I Told You So.....Media Related

[DougDew]

Greenberg is a commentator....   that's all.     He's free to say whatever he wants.  

 

He's free to say whatever he wants.  And Kravitz, Wells, Holder, Doyle, Keefer, Stephen A, Skip, are all free to commentate about what they want also.  

 

They're free to be judged as untrustworthy imbeciles by others. 

 

The other stuff about Irsay is irrelevant.  A person can always blame the owner for anything, if they have that mindset. 

[BOTT]

Personally, I think you should switch to decaf coffee. Less caffein would help calm you down.

There's no mass conspiracy. Media types like Mike and Mike see Big Picture. And, in their view, they see Grigson mistakes.

Mike Wells covers the team. Yes, he called Hamilton a "fall guy" but he also said Hamilton deserved to be fired. All Wells is trying to say is that the problems of the Colts are much more than just Pep Hamilton. And he's probably right.

This happens when a story unfolds over a period of months and not just a day or two. Hamilton goes today. Perhaps Pagano goes in January. And perhaps Grigson goes at the same time, or perhaps a week or two later if the coach that Irsay wants doesn't want to work with Grigson.

This is a slow moving story. It's not done yet. This will take time......

* Mike and * Mike didn't leave it at Grigson. Little * Mike went on a horribly ignorant rant about Irsay being the root of the problem.

I'm not sure what ESpN's problem is with Irsay, but several at that network love taking pop shots at him. I don't know if it stems from Irsay ripping Shefter a couple yrs back, but that seems to be when it started.

* I see this was already pointed out.

[NewColtsFan]

* Mike and * Mike didn't leave it at Grigson. Little * Mike went on a horribly ignorant rant about Irsay being the root of the problem.

I'm not sure what ESpN's problem is with Irsay, but several at that network love taking pop shots at him. I don't know if it stems from Irsay ripping Shefter a couple yrs back, but that seems to be when it started.

* I see this was already pointed out.

 

I'm only guessing here,  but my hunch would be these commentators have Irsay issues because of his own personal problems that went public.

 

They shouldn't have a problem with how the franchise has been run.    It's only been one of the better run franchises in the NFL for several decades now.....   And Irsay gets credit for that.

 

If it's something else,  then I have no idea what that is......

[NewColtsFan]

He's free to say whatever he wants.  And Kravitz, Wells, Holder, Doyle, Keefer, Stephen A, Skip, are all free to commentate about what they want also.  

 

They're free to be judged as untrustworthy imbeciles by others. 

 

The other stuff about Irsay is irrelevant.  A person can always blame the owner for anything, if they have that mindset. 

 

I think most of the guys you mentioned are commentators.

 

Some are the beat reporters for the team.     I don't think Wells is all that good.

 

Not sure about Doyle, or Keefer...   but the rest are talking heads.    

 

Most commentators are more interested in heat than light.      More interested in hot air then clear-headed understanding.

 

I'm not a big fan of most commentators.    So, I try not to get too worked up over them....   but from time to time, I'm weak and let them get under my skin.....

 

Oh well....    I'm human,  what can I tell you?

[DougDew]

* Mike and * Mike didn't leave it at Grigson. Little * Mike went on a horribly ignorant rant about Irsay being the root of the problem.

I'm not sure what ESpN's problem is with Irsay, but several at that network love taking pop shots at him. I don't know if it stems from Irsay ripping Shefter a couple yrs back, but that seems to be when it started.

* I see this was already pointed out.

Yeah.  If you transcribed his rant into text, it would be about three paragraphs.  He said Pep was sacrificed which is what happens with dysfunctional organizations.

 

If you woke up from a summer's long sleep and knew nothing about the Colts issues this season, and only had Greeny's rant to go on, you would think that Pep was the lone competent sole in a sea of bumbling *s, who sacrificed Pep in order to save themselves and could do so because they held a higher position with the team than he did. 

[DougDew]

I think most of the guys you mentioned are commentators.

 

Some are the beat reporters for the team.     I don't think Wells is all that good.

 

Not sure about Doyle, or Keefer...   but the rest are talking heads.    

