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Is It Bad Qb Play Or Was Duron Carter Just Massively Overhyped?

RockThatBlue

By RockThatBlue
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ColtsLegacy

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Outside of the forum is relevant because "massively overhyped" implies that a lot of people besides the folks that are here everyday are talking about him. I include sites like Stampede Blue and colts.com in that assessment, because I know half of the people here are on those sites as well.

But, I also actually know a few Colts fans who've never even heard of him. They watch the games every Sunday like the rest of us, but following every transaction and every training camp play just isn't how they roll. More power to them.

As for everyone on the forum, people were excited to bring him in and see what he could do at the NFL level, myself included. I wouldn't call that "massive hype." Hype, to me, would go something like "this guy is the missing piece the Colts have been looking for to make their Super Bowl run," and I just don't remember anyone saying that.

And why is everyone already so down on him after 2 preseason games anyways? "We need to see more production, blah blah blah" Why? He's literally the cheapest player on the roster right now, and people are expecting to see flashes of Randy Moss in his first 2 NFL meetings vs someone other than Colts defenders? I guess I just think we should try to exercise a little more patience, that's all.

To the bolded: Because he was overhyped by the forum. People had unrealistic expectations for him.

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OffensivelyPC Active Roster

OffensivelyPC

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You don't get time with the 1s just because people feel sorry for you. You get it by making plays and getting noticed. That's how Parry earned some snaps with the 1s. The fact is that Carter hasn't impressed enough to earn playing with Andrew. Bad QB play or not, its still his job to get open and catch passes, neither of which he has been exceptional at.

I find it funny though is all the people making excuses for him, but then saying he's the 5th WR. It's completely hypocritical to be upset that someone projected as the 5th WR should see time with the 1s in pre-season. It also shouldn't be surprising that he isn't that good. He's raw. People just over-hyped him based on camp reports. He's still just a developmental WR who probably belongs on the practice squad.

This.  I think part of his issue is he's still learning to communicate with the QB on field (i.e. making the correct reads) in an offense that is still new to him; he hasn't had any, or very little, experience in a pro-style offense.  The CFL offense couldn't be any more different than an NFL offense, and then you throw in all the reads required on any given play.  It's just going to take some time.  Anyone who thought he'd start or see meaningful snaps, assuming the health of our WR corps, bought the hype to an unreasonable extent.  The hype is legitimate in the sense that, we could have a solid #2 or #3 WR for cheap for the next handful of years, depending on how quickly he grasps the NFL game, if at all.  If he sees a decent amount of playing time next year, he's trending in the right direction, but if he's still headed toward the practice squad in 2017, the project was a failure IMO. 

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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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The way I look at the Colts roster at WR they are going to keep five maybe six if one of the WRs can also handle return duties.  Four of those spots are locked with Hilton, Johnson, Moncrief, and Dorsett.  That leaves one maybe two spots for Whalen, Brown, and Carter (I know they have other WRs on the roster but none of them have really put themselves in the fight for a roster spot).  I think part of why you are seeing Whalen and Carter getting chances to return kicks and punts is that I think the Colts are hoping one of them can win a sixth job for a WR at returner because frankly Brown, Whalen and Carter have done nothing separate themselves in the WR battle.

 

Brown and Whalen have NFL experience to fall back on.  Carter has potential and he does have a three year deal even without much money being committed to it.  So I wouldn't be shocked to see Carter stick.  At the sametime I am not going to be shocked to see him cut and Whalen and or Brown kept because while it hasn't been much they have at least done a couple of things in the pre-season and have NFL experience to fall back on.  Its up in the air right now and it's probably going to come down to Pagano's and Grigson's gut feeling on unless someone steps up and wins a job over the next two games.   

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RockThatBlue

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Carter shouldn't even be a returner to begin with. His size is just kinda wrong for it in my opinion. Varga is much smaller and shiftier. Carter could improve with the #1's I feel like. He definitely showed it in camp. He was catching everything, could be just nerves.

I don't think carter has the speed to be a returner anyway. I honestly thought he looked kind of slow returning kicks.

