Broncos about to get Kaepernick?

[oldunclemark]

 More than one Denver media spot says he's met with Elway....who prefers him  over other options

...To sign him they need to open up money, probably by releasing or trading Ryan Clady...but they have no spot for him now anyway

 

CK is a mobile QB....still young.....playoff experience..

But his final games for SF were somewhat crusty......hr couldn't even hit the ground with some of his passes..

 

Can they fix him?  Does he fit there?

[jvan1973]

I would imagine a pay cut would be in order before they make any trade

[loudnproudcolt]

This article is basically a click bait article as it rehashes most of the problems. First, this is not the first time Kaepernick has met with Elway, it is the second, although I doubt the first one was at his home. Why entertain Kaepernick, well the Broncos are up against the salary cap, and Elway has said he won't pay more than 7M a year, plus I am sure incentives, to Kaep. Why if you are Kaep and guaranteed 12M this year plus incentives, it is locked in now April 1st has come and gone, would you accept less? Last, SF seems with their QB situation like they are happy to keep him, unless Denver comes up with a second. With all Kaep's uncertainty, health and how he performed last year, would you give up a second. Denver says they are willing to give a fourth. I see this as a merry go round. I think what could possibly happen is Denver on draft day makes a deal, but Kaep still would have to accept less money, which I would not willingly do. He may want to get traded, but traded and accepting 5 million less per year are a lot to ask. S.F. is a beautiful town if you have 5M extra in your pocket!
 

[bayone]

 

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

 More than one Denver media spot says he's met with Elway....who prefers him  over other options

...To sign him they need to open up money, probably by releasing or trading Ryan Clady...but they have no spot for him now anyway

 

CK is a mobile QB....still young.....playoff experience..

But his final games for SF were somewhat crusty......hr couldn't even hit the ground with some of his passes..

 

Can they fix him?  Does he fit there?

 

20 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I would imagine a pay cut would be in order before they make any trade

 

19 minutes ago, loudnproudcolt said:

This article is basically a click bait article as it rehashes most of the problems. First, this is not the first time Kaepernick has met with Elway, it is the second, although I doubt the first one was at his home. Why entertain Kaepernick, well the Broncos are up against the salary cap, and Elway has said he won't pay more than 7M a year, plus I am sure incentives, to Kaep. Why if you are Kaep and guaranteed 12M this year plus incentives, it is locked in now April 1st has come and gone, would you accept less? Last, SF seems with their QB situation like they are happy to keep him, unless Denver comes up with a second. With all Kaep's uncertainty, health and how he performed last year, would you give up a second. Denver says they are willing to give a fourth. I see this as a merry go round. I think what could possibly happen is Denver on draft day makes a deal, but Kaep still would have to accept less money, which I would not willingly do. He may want to get traded, but traded and accepting 5 million less per year are a lot to ask. S.F. is a beautiful town if you have 5M extra in your pocket!
 

 

they met Thursday , just before his money became guaranteed

 

Kaepernick ... met with Broncos general manager John Elway at Elway's house in the Denver area on Thursday, a source said. Kaepernick and Elway have met at least twice since March 15. Kaepernick has spent his offseason rehabbing three injuries in Vail, Colo., which is about 100 miles from Denver.

Their meeting on Thursday occurred on the same day Kaepernick's $11.9 million base salary became guaranteed

 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25539605/report-colin-kaepernick-met-with-broncos-gm-john-elway

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, loudnproudcolt said:

This article is basically a click bait article as it rehashes most of the problems. First, this is not the first time Kaepernick has met with Elway, it is the second, although I doubt the first one was at his home. Why entertain Kaepernick, well the Broncos are up against the salary cap, and Elway has said he won't pay more than 7M a year, plus I am sure incentives, to Kaep. Why if you are Kaep and guaranteed 12M this year plus incentives, it is locked in now April 1st has come and gone, would you accept less? Last, SF seems with their QB situation like they are happy to keep him, unless Denver comes up with a second. With all Kaep's uncertainty, health and how he performed last year, would you give up a second. Denver says they are willing to give a fourth. I see this as a merry go round. I think what could possibly happen is Denver on draft day makes a deal, but Kaep still would have to accept less money, which I would not willingly do. He may want to get traded, but traded and accepting 5 million less per year are a lot to ask. S.F. is a beautiful town if you have 5M extra in your pocket!
 

LPC,

But do you want to go back to the Super Bowl?

That will be tough in SF..

Like you say, the Thursday meet at Elway's home is new...I'm guessing that doesnt happen if Elway doesnt want him. You don't need someone in your home to talk contract.

It comes down to....do you want to play for the Broncos and do you want to go back to the Super Bowl.

How bad do you want it.

 

They've got to structure something with short cash this year bonus money...but, again, they must be close if Elway is letting CK stay over at the 'horse mansion'

Something like...Kap gets $3 mil and $3 mil more for every playoff game he starts and the Broncos win.

There's the $12 mil. Bonus money doesn't count against the cap right?.

 

What it comes down to.....Is Colin Kaepernick better than Mark Sanchez....

I would say that he is

[B~Town]

Denver and 9ers have came to terms on trade per reports for a 5th round .

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

LPC,

But do you want to go back to the Super Bowl?

That will be tough in SF..

Like you say, the Thursday meet at Elway's home is new...I'm guessing that doesnt happen if Elway doesnt want him. You don't need someone in your home to talk contract.

It comes down to....do you want to play for the Broncos and do you want to go back to the Super Bowl.

How bad do you want it.

