Sb 46 Will Be A Lose-Lose For Peyton Manning Fans.

[lance.acres]

Relax...I'm agreeing. I'm saying that you are correct in that you cant often draw conclusions from an isolated play, or a single win, or a individual situation. You need to look at an entire body of work and not cherry pick one play in order to prove an actual point.

My apologies. I took your comment out of context.

[dynasty13]

My apologies. I took your comment out of context.

I probably came across as confrontational...no worries.

[achcolts]

If Giants win... if anything, I see that fueling peyton even more and making him hungrier for his 2nd ring when hes back. colts superbowl 2012 =D

[WoolMagnet]

If Eli wins then we all have to hear about Eli being the "better Manning."

If Brady wins, people will argue he is hands down the best because of the 4 rings.

What a horrible season this truly has been.

Who cares.

Those yo-yos can believe whatever they want.

WE know better!

[DILLIGAFER]

Who cares.

Those yo-yos can believe whatever they want.

WE know better!

I'll tell you what. If people say Brady is better because he wins this superbowl, they arent worth the breath of acknowledging. Take it from Brady himself. He said Peyton was the best qb ever in his opinion. Argue he could have said he compares with/other great qb's, fine knock yourself out. My point is Brady is smart enough to realize the greatness of Peyton regardless of the number of superbowls he has won. Take it from Brady himself, Peyton is one, and in his opinion, the greastest qb to ever play the game. Period.

[WoolMagnet]

I'll tell you what. If people say Brady is better because he wins this superbowl, they arent worth the breath of acknowledging. Take it from Brady himself. He said Peyton was the best qb ever in his opinion. Argue he could have said he compares with/other great qb's, fine knock yourself out. My point is Brady is smart enough to realize the greatness of Peyton regardless of the number of superbowls he has won. Take it from Brady himself, Peyton is one, and in his opinion, the greastest qb to ever play the game. Period.

Brady receives some "hatred" from me mainly because he broke my heart so many times in the playoffs because he is a great QB. You have to admit that. If he played on probably ANY other team I would most likely appreciate him more. Would he be the QB is is at NE? Who knows. The Cassel thing makes you wonder but I'll give Brady the respect I think he deserves. Our win at home in 2006 allowed me to "bury the hatchet" with Brady. All my "demons" were released.

I also have grown some respect for Kraft. From what I've seen and heard I like him.

Its mainly belichek that has helped to fire my "hatred" of the Pats. His style is irritating. The metoric rise from a LOUSY stint in Cleveland to near-Godlike success in NE really makes me doubt his overall character. Some of that naturally spills over to those around him (Brady, players, etc) I've learned in life, where there's smoke there's fire. there are no coincidenses in life either. Spygate, then the recordings, the "stolen" playbooks from the visitor locker room, Belichek's foolin around with other women, etc makes me think this guy will do ANYTHING to win. he already kinda has.

Its unfortunate because that "skews" my image of Brady.

You gotta give Brady credit. However, the way I compare manning and brady is if I imagine swithching them on each's team. What do you think the records/Super Bowls would look like?

In my mind, Brady would have done worse than manning on the Colts and I feel manning could at least done what Brady did in NE.

But what do I know, I'm biased as heck.

[GoColts8818]

If Giants win... if anything, I see that fueling peyton even more and making him hungrier for his 2nd ring when hes back. colts superbowl 2012 =D

You know I was listening to the radio tonight and they brought up that point saying that they think if Eli does win it's just going to fuel Peyton to come back even more.

[DILLIGAFER]

Brady receives some "hatred" from me mainly because he broke my heart so many times in the playoffs because he is a great QB. You have to admit that. If he played on probably ANY other team I would most likely appreciate him more. Would he be the QB is is at NE? Who knows. The Cassel thing makes you wonder but I'll give Brady the respect I think he deserves. Our win at home in 2006 allowed me to "bury the hatchet" with Brady. All my "demons" were released.

I also have grown some respect for Kraft. From what I've seen and heard I like him.

Its mainly belichek that has helped to fire my "hatred" of the Pats. His style is irritating. The metoric rise from a LOUSY stint in Cleveland to near-Godlike success in NE really makes me doubt his overall character. Some of that naturally spills over to those around him (Brady, players, etc) I've learned in life, where there's smoke there's fire. there are no coincidenses in life either. Spygate, then the recordings, the "stolen" playbooks from the visitor locker room, Belichek's foolin around with other women, etc makes me think this guy will do ANYTHING to win. he already kinda has.

Its unfortunate because that "skews" my image of Brady.

You gotta give Brady credit. However, the way I compare manning and brady is if I imagine swithching them on each's team. What do you think the records/Super Bowls would look like?

In my mind, Brady would have done worse than manning on the Colts and I feel manning could at least done what Brady did in NE.

But what do I know, I'm biased as heck.

I gotta say, it came off as directed at you which was not my intentions. Sorry for that. Im in total agreement with you.