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ColtsLegacy

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you look for two different things in a KR and PR. often times its the same guy, but ideally your kick returner will have a longer stride

Stride length is not their basis. They want lateral escapability/agility and acceleration for PR vs straight line speed and vision for KR.

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here's an nfl head coach praising a KR specifically because of his long stride

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/05/antonio_cromartie_impresses_as.html

All that tells me is that Cromartie is a solid kick returner with a long stride. That doesn't say long striders are what they look for in KRs.

Stride is largely irrelevant. Speed and vision is key for KRs.

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aaron11 Practice Squad

aaron11

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All that tells me is that Cromartie is a solid kick returner with a long stride. That doesn't say long striders are what they look for in KRs.

Stride is largely irrelevant. Speed and vision is key for KRs.

from that article

 

"Cromartie fielded several kickoffs in yesterday's practice, showcasing his speed and ridiculously long stride -- which coach Rex Ryan joked was "only about five yards long."

"It's crazy, isn’t it?" Ryan said. "I’ve never seen a stride like that. It’s amazing. Secretariat maybe stretched like that. He gets out there."

 

it sure doesnt say they dont look for stride lengh in kick returners.  its one of several factors that matter.  watch hester or jacoby jones, they take huge steps

 

you havent posted anything other than your own opinion that says other wise.

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from that article

 

"Cromartie fielded several kickoffs in yesterday's practice, showcasing his speed and ridiculously long stride -- which coach Rex Ryan joked was "only about five yards long."

"It's crazy, isn’t it?" Ryan said. "I’ve never seen a stride like that. It’s amazing. Secretariat maybe stretched like that. He gets out there."

 

it sure doesnt say they dont look for stride lengh in kick returners.  its one of several factors that matter.  watch hester or jacoby jones, they take huge steps

 

you havent posted anything other than your own opinion that says other wise.

 

Devin Hester doesn't have a long stride, not even close. But, you know what both Jones and Hester are? They're both extremely fast with great vision. 

 

Explain to me why, if 2 guys are the same speed, would a team prefer the guy with the longer stride for KR?

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Explain to me why, if 2 guys are the same speed, would a team prefer the guy with the longer stride for KR?

 

 

long stride runners are deceptively faster than they appear, it makes defenders more likely to take a bad angle.  Colin Kaepernick benefits from this a lot. though he is not a return man, he is a good example of the deceptive speed that comes from long strides, and defenders constantly take bad angles against him in the open field

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Buck Showalter Walk On

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Stride length is not their basis. They want lateral escapability/agility and acceleration for PR vs straight line speed and vision for KR.

 

 

it gives Kick returners an advantage.  its one of several factors

 

 

No, not really. It depends on the player and his skill set.

 

 

edit-do you have any evidence that says stride length is not a factor for return men, because i have links that support my claim

 

 

here's an nfl head coach praising a KR specifically because of his long stride

 

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/05/antonio_cromartie_impresses_as.html

 

 

All that tells me is that Cromartie is a solid kick returner with a long stride. That doesn't say long striders are what they look for in KRs.

Stride is largely irrelevant. Speed and vision is key for KRs.

 

 

from that article

 

"Cromartie fielded several kickoffs in yesterday's practice, showcasing his speed and ridiculously long stride -- which coach Rex Ryan joked was "only about five yards long."

"It's crazy, isn’t it?" Ryan said. "I’ve never seen a stride like that. It’s amazing. Secretariat maybe stretched like that. He gets out there."

 

it sure doesnt say they dont look for stride lengh in kick returners.  its one of several factors that matter.  watch hester or jacoby jones, they take huge steps

 

you havent posted anything other than your own opinion that says other wise.

 

 

Devin Hester doesn't have a long stride, not even close. But, you know what both Jones and Hester are? They're both extremely fast with great vision. 

 

Explain to me why, if 2 guys are the same speed, would a team prefer the guy with the longer stride for KR?

