Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[Bad Morty]

Just a question for all of you who feel that the NFL is above reproach in all this and that they wouldn't engage in anything shady....what were you all thinking back in the fall when an "independent investigator" determined that nobody...not one single soul...in the NFL admin had seen the Ray Rice video?

[Gramz]

as I said earlier, it's a detective novel...so theories evolve over time as either new evidence emerges or people just think more about it. I'm convinced that my theory on it now is pretty close and ties everything I know about this together with the fewest loose ends. Believe me Gramz...I wish they (the Pats) would run with this regardless of whether or not it's true...because it's very plausible and would change the way people view what happened when it comes to legacies. They may feel that that ship has sailed though, and they may also be constrained from admitting to anything while Brady's appeal is ongoing.

even tho you quoted DW49,  it looks like you were responding to my post so I have a few more questions to ask.

 

Since you are convinced that your theory is pretty close to what actually happened, aren't you also livid at the Patriots for not telling the truth in the first place?

 

Or, do you think that the SB win was more important than defending Brady's rep & legacy?

[southwest1]

That one for sure is a head scratcher 

Maybe VL just meant that there is a loyal Brady constituency outside of Boston that believes Brady is innocent of any & all wrong doing like perhaps the Michigan Wolverines since he attended college there & his wife Gisele Bündchen who is from Brazil originally. 

 

You're right though dw49. I'm at a complete loss for words here too. I have no idea what VL was driving at. I think VL's just having a bad day. Hang in there man. Even if Tom Brady must serve his full 4 game suspension, the sky is not falling on your Lombardi winning franchise. There there. It's okay. 

 

It just baffles me how VL claims I'm so biased & that I've already convicted Brady myself & yet VL either can't or won't show me any evidence that supports his point of view & I'm the misguided one. Okay, if that makes you feel better so be it. 

[Bad Morty]

 

even tho you quoted DW49,  it looks like you were responding to my post so I have a few more questions to ask.

 

Since you are convinced that your theory is pretty close to what actually happened, aren't you also livid at the Patriots for not telling the truth in the first place?

 

Or, do you think that the SB win was more important than defending Brady's rep & legacy?

 

That's a loaded question. Do you think telling "the truth" would have protected their legacy? I don't. And I think it would have put them at risk for either Brady or Belichick to get suspended for the Superbowl (and please don't tell me that there wouldn't have been a nation-wide clamoring for that...Goodell would have been under tremendous pressure). So I think they did the right thing in the immediate aftermath of this and prior to the Superbowl. At this point, the less said the better as far as I'm concerned. The team is done talking about it, Brady is appealing his suspension...we'll see how it goes and life will go on. I remember thinking football was never going to be the same when the Ray Rice thing blew up last summer...by week 2, it felt like regular old football season.

[dynasty13]

 

even tho you quoted DW49,  it looks like you were responding to my post so I have a few more questions to ask.

 

Since you are convinced that your theory is pretty close to what actually happened, aren't you also livid at the Patriots for not telling the truth in the first place?

 

Or, do you think that the SB win was more important than defending Brady's rep & legacy?

 

 

Again, the way the whole thing was handled from the beginning put them in a no-win situation period. ESPN had already falsely reported that 11 of the 12 Patriots footballs were 2 LBS under before Belichick and Brady even held their press conferences...so they were already guilty before they even held their press conferences.

 

Yes, in hindsight if they told the truth this all would probably be over...but at the same time, when the entire country is already calling you cheaters due solely to an incorrect piece of information that was later proven false, why would they not claim B.S. and fight it? 

[HOZER]

Yes, in hindsight if they told the truth this all would probably be over...but at the same time, when the entire country is already calling you cheaters due solely to an incorrect piece of information that was later proven false, why would they not claim B.S. and fight it?

But I thought they DID tell the truth?

[dynasty13]

But I thought they DID tell the truth?

 

I'm speaking to Morty's theory

 

It's clear that something happened...I'm just less sure about Brady's involvement than you guys are

[HOZER]

Maybe VL just meant that there is a loyal Brady constituency outside of Boston that believes Brady is innocent of any & all wrong doing like perhaps the Michigan Wolverines since he attended college there & his wife Gisele Bündchen who is from Brazil originally.