[Revis FL]

When it comes down to it, all that matters is the entire resume. No one cares whether you played in a dome or whether you had a crappy defense all those years. No one will remember that stuff except the die hard fans. What it will come down to when determining the best QB is the overall resume.

Right now Tom Brady has a better overall resume than Peyton Manning. I am not going to be a homer and play what if games with Manning being on other potential teams or if he had a defense or not.

If Brady wins this 4th SB, it will be extremely hard to make a case for Manning as the better QB. The rings argument doesn't work anymore because alongside his 4th potential ring, Brady will have the stats behind him unlike Bradshaw. You do not throw for 50 TDs and 5k+ yards if you are a 'Bradshaw' type of quarterback. Those are Marino type of numbers with Montana like results. Even Joe Montana who is regarded as the G.O.A.T amongst many doesn't have very good career stats or individual stats. His 4-0 record, incredible SB QB Rating and playoff QB rating is what set him apart. He did this all in the 80's. He didn't have any 50 TD seasons.

The only thing Brady winning a 4th SB would show is that the Patriots are a great team.

Seriously, does anybody look at the game of football as 1v1? Because it sure seems that way. I can somewhat understand that aspect in basketball, but in football? 22 players on the field at once? I know the QB is the most important position but there are SO many variables to just one single play, let alone a whole game, that it's literally impossible for anyone to definitively say who is the best player.

Let me throw this aspect at you. Who has been the better team from 2001-2011, the Colts or Patriots? The answer is obvious. Patriots. So why is it that this angle works for the team, but when someone uses the team argument for Peyton it doesn't work? Brady and Manning are not that far off. Every football coach on the planet would take either one of those guys. So considering how close they are talent wise, why is it that one player has 2 more rings and is on the verge of having 3 more? Are you really going to say it's because one player is so much worse in the Playoffs than the other? Statistics prove that false. Again, Brady has not been Mr. Clutch or the 2nd coming of Jesus in the Playoffs. He won a freaking Super Bowl with a total of 145 yards passing. He's been FAR more of a game manager in the Playoffs than people realize. Not that Peyton is an outstanding Playoff performer either, because he's had his off moments too, but the point is that when he has a bad game or throws a pick it's much more costly to the Colts than it is to the Pats when Brady does the same.

[achcolts]

You know I was listening to the radio tonight and they brought up that point saying that they think if Eli does win it's just going to fuel Peyton to come back even more.

What ! Atleast im not the only one that thinks that! But come on, take into effect how competitive Peyton is. You can just picture him going.. "No no, no way my little bro is going to have more rings than me." Its a big bro-little bro type of thing

[GoColts8818]

What ! Atleast im not the only one that thinks that! But come on, take into effect how competitive Peyton is. You can just picture him going.. "No no, no way my little bro is going to have more rings than me." Its a big bro-little bro type of thing

Well they were saying it from a stand point of Peyton being competitive and being around the Super Bowl like he's going to be with Eli will fuel him to want to get back to that point again and that he can't let his career end the way it might. Kinda a "Hey I want one too" moments brothers have with each other.

[Fx Stryker]

Well they were saying it from a stand point of Peyton being competitive and being around the Super Bowl like he's going to be with Eli will fuel him to want to get back to that point again and that he can't let his career end the way it might. Kinda a "Hey I want one too" moments brothers have with each other.

I think all this talk surrounding Peyton, Eli, Brady, and the first round is going to fuel him for a 38-0 run. . One can dream.

[Sam Brooks]

I would rather Eli win. Any normal individual with half a gnat's brain knows that it takes a team to win a championship.

[WoolMagnet]

I gotta say, it came off as directed at you which was not my intentions. Sorry for that. Im in total agreement with you.

I didn't think it was directed at me in any, way shape or form. i'm serious.

Your post just made me think of my "change" in opinion of brady. And somewhat the comparison with manning.

I really wasn't responding to your post, more like yours linked to mine in my mind.

[WoolMagnet]

Dang, just think if manning would have been healthy this year. The AFC wasn't that strong this year. Good chance we would have been in the playoffs. If we would have made it thru .....

Battle of the Mannings in "Big bro's house".

Dang, that would have been the ultimate!

[quietstrength]

this super bowl is definitely a lose-lose for peyton fans. eli wins, and not only does he have more superbowls, it's clear he can get it done better in pressure situations than peyton. (don't give me the better team stuff, this is a 9-7 team.) brady wins, it ends the peyton's better argument forever. 4 sb wins (3 possible sb mvps), 2 regular season mvps, similar regular season stats except in buik since peyton has played 3 more full years (and less INTs/better career TD/INT ratio), better playoff record, better regular season record, and brady winning with the 31st ranked defense in the league...it would be over. absolutely no argument for peyton. the team stunk this year because curtis painter was the qb and the rest of the players gave up. curtis painter on any team is a 2 win team.

so yeah, while colts fans might be rooting for eli and the giants because "he's a manning" and they hate the pats, it still wouldn't be a good outcome. they were already showing peyton's playoff record/stats compared to eli's during the giants/49ers game.