 

Most commentators are more interested in heat than light.      More interested in hot air then clear-headed understanding.

 

I'm not a big fan of most commentators.    So, I try not to get too worked up over them....   but from time to time, I'm weak and let them get under my skin.....

 

Oh well....    I'm human,  what can I tell you?

Oh I agree.  I don't care that they express their opinion.  I care that they all seem to have the exact same one.

[Coltsman1788]

This team is in a death spiral.  Something had to be done.  That something was firing Pep...but he clearly is not all that ails the Colts.  This was the least disruptive shake up move that could be made at this time.   Pep is the first domino to fall of what likely will be several ending with Griggson if things aren't turned around by season's end.  It probably goes Pep (in season)...Pagano (Black Monday or after Colts get eliminated in playoffs)...Griggson (early in offseason before the start of free agency period).

[ColtRider]

Oh I agree.  I don't care that they express their opinion.  I care that they all seem to have the exact same one.

This has always been my problem as well. The blood-letting stories seem to trend like a feeding-frenzy of a hundred sharks. And, all taking huge chunks of flesh while pointing in the same direction. Diverse writing/reporting seems like it died eons ago.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Its the same media that predicted the Colts as super bowl contenders? Those who follow this team on a daily basis hoped for the best, another over achieving team that could overcome its mistakes. But a lot also feared the worse. Luck has always made incredible plays, then made throws that left one baffled, and put the team in scoreboard peril. A lot of throws luckily weren't intercepted, now they are. And the comebacks aren't happening. Where is the 4th year progress? Is it coaching or was Luck anointed too soon as an elite QB? If Luck continues to regress then yes, Pep was a scapegoat. If he and the Colts offense improves immediately, then there lays the answer  

[BOTT]

Yeah.  If you transcribed his rant into text, it would be about three paragraphs.  He said Pep was sacrificed which is what happens with dysfunctional organizations.

 

If you woke up from a summer's long sleep and knew nothing about the Colts issues this season, and only had Greeny's rant to go on, you would think that Pep was the lone competent sole in a sea of bumbling *s, who sacrificed Pep in order to save themselves and could do so because they held a higher position with the team than he did.

Then he goes back and rips Irsay for firing Polian. The level of ignorance in his stance was staggering.

I find it odd that he and Golic ripped Grigson for the construction of the team and the latest offseason moves.....yet they both predicted the Colts to make the SB before the season.

[DougDew]

This has always been my problem as well. The blood-letting stories seem to trend like a feeding-frenzy of a hundred sharks. And, all taking huge chunks of flesh while pointing in the same direction. Diverse writing/reporting seems like it died eons ago.

The nature of, bias, or accuracy of the commentating aside...

 

It makes me wonder why shareholders bother to tolerate a dozen different media companies when they all say the same thing.  Just consolidate them all together and layoff 75% of the commentators.  The same words will be spoken with much less expense to the bottom line.

[DougDew]

Then he goes back and rips Irsay for firing Polian. The level of ignorance in his stance was staggering.

I find it odd that he and Golic ripped Grigson for the construction of the team and the latest offseason moves.....yet they both predicted the Colts to make the SB before the season.

Its what the media does when they don't know the facts.  They draw the same conclusions and write/say the same narrative.  They default to opining that its the big and powerful kicking aside the little guy to protect their undeserved position.

[ColtRider]

The nature of, bias, or accuracy of the commentating aside...

 

It makes me wonder why shareholders bother to tolerate a dozen different media companies when they all say the same thing.  Just consolidate them all together and layoff 75% of the commentators.  The same words will be spoken with much less expense to the bottom line.

Misery loves company, brother.

[cranium cramp]

Surprise, surprise... lol

Surprise, surprise... lol

Why in the name of all that's holy would any Colts fan give credence to any of the bile that Skip regurgitates from that fermented hole that he calls a mouth.

If Andrew Luck were to win the next 10 super bowls and throw for a Billion yards and a million touchdowns Griffion would still be better. I don't know why, but Skip feels toward Luck mirror many Colts fans feelings about Brady.