 

They've got to structure something with short cash this year bonus money...but, again, they must be close if Elway is letting CK stay over at the 'horse mansion'

Something like...Kap gets $3 mil and $3 mil more for every playoff game he starts and the Broncos win.

There's the $12 mil. Bonus money doesn't count against the cap right?.

 

What it comes down to.....Is Colin Kaepernick better than Mark Sanchez....

I would say that he 

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

LPC,

But do you want to go back to the Super Bowl?

That will be tough in SF..

Like you say, the Thursday meet at Elway's home is new...I'm guessing that doesnt happen if Elway doesnt want him. You don't need someone in your home to talk contract.

It comes down to....do you want to play for the Broncos and do you want to go back to the Super Bowl.

How bad do you want it.

 

They've got to structure something with short cash this year bonus money...but, again, they must be close if Elway is letting CK stay over at the 'horse mansion'

Something like...Kap gets $3 mil and $3 mil more for every playoff game he starts and the Broncos win.

There's the $12 mil. Bonus money doesn't count against the cap right?.

 

What it comes down to.....Is Colin Kaepernick better than Mark Sanchez....

I would say that he is

Kaepernick wasn't any better than Sanchez last year.   He certainly isn't worth the 12 million plus the draft picks better

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, B~Town said:

Denver and 9ers have came to terms on trade per reports for a 5th round .

Link?

[bayone]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Link?

 

The agreement on trade compensation between Denver and San Francisco will not be an issue in any potential trade for Kaepernick, sources said. The compensation is expected to be some type of mid-round pick.

The real question is whether the Broncos and Kaepernick can work out a restructured deal; the Broncos and 49ers already have the parameters of theirs in place.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25539849/report-broncos-49ers-trade-in-place-if-kaepernick-reworks-contract

[bayone]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Link?

 

Report: Broncos-49ers trade  in place  if Kaepernick reworks contract

The agreement on trade compensation between Denver and San Francisco will not be an issue in any potential trade for Kaepernick, sources said. The compensation is expected to be some type of mid-round pick.

The real question is whether the Broncos and Kaepernick can work out a restructured deal; the Broncos and 49ers already have the parameters of theirs in place.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25539849/report-broncos-49ers-trade-in-place-if-kaepernick-reworks-contract

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 2nd article

sources said, but before any deal can be completed, the quarterback and the Broncos still have to agree on a restructured contract, and the two sides have not been close

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/04/02/nfl-trade-broncos-49ers-have-colin-kaepernick-trade-in-place/21337300/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl28%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D-526566845_htmlws-main-bb 

[oldunclemark]

19 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Kaepernick wasn't any better than Sanchez last year.   He certainly isn't worth the 12 million plus the draft picks better

You wouldn't have saud that when SF was in the Super Bowl, though.

You can make that argument about last year....but when both were at their NFL best, KP was better.

Forget the pick and the non-cap money...Denver has something like 10 picks,,,,a 5th rounder isn't much 

I'm guessing Kap wont be making $12 mil next year unless its mostly bonus money...

 

..again.....bonus money does not count against the cap, right?

So, if you sign for $3 mil with 9 mil available in bonuses...that's only $3 mil against the cap, right?

 

Denver lost 2 QBs...needed 2 QBs and I guess they go two QBs

 

 

[jvan1973]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

You wouldn't have saud that when SF was in the Super Bowl, though.

You can make that argument about last year....but when both were at their NFL best, KP was better.

Forget the pick and the non-cap money...Denver has something like 10 picks,,,,a 5th rounder isn't much 

I'm guessing Kap wont be making $12 mil next year unless its mostly bonus money...

 

..again.....bonus money does not count against the cap, right?

So, if you sign for $3 mil with 9 mil available in bonuses...that's only $3 mil against the cap, right?

 

Denver lost 2 QBs...needed 2 QBs and I guess they go two QBs

 

 

Yes,  bonus money counts against the cap,  and the 9ers are going to want more than a 5th

[oldunclemark]

Then what was the point of Denver taking $4 mil of Peyton's money last year but offering it back with bonuses...

A gimmick to get around the cap...?

Does bonus money count on the next season.?

 

 

 

 

[loudnproudcolt]

On 4/2/2016 at 6:30 PM, oldunclemark said:

LPC,

But do you want to go back to the Super Bowl?

That will be tough in SF..

Like you say, the Thursday meet at Elway's home is new...I'm guessing that doesnt happen if Elway doesnt want him. You don't need someone in your home to talk contract.

It comes down to....do you want to play for the Broncos and do you want to go back to the Super Bowl.

How bad do you want it.

 

They've got to structure something with short cash this year bonus money...but, again, they must be close if Elway is letting CK stay over at the 'horse mansion'

Something like...Kap gets $3 mil and $3 mil more for every playoff game he starts and the Broncos win.

There's the $12 mil. Bonus money doesn't count against the cap right?.

 

What it comes down to.....Is Colin Kaepernick better than Mark Sanchez....

I would say that he is

I agree Denver is a much better place for Kaepernick to play. I think the fans of SF have lost faith in him, and I believe the talk around the NFL among players about Chip Kelly is not too positive. Denver would be a great landing spot, and I think Denver offers him a little more than 7M, but will give incentives also. Denver still has a very good defense, plus I think the offense suits him more due to how Kubiak likes to rollout his QB, which for Kaepernick would be good. He is not a pocket passer. He has no touch, he throws rockets. The question is two fold for denver, can you improve his accuracy, and what is the true story on his health. I had a rod in my leg, and it is no small health concern. I had no idea Kaep has a rod in one of his legs. If I am Kaep, if we can find middle ground I would go, but it is still 5M/yr. right now. A lot of players talk of going to a team who can win for less, but generally only do this at the end of their career. Also, I don't know if Kaep is better than Sanchez right now? I do believe working with Elway would help him, and it must be nice to know Elway wants him to be his QB.