[johnwaynes44]

I don't agree with this op at all. I think this is a great SB rematch with two outstanding QB's. Brady should be considered one of the best QB's of all time. His post season record and hardware speaks for itself. But I doubt if Eli will ever be considered a better quarterback than Peyton. Peyton's numbers and consistency and ability to call his own plays, read defenses and be a savant of the game will always win out. Eli is a great talent, but is seen as awkward and unpredictable, talented yes, but all time great, no. I really like Eli, but he will never be the player his brother is, no matter how many rings he wins.

I think we should enjoy this Superbowl for what it is. This, oh poor Peyton sentiment...he has to watch Brady and his brother succeed and we are tortured as Colts fans because Peyton somehow moves down the list of all time greats in nonsensical. Peyton has nothing to prove and doesn't need to win another game to solidify his place in history.

[quietstrength]

Peyton is so 2006 to anyone but Colts fans (who are mostly bandwagon Manning fans.) The media doesn't even talk about him anymore except about how he's basically done even if he comes back.

[DILLIGAFER]

Peyton is so 2006 to anyone but Colts fans (who are mostly bandwagon Manning fans.) The media doesn't even talk about him anymore except about how he's basically done even if he comes back.

[IcyRhythms]

No no no. People arent as anti-Peyton Manning as so many of you have convinced yourselves. If he wins a bunch more titles, then that will add to his legacy and go a long way in helping to justify all you crazy Colts fans' claims that hes the greatest of all time. Stop trying to make it seem like its always poor little Peyton who can never catch a break. You guys have been trying to create this narrative of Peyton Manning's career and you're so threatened when another quarterback does anything good.....i mean...it really just doesnt make any sense. Other quarterbacks can accomplish things in this league, and that doesnt mean its at the expense of Peyton Manning and his precious legacy. History will remember him for what he does on the field...you dont have to try so hard to create this narrative and argument for why hes so great.

Judging by your avatar, I would say it's pretty clear you don't support the Colts, or Peyton Manning as a QB. As I looked through some of the other pages of this thread, it came to my attention that you also agree that the entire body of a QB's work should be considered in the discussion of who is the better QB/greatest of all time.

The last six or seven years, the rules and game of football have changed as a whole, and COMPLETELY favor the passing game. Guys like Marino and Unitas put up huge numbers in what would be considered NOW, a different league altogether. There is a reason why Brady and Brees throwing for 5,000+ is less impressive than when Marino did it. While still a great accomplishment, consider the times, the rules that favor QB's, and playcalling from coaching. Coaching is something that Brady has always had to back him up. As many excuses as Colts/Manning fans will continue to make, I think the one that is overlooked most often is the Patriots coaching. The way they draft is also something to be in awe over. That front office and coaching staff can draft a nobody and turn them into a somebody. Which brings me back to the Brady Vs Manning debate.

Tom Brady was taken in the....6th round....if I'm not mistaken? Peyton Manning was taken first overall and expected to be great and far exceeded those expectations. There were no expectations for Tom Brady. The guy has surprised us all and become a good QB. TEAMS win championships and everything else is an individual accomplishment. Peyton Manning is a player that comes along once in every one to two generations. He IS NOT replaceable. We've seen the outcome in statstics when Brady goes down, and now we've seen it with Peyton. That said, when we consider the individual body of work, things like coaching and great decisions by a front office that I'm sure any team in the NFL would love to have should also be in the discussion.

[Freenyfan102]

WE cann all agree that Polian did not build this team very well

[WSO]

The only thing Brady winning a 4th SB would show is that the Patriots are a great team.

Seriously, does anybody look at the game of football as 1v1? Because it sure seems that way. I can somewhat understand that aspect in basketball, but in football? 22 players on the field at once? I know the QB is the most important position but there are SO many variables to just one single play, let alone a whole game, that it's literally impossible for anyone to definitively say who is the best player.

Let me throw this aspect at you. Who has been the better team from 2001-2011, the Colts or Patriots? The answer is obvious. Patriots. So why is it that this angle works for the team, but when someone uses the team argument for Peyton it doesn't work? Brady and Manning are not that far off. Every football coach on the planet would take either one of those guys. So considering how close they are talent wise, why is it that one player has 2 more rings and is on the verge of having 3 more? Are you really going to say it's because one player is so much worse in the Playoffs than the other? Statistics prove that false. Again, Brady has not been Mr. Clutch or the 2nd coming of Jesus in the Playoffs. He won a freaking Super Bowl with a total of 145 yards passing. He's been FAR more of a game manager in the Playoffs than people realize. Not that Peyton is an outstanding Playoff performer either, because he's had his off moments too, but the point is that when he has a bad game or throws a pick it's much more costly to the Colts than it is to the Pats when Brady does the same.

