Calls for Peyton to be benched

[jvan1973]

probably. its not like peyton has done much to help them win. no impressive wins and barely beating teams like the ravens chiefs vikings and raiders and the record of the teams they have beaten are 4-15

So tell me how much you have watched brock? Does he have the ability to read a defense? Can he spot a blitz and audible out of a bad play?

[CR91]

So tell me how much you have watched brock? Does he have the ability to read a defense? Can he spot a blitz and audible out of a bad play?

 

no one said peyton cant still do that, but his tools are diminishing. the only thing carrying the broncos are their defense 

[jvan1973]

no one said peyton cant still do that, but his tools are diminishing. the only thing carrying the broncos are their defense

The defense is certainly the strength of their team. But to say any one could step in and they would be undefeated is incorrect

[CR91]

The defense is certainly the strength of their team. But to say any one could step in and they would be undefeated is incorrect

 

I didnt say that. what i said was peyton isnt the reason their undefeated

[jvan1973]

I didnt say that. what i said was peyton isnt the reason their undefeated

He is certainly a reason. But not the reason

[CR91]

He is certainly a reason. But not the reason

 

if anything, peyton is the reason their barely winning against weak opponents among other reasons. 

[jvan1973]

if anything, peyton is the reason their barely winning against weak opponents among other reasons.

So you are saying any qb could have them undefeated at this point. And as I said, that isn't correct. You really should watch the games and not just the highlights

[CR91]

So you are saying any qb could have them undefeated at this point. And as I said, that isn't correct. You really should watch the games and not just the highlights

 

actually since I have a number of broncos players on my fantasy team, I do watch them and peyton is a shell of his former self

[dw49]

actually since I have a number of broncos players on my fantasy team, I do watch them and peyton is a shell of his former self

 

 

He has no arm nor mobility left. The Broncos will be in deep trouble if they have to play a bad weather game in January. 

[Shane Bond]

I didnt say that. what i said was peyton isnt the reason their undefeated

2.5 minutes to go and down by 7 against Kansas. Who tied that game?.

2 minutes to go and march down for a go ahead field goal against Vikings?. Who did that?

Are we watching the same games ?.

As great as that defense is, without Peyton doing the above, they would have still lost those games.

[SteelCityColt]

To say any QB could step in a lead this team to 5-0 if obviously a fallacy, but by the same token I think you can argue Manning just doesn't have the arm at the moment to carry a team like he used to with the Colts. But so what, not many 39 year olds would. He's somewhat lucky in that he's got two very capable receivers in Thomas and Sanders, but again there's not too many QBs who can get it done without at least some receiving talent. 

 

What he does still bring is leadership and experience, that's not to be sniffed at. 

[jvan1973]

2.5 minutes to go and down by 7 against Kansas. Who tied that game?.

2 minutes to go and march down for a go ahead field goal against Vikings?. Who did that?

Are we watching the same games ?.

As great as that defense is, without Peyton doing the above, they would have still lost those games.

Just bang your head against the wall. You will get about as far as trying to explain that to some.

Clearly that defense is the strength of the team, his arm strength is bad and offensive adjustments need to be made. But to say he has had no impact on the record is asinine

[dw49]

Just bang your head against the wall. You will get about as far as trying to explain that to some.

Clearly that defense is the strength of the team, his arm strength is bad and offensive adjustments need to be made. But to say he has had no impact on the record is asinine

 

 

BTW.. I agree with you that he can still be effective. The question is if he can hold up and not lose anymore zip as the weather gets colder. Also he might wear down with all the throws a QB has to make during a week. 

[ViriLudant]

If any other QB had 6 TDs to 7 INTs, everyone would be calling him below average.

And rightly so.

[Tsarquise]

If any other QB had 6 TDs to 7 INTs, everyone would be calling him below average.

And rightly so.

lol. Andrew Luck...

[Shane Bond]

If any other QB had 6 TDs to 7 INTs, everyone would be calling him below average.

And rightly so.

What do you call him?

[ViriLudant]

What do you call him?

Peyton ?

On fumes .

But he has to be the starter at this moment in time. I'm not convinced that he can last the season. He could barely answer questions after the game. It was disconcerting , and I personally like the guy.

[18Manning]

Peyton ?

On fumes .

But he has to be the starter at this moment in time. I'm not convinced that he can last the season. He could barely answer questions after the game. It was disconcerting , and I personally like the guy.