[DougDew]

Little Greenberg blamed Irsay again this morning.  Brian Billick said that the firing makes little impact and was not the thing to do.  He briefly talked negatively about Grigson.  Grigson was mentioned by name.

 

Predicition:  The national media will talk about the GM of the Colts more so THAN ANY GM THEY'VE EVER TALKED ABOUT in the past.  They will pick on Grigson until he his fired.  The country will know by name the GM of the Colts.  If the guy who fired Pep isn't fired, then obviously Irsay is whacked and anything that ever goes wrong will be the fault of Grigson. 

 

Interestingly, Little Greenberg also criticized the firing of Ken Wisenhunt.  The question was "Why did THEY fire Ken Wisenhunt".  Nobody knows the GM of the Titans.  They are 1 and 6, but nobody blames the GM enough to call him by name...yet they do Grigson.

 

Poor Ryan...the media sharks have targeted him personally, but yet nobody knows the names of the GM of other teams with losing records. 

[NFLfan]

Personally, I think you should switch to decaf coffee. Less caffein would help calm you down.

There's no mass conspiracy. Media types like Mike and Mike see Big Picture. And, in their view, they see Grigson mistakes.

Mike Wells covers the team. Yes, he called Hamilton a "fall guy" but he also said Hamilton deserved to be fired. All Wells is trying to say is that the problems of the Colts are much more than just Pep Hamilton. And he's probably right.

This happens when a story unfolds over a period of months and not just a day or two. Hamilton goes today. Perhaps Pagano goes in January. And perhaps Grigson goes at the same time, or perhaps a week or two later if the coach that Irsay wants doesn't want to work with Grigson.

This is a slow moving story. It's not done yet. This will take time......

Quote from a local Indy sports personality, Kent Sterling:

"Sacrificing underlings to buy time is failed strategy used often by future unemployed managers. Pep wasn't great, but not the problem"

I wonder what Colts fans expect to see from the Colts offense now. I hope the Colts can turn their season around.

[OhioColtsGirl]

Why in the name of all that's holy would any Colts fan give credence to any of the bile that Skip regurgitates from that fermented hole that he calls a mouth.

If Andrew Luck were to win the next 10 super bowls and throw for a Billion yards and a million touchdowns Griffion would still be better. I don't know why, but Skip feels toward Luck mirror many Colts fans feelings about Brady.

I don't watch him. Sometimes if I stumble upon his Twitter account, I like to get a good laugh. Other than that, I pay no attention to him.

[tikyle]

Everyone in here who's hairs on fire and is all up in arms about the media, riddle me this........

 

If we get Chud calling the best plays that have ever been called.  That totally fools the D every snap, and Luck still stares down TY and throws it late/high/low/in double and triple coverage will anything change?  Really?  Because everyone seemed to hate Pep but I saw guys wide open being missed or not even looked at.  I saw a mid of the NFL pack running attack with a below average offensive line.  I also saw a line who couldn't protect enough to run play action deep passes so that was taken out of the playbook.

 

I've watched every snap of the Colts this year and in no game did I find myself saying that was a dumb play call more than I found myself saying what is Luck seeing, why are they holding on run plays not even to their side and why doesn't Luck just take off instead of patting the ball in the pocket when he sees the blitz.

 

So if that's what I saw every snap, casual commentators are only going to see highlights which will HIGHLIGHT those things.  I get not liking Pep's offense.  But it was effective and it was designed to bring this team a rushing attack which it has developed much more since Luck's rookie season.

[NewColtsFan]

Quote from a local Indy sports personality, Kent Sterling:

"Sacrificing underlings to buy time is failed strategy used often by future unemployed managers. Pep wasn't great, but not the problem"

I wonder what Colts fans expect to see from the Colts offense now. I hope the Colts can turn their season around.

 

I'll just say that I respectfully disagree with Kent Sterling.

 

It was the right first step to take.      

 

There may be other steps to take in time....    but that time is NOT now.

 

In other words,  Pagano and Grigson time will likely come in January when Irsay decides what to do with them.

[DougDew]

Everyone in here who's hairs on fire and is all up in arms about the media, riddle me this........

