Defensive Cornerstone

[BProland85]

Outside of Andrew Luck, this team has no leaders going forward in my opinion. What this team needs more than anything, is a defensive leader that can be the mainstay to build around for years. I think a lack of character and leadership really plagued this team this year, and D'Qwell Jackson, the supposed leader, showed his true colors in his postgame quote after the loss against Houston. For those who didn't see it, basically 30 minutes after the game he didn't sound too upset with the loss, saying he is thankful for spending time with his family for the holidays.

 

Indy needs a guy on defense who is an all out baller ala JJ Watt who will uplift the rest of the defense. Vontae Davis is a nice piece and a very good corner, but he's not a player to completely build around on defense. A few options that could fill this role in my opinion are ILB Jaylon Smith and Myles Jack. ILBs seem to be good leaders of defenses, and these two are the top talents at that position in the draft. Outside of these players, another who is said to be a good leader is OLB Jordan Jenkins.

 

Any other suggestions who you could see as good leaders of this team going forward? Particularly on defense? I only suggested draft prospects since leaders are more found when they are grown within a scheme via the draft.

[jet1968]

I would like to see 11 defensive leaders

[tvturner]

Robert Mathis has been our defensive leader for years

[BProland85]

Just now, jet1968 said:

I would like to see 11 defensive leaders

Wouldn't everyone but it rarely ever happens that way. Trying to be more realistic. Right now Indy has no defensive leaders so adding a few would certainly help.

[jameszeigler834]

14 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Outside of Andrew Luck, this team has no leaders going forward in my opinion. What this team needs more than anything, is a defensive leader that can be the mainstay to build around for years. I think a lack of character and leadership really plagued this team this year, and D'Qwell Jackson, the supposed leader, showed his true colors in his postgame quote after the loss against Houston. For those who didn't see it, basically 30 minutes after the game he didn't sound too upset with the loss, saying he is thankful for spending time with his family for the holidays.

 

Indy needs a guy on defense who is an all out baller ala JJ Watt who will uplift the rest of the defense. Vontae Davis is a nice piece and a very good corner, but he's not a player to completely build around on defense. A few options that could fill this role in my opinion are ILB Jaylon Smith and Myles Jack. ILBs seem to be good leaders of defenses, and these two are the top talents at that position in the draft. Outside of these players, another who is said to be a good leader is OLB Jordan Jenkins.

 

Any other suggestions who you could see as good leaders of this team going forward? Particularly on defense? I only suggested draft prospects since leaders are more found when they are grown within a scheme via the draft.

I don't know if anybody agrees with this but I'm going to say it anyway this team looks to me like it is quitting after 3 straight losses we didn't look like we cared about beating the Texans or not considering had lots of chances to put that game away failed. As far as I'm concerned we did this to ourselves by not fixing this team in the offseason and no by fixing it I don't mean go out and sign 34 year old free agents who are not going to help you do anything. Also the only over 30 years old player in the 2015 free agent class that has really done anything is Gore aside from him the other over 30 players we brought in haven't done nothing.

[BProland85]

15 minutes ago, Booker23 said:

Robert Mathis has been our defensive leader for years

I said going forward. Mathis maybe has a year or two left.

[BOTT]

11 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I said going forward. Mathis maybe has a year or two left.

Not with the colts

[Iancolts]

We need to draft strictly oline and defense.  We have too!!  I complain a lot about our oline and defense players.  But I watched Pittsburgh played closely the last two or three games.  Even Pitts with a banged up oline can torch defenses.  And Pittsburghs defense has couple of LB besides that they have zero on defense.  Why can a team like Pittsburghs throw the ball all over the field and we can't?  I'm tired of colts team building zero defense!!

[Bleedin Blue]

I think a lot of players are, and this is my opinion only, seeing the writing on the wall with Andrew and while they might not be mailing it in, they are certainly finding it hard to motivate every down when they know the O-side of the ball just doesn't have the spark it used to have. 

[JRnINDY]

RUSH OLB - Emmanual Ogbah Okc St is a fiery get it done leader.

DE - Jonathan Bullard is a stud and team leader on Fla. D

 

would love for the Colts to build with them on D.

