Would You Stop Following The Colts If They Threw Week 17 Vs The Jaguars?

[Smitto]

If that was to happen i would hope for the commish to come down hard on the colts, just to show other teams whats in stored if they tried something like that.

[braveheartcolt]

We cheated in 2009, yet no one on here quit being a fan, so I don't believe what those say about quitting. It's very easy to say you would stop being a fan on a message board than actually doing it.

And please don't pull the 'resting for the PO's is fine' diatribe. The fans felt cheated, the players felt cheated, other teams in the PO hunt not called the Jets felt cheated, and the League felt cheated.

Selectively picking your definition of cheating to back your stance on this #1 pick debate is becoming quite funny.

We'll all still be Colts fans next year, no matter what happens on New Years Day.

[Peytongirl]

I was upset, but I didn't feel cheated. But isn't it time to let this go and move on?

It is a new year coming, time to turn the page. Chillax, look forward, be happy and hopeful.

[braveheartcolt]

I was upset, but I didn't feel cheated. But isn't it time to let this go and move on?

It is a new year coming, time to turn the page. Chillax, look forward, be happy and hopeful.

Sorry PG, but it's linked to the current debate about the Jags game, and no one has managed to explain why it was ok to 'cheat' (or manage the roster tactically) in 2009, but not now.

I'm really chilled, and have no malice in my responses. This is surely a forum to have a debate with fellow fans? Sport is a matter of opinions, and I enjoy wrestling with opposing views!

[shecolt]

Sorry PG, but it's linked to the current debate about the Jags game, and no one has managed to explain why it was ok to 'cheat' (or manage the roster tactically) in 2009, but not now.

I'm really chilled, and have no malice in my responses. This is surely a forum to have a debate with fellow fans? Sport is a matter of opinions, and I enjoy wrestling with opposing views!

I'll give it a shot by telling you my thoughts. You don't have to agree. It is just merely how I feel.

When the Colts pulled the starters, did some fans feel cheated, players feel cheated, other teams not named the Jets feel cheated, and the NFL at large feel cheated? The answer is yes.

But, I always felt that decision was made in what was thought to be in the best interests of that team that year. In other words, to keep the team as healthy as possible for a SB run. I am not saying it was OK, but I can live with that and move on.

If the Colts were to throw the game versus the Jags, it would be done in the best interests of next year's team. To me, it would be like telling the current players: You guys sucked this year. You don't deserve another win. We're going to lose this game and look to the future. That is something I would have a very hard time living with and moving on.

[chad72]

Sorry PG, but it's linked to the current debate about the Jags game, and no one has managed to explain why it was ok to 'cheat' (or manage the roster tactically) in 2009, but not now.

I'm really chilled, and have no malice in my responses. This is surely a forum to have a debate with fellow fans? Sport is a matter of opinions, and I enjoy wrestling with opposing views!

It was a case of Polian knowing how lousy his backups were, as we are finding out for an entire season without Peyton. We found that out in bits and pieces when Clark and Collie went down last year plus the gazillion injuries we had last year. Polian knew his roster well and we did not have nearly the D-line depth we have now. We had Moala as a rookie, AJ and Muir to stop the run. Yeah, we had Foster, Dawson and Brock but none of them were much to sneeze about. AJ and Muir had a very good season that year. Plus, for a team that has seasonally had so many DB injuries, we had Powers go down before the SB, and Hayden go out during the Saints SB as well. Not to mention Freeney's case as well.

Yes, I was one of those who was terribly ticked. I was even banned for a couple of days on the previous forum because of some comments I made .

But objectively looking at it now in hindsight, resting the starters to prevent injuries for the playoffs is different from resting the starters to play what they know is ONLY 1 GAME to look forward to. That is why it is a case of apples and oranges to me. What I will agree is that the timing of the resting was terrible. They should have rested the starters right after the half of the Jets game. It was like a teaser, get their adrenaline going, letting them play a couple of possessions and then put a sorry QB Painter in.

