to the OL group of which they typically only keep 8-9 on the active roster.  Then add all the injuries that occurred, especially to that OL group and to the secondary.

 

In my honest opinion, neither Chuck nor Grigson are the problem at this point...Chud is.  Granted he came out with a great game plan and playcalling against the Vikings, and if he can build on that moving forward then great.  But far more often than not I've not been a fan of his playcalling or general game planning and a highly inconsistent offense can hurt our own defense even more than a lack of playmaking talent.

 

So, long story short, I absolutely think things will improve next year.  But if Chuck and Grigson are kept, and the team does remain as inconsistent as this season then I'll be right on the fire them both bandwagon.

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

Where was the personal shot in that reply?  The only shot I took was at Doyel's opinion.

 

 

Pick a bar. ;)

 

 

And as NCF said, Irsay shouldn't pay even the slightest bit of attention to the views of the fan base or the national media.

 

Well that's the thing, I disagree about the downward spiral having begun.  As I said before, struggles this season should have been expected just based on the fact that they brought in pretty much an entirely new coaching staff, which was going to lead to scheme changes, terminology changes etc.  Plus adding 4 new rookies to the OL group of which they typically only keep 8-9 on the active roster.  Then add all the injuries that occurred, especially to that OL group and to the secondary.

 

In my honest opinion, neither Chuck nor Grigson are the problem at this point...Chud is.  Granted he came out with a great game plan and playcalling against the Vikings, and if he can build on that moving forward then great.  But far more often than not I've not been a fan of his playcalling or general game planning and a highly inconsistent offense can hurt our own defense even more than a lack of playmaking talent.

 

So, long story short, I absolutely think things will improve next year.  But if Chuck and Grigson are kept, and the team does remain as inconsistent as this season then I'll be right on the fire them both bandwagon.

Most of us aren't willing to go through another year of this with Grigson and Pagano.  

[Jason_]

Just now, Myles said:

Most of us aren't willing to go through another year of this with Grigson and Pagano.  

 

who cares?  If Irsay decides to keep them, which imo is what is likely to happen, then you'll have no choice. 

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

who cares?  If Irsay decides to keep them, which imo is what is likely to happen, then you'll have no choice. 

This is a forum.   People get to give their opinions.    If Irsay decides to fire them, you will have to deal with that.   

Hopefully that is the choice he makes.    Go Jags!

[tfunky14]

A good coach makes a good point.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/bill-belichick-says-coaches-fired-quickly-122816

 

[Jason_]

Just now, Myles said:

This is a forum.   People get to give their opinions.   

 

I agree.  However you didn't give an opinion.  "I think they should be fired at the end of the season."  <-- That's giving an opinion.  Saying what you and/or others aren't willing to do in terms of a decision that you have zero input on is just weird.

 

Quote

 

If Irsay decides to fire them, you will have to deal with that.   

Hopefully that is the choice he makes.    Go Jags!

 

 

You're right.  And I'll have no problem with that.  I do think they deserve another year, considering the overhaul of the coaching staff last offseason, but if Irsay decides it's time to move on then so be it.  I really don't think that's going to happen though, and it's even less likely for the decision to ride on the outcome of a meaningless Jags game.   

[aaron11]

8 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

Harbaugh, Gruden, Cowher

these guys are all pretty much off of the table

 

harbaugh would be my first choice, but he's not leaving michigan for the colts. 

 

irsay isnt interested in gruden, he would have been a colt last year if he was

 

i guess nothing is stopping cowher from coming in, but there doesnt seem to be much interest from either side

[Myles]

51 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

I agree.  However you didn't give an opinion.  "I think they should be fired at the end of the season."  <-- That's giving an opinion.  Saying what you and/or others aren't willing to do in terms of a decision that you have zero input on is just weird.

 

 

You're right.  And I'll have no problem with that.  I do think they deserve another year, considering the overhaul of the coaching staff last offseason, but if Irsay decides it's time to move on then so be it.  I really don't think that's going to happen though, and it's even less likely for the decision to ride on the outcome of a meaningless Jags game.   

Hopefully it is THE straw.

With Irsay, anything is possible.  