[Jackie Daytona]

31 NFL teams need "an all-out baller" like JJ Watt  OP

[BloodyChamp]

3 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

31 NFL teams need "an all-out baller" like JJ Watt  OP

Yeah...and in this era they are so rare. To be the equivalent of LT, Jack Youngblood, etc in this era is to be better than them because of this era...if that makes any sense. 

[CantBeStopped]

Nick Martin C-Notre Dame in the 2nd. Could be the leaderbof our oline for the next decade+

[ProblChld32]

12 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Outside of Andrew Luck, this team has no leaders going forward in my opinion. What this team needs more than anything, is a defensive leader that can be the mainstay to build around for years. I think a lack of character and leadership really plagued this team this year, and D'Qwell Jackson, the supposed leader, showed his true colors in his postgame quote after the loss against Houston. For those who didn't see it, basically 30 minutes after the game he didn't sound too upset with the loss, saying he is thankful for spending time with his family for the holidays.

 

Indy needs a guy on defense who is an all out baller ala JJ Watt who will uplift the rest of the defense. Vontae Davis is a nice piece and a very good corner, but he's not a player to completely build around on defense. A few options that could fill this role in my opinion are ILB Jaylon Smith and Myles Jack. ILBs seem to be good leaders of defenses, and these two are the top talents at that position in the draft. Outside of these players, another who is said to be a good leader is OLB Jordan Jenkins.

 

Any other suggestions who you could see as good leaders of this team going forward? Particularly on defense? I only suggested draft prospects since leaders are more found when they are grown within a scheme via the draft.

 

Robert Mathis bro, He's been the cornerstone of this Defense and is the true definition of a leader..

[BOTT]

10 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

Yeah...and in this era they are so rare. To be the equivalent of LT, Jack Youngblood, etc in this era is to be better than them because of this era...if that makes any sense. 

Watt is better than them

[BloodyChamp]

It seems blasphemous to say it, but he might be better than every one of those bone crushers. When you play defense as well as he does in spite of the fact that it's almost impossible to play defense compared to the days of defense, you have to be the best.

[NewColtsFan]

On December 23, 2015 at 6:28 PM, jameszeigler834 said:

I don't know if anybody agrees with this but I'm going to say it anyway this team looks to me like it is quitting after 3 straight losses we didn't look like we cared about beating the Texans or not considering had lots of chances to put that game away failed. As far as I'm concerned we did this to ourselves by not fixing this team in the offseason and no by fixing it I don't mean go out and sign 34 year old free agents who are not going to help you do anything. Also the only over 30 years old player in the 2015 free agent class that has really done anything is Gore aside from him the other over 30 players we brought in haven't done nothing.

 

When you have the worst o-line in football and a 40-year old beat-up quarterback your offense doesn't play well.

 

And when you have no playmakers on defense except Vonte,  then your defense isn't very good.

 

The players care plenty -- but there aren't enough good ones,  and not enough healthy ones to make a difference.

 

The players would love to be in the playoffs in January.     But just because that's not going to happen, doesn't mean they don't care.

 

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

When you have the worst o-line in football and a 40-year old beat-up quarterback your offense doesn't play well.

 

And when you have no playmakers on defense except Vonte,  then your defense isn't very good.

 

The players care plenty -- but there aren't enough good ones,  and not enough healthy ones to make a difference.

 

The players would love to be in the playoffs in January.     But just because that's not going to happen, doesn't mean they don't care.

 

We definitely don't have the worst O line in football unless your strictly speaking of the shuffling we have had to do. Make Adams has also been a playmaker for us. It can be argued he was a pro bowl snub with the numbers he put up in only 11 starts to this point this year. All my opinion of course

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, Gavin said:

We definitely don't have the worst O line in football unless your strictly speaking of the shuffling we have had to do. Make Adams has also been a playmaker for us. It can be argued he was a pro bowl snub with the numbers he put up in only 11 starts to this point this year. All my opinion of course

 

We can't run the ball.

We can't pass block.

That equals the worst o-line in football.     Harrison, Thornton and Good are a disaster.    Castanzo himself admits he was having the worst year of his career  -- and then he got hurt.    Mewhort is fine, but not special.    That equals the worst OL in football.     By a mile.     I can't even begin to guess who would be 2nd worst?