 

Doesn't help having a sorry O line and no run game. A solid O line and run game would make a world of difference for a man pushing 40.

[ViriLudant]

Doesn't help having a sorry O line and no run game. A solid O line and run game would make a world of difference for a man pushing 40.

Fair enough, but his arm is shot. His intelligence is the only thing keeping him as a semi-effective QB right now .

[CR91]

2.5 minutes to go and down by 7 against Kansas. Who tied that game?.

2 minutes to go and march down for a go ahead field goal against Vikings?. Who did that?

Are we watching the same games ?.

As great as that defense is, without Peyton doing the above, they would have still lost those games.

Shouldn't have to come to that. Chiefs and Vikings aren't anything special

[18Manning]

Fair enough, but his arm is shot. His intelligence is the only thing keeping him as a semi-effective QB right now .

 

Perhaps, but a good O line and run game would give Peyton more options allowing less throwing. Less throwing might translate in to better throws since the pass numbers would be down (not working the arm as much). Either way, O line and run would be a big help. I'm sure the idea at the beginning of the season was to give Peyton a break with the run, but it's not working so well.

[Moose Of Woe]

Perhaps, but a good O line and run game would give Peyton more options allowing less throwing. Less throwing might translate in to better throws since the pass numbers would be down (not working the arm as much). Either way, O line and run would be a big help. I'm sure the idea at the beginning of the season was to give Peyton a break with the run, but it's not working so well.

I don't think Denver needs a particularly GOOD run game, just one that actually exists. It's a joke.

 

The pass blocking has improved. Manning has zero mobility...not that he ever was all that mobile. Independent of blocking, when Manning does try to make the throws they're usually off - particularly past 10 yards. It's more likely to be an overthrow or underthrow/INT than a completion. They're jump balls and he has to hope his guys can come back and fight for them. He has issues. I've been a supporter of his for the last 15 whatever years but it's bloody obvious. Maybe he'll turn it around, but as the season drags on I think he'll wear down even more. The guy can't even feel his fingertips  when it's WARM for crying out loud. What the heck happens in DEC/JAN/FEB?

 

I hope he turns it around, not at our expense, and wins a second ring but it'll have to be gift wrapped by the D at this rate. Pretty tough challenge for that D with an O that terrible and teams like NE and GB out there.

 

How to stop Denver's offense:

-Laugh at the run game. Seriously. Pay it zero respect.

-Let Peyton beat you long. Just cover screens/short underneath stuff.

-Shoe string tackle their backs where all it takes is someone in the stands to sneeze for them to fall. Or let them run in to a wall for 2 yards at best for 9/10 attempts.

-DEN might bust a big play once or twice a game, but if your corners and safeties don't drop easy INTs you'll get 5+ opportunities for those.

 

Denver is winning by virtue of their defense IN SPITE OF a joke of an offense. It speaks volumes for a D that is constantly on the field yet plays so well. Manning and the rest of that O have given them zero help. Woop de doo, they make some last minute drives after doing JACK SQUAT for 90% of the game. Congrats.

 

Bear in mind that the longer DEN's D is on the field due to an inept offense, the more likely injuries will get them through the weeks.  A few seem to already be creeping up.

 

And sorry, against GB/NE/any team with a half decent QB who can put up more than 20 points field goals won't cut it. DEN's D is obviously good based on their consistency but I don't think they're exactly the 2000 Ravens or 2003/2004 Pats. Offensively current Manning might be worse than Dilfer, too and he doesn't have the luxury of a good RB to hand off to.

 

This is all a bit ironic. For years Manning carried some * poor defenses (and special teams, and coaches) and now he's playing frickin' terrible and has the best D in the league. (Maybe Seattle) If this were 2-3 years ago you could start making DEN's rings now even without a run game. He has fallen. Hard.

[18Manning]

I don't think Denver needs a particularly GOOD run game, just one that actually exists. It's a joke.

 

The pass blocking has improved. Manning has zero mobility...not that he ever was all that mobile. Independent of blocking, when Manning does try to make the throws they're usually off - particularly past 10 yards. It's more likely to be an overthrow or underthrow/INT than a completion. They're jump balls and he has to hope his guys can come back and fight for them. He has issues. I've been a supporter of his for the last 15 whatever years but it's bloody obvious. Maybe he'll turn it around, but as the season drags on I think he'll wear down even more. The guy can't even feel his fingertips  when it's WARM for crying out loud. What the heck happens in DEC/JAN/FEB?