 

So in the end, I agree with you about the destination, much better place to play. It seems though right now, SF really wants at least a second or early third, and SF wants a 4th. Give them a 4th this year and a conditional pick next year, say another 4th depending on how much he plays.

 

It is amazing to me in the first year we had Luck, and he took a team with no depth and no star power except a few players, 35M in dead cap money, and took them to 11-5. I still believe it was one of the most incredible QB seasons, especially for a rookie replacing Peyton Manning. In the same year though, RGIII and Kaep got all the pub. and everyone said they were the future. Look how far both have fallen. Amazing!

[bayone]

12 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Then what was the point of Denver taking $4 mil of Peyton's money last year but offering it back with bonuses...

A gimmick to get around the cap...?

 

On 4/3/2016 at 2:36 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Link?

 

On 4/3/2016 at 10:26 PM, jvan1973 said:

Kaepernick wasn't any better than Sanchez last year.   He certainly isn't worth the 12 million plus the draft picks better

Report: Kaepernick deal held up by $4.9 million gap

 A source told ESPN that the two sides must still agree on who will pay the $11.9 million in 2016 salary that became guaranteed on Friday.

 

The Broncos have agreed to pay $7 million of Kaepernick's salary, and are pushing for the 49ers to pay for the entire 2016 figure, according to a source.

 

( That is Btoncos want 49er's to pay 4.9 million of kaps contract which with Broncos 7 million offer would = the 11.9 million  current contract  in full )

 

The 49ers are not willing to do that at this time and Kaepernick has not been open to taking a paycut to wipe out the balance.

 

Rapoport reports the trade compensation end of the deal is far less complicated.

 

ESPN reported, via a high-level source, "it would take two seconds" for the teams to finalize the proposed deal with a mid-round draft pick believed to be going back to San Francisco

.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000650108/article/report-kaepernick-deal-held-up-by-49-million-gap
 

Elway playinmg poker ,  actually asking we want the player, and yes we agree on the draft pick compensation for the trade, but since kap wont take a decrease 

u guys pay the difference between what we are willing to pay & what u inked him for

 

Who Blinks , Elway, Kap , or 49ers , or all 3 to some extent

[chad72]

To me, it is a no brainer. With the increasing cap, Kaep's contract is back loaded and can be re-worked if necessary.

 

For now, cutting Ryan Clady frees up the money. I did not see them doing so, they should have done so.

 

Elway is trying to win on all fronts, you have to lose some while winning some, that is how it works in the NFL.

[SilentHill]

eh, i find this all rather silly. I'd rather have Sanchez than Kaepernick. 

 

If you end up with the Kaepernick from last year it's simply not worth it. If they wanted a bad running QB they should have just signed Bob.

[BullsColtsFan1]

Doesn't sound like it's going to happen.  I just read per NFL.com that Kaepernick does not intend on taking a pay cut.

[CF4L]

I don't blame Kaep for not wanting to take a paycut either. I know some say its selfish if he really wants to play. But its a contract and one they agreed to I don't see any issue with a player playing hardball here especially since their careers are so short.

[oldunclemark]

 

 

   

1 hour ago, CF4L said:

I don't blame Kaep for not wanting to take a paycut either. I know some say its selfish if he really wants to play. But its a contract and one they agreed to I don't see any issue with a player playing hardball here especially since their careers are so short.

Depends on what that money means to him..and that's something that's hard to rate..

I'd rather play for Denver than SF.....because of the quality of the teams...

 

...but I don't think Kap made anything when he was first drafted and he may just want every bit of that $11 mil and he' not willing to 'bet on himself' and play for the next big bank deal

[crazycolt1]

42 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

 

 

   

Depends on what that money means to him..and that's something that's hard to rate..

I'd rather play for Denver than SF.....because of the quality of the teams...

 

...but I don't think Kap made anything when he was first drafted and he may just want every bit of that $11 mil and he' not willing to 'bet on himself' and play for the next big bank deal

According to MSN Kap will not take a pay cut. If I were the 49ers I wouldn't pay any money to Kap if he is traded to the Broncos. If the Broncos want him, let them pay for him. IMO Elway can blow smoke up his behind. If I were Kap I would take the attitude that if you don't want to pay my contract then go away.

[Qwiz]

I don't think it's gonna happen. Elway might as well sign Fitzpatrick and call it a day. 

[oldunclemark]

21 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

According to MSN Kap will not take a pay cut. If I were the 49ers I wouldn't pay any money to Kap if he is traded to the Broncos. If the Broncos want him, let them pay for him. IMO Elway can blow smoke up his behind. If I were Kap I would take the attitude that if you don't want to pay my contract then go away.

I cant see any reason for the 49ers to pay Kap to play for Denver...that's a crazy request..

But this is the way Denver has worked under Elway...and they've done quite well

 

..I dont think this is over yet....SF and Denver had a deal....if Kap agreed to the cut.

That tells me the 49ers don't want him that badly....

....the solution might be to get someone else to take a pay cut.