As for playmakers,  Adams is a nice player,  but no offensive coordinator we face loses sleep over Adams. 

We have Vonte, and that's it.    We get almost nothing from our OLB's,  and the corner opposite Davis is a revolving door.     Our DL has no real difference makers.     They're OK against the run,  but not better than that.   And they generate little pass rush.      Out of 11 starters,  we have one special or elite player -- Vonte Davis.

 

Sorry,  but after 4-years of the current front office,  there's just not enough talent on this roster.    Not by a long shot.

 

[Gavin]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We can't run the ball.

We can't pass block.

That equals the worst o-line in football.     Harrison, Thornton and Good are a disaster.    Castanzo himself admits he was having the worst year of his career  -- and then he got hurt.    Mewhort is fine, but not special.    That equals the worst OL in football.     By a mile.     I can't even begin to guess who would be 2nd worst?

As for playmakers,  Adams is a nice player,  but no offensive coordinator we face loses sleep over Adams. 

We have Vonte, and that's it.    We get almost nothing from our OLB's,  and the corner opposite Davis is a revolving door.     Our DL has no real difference makers.     They're OK against the run,  but not better than that.   And they generate little pass rush.      Out of 11 starters,  we have one special or elite player -- Vonte Davis.

 

Sorry,  but after 4-years of the current front office,  there's just not enough talent on this roster.    Not by a long shot.

 

Im not debating we don't have enough talent on the roster....As a matter of fact I even said we simply don't have enough talent on the roster  recently in one of the threads this week. Im speaking about our regular starting O Line....Castonzo...Mewhort....Holmes (Though apparently we switched that again to Harrison)...Thornton...Reitz. As bad as they have been at different times I don't think the stats hold up that they are the worst in football.....And I have been very critical of them time and time again and by no means do I think they are sufficient. Seattles is pretty bad, Jacksonvilles, St Louis. San Diego, Miami

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Im not debating we don't have enough talent on the roster....As a matter of fact I even said we simply don't have enough talent on the roster  recently in one of the threads this week. Im speaking about our regular starting O Line....Castonzo...Mewhort....Holmes (Though apparently we switched that again to Harrison)...Thornton...Reitz. As bad as they have been at different times I don't think the stats hold up that they are the worst in football.....And I have been very critical of them time and time again and by no means do I think they are sufficient. Seattles is pretty bad, Jacksonvilles, St Louis. San Diego, Miami

 

Why are you talking about our line in September?!?      I'm talking about RIGHT NOW!!     

 

We're not playing Holmes/Thornton/Reitz

 

We've been playing Harrison/Thornton/Good.    Why do you think our offense is shutting down?     The line can't block my mother and she died 25 years ago!!    (But to be fair,  she was a great pass rusher in her prime!)

 

For whatever reason Holmes has yet to pan out and Reitz is viewed by the team as a 6th man on the line and he's forced to start because we can't find a solid right tackle.

 

This has been a nightmare!

 

Holy cow,  I just read the rest of your post?!?    OMG?!?!?

 

Among bad lines you mention Seattle and St. Louis?     Please!!     I'd KILL to have their lines!    How do you think Lynch/Rawls have been running so well?     How do you think RW has been passing so well?    You can't do that without a good line.     They may not be great,  but they're good.     Same with Seattle,  lots of young players,  but do you see Gurley running well?     Yes!     They can block!

 

What do you think the chances are that the Colts will go out and get new players for the O-line?!?

I'm talking Free Agency and the Draft.     I think there's a great chance we do that and that's because our talent is terrible on the line.     We've got 2/5ths of an O-line.    We need at least 2, if not 3 new pieces.    I'm not sure what and why you're defending what we have?

 

I think this is the worst O-line Grigson has put on the field in his 4-years.     The worst.

 

[Gavin]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Why are you talking about our line in September?!?      I'm talking about RIGHT NOW!!     

 

We're not playing Holmes/Thornton/Reitz

 

We've been playing Harrison/Thornton/Good.    Why do you think our offense is shutting down?     The line can't block my mother and she died 25 years ago!!    (But to be fair,  she was a great pass rusher in her prime!)