That logic doesn;t make sense to me. So if the Colts and Manning win another 2 Super Bowls that would simply show the Colts were a good team? Lets be honest here, 2006 Manning made some good plays but played pretty average throughout the playoffs. That was an instance where if Manning threw an INT, it didn't cost the Colts as much because the defense was playing at a high level that year. Is it fair to assume Bradys SB rings count as team accomplishments but not Mannings?

I could see the case for Bradshaw and his 4 rings because Bradshaw wasn't very good in the regular season or throughout his career. Brady on the other has been nothing but great the past few seasons. He has the stats to back up the rings. If Brady wins this 4th SB, he will have achieved everything Joe Montana has and MORE and Joe Montana is generally regarded as the goat.

[Rainierjef]

trust me you will never hear the eli is the better manning from giants fans maybe from media * but they do that for ratings, to be villains for... guess what? ratings. we as giants fans know who is better even with the rings. like honestly brady has all those rings but to me honestly i will still take a healthy peyton manning to start my franchise over brady.

[quietstrength]

trust me you will never hear the eli is the better manning from giants fans maybe from media * but they do that for ratings, to be villains for... guess what? ratings. we as giants fans know who is better even with the rings. like honestly brady has all those rings but to me honestly i will still take a healthy peyton manning to start my franchise over brady.

Peyton is more talented than Eli and is good for throwing 6 TDs against garbage teams in a dome, but I'd take Eli in a big game. If Peyton was the QB (even at 100 percent) of the SB instead of Eli, I wouldn't be nearly as scared as I am. Eli reminds me of Brady circa 01-04.

Peyton won his one SB against Rex Grossman and Lovie Smith and that's all he'll ever get, not because of his team around him, because he's not a big-game player (minus that one second half of the AFC title game.)

Edited January 25, 2012 by Maureen
Personal Shot

[ViriLudant]

Yeah look at Peyton's stats the fact the he's the only player in the history of the NFL to win the League MVP award four times. I am sorry that carries more weight than Super Bowl Rings if we are talking about how great a PLAYER is. With that said those things put Peyton in that convo but you can make strong cases for other players as well.

When was the last time you heard someone Jerry Rice was the greatest WR ever because he won four Super Bowl rings or that Marvin Harrison was better than Cris Carter or TIm Brown because he won a ring and they didn't? You don't. It's only for QBs that people try to make that arguement and I don't buy it. Things like playoff wins and Super Bowl rings are team accomplishments not solo players.

*cough*

Except that his teammates are the ones who:

1. Give him time to throw (okay, perhaps not as much as you'd like, but still).

2. Take the handoff from him.

3. Catch the ball.

4. Run the correct routes.

Among others.

Please, the MVP is still a team award. Heck, Peyton has said so as well. No QB can do what he does without someone to block, catch the ball, etc.

[ViriLudant]

I am just buildingoff what you are saying here so don't take this as me disagreeing with you.

That's the thing when you look at the rest of what Eli and Peyton have done Eli doesn't stack up to Peyton. With all due respect to Eli Manning. That's not saying Eli isn't a great QB and shouldn't be getting praise for this season. I said it earlier this year I think Eli Manning was the MVP of this season even with Brees and Brady breaking records and Rodgers leading the Pack attack all season.

However, Peyton has won four League MVPs, Eli hasn't even won one. Eli's career numbers don't stack up to Peyton's and aren't on pace to stack up to Peyton's. Also unless Eli wins in two weeks his Super Bowl record will be the same as his brother's and his teams will have missed the playoffs more times already in his career than Peyton's teams have so if we want to take team accomplishments into this that has to factor into this as well.

I will say this I think Eli is becoming a monster in the fourth quarter. I really think he is calmer than Peyton and while Peyton is clutch in the fourth as well I don't think he's as clutch as his brother. Eli never gets rattled, never. He's very much like Brady in that regard. Which is part of why I think Eli works so well in New York he doesn't let all the the things that come with being the QB in New York bother him. I forget who I heard saying it, it might have been Strahan, but I remember when Eli went on the first Super Bowl run I heard someone doing an interview and was asked how does Eli handle the pressure of playing in New York so well and the guy said "He's Peyton Manning's little brother if he can handle that he can handle a little thing like playing in New York."

Now with Tom Brady it's a little different. Tom has a lot of rings and has numbers that while still not as good as Peyton's for the most part they are in the ballpark. Peyton has four League MVP trophis Brady has two for example. Brady owns several NFL records but not as many as Peyton. So like I said before you can make a very strong case for Tom Brady being better than Peyton Manning. You can also make a strong case for Peyton being better than Tom Brady and it's frankly going to come down to which one you happen to like more.