 

I hope he turns it around, not at our expense, and wins a second ring but it'll have to be gift wrapped by the D at this rate. Pretty tough challenge for that D with an O that terrible and teams like NE and GB out there.

 

How to stop Denver's offense:

-Laugh at the run game. Seriously. Pay it zero respect.

-Let Peyton beat you long. Just cover screens/short underneath stuff.

-Shoe string tackle their backs where all it takes is someone in the stands to sneeze for them to fall. Or let them run in to a wall for 2 yards at best for 9/10 attempts.

-DEN might bust a big play once or twice a game, but if your corners and safeties don't drop easy INTs you'll get 5+ opportunities for those.

 

Denver is winning by virtue of their defense IN SPITE OF a joke of an offense. It speaks volumes for a D that is constantly on the field yet plays so well. Manning and the rest of that O have given them zero help. Woop de doo, they make some last minute drives after doing JACK SQUAT for 90% of the game. Congrats.

 

Bear in mind that the longer DEN's D is on the field due to an inept offense, the more likely injuries will get them through the weeks.  A few seem to already be creeping up.

 

And sorry, against GB/NE/any team with a half decent QB who can put up more than 20 points field goals won't cut it. DEN's D is obviously good based on their consistency but I don't think they're exactly the 2000 Ravens or 2003/2004 Pats. Offensively current Manning might be worse than Dilfer, too and he doesn't have the luxury of a good RB to hand off to.

 

This is all a bit ironic. For years Manning carried some * poor defenses (and special teams, and coaches) and now he's playing frickin' terrible and has the best D in the league. (Maybe Seattle) If this were 2-3 years ago you could start making DEN's rings now even without a run game. He has fallen. Hard.

 

I agree, no spectacular run game required, just average would be good. That would give some relief to Peyton. It's a shame Peyton has such (at least currently) a good D, when the O just can't get going. When Peyton was a Colt, that was the biggest piece missing, a good D. Denver's is better than just good.

[Shane Bond]

Shouldn't have to come to that. Chiefs and Vikings aren't anything special

Thats a different discussion all together.

[amfootball]

I don't think Denver needs a particularly GOOD run game, just one that actually exists. It's a joke.

 

The run game is ineffective as it is in large part because Manning can't make the throws and defenses are pinching up at the line and crowding the box. In addition, he runs everything from the gun or pistol which telegraphs the run. The line is not good for sure but the run game being poor is due in large part to scrapping Kubes offense and the inability to challenge the defense with the deep pass.

[amfootball]

BTW.. I agree with you that he can still be effective. The question is if he can hold up and not lose anymore zip as the weather gets colder. Also he might wear down with all the throws a QB has to make during a week. 

You were 100 percent correct with everything you said in the off-season about Manning's performance this season. I remember the thread and all the grief you got and you have been spot on.  What do you think Denver can/should do at this point?

[Blue Horseshoe]

Kubiak is the one to blame not Manning.  He is the one forcing a blocking scheme which none of the linemen are prepared to use.  He is the one who is forcing a running offense on a team without reliable every down backs or proper linemen.  He is the one who disrupted Manning's preseason preparation by putting him on a pitch count.  He is the one who has stripped Manning of the primary thing which made him the best of all time, his ability to dissect situations and call all of the plays at the line of scrimmage.  All huddling up is accomplishing is allowing the defenses to swap in fresh personel, something which almost never happened when Manning was calling the plays at the line. 

 

Kubiak has completely destroyed the Denver offense and Manning is being unfairly blamed for it.

[Gramz]

How I feel about all of those foolish people calling for Peyton to be benched:    CRANK IT UP

 

[Gramz]

Kubiak is the one to blame not Manning.  He is the one forcing a blocking scheme which none of the linemen are prepared to use.  He is the one who is forcing a running offense on a team without reliable every down backs or proper linemen.  He is the one who disrupted Manning's preseason preparation by putting him on a pitch count.  He is the one who has stripped Manning of the primary thing which made him the best of all time, his ability to dissect situations and call all of the plays at the line of scrimmage.  All huddling up is accomplishing is allowing the defenses to swap in fresh personel, something which almost never happened when Manning was calling the plays at the line. 

 

Kubiak has completely destroyed the Denver offense and Manning is being unfairly blamed for it.

This ^^^    I have been saying the same.   It was *ic to try to change what has been working for Peyton.    This mix of Kub and Peyton is a real Cluster.   