[B~Town]

I think SF will fold first they want Kaps contract off there books to risky to keep a player with his contract that doesn't want to be there . With the deal in place for a 5th round I see either SF giving in and paying a portion of Kap contract next year with the current deal or working for a better pick if they pay part of Kaps deal .

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 4/3/2016 at 5:43 PM, oldunclemark said:

You wouldn't have saud that when SF was in the Super Bowl, though.

You can make that argument about last year....but when both were at their NFL best, KP was better.

Forget the pick and the non-cap money...Denver has something like 10 picks,,,,a 5th rounder isn't much 

I'm guessing Kap wont be making $12 mil next year unless its mostly bonus money...

 

..again.....bonus money does not count against the cap, right?

So, if you sign for $3 mil with 9 mil available in bonuses...that's only $3 mil against the cap, right?

 

Denver lost 2 QBs...needed 2 QBs and I guess they go two QBs

 

 

 

Roster Bonuses count fully in the year in which they are paid. Signing Bonuses and Option Bonuses are prorated over the length of the player’s contract (or the remaining years of the players contract, in the case of an Option Bonus), up to a CBA-mandated maximum of 5 years.

[Nesjan3]

yep Kap is  trying to get his money, wont take the paycut, I think they suck up 4.5 mil the Broncos wont pay just to make the trade. get him off the team and get what would be there 13th draft pick, with that many picks they are primed to make a trade up to get whatever QB they wanted to draft, especially with the Browns who just happened to pick up RG3

[2006Coltsbestever]

They wont Repeat without Peyton so they can get whoever they want.  

[bayone]

Chip Kelly doesn't really want Colin Kaepernick in San Francisco

Excerpt

Just when you thought the Colin Kaepernick situation couldn't get any weirder, it went and got weirder.

If the 49ers don't trade Kaepernick to the Broncos, the quarterback could end up playing for a coach who doesn't want him on the team. According to Dianna Russini of ESPN.com, new 49ers coach Chip Kelly doesn't even really want Kaepernick in San Francisco.

As crazy as that might sound, it's not impossible to believe. For one, if Kelly absolutely wanted Kaepernick to be his starting quarterback in 2016, there's no way the 49ers would've given Kaepernick permission to talk with potential trade partners, and there's no way he'd be hanging out at John Elway's house.

For Kelly, the advantage of getting rid of Kaepernick is simple: He can start better planning for the NFL Draft.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25542172/report-chip-kelly-doesnt-really-want-colin-kaepernick-in-san-francisco

 

MEANWHILE

Kaepernick was at the 49ers' facility on Monday because a) he's still a member of the team, and b) he earns a $400,000 workout bonus for perfect attendance.

 

 "Kaepernick reported [to the 49ers] to start earning time toward accruing his workout bonus and other than that, really nothing has changed. He doesn't want to be there, they know he's not their guy, he couldn't throw a pass at an OTA if he wanted to (and he doesn't), and the Broncos and 49ers remain in touch."

 

( I believe he's still rehabbing from surgery thats why he cant throw a pass yet )

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25541760/report-colin-kaepernick-wont-take-pay-cut-no-trade-with-broncos

[oldunclemark]

20 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Roster Bonuses count fully in the year in which they are paid. Signing Bonuses and Option Bonuses are prorated over the length of the player’s contract (or the remaining years of the players contract, in the case of an Option Bonus), up to a CBA-mandated maximum of 5 years.

CBF...

But what Peyton Manning had last year was not a roster bonus or an option bonus, was it?

 

I ask again because we know that the Broncos asked Peyton to take a pay cut last year and the management said he could get it back if they won he Super Bowl, which they did?.

I believe they signed other players with the $4 mil (Evan Mathis was one)

What was the point of that if that if bonus money counts against the year I which the pay cut was agreed on. ?

 

I wonder if Denver can say that Kap can make back a pay cut if they win playoff games?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

13 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

CBF...

But what Peyton Manning had last year was not a roster bonus or an option bonus, was it?

 

I ask again because we know that the Broncos asked Peyton to take a pay cut last year and the management said he could get it back if they won he Super Bowl, which they did?.

I believe they signed other players with the $4 mil (Evan Mathis was one)

What was the point of that if that if bonus money counts against the year I which the pay cut was agreed on. ?

 

I wonder if Denver can say that Kap can make back a pay cut if they win playoff games?

 

 

What Peyton had were cash incentives in his contract.  Those are determined by the rules as LTBE (likely to be earned) or NLTBE (not likely to be earned).   Generally, the LTBE incentives are treated like signing bonuses. They hit the cap that year.  The NLTBE incentives do not count against the cap. This is determined by performance from the previous year.  Since Peyton had a $2 million for winning AFC championship, and another $2 million for Winning the Super Bowl, both were considered NLTBE.  He didn't win AFC championship the year before (but the year before that he did, but doesn't count) and he didn't win the Super Bowl. Thus it didn't count against the Broncos cap that year being NLTBE.

 

Now here are two interesting scenarios.  The one that happened is Peyton collected on his NLTBE incentives... $4 million extra dollars.  Yay for Peyton!  And the Broncos didn't pay a cent on the cap doing so.  Woot woot!  Right?  { Lee Corso voice on} Not so fast!   That $4 million will now count against the Broncos cap next year.  And Peyton retired!  So Peyton taking a pay cut to save cap, didn't work at all in the end.  Peyton earned his full pay back, and the Broncos will have to pay the salary cap piper in 2016. So they only delayed the cap hit a year, and Peyton never suffered a paycut in the end. But Denver did get their Super Bowl trophy.