We don't have any games to look forward to in the playoffs to preserve anyone's health, that is why resting folks for the Jags game does not make sense.

[ruksak]

We cheated in 2009, yet no one on here quit being a fan, so I don't believe what those say about quitting. It's very easy to say you would stop being a fan on a message board than actually doing it.

And please don't pull the 'resting for the PO's is fine' diatribe. The fans felt cheated, the players felt cheated, other teams in the PO hunt not called the Jets felt cheated, and the League felt cheated.

Selectively picking your definition of cheating to back your stance on this #1 pick debate is becoming quite funny.

We'll all still be Colts fans next year, no matter what happens on New Years Day.

How was that "cheating"?

I wanted them to win, but not at the expense of a SB run. This was the thought process involved in the decision to abstain from exposing our core to injury at the dawn of the post-season. If we had a decent back-up QB for those last two games, we'd have won. I wasn't so much disappointed in pulling the starters, I was upset about the fact that our second unit played so poorly.

I admit it is an interesting discussion, comparing the two events, as there are similarities. Its a dynamic discussion and capable of really tearing a fan in two.

[braveheartcolt]

How was that "cheating"?

I wanted them to win, but not at the expense of a SB run. This was the thought process involved in the decision to abstain from exposing our core to injury at the dawn of the post-season. If we had a decent back-up QB for those last two games, we'd have won. I wasn't so much disappointed in pulling the starters, I was upset about the fact that our second unit played so poorly.

I admit it is an interesting discussion, comparing the two events, as there are similarities. Its a dynamic discussion and capable of really tearing a fan in two.

It's only cheating in the context of this thread, where people are saying that only going all out for a win next week is acceptable, anything else is cheating. I've never said the players should tank. I've never said I would root for us to lose (during the game). I'm just 'hoping' we lose as I feel it will help us in the long run, no matter what we do with the draft picks.

If we can try NOT TO WIN, which we did in 2009, irrespective of the reason (and as many teams have done before), then why would it be unacceptable to play all our second / third stringers next week? What is the difference? Surely a team has the right to play anybody from their 53 man roster? Saying it it is OK to do it because it's for the benefit of the current season is a weak argument. Surely doing it for the long term good of the team is as justifiable as doing it to win the Super Bowl? Who holds the cards which says it is ok for one and not the other? I cannot see any real difference.

What if Bethea smashes his knee next week, and misses next season?

So to quit on the team if we played a so called weakened team next week seems contradictory to what has happened before. In fact, it could be an even better decision than the 2009 resting, as that didn't get us what it was intended to do (help us win the SB), and getting the no.1 pick next year may (and I do stress MAY) provide the squad to go one better in the next few years.

I also don't have a problem with people who see it the other way.......

[ruksak]

It's only cheating in the context of this thread, where people are saying that only going all out for a win next week is acceptable, anything else is cheating. I've never said the players should tank. I've never said I would root for us to lose (during the game). I'm just 'hoping' we lose as I feel it will help us in the long run, no matter what we do with the draft picks.

If we can try NOT TO WIN, which we did in 2009, irrespective of the reason (and as many teams have done before), then why would it be unacceptable to play all our second / third stringers next week? What is the difference? Surely a team has the right to play anybody from their 53 man roster? Saying it it is OK to do it because it's for the benefit of the current season is a weak argument. Surely doing it for the long term good of the team is as justifiable as doing it to win the Super Bowl? Who holds the cards which says it is ok for one and not the other? I cannot see any real difference.

What if Bethea smashes his knee next week, and misses next season?

So to quit on the team if we played a so called weakened team next week seems contradictory to what has happened before. In fact, it could be an even better decision than the 2009 resting, as that didn't get us what it was intended to do (help us win the SB), and getting the no.1 pick next year may (and I do stress MAY) provide the squad to go one better in the next few years.