[tfunky14]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No good owner in any sport should be reactive to fans and media.      If you trust the people you hire to do their job right and they have belief in the coaching staff,  then you let them do their job and you stay out of the way.

 

Responding to the fan base and the media is a disaster waiting to happen.     It's the worst thing a franchise can do.

 

So True New ColtsFan...But unfortunately most on here can't see past their computer screen.

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Myles said:

But the owner should pay attention to some degree.   If the fans and the media are saying something, there may be truth to it.   Keeping your head buried in the sand is not good.  

As fans, many of us have watched every game the past few years and know that this team is lacking players and coaching.   It is not an illusion.   As Phantom said above, even the AFC championship game run was not an accurate assessment of the teams talent.  

 

This is not keeping your head buried in the sand.      This is trusting your own judgement.

 

Billionaires didn't get that rich by not following their own instincts.     They know their own team better than the media and the fan base.       Especially an owner like Irsay who is there inside the building almost every day.

 

He knows his team better than the media and the fan base.     He knows the short-term vision and the long term vision.     He knows the strengths and weaknesses,  the injuries and so on.     Fans and media do know nearly as much.

 

And since fans and media are fickle and change their minds as often as the wind changes,   it's not a good idea to make team decisions based on fan pressure.

 

Remember,   this website reportedly has about 20,000 members.     There are maybe 500 who post on any kind of regular basis.    Everyone else mostly just reads.     There isn't much public fan pressure on Irsay right now.     At least,  not compared to the other 31 teams.     Those owners face much more pressure.

 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

A good coach makes a good point.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/bill-belichick-says-coaches-fired-quickly-122816

 

 

And he got fired too quickly in Cleveland.     So, Belickick knows....

 

[tfunky14]

Yep

[Myles]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This is not keeping your head buried in the sand.      This is trusting your own judgement.

 

Billionaires didn't get that rich by not following their own instincts.     They know their own team better than the media and the fan base.       Especially an owner like Irsay who is there inside the building almost every day.

 

 

To some degree, but they also keep an eye and ear out for what others are saying.

If you replace the head gasket in your car and feel confident everything is good, you still need to listen to others when they tell you that black smoke is billowing from your car.

 

He also didn't exactly earn his money from the ground up.     He's made several questionable decisions through the years.   I have no issue questioning him on the choice to keep these 2 schmucks.

[coltsva]

3 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

A good coach makes a good point.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/bill-belichick-says-coaches-fired-quickly-122816

 

He's right (not that Bill needs my agreement), a lot of coaches do get fired too quickly. However, I don't think 5 years qualifies as too quickly. 

[aaron11]

41 minutes ago, coltsva said:

He's right (not that Bill needs my agreement), a lot of coaches do get fired too quickly. However, I don't think 5 years qualifies as too quickly. 

yeah, a presidential term is only 4 years lol

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, coltsva said:

He's right (not that Bill needs my agreement), a lot of coaches do get fired too quickly. However, I don't think 5 years qualifies as too quickly. 

 

If the colts had been stinking up the joint for those entire 5 years then you would have a point.  However they haven't, so you don't.

[dgambill]

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 10:58 AM, ztboiler said:

We should never stop appreciating what the winningest team of the 2000's accomplished....and during the salary cap era to boot.  It was that special.  Absolutely.

 

Nor should we fail to observe that the team's post season ceiling was set too low by the principles that the team was built on, limiting it's place in history significantly...as well as Manning's.

 

I'm OK with fans that simply pine for a similar run, especially given the last 2 seasons, but I'm in the camp that wants more post season success. 

 

I also believe you have to build differently if you want different...and you have to coach differently too.  

 

The Manning teams were built to jump on you and then finish you off with a devastating pass rush once you had no choice but to throw it down the field.  Perfect fit for regular season wins by the dozens.

 

If, on the other hand, we'd built our defense to be a brick wall against the run, even at risk of giving up some big plays, we'd have maximized our assets by giving the best offense in the league more touches and minimizing the weapon of choice used to beat Manning...ball control.