 

The other interesting item is Peyton did win the AFC championship couple years ago.  If his incentive were invoked the following year, (which it was not, it was done 2 years past) then his AFC champ incentive would have been considered LTBE and count against the salary cap that year (even if the goal wasn't hit! But they get a credit back next year.), but the Super Bowl win would still be NLTBE since they were drubbed by the Seahawks. That 2 million would go against the team cap the following season if Peyton/Broncos also win the SB.

 

So, like all of the other salary cap tricks out there, there's ways to work the system to free up space, or kick the can down the road, but in the end the Salary Cap Czar will collect full monies.  Pay him now, or pay him later.  He will get paid.

 

Now what kind of incentives do you offer Kaep?  His prior season was so poor, most any incentive will be NLTBE, so good for the cap.  How about 7 million base, 1 million for starting 12 games or more, 1.5 million for winning division,  another 2 million for winning a playoff game and this almost covers his guaranteed salary in SF. Now offer another 3 million for AFC Championship win. This now covers Kaeps full 2016 salary plus bonus payments  on his SF contract for 2016 (but not his cap hit).   Now offer him an additional 3 million up to win the Super Bowl.  Then he makes even more as a Bronco than a 49'er, and he's a Super Bowl winning QB.  And Elway can tell him they have the D that allows an easier to run offense and still win. 

 

And, it is still less than Osweiler got from the Texans, where there is no guarantee to see the Super Bowl!!  Would you mind having to pay Kaeprnick $17.5 million total if he rode the Bronco D to another Super Bowl victory for Denver?  If Kaep is like Flacco, he bets on himself and takes the deal.  Then after cashing in on that incentive deal, he  can get another mega deal.  Or, he can wither under the steely stare of Chip Kelly, collect his 14.3 million in 2016 while they find a way to IR him again  to prevent catastrophic injury (I think he has a massive guarantee for injury, like from 2015 through 2017 his entire base salary is guaranteed for injury only as is $5.2 million of his 2018 base salary) to keep him from hurting himself...   because that is $21,600,000 dollars guaranteed pay for 2016-2018 while he is injured and can't play.  Kaepernick's situation is quite interesting.

 

[southwest1]

On April 3, 2016 at 9:26 PM, jvan1973 said:

Kaepernick wasn't any better than Sanchez last year.   He certainly isn't worth the 12 million plus the draft picks better

Normally, I agree 98% with your take on things Jvan, but Colin has a good arm, scrabbles well, would run Kubiak's naked bootlegs well, & he did take the 49ers to a SB. 

 

I honestly don't think there is that much to fix with Kaep. I'd come up to $9,000,000 for him. If Colin were smart, he'd take less money to win in Denver with an elite defense. He'd make his money back in Denver anyway. After Chip Kelly destroyed the Eagles roster, he lost all NFL credibility with me. 

[oldunclemark]

11 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

What Peyton had were cash incentives in his contract.  Those are determined by the rules as LTBE (likely to be earned) or NLTBE (not likely to be earned).   Generally, the LTBE incentives are treated like signing bonuses. They hit the cap that year.  The NLTBE incentives do not count against the cap. This is determined by performance from the previous year.  Since Peyton had a $2 million for winning AFC championship, and another $2 million for Winning the Super Bowl, both were considered NLTBE.  He didn't win AFC championship the year before (but the year before that he did, but doesn't count) and he didn't win the Super Bowl. Thus it didn't count against the Broncos cap that year being NLTBE.

 

Now here are two interesting scenarios.  The one that happened is Peyton collected on his NLTBE incentives... $4 million extra dollars.  Yay for Peyton!  And the Broncos didn't pay a cent on the cap doing so.  Woot woot!  Right?  { Lee Corso voice on} Not so fast!   That $4 million will now count against the Broncos cap next year.  And Peyton retired!  So Peyton taking a pay cut to save cap, didn't work at all in the end.  Peyton earned his full pay back, and the Broncos will have to pay the salary cap piper in 2016. So they only delayed the cap hit a year, and Peyton never suffered a paycut in the end. But Denver did get their Super Bowl trophy.

 

The other interesting item is Peyton did win the AFC championship couple years ago.  If his incentive were invoked the following year, (which it was not, it was done 2 years past) then his AFC champ incentive would have been considered LTBE and count against the salary cap that year (even if the goal wasn't hit! But they get a credit back next year. ), but the Super Bowl win would still be NLTBE since they were drubbed by the Seahawks. That 2 million would go against the team cap the following season if Peyton/Broncos also win the SB.

 

So, like all of the other salary cap tricks out there, there's ways to work the system to free up space, or kick the can down the road, but in the end the Salary Cap Czar will collect full monies.  Pay him now, or pay him later.  He will get paid.

 

Now what kind of incentives do you offer Kaep?  His prior season was so poor, most any incentive will be NLTBE, so good for the cap.  How about 7 million base, 1 million for starting 12 games or more, 1.5 million for winning division,  another 2 million for winning a playoff game and this almost covers his guaranteed salary in SF. Now offer another 3 million for AFC Championship win. This now covers Kaeps full 2016 salary plus bonus payments  on his SF contract for 2016 (but not his cap hit).   Now offer him an additional 3 million up to win the Super Bowl.  Then he makes even more as a Bronco than a 49'er, and he's a Super Bowl winning QB.  And Elway can tell him they have the D that allows an easier to run offense and still win. 