 

For whatever reason Holmes has yet to pan out and Reitz is viewed by the team as a 6th man on the line and he's forced to start because we can't find a solid right tackle.

 

This has been a nightmare!

 

Holy cow,  I just read the rest of your post?!?    OMG?!?!?

 

Among bad lines you mention Seattle and St. Louis?     Please!!     I'd KILL to have their lines!    How do you think Lynch/Rawls have been running so well?     How do you think RW has been passing so well?    You can't do that without a good line.     They may not be great,  but they're good.     Same with Seattle,  lots of young players,  but do you see Gurley running well?     Yes!     They can block!

 

What do you think the chances are that the Colts will go out and get new players for the O-line?!?

I'm talking Free Agency and the Draft.     I think there's a great chance we do that and that's because our talent is terrible on the line.     We've got 2/5ths of an O-line.    We need at least 2, if not 3 new pieces.    I'm not sure what and why you're defending what we have?

 

I think this is the worst O-line Grigson has put on the field in his 4-years.     The worst.

 

Wilson does a lot of scrambling and he also has 502 of Seattles rushing yards on scrambles though obviously(and averages 35.8 of there yards a game) Rawles was playing great prior to injury (averaging 63.8 yards a game on an average on just 11 carries a game). Also I posted in another thread (Ill have to go check as I forget the exact thread) that Gore has only been stuffed at the LOS 24 times out of 226 carries according to Sporting Charts.com

 

This O Line while bad is definitely not worse then the 2012 mess

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Gavin said:

Wilson does a lot of scrambling and he also has 502 of Seattles rushing yards on scrambles though obviously(and averages 35.8 of there yards a game) Rawles was playing great prior to injury (averaging 63.8 yards a game on an average on just 11 carries a game). Also I posted in another thread (Ill have to go check as I forget the exact thread) that Gore has only been stuffed at the LOS 24 times out of 226 carries according to Sporting Charts.com

 

This O Line while bad is definitely not worse then the 2012 mess

 

We can agree to disagree if the current o-line is better or worse than 2012.

 

But the difference is in 2012,  we had an 80 million dollar salary cap and 40 million of dead space.

 

We didn't have much choice or options on who we signed.   That was supposed to be a one-year stop-gap line.

That's why we drafted two lineman (Thornton/Holmes) and signed to FA lineman (Cherilus/Thomas) in the Spring of '13.     THAT was supposed to fix the line.      Clearly it didn't/hasn't.

 

Now, this is year 4 of our o-line mess and Grigson STILL hasn't gotten it right.    We started the year with Mewhort at RT.     That lasted two games.     Moving him back to guard then put Reitz as the new starter at RT.  The coaching staff/front office likes Reitz as a jack of all trades 6th man who can play any spot on any given week. 

 

When Reitz got hurt, which he does when he plays a lot,  that forced us to play Good at RT.    Someday that kid may be decent.     But that someday isn't in 2015.    And I'm not sure I want to find out about 2016.    Which is why I want to spend a high pick (2/3) on a right tackle in the '16 draft. 

 

So Grigson has had 4 years to get the line right,  and hasn't.    The offense can't do anything with a bad line.   To me,   that's a firing offense.     I don't know if Irsay will let Grigson go,  but I've seen enough of a poor roster to lose faith in Grigson.     And I've been among his biggest supporters for 3 and a half years.

 

Not anymore.    Hope that clarifies.

 

 

[Dustin]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We can agree to disagree if the current o-line is better or worse than 2012.

 

But the difference is in 2012,  we had an 80 million dollar salary cap and 40 million of dead space.

 

We didn't have much choice or options on who we signed.   That was supposed to be a one-year stop-gap line.

That's why we drafted two lineman (Thornton/Holmes) and signed to FA lineman (Cherilus/Thomas) in the Spring of '13.     THAT was supposed to fix the line.      Clearly it didn't/hasn't.

 

Now, this is year 4 of our o-line mess and Grigson STILL hasn't gotten it right.    We started the year with Mewhort at RT.     That lasted two games.     Moving him back to guard then put Reitz as the new starter at RT.  The coaching staff/front office likes Reitz as a jack of all trades 6th man who can play any spot on any given week. 