I honestly don't think we had a bad scheme. Honestly, we got knocked out by the SB champs many times. Your not always going to have the best team every year. I mean losing to a dynasty like NE early on there is no shame in that. Of course we laid a couple eggs too...that Pittsburg loss in 05....uggh..that's a SB winning team right there we had and it had nothing to do with the defense our OL just got over-ran by a team that we blasted during the regular season.  Then we had consecutive losses to San Diego but I wouldn't categorize our defense as losing those games. Neither would I categorize our defense for losing the SB in 2009. I think our offense has come out slow in many playoff games...probably because those teams had really good defenses that got after Peyton. Could we have won more with a great defense...sure but it isn't like our defense was blowing up and giving up 30pts a game in he post-season. We had some special teams blunders...some bad games from the offense...and maybe a bad game here and there from the defense but those teams were favored in most of our games so yes...I would take that again. I would take 1 SB win with almost a decade of consistant success then say the Giants who had two SBs and in 10 years with maybe 3 or 4 post-seasons. I am not going to hate on us for not winning it all every year. To me its about the ride not the destination. Sure I'd love to win a couple more but the week in and week out success and excitement and the hope provided is what gets me wrapped up in the Colts....its why its hard to cheer for this team because they are so inconsistent and so very very lukewarm....puke. Give me bad and stock piling young players and hope over mediocre football any day. I hope we bounce back...I hope we really nail this draft and find one or two FAs that actually improve once coming here as opposed to spending their whole time on IR or disappointing. Here's to 2017....may it bring back our Colts to prominence....whether that be under a different scheme that is more simplistic and less player focused or if we actually build the "monster"......I won't hold my breath on that though.

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This is not keeping your head buried in the sand.      This is trusting your own judgement.

 

Billionaires didn't get that rich by not following their own instincts.     They know their own team better than the media and the fan base.       Especially an owner like Irsay who is there inside the building almost every day.

 

He knows his team better than the media and the fan base.     He knows the short-term vision and the long term vision.     He knows the strengths and weaknesses,  the injuries and so on.     Fans and media do know nearly as much.

 

And since fans and media are fickle and change their minds as often as the wind changes,   it's not a good idea to make team decisions based on fan pressure.

 

Remember,   this website reportedly has about 20,000 members.     There are maybe 500 who post on any kind of regular basis.    Everyone else mostly just reads.     There isn't much public fan pressure on Irsay right now.     At least,  not compared to the other 31 teams.     Those owners face much more pressure.

 

Uhh...not sure Jim did anything on his own to become a billionaire other than have his father pass away. I mean he didn't exactly build a business from the ground up. I'm not going to say he isn't intelligent and I DEFINATELY won't say he doesn't know whats going on inside the organization...clearly he does more than any other fan. That doesn't mean however his judgement on what to do with this coaching/manager staff is right. You are correct that the pressure here isn't overwhelming like it would be in New York or other markets but this fan base is very limited. Its a small market with limited incomes and well easily could be effected by how this team performs. There is no doubt if the Colts tank in the next few years you would see Lucas Oil half empty....these fans are loyal to a good product (see Colts and Pacers when they were good).....but if your not putting up a good value they will take their limited income and spend it elsewhere.  He definitely has to keep his eyes and ears very close to the heart of his fanbase because he could see this thing head south fast.

 

All in all I don't think he is going to make a change this offseason unless he lures a big fish out there or they show interest in coming to coach Andrew. Honestly the moves we made last offseason by Grigson seem to be stabilizing our OL issues and we didn't go bonkers in FA so we have some cap saved up so he didn't strike out there. Grigson has done a better job so if we were going to kick him to the curb we would have done that last year. Pagano I think has a pretty good relationship with the players on this team. They never give up...they bounce back...they fight...but I just don't see the adjustments in the game plans..the creativity for Chuck to be a guy that can get a team over the top. I think he will be back too but he probably has a short leash. He has put together some good games this year but if we continue to lose to divisional opponents I think it will be hard to retain him. So yeah...I think we hold pat and take another roll at this with what we have with all eyes on what Ryan and Chuck do in 2017. If its the same mediocre team...with as many misses as hits on personnel and as many losses as wins then we will see a new regime and Irsay won't have to be begged to make changes. If they turn it around and we make the playoffs...then their jobs will likely be safe.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Uhh...not sure Jim did anything on his own to become a billionaire other than have his father pass away. I mean he didn't exactly build a business from the ground up. I'm not going to say he isn't intelligent and I DEFINATELY won't say he doesn't know whats going on inside the organization...clearly he does more than any other fan. That doesn't mean however his judgement on what to do with this coaching/manager staff is right. You are correct that the pressure here isn't overwhelming like it would be in New York or other markets but this fan base is very limited. Its a small market with limited incomes and well easily could be effected by how this team performs. There is no doubt if the Colts tank in the next few years you would see Lucas Oil half empty....these fans are loyal to a good product (see Colts and Pacers when they were good).....but if your not putting up a good value they will take their limited income and spend it elsewhere.  He definitely has to keep his eyes and ears very close to the heart of his fanbase because he could see this thing head south fast.