 

If we get Chud calling the best plays that have ever been called.  That totally fools the D every snap, and Luck still stares down TY and throws it late/high/low/in double and triple coverage will anything change?  Really?  Because everyone seemed to hate Pep but I saw guys wide open being missed or not even looked at.  I saw a mid of the NFL pack running attack with a below average offensive line.  I also saw a line who couldn't protect enough to run play action deep passes so that was taken out of the playbook.

 

I've watched every snap of the Colts this year and in no game did I find myself saying that was a dumb play call more than I found myself saying what is Luck seeing, why are they holding on run plays not even to their side and why doesn't Luck just take off instead of patting the ball in the pocket when he sees the blitz.

 

So if that's what I saw every snap, casual commentators are only going to see highlights which will HIGHLIGHT those things.  I get not liking Pep's offense.  But it was effective and it was designed to bring this team a rushing attack which it has developed much more since Luck's rookie season.

The offense was not adjusting, not really trying anything different. It was failing in the same manner every week.

It makes perfect sense to fire the OC first, especially since he was never anything special to begin with, considering he didn't bring anything innovative to the job when he got here.

Its a shame that so many people get paid a lot of money to cover football, who understand that OCs get fired when offenses underperform, and they have to resort to fabricating the notion of "scapecoat" just to score points with their audience.

And they did it almost in unison, like trained soldiers saluting.

[CoachLite]

The offense was not adjusting, not really trying anything different. It was failing in the same manner every week.

It makes perfect sense to fire the OC first, especially since he was never anything special to begin with, considering he didn't bring anything innovative to the job when he got here.

Its a shame that so many people get paid a lot of money to cover football, who understand that OCs get fired when offenses underperform, and they have to resort to fabricating the notion of "scapecoat" just to score points with their audience.

And they did it almost in unison, like trained soldiers saluting.

This DougDew guy gets it. He's been spot on in several posts.

[Corndog]

And Jon Gruden just said....(The Colts) have good players, but as a team, they are not on the same page, and that's not Pep Hamilton's fault.  They don't have an offensive identity and they don't know the most effective personnel groupings.

 

What?

 

They have good players (Meaning Grigson is doing his job)  but its not Pep's fault that they don't have an offensive identity and don't know their best personnel groupings?

 

He then mentioned Andrew Luck's decision making, but failed to mention a coaches responsibility in that.

 

Even an objective analyst like Gruden can't come to the conclusion that Pep is likely MOST of the problem with the offense.  He's been corrupted too.

I think the conspiracy theory thing has gotten ridiculous, even though ESPN does have their agendas.  Gruden's point actually makes sense because it is basically saying the problem is bigger than Pep and it certainly is.   Let's read between the lines here instead of screaming "brainwashed by ESPN".  

 

"The Colts have good players but they aren't on the same page and that's not Pep Hamilton's fault."

 

Whether you want to say Grigson should stay or go, same with Pagano, it is very clear their is a rift between Grigson and Pagano.  To what degree has been debated all season, but it is obviously present.   I think this is reflected by the team, maybe some players are loyal to Pagano and some Grigson, who knows.  But players are lead by example and stability is formed from the top down.  This doesn't mean Hamilton has been a good coordinator, but it does mean the problem is bigger than him and we all know that.  

 

"They don't have an offensive identity and they don't know the most effective personnel groupings."

 

Well I don't see how you can't at least place some of the blame on Pep for this, he was in control of the offense from what we know.  We also know Pagano likes to stick more with the defensive side of the game.  The only thing I could say is that this is a knock on Grigson for suggesting/controlling team line ups.  

 

What  I do agree with is a point several pointed out in this thread, Pep was the most easily replaceable position on this team in having Chud as an in house option.  There isn't an in house GM replacement, and we don't know if there is a head coach replacement.  But at this point in the season why fire the head coach with no clear better option?  Why fire the GM when we don't even know who will replace him?  Irsay isn't an incredibly reactionary person, he doesn't fire people mid season.  He likes to sit back at the end of the season and evaluate his moves.  The real question if ESPN wants to speculate and have something to talk about is who fired Pep?  Was it Grigson, Pagano, did Grigson just let Pagano fire Pep without interfering?  