You're right though dw49. I'm at a complete loss for words here too. I have no idea what VL was driving at. I think VL's just having a bad day. Hang in there man. Even if Tom Brady must serve his full 4 game suspension, the sky is not falling on your Lombardi winning franchise. There there. It's okay.

VL is referring to the articles posted in the NY times and Washington post(basically the same article) defending the pats, he seems to think that if its not a Boston area report then there is no way it can be slanted or somene with an agenda.

[dw49]

VL is referring to the articles posted in the NY times and Washington post(basically the same article) defending the pats, he seems to think that if its not a Boston area report then there is no way it can be slanted or somene with an agenda.

 

We kind of knew that but nothing in SW1's post warranted that response , especially in the manner it was written. Usually when someone calls you "bud" , it's not meant in a friendly manner.

[dw49]

Maybe VL just meant that there is a loyal Brady constituency outside of Boston that believes Brady is innocent of any & all wrong doing like perhaps the Michigan Wolverines since he attended college there & his wife Gisele Bündchen who is from Brazil originally. 

 

You're right though dw49. I'm at a complete loss for words here too. I have no idea what VL was driving at. I think VL's just having a bad day. Hang in there man. Even if Tom Brady must serve his full 4 game suspension, the sky is not falling on your Lombardi winning franchise. There there. It's okay. 

 

It just baffles me how VL claims I'm so biased & that I've already convicted Brady myself & yet VL either can't or won't show me any evidence that supports his point of view & I'm the misguided one. Okay, if that makes you feel better so be it. 

 

 

It's like we have turned the world against Brady and the Pats. Can we help it if we agree with the contingency , however large it might be , that the circumstantial evidence points Brady knowing the ball boys (men) did something to the balls. We and the rest of that contingency did not frame anyone . What I find interesting about this particular thread is the media seemed to be not at all interested in this new "report." I guess that's our fault too.

[ViriLudant]

Are you asking me to read a specific article about deflate gate or the Wells Report from the Times or the Washington Post? I don't follow your reasoning VL. What does Geography have to do with anything?

You claimed that it's only New Englanders defending the Patriots.

It's clear that major newspapers OUTSIDE of New England are backing up the Patriots, newspapers that typically enjoy bashing them.

Not a difficult point.

And the point that continually eludes your grasp is this:

There is no definitive proof.

Not only that, but the scientific community backs NE. Exponent's "evidence" has been torn apart by several sources.

Walt Anderson himself said that he used the Logo gauge. That put the Patriots' balls within the Ideal Gas Laws.

[southwest1]

VL is referring to the articles posted in the NY times and Washington post(basically the same article) defending the pats, he seems to think that if its not a Boston area report then there is no way it can be slanted or somene with an agenda.

VL's primary problem in my case is that my issue is with Tom Brady & that initial press conference. The 1 where he has no idea what happened, what PSI even meant, & he's still in the dark if he thinks he's a cheater or not. 

 

Therefore, VL can't bring up air pressure, when the balls were checked, & a failure to write down numbers to me because that's not my thesis & it ticks him off that he can't use the usual ammunition on me. So, he mocks how much value I place on 1 press conference. Here's the problem though: Brady's been playing ball on a professional level for over 10 years, gripping footballs is his livelihood you can't tell me he would just allow 2 ball boys to manipulate his footballs without his consent & I can't believe it doesn't secretly bother NE fans that Brady is so flippant & eh so what about being accused of cheating. Lastly, Brady could fix this whole situation right now & he chooses not too why is that? He's bidding his time. For what? He's not on trail for murder or twittling his thumbs waiting for a Presidential pardon. It's a 4 game suspension that's it. Is NE going to unravel if Brady misses 4 little games? Hades no. What happened next man up, the Patriot Way, & no 1 player is more important to the team? Silence eh, that's what I thought VL.   

 

VL this is for you: The absence of proof is not the equivalent of innocence. 

[amfootball]

 

Or, do you think that the SB win was more important than defending Brady's rep & legacy?