 

 

long stride runners are deceptively faster than they appear, it makes defenders more likely to take a bad angle.  Colin Kaepernick benefits from this a lot. though he is not a return man, he is a good example of the deceptive speed that comes from long strides, and defenders constantly take bad angles against him in the open field

 

This is awesome...

 

The Great Stride Debate of 2015...

 

Hey everybody, pull out your stride!!!

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ColtsLegacy

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long stride runners are deceptively faster than they appear, it makes defenders more likely to take a bad angle.  Colin Kaepernick benefits from this a lot. though he is not a return man, he is a good example of the deceptive speed that comes from long strides, and defenders constantly take bad angles against him in the open field

 

lmao, reach!

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Freenyfan102

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I can't fault carter what so ever. Look who throwing to him two quarterback who can't throw accurate. It like watching sonebody who is working like they are riding a unicycle and they are on fire. There equipment on fire and the building on fire and people telling him there no fire

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not a reach, its true

 

and your argument is??? :dunno:

 

I've made my argument exceedingly clear. What you're saying isn't true, it's nonsense. I asked you to give me a legitimate reason for why teams actively search for long striders for KR and your only reason is "well, they look faster". Give me a friggin' break. You're grasping at straws.

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ColtsLegacy

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you have not made an argument.  all you have said is that i am wrong and have not backed it up with anything whatsoever

 

here's another source that agrees with me http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Martavis-Bryant-79214

 

And when has "long, deceptive stride" Martavis Bryant ever returned a kick? Anyway, "long, deceptive stride" translates to Bryant being fast. What did I say were the main things looked for in KRs? Speed and vision.

 

 

Since you apparently missed it, here's my argument:

 

Stride length is not their basis. They want lateral escapability/agility and acceleration for PR vs straight line speed and vision for KR.

 

Stride is largely irrelevant. Speed and vision is key for KRs.

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ColtsLegacy

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ive posted links where an nfl head coach and college recruiter agree that you look for long stride in kick returners

 

no one has posted anything to the contrary other than im wrong/an *, but you have nothing to back it up with

 

Neither one of them said you look for long stride in a KR.

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aaron11

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Neither one of them said you look for long stride in a KR.

yes they did

 

"Bryant will make an impact as a freshman because of his speed and ability to make yards after the catch. His long, deceptive stride also makes him a perfect candidate to be a kick returner"

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ColtsLegacy

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yes they did

 

"Bryant will make an impact as a freshman because of his speed and ability to make yards after the catch. His long, deceptive stride also makes him a perfect candidate to be a kick returner"

 

"Long, deceptive stride" aka, he's fast. And that's not they, that's the obscure scout.

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ColtsLegacy

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how is there any mistaking that last quote?

 

What does "long, deceptive stride" translate to? He's fast. That does not say "Coaches look for long striders as Kick returners". And, despite this scouts claim that Bryant was a perfect candidate to be a KR, I don't think he's ever returned a kick, in college or the NFL.

 

Regardless, that is one obscure source. If I gave a % to look, every source would reference speed, vision, and decisiveness as key qualities for KRs, not stride. Of course a good long stride doesn't hurt but it also doesn't give any real advantage.

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aaron11

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I heard the all best KR listen to Tinchy Stryder..

should they listen to coltslegacy instead?  rather than a scout that has made a good living for himself. 

 

also rex ryan didnt specifically say long stride kick returners are ideal, but he came very close to saying that.  too bad we cannot ask him in person to clarify 

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SteelCityColt Hall of Famer

SteelCityColt

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should they listen to coltslegacy instead?  rather than a scout that has made a good living for himself. 

 

also rex ryan didnt specifically say long stride kick returners are ideal, but he came very close to saying that.  too bad we cannot ask him in person to clarify

Lighten up Francis it was just a bad pun...

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aaron11 Practice Squad

aaron11

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What does "long, deceptive stride" translate to?

it does not translate to anything, it means exactly what it says.  long strides are deceptive, and that is a positive for kick returners

 

 I don't think he's ever returned a kick, in college or the NFL.

 

 

he did in college, he hasnt in the nfl because his team already has a return man.  that return man also happens to have one of the longest strides in the nfl

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