Do Super Bowl rings enhance a player's legacy? Sure. I think Tim Brown and Cris Carter would have a much easier time getting into the Hall of Fame if they had one. I think Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton or Jim Kelly's names would come up more when we were talking about the greatest QBs of all-time if they won one. I think Elway's name and Johnny U's names would come up less if they hadn't won one. Terry Bradshaw, Steve Young, and Troy Aikman would have been seen as good QBs for their day but forgotten once the next generation came around without them. My main point is that they aren't the end all be all that some Pats fans try to make them out to be at times. Some of them act like they are a tie breaker or because Brady has more it's a trump card on Peyton Manning that tops anything else he's done. I don't see it that way. I think you can factor them into a player's career but they are only a factor and that's largely because they are a team accomplishment not a solo player's.

If the only thing Brady had was his Super Bowl rings it would be like trying to compare Big Ben to Peyton Manning in terms of who is a better QB. MOST people don't even see that as an arguement. With that said it's pretty clear Tom Brady has more than rings which is why there is a real and honest debate there that is just going to come down to which one you like better.

Quick question:

Off the top of your head, what NFL records does Peyton have? I know you'll look them up, but I can't think of ONE important NFL record that Peyton has.

The two most "important" are yards in a season and TDs in a season. Peyton has neither. Brady has one of them, and would have had them both if Brees hadn't had such a year.

Brady does the most important thing a QB does: lead his team to wins. He has a much higher winning percentage than Peyton. He blows Peyton out of the water in playoff records. Yes, I know, wins are a team thing, but the QB is easily the most important position, otherwise people wouldn't argue so much about it all the time. And teams wouldn't pay their QBs so much if they weren't so important.

[ViriLudant]

I know that but I talk to people about who is the better quarterback, Manning or Brady. And the point that I'm trying to make is that yes, Super Bowls have a very big bearing on your legacy as a QB, but as a pure quarterback? Peyton has proven that he has the best skill set of quarterbacks doing so much with so little. There are very few people in the history of the NFL who could do what Peyton did in Indy with the people around him over the past decade, which makes him the best pure player to ever play the position, not best winner or best "quarterback" that people define with championships heavily influencing their decision. And many people will not understand that because people are fans of other teams and never had to sit around and watch the guy who could have been the best player to ever play the game without an argument if he had the right personnel around him, both players and front office.

WITH SO LITTLE?!?!

Two HOF WRs in Harrison and Wayne.

Two outstanding TEs in Clark and Pollard.

Great RBs in James, Addai, and one HOFer in Faulk.

An outstanding O-line up until a few years ago.

Terrific complementary WRs such as Stockley, Collie, among others.

Please. For a decade Peyton was given an outstanding offense to work with. The Colts' defense was built to hold the leads that Peyton helped build.

[ACollie17]

WITH SO LITTLE?!?!

Two HOF WRs in Harrison and Wayne.

Two outstanding TEs in Clark and Pollard.

Great RBs in James, Addai, and one HOFer in Faulk.

An outstanding O-line up until a few years ago.

Terrific complementary WRs such as Stockley, Collie, among others.

Please. For a decade Peyton was given an outstanding offense to work with. The Colts' defense was built to hold the leads that Peyton helped build.

The defense was built to hold Peyton's lead? So what happens if the offense has an off day or plays a very good defense? Too many times the offense had to be perfect. You can't build a defense saying "Oh well the offense is awesome so as long as they put up a lot of points, the defense will be able to hold." How about the span in 2010 where Peyton threw 11 picks in three games? We lost all three. And in two of those three games, we put up 28 and 35 points. Granted, one of those games was against NE, but the other was against Dallas. When Indy puts up 35 points on the Dallas Cowboys, they should win the game, but the defense blew it. And those are just the three games that the defense has let down. Yes, Marvin and Wayne are excellent WRs. Peyton makes Clark look better than he is IMO. Yes, Edge and Faulk are excellent RBs (Addai isn't great). The PASS BLOCK for the O-line has always been above average. About the complementary WRs, Peyton also makes them look very good. But I was talking about not getting defensive help. Possibly the most common saying in the NFL is "Defense wins championships". In the early 2000s when we had Edge and Faulk, the defense was sub-par. The defense has picked it up I guess in the later years of the decade, but the running game gradually became non-existant. All cylanders were never fully firing at one time, expect during the Super Bowl run.

[ViriLudant]

So KP, what about the earlier posts that proved that the Colts had defenses that were in the top 10 for scoring four separate times?

The Patriots have a defense right now that was ranked 14th in scoring, 31st in yards allowed, and they're in the SB. No credit for Brady, then?

[BradyOwnsManning]

There's no comparing Brady and Manning anymore. Sorry, Colts fans. The Brady / Manning debate has been settled, the Brady / Montana debate has begun. You guys are living in 2004. It's now 2012, and after shattering just about every offensive record and QB record in professional football, Brady is now on his way to his 5th Superbowl, after winning 3 and reaching another 18-0, leading the greatest offense in the history of football.

I know you love your guy and you hate that he isn't the best but he isn't. Manning is a great quarterback but Brady is the GOAT.

Brady won MUCH more with MUCH less, not gaining top tier receivers until the 2007 season with which he shattered every concept of what was possible for an offense.