[dw49]

You were 100 percent correct with everything you said in the off-season about Manning's performance this season. I remember the thread and all the grief you got and you have been spot on.  What do you think Denver can/should do at this point?

 

 

They just have to go with Peyton I think. Oswieler probably only plays in blow outs or if Manning get's dinged. Current SB odds has NE at 4-1 and Denver 12-1 to win SB. That kind of says it all. Well... not "all" I guess.

[chad72]

Perhaps, but a good O line and run game would give Peyton more options allowing less throwing. Less throwing might translate in to better throws since the pass numbers would be down (not working the arm as much). Either way, O line and run would be a big help. I'm sure the idea at the beginning of the season was to give Peyton a break with the run, but it's not working so well.

 

Yeah, there was this article about Peyton's O-line, the numbers are horrendous across the board:

 

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-whats-wrong-with-the-denver-broncos-offense.html/2/

 

When John Elway let go of Orlando Franklin, Zane Beadles and Manny Ramirez, now with Clady out for the season, you have to go "what were you thinking there, John?". It is hard enough having geriatric TEs that cannot separate asked to replace an athletic JT, you compound it with O-line gaffes. At least Elway got the defense right, which is what is allowing the Broncos hang by a thread, IMO. Peyton would gladly spread it around if he had the time or options in the slot, neither of which he has. Add to it his physical limitations, that offense is right now a mess.

 

At least with the Colts' offense, we know we can see a ceiling but with that Broncos offense, I don't see it at this point unless Kubiak lets Peyton run shotgun and run Indy offense most of the time to get a respectable 20-30 points off the offense consistently and hope the D holds up vs elite teams.

[Yoshinator]

Living in Colorado, I see every Broncos game and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Peyton is a liability to the Broncos. He is much slower in his reactions, he is less accurate, and he is having more trouble leading the offense down field to score. It's not just Manning's stats that are down, it's the whole offense. You can't say that C.J. Anderson and Ronnie Hillman are scoring and Manning is just running a run based offense. The whole offense stinks, period. You could literally replace Manning with any other starting qb at this point, and they'd do better for the Broncos. Manning has 6 tds in 5 weeks. 1 week with 3 tds. Blake Bortles has thrown 10 tds in 5 weeks, including 4 last week. That about shows where Manning is. The defense is carrying this team and for a couple weeks, has literally won the games for them with INTs or Fumbles for TDs. If Manning got benched, it wouldn't hurt the offense one bit. Manning is basically putting up Tebow production with the Defense Bailing him out, aka 2011 broncos.

[Shane Bond]

I have a weird feeling, Broncos are just warming up.

 

Cant wait for GB game and of course our beloved NE game.

 

Right now, all my energy is on my beloved Colts whooping the cheaters out of town !.

[Yoshinator]

I have a weird feeling, Broncos are just warming up.

 

Cant wait for GB game and of course our beloved NE game.

 

Right now, all my energy is on my beloved Colts whooping the cheaters out of town !.

I'm hoping to stay within 10 points of the Pats, if we keep it close or get a win, I will be happy. I'm feeling a lot better now that Luck should be back and is almost back right now. I was worried it was a really bad injury we didn't know about. Andrew looked in high spirits as well and back to his normal self. I'm hoping we can put up 28 points, that's the goal I have for the Colts this Sunday. If we can keep the Pats under 30, that's icing on the cake. I wonder if Belichick will run it on the Stanford connection?

[Shane Bond]

I'm hoping to stay within 10 points of the Pats, if we keep it close or get a win, I will be happy. I'm feeling a lot better now that Luck should be back and is almost back right now. I was worried it was a really bad injury we didn't know about. Andrew looked in high spirits as well and back to his normal self. I'm hoping we can put up 28 points, that's the goal I have for the Colts this Sunday. If we can keep the Pats under 30, that's icing on the cake. I wonder if Belichick will run it on the Stanford connection?

Pats secondary is the weakest link.

 

We have 3 of the fastest WRs in the game ( Dorsett, Hilton and Moncrief ).

 

Pep Hamilton better dial up Deep with Andrew throwing 70 yard bombs and beat the crap out of them !

[Yoshinator]

Pats secondary is the weakest link.

 

We have 3 of the fastest WRs in the game ( Dorsett, Hilton and Moncrief ).

 

Pep Hamilton better dial up Deep with Andrew throwing 70 yard bombs and beat the crap out of them !