 

When Reitz got hurt, which he does when he plays a lot,  that forced us to play Good at RT.    Someday that kid may be decent.     But that someday isn't in 2015.    And I'm not sure I want to find out about 2016.    Which is why I want to spend a high pick (2/3) on a right tackle in the '16 draft. 

 

So Grigson has had 4 years to get the line right,  and hasn't.    The offense can't do anything with a bad line.   To me,   that's a firing offense.     I don't know if Irsay will let Grigson go,  but I've seen enough of a poor roster to lose faith in Grigson.     And I've been among his biggest supporters for 3 and a half years.

 

Not anymore.    Hope that clarifies.

 

 

 

Reitz didn't get hurt. AC did.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

Reitz didn't get hurt. AC did.

 

Yup.    Thanks!     Good catch.

 

Appreciate it.

 

[rock8591]

Thanks for whoever mentioned dead cap space.

 

That's why Trent Cole was not a bad signing - when he's cut this offseason, we save $6,250,000 and only absorb $1,000,000 of dead cap (not a typo). It was pretty much the equivalent of the veteran's minimum on a 1 year deal.

[Surge89]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Why are you talking about our line in September?!?      I'm talking about RIGHT NOW!!     

 

We're not playing Holmes/Thornton/Reitz

 

We've been playing Harrison/Thornton/Good.    Why do you think our offense is shutting down?     The line can't block my mother and she died 25 years ago!!    (But to be fair,  she was a great pass rusher in her prime!)

 

For whatever reason Holmes has yet to pan out and Reitz is viewed by the team as a 6th man on the line and he's forced to start because we can't find a solid right tackle.

 

This has been a nightmare!

 

Holy cow,  I just read the rest of your post?!?    OMG?!?!?

 

Among bad lines you mention Seattle and St. Louis?     Please!!     I'd KILL to have their lines!    How do you think Lynch/Rawls have been running so well?     How do you think RW has been passing so well?    You can't do that without a good line.     They may not be great,  but they're good.     Same with Seattle,  lots of young players,  but do you see Gurley running well?     Yes!     They can block!

 

What do you think the chances are that the Colts will go out and get new players for the O-line?!?

I'm talking Free Agency and the Draft.     I think there's a great chance we do that and that's because our talent is terrible on the line.     We've got 2/5ths of an O-line.    We need at least 2, if not 3 new pieces.    I'm not sure what and why you're defending what we have?

 

I think this is the worst O-line Grigson has put on the field in his 4-years.     The worst.

 

 

I usually agree with a ton of what you say, but this post is very far from the truth.  Seattle and St. Louis both have atrocious oline play and San Diego could easily win title of worst oline in football and that's even when healthy.

 

The Colts don't have a lack of talent on the oline IF the coaching staff plays the best 5.  Costanzo, Mewhort, Holmes, Thornton, and Reitz are top 15 oline in the league.  Now that might be skewed by the lack of good olineman in general in the whole league but it still rings true that they are a good unit.  Our coaching staff refuses to put them in a position to succeed.  Harrison is a candidate to be worst center in the league no question but Thornton has been playing amazing ball this year. And Reitz has been more than serviceable. If Holmes would just be given a chance I think he'd grow into a good center in the NFL.  

 

Plus you forget this line at the beginning of the year this oline was so good Luck had the notorious dub of being the longest time to pass in the entire league...

[crazycolt1]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2015 at 11:39 PM, BloodyChamp said:

Yeah...and in this era they are so rare. To be the equivalent of LT, Jack Youngblood, etc in this era is to be better than them because of this era...if that makes any sense. 

I understand what you are saying but with the talent from the top to the bottom of the NFL it does take a special player to stand out. What you had with the old time players is those mentioned were head above the rest of the players in that regards. Todays players are better trained, bigger, faster and work year round where it wasn't always that way in the past. Go back in time and NFL players had full time jobs outside of the NFL. Unheard of in todays NFL.

[DougDew]

47 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We can agree to disagree if the current o-line is better or worse than 2012.

 

But the difference is in 2012,  we had an 80 million dollar salary cap and 40 million of dead space.