I also don't have a problem with people who see it the other way.......

I mentioned either in this thread or a related one, that the only way to approach losing this game on purpose that would fall within the rules would be to start 2nd/3rd teamers for evaluation/health reasons.

The problem with this is ethics. There is no ethical reasoning to do so and the reasoning for actually "resting" starters would be transparent....i.e. I think everybody knows darn good and well what the motive would be, which is viewed as unethical in the realm of sport.

in 2009, though it may be seen as semantics, we weren't "trying not to win", as you suggested. We were trying to win while preserving our best players for a higher purpose, that being getting to and winning the SB. To manipulate the roster in this case (the upcoming week 17 game) there is no higher purpose that could be viewed as acceptable by the NFL, the paying fans or the sponsors for the event. We would literally be trying not to win.

Yes, one of our pro-bowlers could get hurt to an extent that may affect our 2012 season. This is where we enter a grey area. If Caldwell took the stand and stated "We are going to be sitting our starters to prevent any catastrophic injury, as well as to evaluate our talent for the coming off-season"......boy I don't know. It would seem transparent as to the reasoning behind such a move and I think the NFL would step in real fast.

Would I stop following them if they did that? No, I would continue to support them. Any nefarious instruction to fumble, throw picks and drops passes....well yea, they can have my fan card.

[braveheartcolt]

I mentioned either in this thread or a related one, that the only way to approach losing this game on purpose that would fall within the rules would be to start 2nd/3rd teamers for evaluation/health reasons.

The problem with this is ethics. There is no ethical reasoning to do so and the reasoning for actually "resting" starters would be transparent....i.e. I think everybody knows darn good and well what the motive would be, which is viewed as unethical in the realm of sport.

in 2009, though it may be seen as semantics, we weren't "trying not to win", as you suggested. We were trying to win while preserving our best players for a higher purpose, that being getting to and winning the SB. To manipulate the roster in this case (the upcoming week 17 game) there is no higher purpose that could be viewed as acceptable by the NFL, the paying fans or the sponsors for the event. We would literally be trying not to win.

Yes, one of our pro-bowlers could get hurt to an extent that may affect our 2012 season. This is where we enter a grey area. If Caldwell took the stand and stated "We are going to be sitting our starters to prevent any catastrophic injury, as well as to evaluate our talent for the coming off-season"......boy I don't know. It would seem transparent as to the reasoning behind such a move and I think the NFL would step in real fast.

Would I stop following them if they did that? No, I would continue to support them. Any nefarious instruction to fumble, throw picks and drops passes....well yea, they can have my fan card.

Great post, and I agree with most of it. Putting Painter in for his real first snap of NFL play, on the 10 yard line (?) against that Defence was not trying to win.

Agree with you last paragraph. A few seasons ago my 'soccer' club had a player who feigned an injury and got an opponent sent off enraged me to the extent that I ended up rooting for the other side.

[SilentHill]

There are tons of discreat ways to blow games like calling TO for the opposing team when they are in long FG range to give them another shot down the field.

[FireJimCaldwell]

There are tons of discreat ways to blow games like calling TO for the opposing team when they are in long FG range to give them another shot down the field.

Or a team could seem content with running out the clock, but low & behold the opposing coach calls a time out, which gives the other coach time to put together a few plays to get into long fg range..

I think i've seen that somewhere...

[SilentHill]

Or a team could seem content with running out the clock, but low & behold the opposing coach calls a time out, which gives the other coach time to put together a few plays to get into long fg range..

I think i've seen that somewhere...

Yea something like that, I know were talkiing about the same incident but my memory is fuzzy. lol

[FireJimCaldwell]

Yea something like that, I know were talkiing about the same incident but my memory is fuzzy. lol

No.. Two different examples. Unfortunately my memory is not fuzzy

[oldunclemark]

Hypothetical Question here, (with a poll)

Would you stop following the Colts if it looked like they threw the game next Sunday at JAX? I'm talking like obviously thrown balls to defenders and intentional looking fumbles and such.