 

And, it is still less than Osweiler got from the Texans, where there is no guarantee to see the Super Bowl!!  Would you mind having to pay Kaeprnick $17.5 million total if he rode the Bronco D to another Super Bowl victory for Denver?  If Kaep is like Flacco, he bets on himself and takes the deal.  Then after cashing in on that incentive deal, he  can get another mega deal.  Or, he can wither under the steely stare of Chip Kelly, collect his 14.3 million in 2016 while they find a way to IR him again  to prevent catastrophic injury (I think he has a massive guarantee for injury, like from 2015 through 2017 his entire base salary is guaranteed for injury only as is $5.2 million of his 2018 base salary) to keep him from hurting himself...   because that is $21,600,000 dollars guaranteed pay for 2016-2018 while he is injured and can't play.  Kaepernick's situation is quite interesting.

 

Thank you...CBF....

You hit the answer there//  That was my problem..

I did not understand LTBEs and NLTBEs.......

...If Denver can somehow make the case that a team which went to the AFC final Super Bowl  and won it..can give Kap (or anyone ) anAFC title  and Super Bowl bonus and it is somehow categorize it as  a NLTBE....they can bump that extra 5 mil to 2017.....making it a 2.5 AFC title bonus and a $5 mil Super Bowl bonus.

 

...advancing that forward...who is the judge? Who rules whether

a BONUS is an NLTBE or a LTBE..........?

 

Under your explaination I've got to think this deal gets made. .....They could redo his deal for $7 mil with 5 mil in NLTBE bonuses and bump him another guaranteed $11 mil in 2017 (that would count $16 mil against the cap counting potential bonuses.right?   That way.....Kap isn't gambling too much....if 2017 is assured...and he;s still set for a super bucks deal min 2018 and beyond.

but you are right..Kap would have to bet on himself....to be good enough to get a loaded Bronco team with a new all-pro LT...and 2 Pro Bowl WRs top the Super Bowl.....

 

I hope Kap jumps on this...he would immediately be a big favorite in Denver if he did....

If he stays in SF.....the love wont be flowing

 

...

[bayone]

10 hours ago, southwest1 said:

 

I honestly don't think there is that much to fix with Kaep. I'd come up to $9,000,000 for him. If Colin were smart, he'd take less money to win in Denver with an elite defense. He'd make his money back in Denver anyway. After Chip Kelly destroyed the Eagles roster, he lost all NFL credibility with me. 

 

5 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

 

Under your explaination I've got to think this deal gets made. .....They could redo his deal for $7 mil with 5 mil in NLTBE bonuses and bump him another guaranteed $11 mil in 2017 (that would count $16 mil against the cap counting potential bonuses.right?   That way.....Kap isn't gambling too much....if 2017 is assured...and he;s still set for a super bucks deal min 2018 and beyond.

but you are right..Kap would have to bet on himself....to be good enough to get a loaded Bronco team with a new all-pro LT...and 2 Pro Bowl WRs top the Super Bowl.....

 

I hope Kap jumps on this...he would immediately be a big favorite in Denver if he did....

If he stays in SF.....the love wont be flowing

 

...

 

This story just gets weirder & see 2nd article link that follows on how a former agent says it can get done

 

Excerpt long article

 

The trade saga involving Colin Kaepernick and the Denver Broncos seems to give us a new twist every day, so it shouldn't surprise anyone to learn that we possibly have another one.

According to CSN Bay Area, the 49ers quarterback is actually willing to take a pay cut to help make a trade happen. However, there's still one huge issue: the amount of the pay cut.

Although it was initially believed that the Broncos wanted Kaepernick to take a $4.9 million pay cut, apparently the number is actually bigger than that. According to CSN, the Broncos want Kaepernick to agree to a restructured deal that would pay him $7 million in both 2016 and 2017, which would be a huge loss for Kaepernick.

Kaepernick has a guaranteed salary of $11.9 million in 2016, so if he agreed to the Broncos' new deal, that would mean a $4.9 million loss for the upcoming season, which was previously reported.

In 2017 though, Kaepernick would take a bigger loss in Denver: His base salary is scheduled to be $14.5 million, which means he would be taking a $7.5 million pay cut for 2017 if he were to agree to the Broncos' proposed deal.

If Kaepernick took that offer, that would cost him a total of $12.4 million in base salary over the next two seasons.

Kaepernick also has $2 million in roster bonuses built into his contract for each of the next two seasons, so he could potentially be out a total of $16.4 million if he restructures his contract the way the Broncos are asking.

Kaepernick's willing to take any pay cut, that's a good sign for the Broncos, because it likely means he wants out of San Francisco so badly that he's willing to take less money. He's just not willing to play a drastically lower salary.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25543599/report-kaepernick-willing-to-take-pay-cut-but-theres-still-one-huge-issue

Long detailed article by Joel Corry , Former Sports Agent on how deal can get done

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25543374/agents-take-how-colin-kapernick-could-still-end-up-on-the-broncos

[ColtsBlueFL]

56 minutes ago, bayone said:

 

 

This story just gets weirder & see 2nd article link that follows on how a former agent says it can get done

 

Excerpt long article

 

The trade saga involving Colin Kaepernick and the Denver Broncos seems to give us a new twist every day, so it shouldn't surprise anyone to learn that we possibly have another one.

According to CSN Bay Area, the 49ers quarterback is actually willing to take a pay cut to help make a trade happen. However, there's still one huge issue: the amount of the pay cut.

Although it was initially believed that the Broncos wanted Kaepernick to take a $4.9 million pay cut, apparently the number is actually bigger than that. According to CSN, the Broncos want Kaepernick to agree to a restructured deal that would pay him $7 million in both 2016 and 2017, which would be a huge loss for Kaepernick.