 

We didn't have much choice or options on who we signed.   That was supposed to be a one-year stop-gap line.

That's why we drafted two lineman (Thornton/Holmes) and signed to FA lineman (Cherilus/Thomas) in the Spring of '13.     THAT was supposed to fix the line.      Clearly it didn't/hasn't.

 

Now, this is year 4 of our o-line mess and Grigson STILL hasn't gotten it right.    We started the year with Mewhort at RT.     That lasted two games.     Moving him back to guard then put Reitz as the new starter at RT.  The coaching staff/front office likes Reitz as a jack of all trades 6th man who can play any spot on any given week. 

 

When Reitz got hurt, which he does when he plays a lot,  that forced us to play Good at RT.    Someday that kid may be decent.     But that someday isn't in 2015.    And I'm not sure I want to find out about 2016.    Which is why I want to spend a high pick (2/3) on a right tackle in the '16 draft. 

 

So Grigson has had 4 years to get the line right,  and hasn't.    The offense can't do anything with a bad line.   To me,   that's a firing offense.     I don't know if Irsay will let Grigson go,  but I've seen enough of a poor roster to lose faith in Grigson.     And I've been among his biggest supporters for 3 and a half years.

 

Not anymore.    Hope that clarifies.

 

 

I think you are mixing and combining some thoughts and facts that maybe shouldn't be. 

 

You should probably judge a GMs performance by what he should have known at the time, instead of just looking at a record and results.  Most every NFL talent evaluator thought Thornton, Holmes, Cherilus and Thomas were talented players...and they are.  It was a bit risky to rely on Cherilous, and Holmes' perennial bad ankles is not something that gets revealed until after he plays a lot.  DT had a horrible injury.  I don't think its fair to simply say that "That was suppose to fix the line and it didn't" and use that as a basis for letting someone go.

 

"We started the year with Mewhort at RT".  While that is a fact, the context in which you bring this up puts the blame on Grigson for this.  It may have been Pagano.  Also, there is nothing wrong with seeing if JM can hold down the RT spot, so trying him there for a couple of games is not really worthy of criticism, IMO.  Keeping him there after he has shown to not handle it very well would be a criticism......

 

...like the Harrison situation (maybe Holmes just can't go) .....but I still wouldn't know if the criticism should be directed towards Grigson or Pagano

 

 

Edit: when I say "should have known at the time"  Bill Polian signed Gary Brackett, Dallas Clark, Kelvin Hayden, and Dwight Freeney to horrible contracts...basically made them about the highest paid players at their positions when they were basically system success guys.  He should have known that at the time

[Dustin]

21 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

Thanks for whoever mentioned dead cap space.

 

That's why Trent Cole was not a bad signing - when he's cut this offseason, we save $6,250,000 and only absorb $1,000,000 of dead cap (not a typo). It was pretty much the equivalent of the veteran's minimum on a 1 year deal.

 

 

no it wasnt. He cost about $6M this season.

[rock8591]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

 

 

no it wasnt. He cost about $6M this season.

 

As long as it didn't affect a super bowl win/loss, it means nothing and won't even be a memory the second the season is over.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

I usually agree with a ton of what you say, but this post is very far from the truth.  Seattle and St. Louis both have atrocious oline play and San Diego could easily win title of worst oline in football and that's even when healthy.

 

The Colts don't have a lack of talent on the oline IF the coaching staff plays the best 5.  Costanzo, Mewhort, Holmes, Thornton, and Reitz are top 15 oline in the league.  Now that might be skewed by the lack of good olineman in general in the whole league but it still rings true that they are a good unit.  Our coaching staff refuses to put them in a position to succeed.  Harrison is a candidate to be worst center in the league no question but Thornton has been playing amazing ball this year. And Reitz has been more than serviceable. If Holmes would just be given a chance I think he'd grow into a good center in the NFL.  

 

Plus you forget this line at the beginning of the year this oline was so good Luck had the notorious dub of being the longest time to pass in the entire league...

 

I'll be diplomatic and simply say we see a completely different line.

 

The line was good at the beginning of the year?     We struggled for a first down against Buffalo, the NYJ's and Tennessee in the first half.