[tikyle]

The offense was not adjusting, not really trying anything different. It was failing in the same manner every week.

It makes perfect sense to fire the OC first, especially since he was never anything special to begin with, considering he didn't bring anything innovative to the job when he got here.

Its a shame that so many people get paid a lot of money to cover football, who understand that OCs get fired when offenses underperform, and they have to resort to fabricating the notion of "scapecoat" just to score points with their audience.

And they did it almost in unison, like trained soldiers saluting.

I totally agree and totally disagree with your post.

 

I agree the offense was failing in the same manner every week.  But I don't agree it was the playcalling.  Like I don't think the playcalling got "better" in 4th quarters when the offense looked much better.  The offense is not working b/c of the QB.  That same offense looked smooth with a 41 year old sick QB at the helm.

 

Pep being fired is fine if you want to cite results.  But no way does any OC succeed when their QB is leading the NFL in turnovers and turnover rate.  And those turnovers are not a result of playcalling or forcing him to do things he's not good at.

[DougDew]

deleted

[DougDew]

I totally agree and totally disagree with your post.

 

I agree the offense was failing in the same manner every week.  But I don't agree it was the playcalling.  Like I don't think the playcalling got "better" in 4th quarters when the offense looked much better.  The offense is not working b/c of the QB.  That same offense looked smooth with a 41 year old sick QB at the helm.

 

Pep being fired is fine if you want to cite results.  But no way does any OC succeed when their QB is leading the NFL in turnovers and turnover rate.  And those turnovers are not a result of playcalling or forcing him to do things he's not good at.

Whether or not you agree that the firing was justified probably belongs in another thread. I don't think anybody who has a microphone or a keyboard wants to analyze the situational playcalling, or any of the things that an OC has direct responsibility for. I don't think anybody like Holder, Wells, Doyel, Keefer, Greenberg has explored the notion that Pep was fired due to performance.

[tikyle]

Whether or not you agree that the firing was justified probably belongs in another thread. I don't think anybody who has a microphone or a keyboard wants to analyze the situational playcalling, or any of the things that an OC has direct responsibility for.

But, I predict, they will do that if Pagano gets fired. They will be quick to point out the fake punt call, or a number of time management questions, or challenge flag miscues. Things specific to HC decisions. They won't say "something had to be done"

Well the HC gaffes are much easier to spot.  You don't have to actually follow the team to see them.  And as the HC you are responsible for all.  So the media can easily quantify or at least make a good argument for Pagano (or any HC for the matter) getting fired.  All the things you posted and add record and recent play to the list and that's all they need.

 

There is a 100% chance that "something had to be done" will be echoed through the annals of sports media if Pagano gets fired anytime between now and the beginning of next season.

[DougDew]

Well the HC gaffes are much easier to spot.  You don't have to actually follow the team to see them.  And as the HC you are responsible for all.  So the media can easily quantify or at least make a good argument for Pagano (or any HC for the matter) getting fired.  All the things you posted and add record and recent play to the list and that's all they need.

So then you are acknowledging that the media doesn't know the details of what Pep has done or not done...but they have pretty much concluded that he is not to blame and is a scapegoat.

Why do they do that?

See what I mean?

[tikyle]

So then you are acknowledging that the media doesn't know the details of what Pep has done or not done...but they have pretty much concluded that he is not to blame and is a scapegoat.

Why do they do that?

See what I mean?

Yes and no sort of.  I agree with you the media hasn't watched the Colts nearly as closely as 100% of the people on this message board.  They have deemed him the "scapegoat" b/c of the organizational "strife" and the bad QB play.  They have not broken down his play calling to see if that may be a key issue as well and if his firing may still be warranted given those other issues.

 

So yes, I do agree.  Honestly if you don't deep dive into his play calling how can you really assess what he has/hasn't done?

[DougDew]

So yes, I do agree.  Honestly if you don't deep dive into his play calling how can you really assess what he has/hasn't done?