Manning supporters have no argument anymore. It doesn't even make sense to bring it up.

Just say Manning is one of the best of all time and be happy with that. Bringing up the Manning v Brady debate is just setting yourselves up for failure.

[BradyOwnsManning]

And this all while Manning had a three season head start on him.

[ACollie17]

So KP, what about the earlier posts that proved that the Colts had defenses that were in the top 10 for scoring four separate times?

The Patriots have a defense right now that was ranked 14th in scoring, 31st in yards allowed, and they're in the SB. No credit for Brady, then?

I stand corrected. But, three of those four times were '07-'09. Those years were after Edge left. When Edge left, the run game was generally on the decline. As I said, all cylanders were never firing at the same time. The year we won the SB, Addai ran for 100+ yards, but the defense was 23rd in scoring and 21st in yards. All credit goes to the offense IMO. Yes, the defense stepped up in the playoffs but numbers never lie. Think about the last 4 SB winners. 2007 Giants, balanced all around. 2008 Steelers, balanced all around with a stellar defense. 2009 Saints, balanced all around. 2010 Packers, very balanced all around. The Colts were never balanced all around at one time. Yes, we have had very, very good players around Peyton, but the defense was sparatically good over the decade, the run game was good in the early 2000s, but has been declining. The pass offense was always steady because of 18.

And yes, I do give Tom Brady full credit for this season. As much as I hate him, I give him full credit for leading the Pats this season because of the fact that the Pats were 20th in rush yards and the terrible defense as you stated above (14 and 31 in scoring/yards). Just like how the Colts have never been great in all aspects of the ball, which is why I give Peyton Manning most of the credit for covering up these holes.

[dynasty13]

There's no comparing Brady and Manning anymore. Sorry, Colts fans. The Brady / Manning debate has been settled, the Brady / Montana debate has begun. You guys are living in 2004. It's now 2012, and after shattering just about every offensive record and QB record in professional football, Brady is now on his way to his 5th Superbowl, after winning 3 and reaching another 18-0, leading the greatest offense in the history of football.

I know you love your guy and you hate that he isn't the best but he isn't. Manning is a great quarterback but Brady is the GOAT.

Brady won MUCH more with MUCH less, not gaining top tier receivers until the 2007 season with which he shattered every concept of what was possible for an offense.

Manning supporters have no argument anymore. It doesn't even make sense to bring it up.

Just say Manning is one of the best of all time and be happy with that. Bringing up the Manning v Brady debate is just setting yourselves up for failure.

uh oh....here we go...

[Coltssouth]

uh oh....here we go...

Yeah. I seriously hope he is here to talk football and not to troll.

We do enjoy opinions from fans of other teams, but not at the expense of running down ours.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

I stand corrected. But, three of those four times were '07-'09. Those years were after Edge left. When Edge left, the run game was generally on the decline.

Not to mention that the O line has sucked it up in the seasons since '06 and giving Manning little time to throw downfield and not creating gaps for the RBs to run through.

[Cain Marko]

WITH SO LITTLE?!?!

Two HOF WRs in Harrison and Wayne.

Two outstanding TEs in Clark and Pollard.

Great RBs in James, Addai, and one HOFer in Faulk.

An outstanding O-line up until a few years ago.

Terrific complementary WRs such as Stockley, Collie, among others.

Please. For a decade Peyton was given an outstanding offense to work with. The Colts' defense was built to hold the leads that Peyton helped build.

These are some of the same pieces that were there this year and we saw how well the Colts did. It's been Manning the whole time. Plus, I love seeing Pats fans claim Manning had SO much talent around him when these are the very same players the Pats, themselves, passed on.

1996 Pats- T. Glenn Colts-M.Harrison

2001 Pats- R.Seymore Colts- R.Wayne

2002 Colts- D.Freeney Pats- D.Graham

2003 Pats- T.Warren Colts-D.Clark

2004 Pats- B.Watson,Wilfork Colts- B.Sanders

2005 Colts- M.Jackson Pats-Mankins

2006 Pats- ^fool^ey Colts-Addai

2007 Pats Merriweather Colts-Gonzalez

2008 Pats Mayo,spygate Colts-none- Ugoh

2009 Pats-none Colts-D.Brown

2010 Pats McCourty Colts-Hughes

[GoColts8818]

*cough*

Except that his teammates are the ones who:

1. Give him time to throw (okay, perhaps not as much as you'd like, but still).

2. Take the handoff from him.

3. Catch the ball.

4. Run the correct routes.

Among others.

Please, the MVP is still a team award. Heck, Peyton has said so as well. No QB can do what he does without someone to block, catch the ball, etc.

It's a lot less of a team award than Super Bowl Rings are.

I gave credit to Brady for being good time for Pats to give Manning credit for being good as well.