 

A thousand times yes to this question. Winning THAT SB was the most important thing to Brady's legacy. This ball deflation thing in the long run won't even be a blimp whether he serves 4 games or zero. Now had he lost that SB well than you have 0 for last 3 and comparisons to Elway and Kelly. It would have been devastating to him to lose that SB way more than this silly unproven violation. Especially if they had lost 24-14 with him throwing two picks but his fourth quarter comeback was one for the ages against the best defense of the past two years - and of course it was done with the most meticulously inspected footballs in the history of the game.

[Gramz]

That's a loaded question. Do you think telling "the truth" would have protected their legacy? I don't. And I think it would have put them at risk for either Brady or Belichick to get suspended for the Superbowl (and please don't tell me that there wouldn't have been a nation-wide clamoring for that...Goodell would have been under tremendous pressure). So I think they did the right thing in the immediate aftermath of this and prior to the Superbowl. At this point, the less said the better as far as I'm concerned. The team is done talking about it, Brady is appealing his suspension...we'll see how it goes and life will go on. I remember thinking football was never going to be the same when the Ray Rice thing blew up last summer...by week 2, it felt like regular old football season.

I believe that telling the truth is always the best option.

 

While it may not have protected "their" legacy, I do think that it would have helped protect Brady's.

 

And, as D13 said . . . if they had told the truth this would probably be over

[Gramz]

A thousand times yes to this question. Winning THAT SB was the most important thing to Brady's legacy. This ball deflation thing in the long run won't even be a blimp whether he serves 4 games or zero. Now had he lost that SB well than you have 0 for last 3 and comparisons to Elway and Kelly. It would have been devastating to him to lose that SB way more than this silly unproven violation. Especially if they had lost 24-14 with him throwing two picks but his fourth quarter comeback was one for the ages against the best defense of the past two years - and of course it was done with the most meticulously inspected footballs in the history of the game.

Even IF, in the end,  it's proven he was the mastermind behind the whole thing, and then lied about it?   What does that do to his legacy?

[Shane Bond]

A thousand times yes to this question. Winning THAT SB was the most important thing to Brady's legacy. This ball deflation thing in the long run won't even be a blimp whether he serves 4 games or zero. Now had he lost that SB well than you have 0 for last 3 and comparisons to Elway and Kelly. It would have been devastating to him to lose that SB way more than this silly unproven violation. Especially if they had lost 24-14 with him throwing two picks but his fourth quarter comeback was one for the ages against the best defense of the past two years - and of course it was done with the most meticulously inspected footballs in the history of the game.

That was a banged up defense. Both safeties were badly injured.

And over the years, they will be remembered how Lance Armstrong is. Everyone already forgot he won Tour De France 7 times.

You know it and everyone in NE knows it. Don't tell me you don't care. If you don't , you won't be here trying to defend.

[amfootball]

Even IF, in the end,  it's proven he was the mastermind behind the whole thing, and then lied about it?   What does that do to his legacy?

I believe that Brady's believes he is 1000 percent innocent and is itching to get this thing into court. The report accusing him has already proven to be a falsehood by many sources.

[amfootball]

That was a banged up defense. Both safeties were badly injured.

 

LOL

[dynasty13]

That was a banged up defense. Both safeties were badly injured.

And over the years, they will be remembered how Lance Armstrong is. Everyone already forgot he won Tour De France 7 times.

You know it and everyone in NE knows it. Don't tell me you don't care. If you don't , you won't be here trying to defend.

 

I guarantee you it will not be like that. 

 

How do I know? Because if you're claiming it, there's 0% chance of it happening.

[Gramz]

I believe that Brady's believes he is 1000 percent innocent and is itching to get this thing into court. The report accusing him has already proven to be a falsehood by many sources.

You didn't answer my question.  What IF it is proven he was the mastermind, and lied.   then what..   Just for %s and giggles,  what IF?

[amfootball]

You didn't answer my question.  What IF it is proven he was the mastermind, and lied.   then what..   Just for %s and giggles,  what IF?

Winning that SB is still much, much bigger and waaay more impactful to his legacy than whatever comes of this air pressure violation.

[Shane Bond]

LOL

A LOL?.

You must have short term memory. I was one of the first to say how happy I was for you after the SB and said they deserve it.

After the deflategate, it was done.

[Shane Bond]

And the Internet stalking hero is relentless.

[amfootball]

A LOL?.