You can't. So if you haven't dove there, its tough to conclude that he wasn't to blame and that firing him won't help the situation.

I started this thread. Its about time it dies since I don't think any new ground will be broken here........

[CoachLite]

Well the HC gaffes are much easier to spot.  You don't have to actually follow the team to see them.  And as the HC you are responsible for all.  So the media can easily quantify or at least make a good argument for Pagano (or any HC for the matter) getting fired.  All the things you posted and add record and recent play to the list and that's all they need.

 

There is a 100% chance that "something had to be done" will be echoed through the annals of sports media if Pagano gets fired anytime between now and the beginning of next season.

Look, no one knows exactly where any one critical component of the problem is - being a team these are called "systemic" problems. It doesn't take a mental giant to realize the Colt's very obvious problems are the result of some internal dysfunction(s). The action taken by the Colts was the same thing most doctors do when you get really sick, they identify patterns -- symptoms -- to try and diagnose the pathology. Given the pathology, they determine which dysfunctional "parts" tend to be associated with that pathology. Finally, they draw upon consultation with other doctors. Then they start cutting out the bad parts.

 

Like doctors, this isn't perfect, but the patient could die waiting for a perfect answer. Let's patiently wait and see if the Colt's get better.

[CoachLite]

Look, no one knows exactly where any one critical component of the problem is - being a team these are called "systemic" problems. It doesn't take a mental giant to realize the Colt's very obvious problems are the result of some internal dysfunction(s). The action taken by the Colts was the same thing most doctors do when you get really sick, they identify patterns -- symptoms -- to try and diagnose the pathology. Given the pathology, they determine which dysfunctional "parts" tend to be associated with that pathology. Finally, they draw upon consultation with other doctors. Then they start cutting out the bad parts.

 

Like doctors, this isn't perfect, but the patient could die waiting for a perfect answer. Let's patiently wait and see if the Colt's get better.

As long as this "waiting to heal" took, the Colts probably tried a large number of TV "faith healers", first, without success .... So much for watchful waiting.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

And Jon Gruden just said....(The Colts) have good players, but as a team, they are not on the same page, and that's not Pep Hamilton's fault.  They don't have an offensive identity and they don't know the most effective personnel groupings.

 

What?

 

They have good players (Meaning Grigson is doing his job)  but its not Pep's fault that they don't have an offensive identity and don't know their best personnel groupings?

 

He then mentioned Andrew Luck's decision making, but failed to mention a coaches responsibility in that.

 

Even an objective analyst like Gruden can't come to the conclusion that Pep is likely MOST of the problem with the offense.  He's been corrupted too.

True

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I totally agree and totally disagree with your post.

 

I agree the offense was failing in the same manner every week.  But I don't agree it was the playcalling.  Like I don't think the playcalling got "better" in 4th quarters when the offense looked much better.  The offense is not working b/c of the QB.  That same offense looked smooth with a 41 year old sick QB at the helm.

 

Pep being fired is fine if you want to cite results.  But no way does any OC succeed when their QB is leading the NFL in turnovers and turnover rate.  And those turnovers are not a result of playcalling or forcing him to do things he's not good at.

If your calling the wrong plays then yes ever play has other options to them. Luck has played bad, but Pep IMO SUCKED!

[LockeDown]

When did it all go wrong?  Just the other day, everything was ChuckStrong and now we hear these guys have had a rift for a while.  They've only been working together for 2 years pretty much.  Did they start arguing while Chuck had cancer..for crying out loud?  

[aaron11]

anyone who thinks pep was a scapegoat hasnt been paying much attention.  sure luck has been bad, but so has pep.  

 

you dont get rid of the young franchise QB, you get rid of the coaches.  these media guys know the drill too, but they want to spin this into a better story

[RomanianColtsFan]

Sorry to say but I can't stand Mike Wells, Greg Doyel and to a certain extent Stephen Holder. Mike Wells is s basketball guy who doesn't know a lot about football, I don't even know how he could advance in his career. Doyel is a conflictual guy that all he cares is to create controversy, who is a talented writer but has no substance. And he doesn't understand the technical aspects of football either.