 

All in all I don't think he is going to make a change this offseason unless he lures a big fish out there or they show interest in coming to coach Andrew. Honestly the moves we made last offseason by Grigson seem to be stabilizing our OL issues and we didn't go bonkers in FA so we have some cap saved up so he didn't strike out there. Grigson has done a better job so if we were going to kick him to the curb we would have done that last year. Pagano I think has a pretty good relationship with the players on this team. They never give up...they bounce back...they fight...but I just don't see the adjustments in the game plans..the creativity for Chuck to be a guy that can get a team over the top. I think he will be back too but he probably has a short leash. He has put together some good games this year but if we continue to lose to divisional opponents I think it will be hard to retain him. So yeah...I think we hold pat and take another roll at this with what we have with all eyes on what Ryan and Chuck do in 2017. If its the same mediocre team...with as many misses as hits on personnel and as many losses as wins then we will see a new regime and Irsay won't have to be begged to make changes. If they turn it around and we make the playoffs...then their jobs will likely be safe.

 

Have the Colts been one of the best run organizations for the last 20 years?     The numbers say yes.    The 2nd wnningest franchise behind only New England.

 

That doesn't happen by mistake.      Part of the reason the Colts have been as good as they've been is Jim Irsay.

 

[BOTT]

On 12/27/2016 at 11:55 AM, tfunky14 said:

"Unless changes are made" 

The Main Factor will be Firing Pagano & Pags

 

 

Really...lets change coach/GM every year like the Browns/Jets then we'll be just like them...

 

Every year?  This is year five of Grigson and Pagano.

[Myles]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Have the Colts been one of the best run organizations for the last 20 years?     The numbers say yes.    The 2nd wnningest franchise behind only New England.

 

That doesn't happen by mistake.      Part of the reason the Colts have been as good as they've been is Jim Irsay.

 

Yes, but mostly because of Manning and Luck.

[deedub75]

The records against the Steelers and Pats alone should be enough to let them both go. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Yes, but mostly because of Manning and Luck.

 

And hiring Bill Polian and Ryan Grigson.     And hiring Tony Dungy and Jim Caldwell and Chuck Pagano.

 

And lots of behind the scenes people that most people here don't know about.      It takes a whole organization.

 

When a franchise like Cleveland or J'Ville sucks for year after year after year,  the number one reason is bad management at the top.      And that starts with the owner.

 

[Myles]

30 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

And hiring Bill Polian and Ryan Grigson.     And hiring Tony Dungy and Jim Caldwell and Chuck Pagano.

 

And lots of behind the scenes people that most people here don't know about.      It takes a whole organization.

 

When a franchise like Cleveland or J'Ville sucks for year after year after year,  the number one reason is bad management at the top.      And that starts with the owner.

 

Yes the owner who settles for an incompetent GM and head coach.

[Jason_]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

Yes the owner who settles for an incompetent GM and head coach.

 

neither Grigson nor Pagano are incompetent.  They've both made mistakes, but so have you and so have I.  That does not indicate incompetence.

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

neither Grigson nor Pagano are incompetent.  They've both made mistakes, but so have you and so have I.  That does not indicate incompetence.

I disagree. This team is full of below average players who cannot tackle.   That is incompetence on both GRigson and Pagano.