You must have short term memory. I was one of the first to say how happy I was for you after the SB and said they deserve it.

 

Good then we agree. But it was also the most important game to Brady's legacy too.

[Shane Bond]

Good then we agree. But it was also the most important game to Brady's legacy too.

Agree on what?

[dw49]

LOL

 

 

Great win by NE but to say "LOL "that the defense was not "banged up " is ridiculous. Both safeties were indeed hurt Chancellor very badly. They lost their nickel CB (Lane ) in the first quarter. They were also getting a decent pass rush on Brady until their best pass pass rusher Avril left the game with a concussion. 

[dynasty13]

And the Internet stalking hero is relentless.

 

Honest question here Shane. I have been responding to people all day in this thread. When you contribute, you become one of those people I respond to...so how is that 'stalking' you? I only ask because you make it a point to call me that every single time I respond to you and it's a little odd.

[Shane Bond]

Great win by NE but to say "LOL "that the defense was not "banged up " is ridiculous. Both safeties were indeed hurt Chancellor very badly. They lost their nickel CB (Lane ) in the first quarter. They were also getting a decent pass rush on Brady until their best pass pass rusher Avril left the game with a concussion.

Too much truth to deal with.

[amfootball]

Great win by NE but to say "LOL "that the defense was not "banged up " is ridiculous. Both safeties were indeed hurt Chancellor very badly. They lost their nickel CB (Lane ) in the first quarter. They were also getting a decent pass rush on Brady until their best pass pass rusher Avril left the game with a concussion. 

Hogwash. I did not see any of them limping around or favoring their shoulders or knee ALL game like they did vs GB. They were playing lights out for the first three quarters even without Lane in there as Pats had all of 14 points and they had gotten two picks as well. Then in the fourth quarter they were running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to cover Gronk and Vereen and Edelman. Brady systemically took them apart on those two championship drives which is why Sherman all of people came over to him at then end to shake his hand when he knelt down. That IS how impressive he was. "You mad bro" even acknowledged his performance. Now if you want to say they were gassed. Ok. But that was because Brady dropped back 50 times forcing them to have to bull rush all game. The first time in the history of the SB that any QB has thrown 50 passes and won. Like Dilfer said, it was a drop the mic performance from Brady in that fourth. And THAT was way more important to his legacy than football air pressure.  4 SBs = 4 GW drives. That is money.

[Shane Bond]

Hogwash. I did not see any of them limping around or favoring their shoulders or knee ALL game like they did vs GB. They were playing lights out for the first three quarters even without Lane in there as Pats had all of 14 points and they had gotten two picks as well. Then in the fourth quarter they were running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to cover Gronk and Vereen and Edelman. Brady systemically took them apart on those two championship drives which is why Sherman all of people came over to him at then end to shake his hand when he knelt down. That IS how impressive he was. "You mad bro" even acknowledged his performance. Now if you want to say they were gassed. Ok. But that was because Brady dropped back 50 times forcing them to have to bull rush all game. The first time in the history of the SB that any QB has thrown 50 passes and won. Like Dilfer said, it was a drop the mic performance from Brady in that fourth. And THAT was way more important to his legacy than football air pressure. 4 SBs = 4 GW drives. That is money.

Now this is where you use LOL

[southwest1]

It's like we have turned the world against Brady and the Pats. Can we help it if we agree with the contingency , however large it might be , that the circumstantial evidence points Brady knowing the ball boys (men) did something to the balls. We and the rest of that contingency did not frame anyone . What I find interesting about this particular thread is the media seemed to be not at all interested in this new "report." I guess that's our fault too.

This is what astounds me DW49: If I agree to reserve my final judgment on deflate gate until after I hear Brady address his appeal, can some Patriots fans at least consider that Tommy could have handled the situation better in hindsight now if given the opportunity to change a few statements? It's amazing to me how no Foxboro fan even proaches the subject of Brady or if they do it's how wonderful he is, dreamy he is, & the embodiment of the perfect human being. Hero worship on steroids.

 

Defending your QB is noble yes, but so is asking what could Tommy have done differently to avoid this land mine that he himself created?  