Kaepernick has a guaranteed salary of $11.9 million in 2016, so if he agreed to the Broncos' new deal, that would mean a $4.9 million loss for the upcoming season, which was previously reported.

In 2017 though, Kaepernick would take a bigger loss in Denver: His base salary is scheduled to be $14.5 million, which means he would be taking a $7.5 million pay cut for 2017 if he were to agree to the Broncos' proposed deal.

If Kaepernick took that offer, that would cost him a total of $12.4 million in base salary over the next two seasons.

Kaepernick also has $2 million in roster bonuses built into his contract for each of the next two seasons, so he could potentially be out a total of $16.4 million if he restructures his contract the way the Broncos are asking.

Kaepernick's willing to take any pay cut, that's a good sign for the Broncos, because it likely means he wants out of San Francisco so badly that he's willing to take less money. He's just not willing to play a drastically lower salary.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25543599/report-kaepernick-willing-to-take-pay-cut-but-theres-still-one-huge-issue

Long detailed article by Joel Corry , Former Sports Agent on how deal can get done

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25543374/agents-take-how-colin-kapernick-could-still-end-up-on-the-broncos

 

Yes, very interesting situation.  My fantasy scenario above was for a show me one year deal; which isn't likely on a second level. With the huge mega deal SF had given him with an outrageous Guaranteed for injury clause, it just reeks of challenges whether Kaep goes or stays.  Should be fun to watch.

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Thank you...CBF....

 

...advancing that forward...who is the judge? Who rules whether

a BONUS is an NLTBE or a LTBE..........?

 

 

Like most everything else, it is n the rules and CBA approved.  Setting incentives for Kaep moving over to Denver seems to have challenges based on the LTBE/NLTBE rules below.  Here you go...

 

“LTBE” Incentives – Count against the Cap

    Any and all incentive amounts, including but not limited to performance bonuses, shall be included in Team Salary if they are “likely to be earned” during such League Year based upon the player’s and/or Team’s performance during the prior year.
    Any incentive in year one of a Rookie Contract shall be deemed “likely to be earned.”
    Any incentive within the sole control of the player (e.g., nonguaranteed reporting bonuses, offseason workout and weight bonuses) shall be deemed “likely to be earned.”
    TGC Likely to Be Earned Any team performance will be automatically deemed to be “Likely to be earned” if the Team met or exceeded the specified performance during the prior League Year.
    Any team performance-related incentive will be revalued under the “likely to be earned” rules if the contract is assigned to a new Team through trade or waiver.
    Any incentive bonus based on the team’s performance automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned” if it sets a minimum level of statistical performance that is equal to or lower than that achieved by the team finishing fifth from the bottom in the League in the applicable category during the previous season.
    Any incentive bonus that is based upon the team achieving a particular ranking in its performance relative either to other teams in the League, or to other teams in its Conference, automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned” if it sets a ranking level equal to or lower than fifth from the bottom of the League or third from the bottom of the Conference, respectively.
    Any incentive bonus based on the team’s ranking in its Division automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned.”
    Any incentive bonus that is stated in terms of a per play or per game occurrence automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned” to the extent the specified performance was achieved by the player (if an individual incentive) or by the team (if a team incentive) in the previous year.
    Any incentive bonus to a kicker or punter for leading his team in any kicking or punting category automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned.”
    Any roster bonus which is deemed not “likely to be earned” based upon the player’s performance during the prior year shall immediately be included in Team Salary when earned. Preseason roster bonuses are automatically deemed “likely to be earned.”

 

“NLTBE” Incentives – Don’t count against the Cap

    Any team performance will be automatically deemed to be “not likely to be earned” if the Team did not meet the specified performance during the prior League Year.
    TGC Not likely to be earned incentives  Any incentive bonus based on the team’s performance automatically will be deemed “not likely to be earned” if it sets a minimum level of statistical performance that is equal to or higher than that achieved by the team finishing fifth from the top of the League in the applicable category during the previous season.
    Any incentive bonus that is based upon the team achieving a particular ranking in its performance relative either to other teams in the League, or to other teams in its Conference, automatically will be deemed “not likely to be earned” if it sets a ranking level equal to or higher than fifth from the top of the League or third from the top of the Conference, respectively.

[southwest1]

11 hours ago, bayone said:

 

 

This story just gets weirder & see 2nd article link that follows on how a former agent says it can get done

 

Excerpt long article

 

The trade saga involving Colin Kaepernick and the Denver Broncos seems to give us a new twist every day, so it shouldn't surprise anyone to learn that we possibly have another one.

According to CSN Bay Area, the 49ers quarterback is actually willing to take a pay cut to help make a trade happen. However, there's still one huge issue: the amount of the pay cut.

Although it was initially believed that the Broncos wanted Kaepernick to take a $4.9 million pay cut, apparently the number is actually bigger than that. According to CSN, the Broncos want Kaepernick to agree to a restructured deal that would pay him $7 million in both 2016 and 2017, which would be a huge loss for Kaepernick.

Kaepernick has a guaranteed salary of $11.9 million in 2016, so if he agreed to the Broncos' new deal, that would mean a $4.9 million loss for the upcoming season, which was previously reported.

In 2017 though, Kaepernick would take a bigger loss in Denver: His base salary is scheduled to be $14.5 million, which means he would be taking a $7.5 million pay cut for 2017 if he were to agree to the Broncos' proposed deal.