[GoColts8818]

There's no comparing Brady and Manning anymore. Sorry, Colts fans. The Brady / Manning debate has been settled, the Brady / Montana debate has begun. You guys are living in 2004. It's now 2012, and after shattering just about every offensive record and QB record in professional football, Brady is now on his way to his 5th Superbowl, after winning 3 and reaching another 18-0, leading the greatest offense in the history of football.

I know you love your guy and you hate that he isn't the best but he isn't. Manning is a great quarterback but Brady is the GOAT.

Brady won MUCH more with MUCH less, not gaining top tier receivers until the 2007 season with which he shattered every concept of what was possible for an offense.

Manning supporters have no argument anymore. It doesn't even make sense to bring it up.

Just say Manning is one of the best of all time and be happy with that. Bringing up the Manning v Brady debate is just setting yourselves up for failure.

Funny you sound like Colts fans two years ago only they were saying this about Manning proving once again this just comes down to the flavor of the season and it comes down to which one you like more.

[GoColts8818]

Quick question:

Off the top of your head, what NFL records does Peyton have? I know you'll look them up, but I can't think of ONE important NFL record that Peyton has.

The two most "important" are yards in a season and TDs in a season. Peyton has neither. Brady has one of them, and would have had them both if Brees hadn't had such a year.

Brady does the most important thing a QB does: lead his team to wins. He has a much higher winning percentage than Peyton. He blows Peyton out of the water in playoff records. Yes, I know, wins are a team thing, but the QB is easily the most important position, otherwise people wouldn't argue so much about it all the time. And teams wouldn't pay their QBs so much if they weren't so important.

Wait didn't you just say in the post above this that his teamates have to catch the pass so if that's the case the single season TD record is a team acomplishment as well.

You are trying to twist arguements so what Manning did wasn't so great and that's what drives Colts fans crazy. By the same token Pats fans hate it just as much when Colts fans try to twist what Brady did and say oh he's not so great. I am at least willing to admit both are very good QBs and it comes down to personal choice. Are you willing to at least do the same? Because there is no set arguement here to judge this. It's personal choice and there is never going to be an end to this debate. Heck to some people Manning and Brady will be never be as good as Montana or Elway or whoever they like.

Pats fans strongest arguemnt for Brady is that he did it in the post season. Great he did he gets credit for that but that doesn't mean the rest of the season doesn't count.

Also there have been several times that Manning has played well in the playoffs and the Colts still lost not because of him. Both Chargers games and the most recent Jets game and even the Miami game early in his career come to mind.

Someone put this up on twitter the other day it's just worth looking at when people talk about how great Brady is in the playoffs.

Pats record in playoff games where Brady's QB rating was 75 or less

5-2

Colts record in playoff games where Manning's QB rating was 75 or less

2-4.

That tells me that the Pats do't need Brady to be great for the Pats to win in the playoffs and often times when the Brady doesn't play well the Pats still win in the post season. That's why you have be careful when looking at things like post season wins and Super Bowl wins. The team can still win those games when the QB doesn't play great. The Colts need Peyton Manning to play well to have a chance to win playoff games. That tells me what I've been saying for a while the Pats have had better teams than the Colts do.

Pats fans used to love to tell us when Brady went down for the season they went from a 16-0 team to an 11-5 team so he was worth five wins to their team. Well Manning went down and the Colts went from 10-6 to 2-14. By that logic Manning is worth eight wins to their team. So if you go by that then well Manning supports have a big feather in their cap.

You can twist numbers and acomplishments however you would like to support either QB. That's why I say both are great and it comes down to which ever one you like and while Super Bowls are apart of a legacy they are not this trump card Pats fans think they are.

[BradyOwnsManning]

Uh, no, it doesn't come down to which one you like more.

NFL records

Wins

• Fewest starts to achieve 100 regular-season wins as a starter (131 starts)
  
• Most wins with one head coach (124, Bill Belichick).^[77]
  
• Most consecutive wins, postseason: 10 (2001, 2003, 2004, 2005)
  
• Most consecutive wins, regular season and postseason: 21 (2003–2004)
  
• Most consecutive wins in regular-season home games: 31 (2006–2011)
  
• Most seasons finishing 8–0 at home: 5 (2003, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2010)
  
• Only quarterback to start and win 3 Super Bowls before his 28th birthday
  

Touchdowns

• Most passing touchdowns, regular season: 50 (2007)
  
• Most passing touchdowns, regular season and postseason combined: 56 (2007)
  
• Most touchdown passes, month: 20 (October 2007)
  
• Most passing touchdowns, quarter: 5 (second quarter vs. Tennessee, October 18, 2009)
  
• Largest touchdown to interception differential: +42 (2007)
  
• Highest touchdown to interception ratio, season: 9.0 to 1 (36 TD/4 INT, 2010)
  
• Highest touchdown pass–interception ratio, career: 2.52-1 (260 TD/103 INT)
  
• Most games with 3+ touchdown passes, regular season: 12 (2007)
  
• Most consecutive games with 5+ touchdown passes: 2 (2007) (tied with Daunte Culpepper)
  