[dynasty13]

This is what astounds me DW49: If I agree to reserve my final judgment on deflate gate until after I hear Brady address his appeal, can some Patriots fans at least consider that Tommy could have handled the situation better in hindsight now if given the opportunity to change a few statements? It's amazing to me how no Foxboro fan even proaches the subject of Brady or if they do it's how wonderful he is, dreamy he is, & the embodiment of the perfect human being. Hero worship on steroids.

 

Defending your QB is noble yes, but so is asking what could Tommy have done differently to avoid this land mine that he himself created?  

 

I'm just not sure what you would have wanted him to do differently SW. The day before he first spoke about it, ESPN wrongly reported that 11 of 12 of their balls were 2 lbs under what is allowable...that essentially sealed his fate before he even said a word. Then he held his press conference and denied any involvement. He literally hasn't said anything about it since, yet many of you are trying to say he dug himself this deep hole that he can't get out of. 

 

The second ESPN created the narrative that they were guilty and everyone latched onto it, the team and he were forced to go on the defensive...and he's been silent about it ever since while he waits for his opportunity to present his case.

[dynasty13]

Honest question here Shane. I have been responding to people all day in this thread. When you contribute, you become one of those people I respond to...so how is that 'stalking' you? I only ask because you make it a point to call me that every single time I respond to you and it's a little odd.

 

No response, Shane? Weird...didn't see that one coming.

 

You just want to call me a stalker every time I respond to you and then you won't even explain yourself when asked? Sweet dude...but please, continue talking about how everyone else runs and hides... ... ... ...

 

feel free to pm me if you want instead.

[dw49]

Hogwash. I did not see any of them limping around or favoring their shoulders or knee ALL game like they did vs GB. They were playing lights out for the first three quarters even without Lane in there as Pats had all of 14 points and they had gotten two picks as well. Then in the fourth quarter they were running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to cover Gronk and Vereen and Edelman. Brady systemically took them apart on those two championship drives which is why Sherman all of people came over to him at then end to shake his hand when he knelt down. That IS how impressive he was. "You mad bro" even acknowledged his performance. Now if you want to say they were gassed. Ok. But that was because Brady dropped back 50 times forcing them to have to bull rush all game. The first time in the history of the SB that any QB has thrown 50 passes and won. Like Dilfer said, it was a drop the mic performance from Brady in that fourth. And THAT was way more important to his legacy than football air pressure.  4 SBs = 4 GW drives. That is money.

 

Hogwash... (LOL) Lane was out . Avril was out and Chancellor had a torn ligament in his knee. I acknowledged the fact that NE played great. They lost Lane and Avril in addition to Chancellor playing very hurt. I didn't mention the ijusries to Sherman and Tomas because I don't think they were significant. Just because Sherman shook someones hand does not mean they didn't have injuries . But OK.. they didn't

[amfootball]

Hogwash... (LOL) Lane was out . Avril was out and Chancellor had a torn ligament in his knee. I acknowledged the fact that NE played great. They lost Lane and Avril in addition to Chancellor playing very hurt. I didn't mention the ijusries to Sherman and Tomas because I don't think they were significant. Just because Sherman shook someones hand does not mean they didn't have injuries . But OK.. they didn't

I am not saying they did not have injuries but I did not see them effect the game to the degree that some suggest. Remember our center Stork was playing on one knee as he missed the AFCCG and we also were missing our number one RB in Ridley and number one LB in Mayo.  And in terms of Seattle getting injured during the game, it was Edelman that knocked Lane out with a brutal hit after the pick and Avril was hurt when he bum rushed our Olineman and concussed himself. For all the talk about how Seattle was the rough riding team, especially their defense, it was the NE offense who was much more physical vs them and it was a big key to the win. That and Brady shredding them in the fourth. Like I said his fourth quarter did more for his legacy than this ball air pressure unproven report.

[ruksak]

I am with you ... on to 2015!  We gotta see if this Jimmy is the heir apparent or not. And most importantly we got a banner to raise.

Be proud of it. As a fan you don't deserve credit for the scandal. Your team IS fairly awesome, and has been for a long time, despite some missteps along the way. I know people bust your butt here, however.....it is hostile territory, and we are a bunch of football nuts. 

[Cynjin]

aaaaaand here we go again.

 

DO ANY OF YOU GUYS READ??? It's simply stunning how some of you can follow this topic and respond to a person repeatedly but somehow you managed to miss every single thing that person already said.