I know people will come in here and say they wouldn't ever do it so it's not worth discussing, but like I said this is HYPOTHETICAL so do your best to assume the unthinkable.

Yes........if they threw the game...it would be like trying to cheer for Penn State football..

[JoKeR]

There no way to get players to throw a game. Coaches can't just throw in PS players to give the team the best chance to lose, Goodell already warned against it.

[braveheartcolt]

There no way to get players to throw a game. Coaches can't just throw in PS players to give the team the best chance to lose, Goodell already warned against it.

So why hasn't the Commish banned us then, for playing Painter as an alleged NFL QB?

[No 1 Manning Fan]

I wouldn't stop being a fan, but it would seriously irritate me. I really want the #1 pick so that they can pick whomever they want or trade it for whomever they want, but I feel that you always play to win. Take pride in your team, take pride in your profession, and take pride in yourself and play to the best of your ability. That is the spirit of sports.

[ruksak]

So why hasn't the Commish banned us then, for playing Painter as an alleged NFL QB?

oh man thats harsh.......lol

[MichianaColts]

You people in here that say your going to drop the Colts if we lose to the Jags ... you need to think about the future of our Organization and not about a meaningless win. now Granted this win isn't going to hurt as much as the win last week if Minnesota didn't beat Washington. IF Minnesota lost there is no doubt in my mind that they would have sold that #1 pick to a team that needs a QB for their Franchise as much as we do.. oh yes it's true it's darn True!!! you People forget this is the Indianapolis Colts and not the Indianapolis Mannings!!!! Therefor if Peyton Manning must go than he must go.. IF he stays than more Power to us!!! but what happens if he takes that big hit next season? huh? back to the way things our looking this year?? ya okay! no >>> that!!! We need a plan B cause we sure an the heck never had one in place for this year. OH darn we don't have Peyton Manning.. Lets go Sign an 18 year Vet. Kerry Collins oh heck Kerry Collins doesn't want to PLAY for us. lets put in Curtis Painter the same guy that blew the Prefect Season in '09!! oh well that was a Mistake.. Lets put in Dan Orvolsky the same guy that played for the Lions when they went 0-16!! (by the way Detroit congrats) and thanks for proven how Important that #1 pick can be!!! do you people forget that the Great Peyton Manning went 3-13 in his Rookie Season? ya I think you guys do!!.

Post Edited per board rules:

members should be afforded the same respect as one another. Threads with the intention to "call out" another member or question their "fanhood" are not allowed.

Edited by Coltssouth

[SilentHill]

You people in here that say your going to drop the Colts if we lose to the Jags our some foolish bandwagon fair weather Fans... you people need to think about the future of our Organization and not about a meaningless win. now Granted this win isn't going to hurt as much as the win last week if Minnesota didn't beat Washington. IF Minnesota lost there is no doubt in my mind that they would have sold that #1 pick to a team that needs a QB for their Franchise as much as we do.. oh yes it's true it's darn True!!! you People forget this is the Indianapolis Colts and not the Indianapolis Mannings!!!! Therefor if Peyton Manning must go than he must go.. IF he stays than more Power to us!!! but what happens if he takes that big hit next season? huh? back to the way things our looking this year?? ya okay! no >>> that!!! We need a plan B cause we sure an the heck never had one in place for this year. OH darn we don't have Peyton Manning.. Lets go Sign an 18 year Vet. Kerry Collins oh heck Kerry Collins doesn't want to PLAY for us. lets put in Curtis Painter the same guy that blew the Prefect Season in '09!! oh well that was a Mistake.. Lets put in Dan Orvolsky the same guy that played for the Lions when they went 0-16!! (by the way Detroit congrats) and thanks for proven how Important that #1 pick can be!!! do you people forget that the Great Peyton Manning went 3-13 in his Rookie Season? ya I think you guys do!!... so if you don't support the Colts when they lose than get the heck off my TEAM!!!! BOUNCE. BOUNCE. BOUNCE!!! AND DON'T EVER COME BACK.. GO BE A PATTY * FAN!!!!