I've only seen the Pats in the opener this year and Butler got torn up by Antonio Brown. Hilton is not as good as Brown, but they are the same type of speed receiver. Even if they double cover Hilton, I can't see this secondary stopping the Colts like last year without Revis. We also have Gore, so they have to respect the run and they will give us opportunities in the pass game. Dorsett and Moncrief were two WRs I wanted us to get through the draft, Hilton I didn't know who he was as 2012 was my first year of studying the draft. I'm hoping me and Grigson were right that these guys can step up along with Hilton against the Pats. This is the Offense we dreamed of having, now it's time to execute Sunday night!

[ViriLudant]

Pats secondary is the weakest link.

We have 3 of the fastest WRs in the game ( Dorsett, Hilton and Moncrief ).

Pep Hamilton better dial up Deep with Andrew throwing 70 yard bombs and beat the crap out of them !

Because that has worked so well this season.

That o-line won't give Luck enough time.

[amfootball]

I've only seen the Pats in the opener this year and Butler got torn up by Antonio Brown. Hilton is not as good as Brown, but they are the same type of speed receiver. Even if they double cover Hilton, I can't see this secondary stopping the Colts like last year without Revis. We also have Gore, so they have to respect the run and they will give us opportunities in the pass game. Dorsett and Moncrief were two WRs I wanted us to get through the draft, Hilton I didn't know who he was as 2012 was my first year of studying the draft. I'm hoping me and Grigson were right that these guys can step up along with Hilton against the Pats. This is the Offense we dreamed of having, now it's time to execute Sunday night!

Butler did a good job on Brown. He let up some catches but nothing that was a game changer. The TD at the end was in garbage time. Pats pass defense is ranked 12. It is lot better than almost anyone could have predicted after losing Revis and Browner. The bigger issue for the Colts will be protecting Luck. The pass rush from the Pats has cranked up big time the last couple of games ...

[Yehoodi]

Its tough to know what is going in Denver as it could be a number of things or a combination of things.

 

Manning could be injured

Team working out the kinks in their offense

Manning could be having an off year

Other teammates could be having a off year.

 

Bottom line regardless if the problem is one of the above, a combination of the same, or some other issue, the Denver offense in 2015 is producing fewer offensive TDs per game than the Tim Tebow led Broncos in 2011.  So things are not going great on the offensive side of things in Denver to date this season.  

 

Its tough to bench someone when you are 5-0 unless there is clear evidence to the coach that  a single player is the problem or part of the problem.  Even then one has to evaluate the short and long term gains of benching a player, will the replacement be better initially or will he have better long term effects than keeping the existing starter.

 

So its tough to know what is going on in Denver and we should get a better idea as time goes on through the rest of the season.  

 

5 games is a small sample size to come to any conclusion unless you have inside information on what is going on (like sitting out Luck for a few games due to a shoulder injury).

[southwest1]

Its tough to know what is going in Denver as it could be a number of things or a combination of things.

 

Manning could be injured

Team working out the kinks in their offense

Manning could be having an off year

Other teammates could be having a off year.

 

Bottom line regardless if the problem is one of the above, a combination of the same, or some other issue, the Denver offense in 2015 is producing fewer offensive TDs per game than the Tim Tebow led Broncos in 2011.  So things are not going great on the offensive side of things in Denver to date this season.  

 

Its tough to bench someone when you are 5-0 unless there is clear evidence to the coach that  a single player is the problem or part of the problem.  Even then one has to evaluate the short and long term gains of benching a player, will the replacement be better initially or will he have better long term effects than keeping the existing starter.

 

So its tough to know what is going on in Denver and we should get a better idea as time goes on through the rest of the season.  

 

5 games is a small sample size to come to any conclusion unless you have inside information on what is going on (like sitting out Luck for a few games due to a shoulder injury).

This post is why I think so highly of you Yehoodi because your so logical, balanced, & fair minded. I will admit that the offense is not clicking as smoothly in seasons past with a larger number of turnovers than I am accustomed to seeing. It's early yet & I don't read that much into any picks, but I will admit Kubiack has to figure out a way to get the running game going to take pressure off Manning & start using Sanders as a decoy more to get TE Owen Daniels utilized more frequently early in games even if it's just short dump off passes. 

 

I wanna see how Peyton plays against the Chargers because Phillip Rivers can put up points & it will force Denver to get at least 24 points on the board. I'm not blaming Peyton; I'm just saying that the Broncos will need at least 20 points to stay on the field with Phillip & that Oakland game scared me a little bit. How close they were to almost losing that game.