 

 

Thanks for another laugh, and the fact that BM liked this post made it that much better.  The idea that the irony of you post is most likely lost on you and BM is just tremendous. 

[dw49]

I am not saying they did not have injuries but I did not see them effect the game to the degree that some suggest. Remember our center Stork was playing on one knee as he missed the AFCCG and we also were missing our number one RB in Ridley and number one LB in Mayo.  And in terms of Seattle getting injured during the game, it was Edelman that knocked Lane out with a brutal hit after the pick and Avril was hurt when he bum rushed our Olineman and concussed himself. For all the talk about how Seattle was the rough riding team, especially their defense, it was the NE offense who was much more physical vs them and it was a big key to the win. That and Brady shredding them in the fourth. Like I said his fourth quarter did more for his legacy than this ball air pressure unproven report.

 

 

Whats the difference how Lane and Avril were hurt ? Fact remains that the Seattle defense was not at anywhere near full strength when Brady shredded them. To say that it was and dance around is silly. Brady was great in those last two drives

[southwest1]

I'm just not sure what you would have wanted him to do differently SW. The day before he first spoke about it, ESPN wrongly reported that 11 of 12 of their balls were 2 lbs under what is allowable...that essentially sealed his fate before he even said a word. Then he held his press conference and denied any involvement. He literally hasn't said anything about it since, yet many of you are trying to say he dug himself this deep hole that he can't get out of. 

 

The second ESPN created the narrative that they were guilty and everyone latched onto it, the team and he were forced to go on the defensive...and he's been silent about it ever since while he waits for his opportunity to present his case.

I appreciate your thoughtful response D13 thank you. Yes, I remember Chris Mortensen on ESPN talking about 11 of 12 NE footballs were under inflated & initially, if I'm being honest, when I heard that I did say uh oh, this revelation if true doesn't look good for NE at the moment. However, I SW1, can compartmentalize & shut the outside world out & basically go Okay Tommy, your talking 1 on 1 to me me now thru my TV give me the lay of the land as you see it. Then, the "are you a cheater" line came up & Brady fumbled the ball. Wait? What? I had to rewind my DVR just to see if I heard that right. Crap, he did say what I thought he said. Get ahead of this now ask for the question to be repeated. He didn't. Jesus man, you just lied to me on Natl. TV & I like you man. This is Ryan Braun of the Milwaukee Brewers all over again. Darn it. Sigh...

 

More & more time passes & Brady says nothing & then when he flies out to that university by helicopter to speak the night the Wells Report broke he laughs & asks the friendly crowd "I don't know. What do you think?" & laughs. Is cheating funny to you Brady? Having your integrity questioned is a serious allegation man. Why not just say I haven't read the report yet, I will respond to it soon with a 2nd press conference, & where's camera 1? I can promise you Patriots fans I am not a cheater or a person who doesn't follow the rules of fair play. My name & my reputation mean everything to me & I'm an honorable man of class & integrity. If I did something wrong or made a mistake, I will assume full responsibility for misinterpreting a rule. 

 

Silence is dangerous because anybody else can fill that vacuum & the longer the silence from the allegedly accused the quicker the masses make up their own mind which harms Brady severely D13. 

 

I will still watch Tom Brady this year, I don't like when my Colts lose to NE but you're a quality elite squad so I will learn to tolerate it, & I wanna win against your club fair & square at full strength on both teams. If we lose again to NE, I will congratulate you. That's how I roll. 

[dw49]

This is what astounds me DW49: If I agree to reserve my final judgment on deflate gate until after I hear Brady address his appeal, can some Patriots fans at least consider that Tommy could have handled the situation better in hindsight now if given the opportunity to change a few statements? It's amazing to me how no Foxboro fan even proaches the subject of Brady or if they do it's how wonderful he is, dreamy he is, & the embodiment of the perfect human being. Hero worship on steroids.

 

Defending your QB is noble yes, but so is asking what could Tommy have done differently to avoid this land mine that he himself created?  

 

 

I thought you were reasonable in your post. But I'm not sure what he should have or could have done differently. I do think he's guilty to some degree but I don't know what he actually instructed them to do with the balls.