What are you talking about. We're talking about intentionally throwing the game.

[MichianaColts]

What are you talking about. We're talking about intentionally throwing the game.

and I am fine for that.. if that is what needs to be done to continue or winning ways INTO THE FUTURE than so be it. I would rather do that than go back to the way things were before the Great All Mighty Peyton Manning came to town.. C.O.L.T.S.. NO THANK YOU NOT EVER AGAIN!!! AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS THAN YOU PROVE MY POINT !!

[Charles Wallace]

Colts has always been my team and always will be. Yes I know we have alot of band wagon jumpers out there, but name a team that could have done as bad as we have and tell me they would not do the same thing if need to be. This season if over we got to do what it takes to improve next year. I dont really know the colts would do that or not but still its part of the game. I say forget this year and work on the next.

[oldunclemark]

and I am fine for that.. if that is what needs to be done to continue or winning ways INTO THE FUTURE than so be it. I would rather do that than go back to the way things were before the Great All Mighty Peyton Manning came to town.. C.O.L.T.S.. NO THANK YOU NOT EVER AGAIN!!! AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS THAN YOU PROVE MY POINT !!

You understand that we get the No.2 pick in the draft..EVEN IF WE WIN SUNDAY? RIGHT?

[MichianaColts]

You understand that we get the No.2 pick in the draft..EVEN IF WE WIN SUNDAY? RIGHT?

Yes I understand that which means that we have to rely on St. Louis to do what we all hope they do and select either Justin Blackmon or Alshon Jeffery and not go the route that even the most casual fan knows the route that Minnesota would have went. They NEED players every where besides the QB position. (Christian Ponder) so they would have traded that pick to the highest bidder. and that bidder would have sold there soul to the devil for that pick.

[ruksak]

You people in here that say your going to drop the Colts if we lose to the Jags ... you need to think about the future of our Organization and not about a meaningless win.

Who said that?

[ruksak]

Colts has always been my team and always will be. Yes I know we have alot of band wagon jumpers out there, but name a team that could have done as bad as we have and tell me they would not do the same thing if need to be. This season if over we got to do what it takes to improve next year. I dont really know the colts would do that or not but still its part of the game. I say forget this year and work on the next.

Teams don't throw games, ever.

Teams that secure 1st round byes have EARNED the right to rest.

[MichianaColts]

Colts has always been my team and always will be. Yes I know we have alot of band wagon jumpers out there, but name a team that could have done as bad as we have and tell me they would not do the same thing if need to be. This season if over we got to do what it takes to improve next year. I dont really know the colts would do that or not but still its part of the game. I say forget this year and work on the next.

EXACTLY!!!!!! AND THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!!!!

[MichianaColts]

Who said that?

people have said if the Colts Lose purposely they well drop the team.. WIN/LOSE NO MATTER HOW IT IS DONE IF YOUR A TRUE BLUE IT DOESN'T MATTER YOUR ALWAYS GOING TO SUPPORT!!! CAUSE IT WAS THE FOR THE GREATER GOOD OF THE TEAM FOR THE FUTURE OF THE TEAM!!!

[ruksak]

people have said if the Colts Lose purposely they well drop the team.. WIN/LOSE NO MATTER HOW IT IS DONE IF YOUR A TRUE BLUE IT DOESN'T MATTER YOUR ALWAYS GOING TO SUPPORT!!! CAUSE IT WAS THE FOR THE GREATER GOOD OF THE TEAM FOR THE FUTURE OF THE TEAM!!!

Oh...at first you said people that would drop if they just lost....

Yea, I don't follow teams that cheat. Maybe you have no scruples, but I do. It's called "Integrity", get you some.