If Kaepernick took that offer, that would cost him a total of $12.4 million in base salary over the next two seasons.

Kaepernick also has $2 million in roster bonuses built into his contract for each of the next two seasons, so he could potentially be out a total of $16.4 million if he restructures his contract the way the Broncos are asking.

Kaepernick's willing to take any pay cut, that's a good sign for the Broncos, because it likely means he wants out of San Francisco so badly that he's willing to take less money. He's just not willing to play a drastically lower salary.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25543599/report-kaepernick-willing-to-take-pay-cut-but-theres-still-one-huge-issue

Long detailed article by Joel Corry , Former Sports Agent on how deal can get done

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25543374/agents-take-how-colin-kapernick-could-still-end-up-on-the-broncos

After the draft, I could see Colin in Colorado. I'm not going into 2016 with Mark Sanchise as the starting QB in Denver if I'm John Elway. Kap is still in play to me. Thanks for the valuable info as always Barry. Good stuff! Let the NFL soap opera resume in the rocky mountains I guess. 

[oldunclemark]

10 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Like most everything else, it is n the rules and CBA approved.  Setting incentives for Kaep moving over to Denver seems to have challenges based on the LTBE/NLTBE rules below.  Here you go...

 

“LTBE” Incentives – Count against the Cap

    Any and all incentive amounts, including but not limited to performance bonuses, shall be included in Team Salary if they are “likely to be earned” during such League Year based upon the player’s and/or Team’s performance during the prior year.
    Any incentive in year one of a Rookie Contract shall be deemed “likely to be earned.”
    Any incentive within the sole control of the player (e.g., nonguaranteed reporting bonuses, offseason workout and weight bonuses) shall be deemed “likely to be earned.”
    TGC Likely to Be Earned Any team performance will be automatically deemed to be “Likely to be earned” if the Team met or exceeded the specified performance during the prior League Year.
    Any team performance-related incentive will be revalued under the “likely to be earned” rules if the contract is assigned to a new Team through trade or waiver.
    Any incentive bonus based on the team’s performance automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned” if it sets a minimum level of statistical performance that is equal to or lower than that achieved by the team finishing fifth from the bottom in the League in the applicable category during the previous season.
    Any incentive bonus that is based upon the team achieving a particular ranking in its performance relative either to other teams in the League, or to other teams in its Conference, automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned” if it sets a ranking level equal to or lower than fifth from the bottom of the League or third from the bottom of the Conference, respectively.
    Any incentive bonus based on the team’s ranking in its Division automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned.”
    Any incentive bonus that is stated in terms of a per play or per game occurrence automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned” to the extent the specified performance was achieved by the player (if an individual incentive) or by the team (if a team incentive) in the previous year.
    Any incentive bonus to a kicker or punter for leading his team in any kicking or punting category automatically will be deemed “likely to be earned.”
    Any roster bonus which is deemed not “likely to be earned” based upon the player’s performance during the prior year shall immediately be included in Team Salary when earned. Preseason roster bonuses are automatically deemed “likely to be earned.”

 

“NLTBE” Incentives – Don’t count against the Cap

    Any team performance will be automatically deemed to be “not likely to be earned” if the Team did not meet the specified performance during the prior League Year.
    TGC Not likely to be earned incentives  Any incentive bonus based on the team’s performance automatically will be deemed “not likely to be earned” if it sets a minimum level of statistical performance that is equal to or higher than that achieved by the team finishing fifth from the top of the League in the applicable category during the previous season.
    Any incentive bonus that is based upon the team achieving a particular ranking in its performance relative either to other teams in the League, or to other teams in its Conference, automatically will be deemed “not likely to be earned” if it sets a ranking level equal to or higher than fifth from the top of the League or third from the top of the Conference, respectively.

Thanks again..I did not know any of this.

So since Denver was the No,.1 overall seed and won the division, conference and league title, they cant base Kap's incentives on team W-L success if they don't want it to count on the 2016 cap.  They obviously did all those things last season.

 

What occurs to me is: They could give Kap incentive cash if Denver has a Top-10 offense in 2016.....

Thats something they did not do in 2015

 

But the easier answer would be to guarantee Kap $14 mil over 2 years

 

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

23 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Normally, I agree 98% with your take on things Jvan, but Colin has a good arm, scrabbles well, would run Kubiak's naked bootlegs well, & he did take the 49ers to a SB. 

 

I honestly don't think there is that much to fix with Kaep. I'd come up to $9,000,000 for him. If Colin were smart, he'd take less money to win in Denver with an elite defense. He'd make his money back in Denver anyway. After Chip Kelly destroyed the Eagles roster, he lost all NFL credibility with me. 

There's nothing that you can disagree with about his post though. He said kaep was no better than Sanchez; he is both objectively and subjectively correct. Kaep sucked the big one last season. 

[southwest1]

5 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

There's nothing that you can disagree with about his post though. He said kaep was no better than Sanchez; he is both objectively and subjectively correct. Kaep sucked the big one last season. 

Eh, I don't know. To say that 2 QBs sucked equally in 1 season isn't really all that profound. So, being accurate in a generic statement doesn't really mean much in terms of a lasting conclusion for either Mark or Colin. 

 

All people in Denver will think is "Really? Mr. Butt Fumble is going to lead the defending SB champions into battle in Sept.? Please John Elway find a field general with SB experience at least that gives your fan base confidence. Colin provides that...Peace of mind."