 

Top 15 line?      I don't see anything close.    

 

[Dustin]

30 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

 

As long as it didn't affect a super bowl win/loss, it means nothing and won't even be a memory the second the season is over.

 

30 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

As long as it didn't affect a super bowl win/loss, it means nothing and won't even be a memory the second the season is over.

 

LOL

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

I think you are mixing and combining some thoughts and facts that maybe shouldn't be. 

 

You should probably judge a GMs performance by what he should have known at the time, instead of just looking at a record and results.  Most every NFL talent evaluator thought Thornton, Holmes, Cherilus and Thomas were talented players...and they are.  It was a bit risky to rely on Cherilous, and Holmes' perennial bad ankles is not something that gets revealed until after he plays a lot.  DT had a horrible injury.  I don't think its fair to simply say that "That was suppose to fix the line and it didn't" and use that as a basis for letting someone go.

 

"We started the year with Mewhort at RT".  While that is a fact, the context in which you bring this up puts the blame on Grigson for this.  It may have been Pagano.  Also, there is nothing wrong with seeing if JM can hold down the RT spot, so trying him there for a couple of games is not really worthy of criticism, IMO.  Keeping him there after he has shown to not handle it very well would be a criticism......

 

...like the Harrison situation (maybe Holmes just can't go) .....but I still wouldn't know if the criticism should be directed towards Grigson or Pagano

 

 

Edit: when I say "should have known at the time"  Bill Polian signed Gary Brackett, Dallas Clark, Kelvin Hayden, and Dwight Freeney to horrible contracts...basically made them about the highest paid players at their positions when they were basically system success guys.  He should have known that at the time

 

When it's the 4th year of trying to get the line right,  then trying Mewhort at RT is not a good strategy backed up by the fact that it lasted two games.    Then dropped.  

 

I have no trouble with them drafting guys and signing guys.   But when it doesn't work out,  then what?

 

What did the Colts do after trying and dropping Cherilus and Thomas for two years?    We signed Todd Herrimans.     We keep trying to nickel and dime our way.     Hermann played two games and then sat on the bench and was dropped completely a week ago.     We sign one questionable guy and draft Good in the 7th.    Sorry, but that's not acceptable when the line has been a problem the first three years.    That's why everyone killed our off-season.     Grigson likes to say he's got a note to himself that he keeps on his desk at all times:   "Keep 12 upright and healthy"   (Or words to that affect...)      And he has yet to do it 4 years in to his job. 

 

We still can't pass block and we can't run block.

 

That's not acceptable to me.

[BloodyChamp]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand what you are saying but with the talent from the top to the bottom of the NFL it does take a special player to stand out. What you had with the old time players is those mentioned were head above the rest of the players in that regards. Todays players are better trained, bigger, faster and work year round where it wasn't always that way in the past. Go back in time and NFL players had full time jobs outside of the NFL. Unheard of in todays NFL.

Plus they were allowed to flat out do more on the field while today's players are not. So much of the stuff they did would be a flag today. Meanwhile Watt produces at their level minus all that stuff.

[rock8591]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

 

 

LOL

 

On the other hand, Gosder Cherilus and Laron Landry still have dead cap combined for $5-6 million or so.

[Dustin]

Just now, rock8591 said:

 

On the other hand, Gosder Cherilus and Laron Landry still have dead cap combined for $5-6 million or so.

 

Didn't cost us a super bowl so it doesn't matter.

[rock8591]

Just now, Dustin said:

 

Didn't cost us a super bowl so it doesn't matter.

They were longer contracts...affected the salary cap for multiple years. Trent Cole's contract was essentially a 1 year 1 million contract.

[gacoop1]

These free agent pick ups  this season were were not very good.  Need younger promising players either thru the draft or free agency.....GM needs to go with Pagano and hire a quality GM and/or coach that can make the difference with some no nonsense approach and quality play calling.....Sad to endure something like this for another year.

[rock8591]

What I would do:

 

sign Kelechi Osemele - 5 years, 50 million

Stefan Wisniewski - 3 years, 12 million

Aldon Smith or Junior Gallette - 1 year, 5 million prove-it deal

trade a 5th rounder to the Browns for Josh Gordon