[NM_Colts]

Interestingly, at this point in time the poll responses are 50/50.

[ruksak]

Interestingly, at this point in time the poll responses are 50/50.

It is interesting. It is also against the rules to throw games. Knowingly breaking the rules for "the greater good" is called cheating. It saddens me that so many fans are OK with this.

[Coltssouth]

I would not quit watching and rooting for them, but my image of them would be tarnished that they did not live up to what I thought them to be, and I would definately be calling for the whole front office to be fired.

This is not a decision that would be made by the players, and I root for the players and the team, but I would not ever want to see it happen again and if proven I hope those responsible would get fired and fined to the highest extent possible.

I'm don't think anyone is ok with it Ruksak as I posted in my previous thread ^. I did vote no I would not stop following them but that in no way means I would approve of it.

I think that's the general feeling I'm getting here.

[justnhlsmok]

Will I still be a Colts fan? Absolutely YES!!!

Will I follow them after the game? Not so much until I can see who we are drafting.

As soon as this game is over, I'm in PACERS mode! (Regardless if a "tank job" happens...)

[Coltssouth]

But then again perhaps I'm just wrong. ^

That's just why I voted like I did.

[BIGugly]

Well, we certainly don't want to tank and be accused of cheating, buut...

We need one more really good look at Painter, Hughes, Pollack, Lefege at DB, and others. How else we gonna decide about some of our players if we don't let them start and play in a meaningful, division game instead of just preseason or non division games?

C'mon, Man...

We GOTTA re-evaluated before the next draft !

I'm just sayin'...

[ruksak]

I'm don't think anyone is ok with it Ruksak as I posted in my previous thread ^. I did vote no I would not stop following them but that in no way means I would approve of it.

I think that's the general feeling I'm getting here.

I hear what your saying, and its real easy for me to say I'd walk. The reality is it would tear my heart out. But I have a real issue with messin with the integrity of the game.

I reckon many Pats fans feel the same way I do. Last I checked, their fan base didn't exactly jump ship when they got caught cheating in a very dubious and disgusting manner that would far exceed just sitting down for a better draft position.

[Dan]

Well, we certainly don't want to tank and be accused of cheating, buut...

We need one more really good look at Painter, Hughes, Pollack, Lefege at DB, and others. How else we gonna decide about some of our players if we don't let them start and play in a meaningful, division game instead of just preseason or non division games?

C'mon, Man...

We GOTTA re-evaluated before the next draft !

I'm just sayin'...

Addai used to play QB, he might be a valuable backup? Can evaluate him vs Jags?

[MAC]

I'm don't think anyone is ok with it Ruksak as I posted in my previous thread ^. I did vote no I would not stop following them but that in no way means I would approve of it.

I think that's the general feeling I'm getting here.

I think that there is a problem with this poll. Did you vote "no"? Because the question was:

Would you still be a Colts fan if they threw the game at Jax next Sunday?

The problem is that the thread title IS:

Would You Stop Following The Colts If They Threw Week 17 Vs The Jaguars?

Which is the reciprocal. I voted no by accident, then went back and changed my answer.

In addition, many on hear are taking a "yes" vote to mean that someone is OK with the team cheating. It's a little bit more complicated than that. I want the Colts to beat the Jaguars and will be rooting enthusiastically. I don't want them to throw the game (and don't think for a second that anyone associated with the organization is even contemplating such an absurd suggestion).

None of that changes the fact that regardless of what they do Sunday, I'll still be a Colts fan. I've been one for more than 40 years through some pretty bizarre and unpleasant circumstances. Dropping them cold because of this is simply not a remote possibility.

[Coltssouth]

I don't know Mac but I will say that it would break my heart. It is something I would have to deal with if it ever happened but I really have a problem rooting for teams I consider "dirty".

I can't say no I won't root for them, but I will say I really hope I never have to make that decision, and if I do I want to see someone held accountable for it.

The integrity of the game is very important to me.