• Most consecutive games with 3+ touchdown passes: 10 (2007)
  
• Most consecutive games with 2+ touchdown passes: 13 (tied with Peyton Manning)
  
• Most consecutive games with 2+ touchdown passes and no interceptions: 9 (2010, October 24 – 2011, September 12)
  
• Most games with 1 touchdown pass and no interceptions, season: 14 (2010)
  
• Most games with 2 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 11 (2010)
  
• Most games with 3 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 8 (2007)
  
• Most games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 5 (2007)
  
• Most games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 12 – tied with Brett Favre
  
• Most games with 5 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 3 (2007)
  
• Most games with 5 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 4 – tied with Peyton Manning
  
• Most games with 6 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career 2 – tied with Peyton Manning
  

Completions

• Highest single-game completion percentage, postseason: 92.9% (vs. Jacksonville, January 12, 2008)^[78]
  
• Most completions in a Super Bowl: 32 - tied with Drew Brees (XXXVIII)
  
• Most career Super Bowl completions: 100 (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLII)
  
• Largest completion–interception ratio, season: 81.0-1 (324-4) (minimum 150 completions), 2010
  
• Most games with 20 completions and no interceptions, season: 10 (2007)
  
• Most games with 30 completions and no interceptions, career: 9 – tied with Drew Brees
  
• Most games with 30 completions and no interceptions, season: 5 (2007)
  
• Most games with 50 pass attempts and no interceptions, career: 3
  

Yards

• Largest passing yards–interception ratio, career: 337.3-1 (34,744-103) (minimum 20,000 passing yards)
  
• Largest passing yards–interception ratio, season: 975.0-1 (3,900-4) (minimum 2,000 passing yards), 2010
  
• Most games with 300 yards passing and no interceptions, season: 8 (2007)
  

Interception-free streaks and interception percentage

• Most consecutive pass attempts to start a career without an interception: 162 (2000–2001)
  
• Most consecutive pass attempts without an interception, regular season: 358 (2010, October 24 – 2011, September 12)
  
• Third-lowest interception percentage (interceptions per attempt), career: 2.19% (Aaron Rodgers ranks first @ 1.99%; Neil O'Donnell is second @ 2.11%)
  

Personal bests

Excluding the list of NFL records above:

• Highest single-game quarterback rating: 158.3 (at Miami, October 21, 2007 and at Detroit, November 25, 2010) Perfect Rating
  
• Highest single-season quarterback rating: 117.2 (2007) 3rd highest all-time
  
• Most passing touchdowns, game: 6 (at Miami, October 21, 2007 and vs. Tennessee, October 18, 2009)
  
• Most passing yards, game: 517 (at Miami, September 12, 2011)
  
• Most passing yards, season: 5,235 (2011) 2nd highest all-time
  
• Lowest interception total, season (minimum 2 starts): 4 (2010)
  
• Most consecutive games with 1+ touchdown passes: 29 (2010-present) 5th all-time
  
• Most consecutive uninterrupted games with 1+ touchdown passes: 29 (2010-present) 2nd all-time
  
• Most consecutive playoff games with 1+ touchdown passes: 17 (2002-present) 2nd all-time
  

21-game win streak statistics (including post-season)

• 690 passes attempted
  
• 412 passes completed
  
• 4,953 passing yards
  
• 34 passing touchdowns
  
• 13 passes intercepted
  
• 20.29 passing attempts per touchdown
  
• 53.07 passing attempts per interception
  
• 59.71 completion rate
  
• 90.3 passer rating
  

Career

• 124–35 (.780) (regular season), 138–40 (.775) (career) as a starter
  
• 8–1 (career) in overtime games
  
• 37–7 (career) vs. NFC teams
  
• 33 game-winning drives after a Patriots' fourth-quarter tie or deficit^[79]
  

Post-season records and statistics

• NFL record for most consecutive wins in post season: 10 (broke record of Green Bay's Bart Starr).
  
• Most consecutive post season wins (college and professional combined): 12
  
• 3 Super Bowl victories
  
• 2 Super Bowl MVP awards
  
• Most completions in a Super Bowl (32 in Super Bowl XXXVIII)
  
• Most career Super Bowl completions (100 in four games)
  
• Highest completion percentage in a single game, minimum 20 attempts (26 of 28, 92.9%, against Jacksonville in 2007 AFC Divisional round)^[80]
  
• Most touchdowns passes in a playoff game(tied with Steve Young & Daryle Lamonica): 6, January 14, 2012
  
• Most touchdowns passes in a playoff game half: 5, January 14, 2012
  

I'm not here to troll. I actually came to ask what your opinions were on Manning leaving. I'm wondering if Indianapolis will ever recover if the organization discards Manning like yesterday's garbage knowing that you're all so loyal to him. That's why I came. Then I saw this and just couldn't let it slide.

Manning is a great quarterback. Brady has proven himself better. Sorry it's just the clear objective truth