Why not Trade?

[evilleseniorfan]

The Cardinal's only experienced TE just retired unexpectedly.  They need an experienced TE to compete in the West, but have a new OT they drafted in the 1st round last week.  We have two good TE's and more WR's than we have footballs, but could sure use a young RT.  Why not make the call?   

[ColtsLegacy]

[bananabucket]

the Cardinals aren't going to trade their first round pick from less than a week ago. 

[12isthenew18]

because trading them hurts the locker room they wanna fix

[Hoosiernsavga]

I love our TE's but no way the Cardinals would trade there first rd pick for either or even both really. LOL

[evilleseniorfan]

How do you know the Cardinals wouldn't welcome the opportunity?

[MrNLM]

in all honesty... there is nobody on the Cardinal's offensive side of the ball i want. Not one within reason. Iupati is off limits for sure and Humphries ain't going anywhere.

[zibby43]

We can't deal either Allen or Fleener.  Allen is a guy that has missed some time.  When he's out, Fleener/Doyle are invaluable.

 

Furthermore, Allen and Fleener have very different skill sets.  Fleener is a do-it-all TE.  He can block.  He can catch.  He can have a field day with opposing LBs.

 

Fleener has become a better blocker.  He was forced to develop that skill whenever Allen missed time.  Despite his improvement, he is not on Allen's level as a blocker and he likely never will be. 

 

Fleener's best attribute is that he can stretch the field at the TE position.  He's Jimmy Graham-like in the sense that he is a matchup nightmare.  Every year, Fleener has gotten better and better.  Dude works hard and has been durable (knock on wood).

 

To the WRs . . .

 

Our proven WRs consist of: Hilton, Moncrief (to an extent; he had a rookie campaign that makes me optimistic about him), and Johnson.

 

Dorsett is very likely to become an instant contributor.  Eventually, he will be the Colts' starting slot WR.  The Colts have never had a slot weapon as talented as Dorsett.  Think Brandon Stokley with Olympian track star speed.

 

Carter?  Who knows what we will get out of him.  Nicks is gone.  Whalen is a borderline guy. 

 

Our WR corps looks stacked on paper but there are always minor injuries.  Furthermore, we don't know if Johnson is going to automatically return to his pre-2014 form. 

 

This year, I see Johnson, Moncrief, and Hilton getting the vast majority of snaps in 3 WR formations.  However, I also see Dorsett getting a lot of meaningful snaps.

 

Carter is now going to be the odd man out.  He'll have to fight for his snaps.  And considering his low risk contract, that's not a bad thing.

 

A lot of people think we were stacked at WR before Dorsett.  I didn't see it that way.  We had a strong WR corps before drafting Dorsett but now that the Colts have him, they remind me of 2013/2014 Denver.  With Dorsett, our WR corps is now ELITE.

 

My 2 cents.

 

PS - Our offensive line was damn good in the playoff games against Cincy and Denver.  We absolutely shredded 2 of the better defenses in the AFC (Denver's defense was arguably the best in the AFC).

 

With LT (AC), LG (Mewhort), C (Holmes), RG (Reitz/TH), and RT (Gosder?  Someone else?) locked down, I think our OL problems may be coming to an end IF . . . and this is a BIG IF . . . everyone can stay healthy.

[COLTS449]

Why cant we just trade them Jack Doyle for Calais Campbell? Seems fair right? But seriously bro they're aren't going to trade their 1st round pick 1 week later.

[COLTS449]

They could probably find a trade for a decent TE by offering up a 3rd or 4th rounder. Maybe less than that. There's a few teams with multiple TE's who can all get it done.

[horseshoeblue22]

They could be interested on Fleener, but even then...would probably only give Jonathan Cooper in a trade. No thanks.

[evilleseniorfan]

Good response.  Thanks.

[bananabucket]

We can't deal either Allen or Fleener.  Allen is a guy that has missed some time.  When he's out, Fleener/Doyle are invaluable.

 

Furthermore, Allen and Fleener have very different skill sets.  Fleener is a do-it-all TE.  He can block.  He can catch.  He can have a field day with opposing LBs.

 

Fleener has become a better blocker.  He was forced to develop that skill whenever Allen missed time.  Despite his improvement, he is not on Allen's level as a blocker and he likely never will be. 

 

Fleener's best attribute is that he can stretch the field at the TE position.  He's Jimmy Graham-like in the sense that he is a matchup nightmare.  Every year, Fleener has gotten better and better.  Dude works hard and has been durable (knock on wood).

 

 

 

 

you really overrate Fleener.  he is not a good blocker and he isn't even CLOSE to Jimmy Graham as a receiver. 

[zibby43]

you really overrate Fleener.  he is not a good blocker and he isn't even CLOSE to Jimmy Graham as a receiver. 

 

EDIT:

 

In this line: "Fleener is a do-it-all TE.  He can block.  He can catch.  He can have a field day with opposing LBs" . . . I meant to say Allen is a do-it-all TE.

 

Fleener is more of a specialty TE.  Allen is the better all-rounder,

 

END EDIT.

 

First of all, I said he has gotten better as a blocker.  I also said that he wasn't on Allen's level as a blocker (and that he would likely never be on that level). 

 

Furthermore, nowhere did I compare him to Jimmy Graham in terms of overall skill level.

 

Like Graham, he is often split out wide to stretch the field/create mismatches.  They both are used in similar ways. 

 

PS - Fleener had 774 yds REC last year.  He also had 8 TDs.  His 15.2 yd AVG was higher than Graham's. 

 

Graham had 889 yds REC last year.  He had 10 TDs.  He also had 30 more targets. 

 

So I think you drastically underrate Fleener.

[Bravo]

There is a lot of chemistry and team moral involved.... Have to be careful with trades....

[ColtsLegacy]

First of all, I said he has gotten better as a blocker.  I also said that he wasn't on Allen's level as a blocker (and that he would likely never be on that level). 

 

Furthermore, nowhere did I compare him to Jimmy Graham in terms of overall skill level.

 

Like Graham, he is often split out wide to stretch the field/create mismatches.  They both are used in similar ways. 

 

No offense but if you're going to take issue with my post, please try to read it and understand it better before responding. 

 

Please don't put words in my mouth either.

 

PS - Fleener had 774 yds REC last year.  He also had 8 TDs.  His 15.2 yd AVG was higher than Graham's. 

 

Graham had 889 yds REC last year.  He had 10 TDs.  He also had 30 more targets. 

 

So I think you drastically underrate Fleener.

 

I think this line confused him, "Fleener is a do-it-all TE.  He can block.  He can catch.  He can have a field day with opposing LBs." I think/hope you meant Allen, not Fleener.

[zibby43]

I think this line confused him, "Fleener is a do-it-all TE.  He can block.  He can catch.  He can have a field day with opposing LBs." I think/hope you meant Allen, not Fleener.

 

Yes I absolutely meant Allen there.

 

Thanks for catching that.  Editing now.

 

To banabucket, if that is the line you were responding to, I apologize for creating confusion.

[Ja'Crispy]

I have nothing to add. This is just one of my all time favorite gifs.

[Patagonia Chris]

How do you know the Cardinals wouldn't welcome the opportunity?

 

Do you even follow the NFL? Tell me one time something like this has happened. Maybe Elway? Completely different circumstances though.

[The Shrink]

Why don't I get this?

[evilleseniorfan]

When was the last time you productively participated in a discussion?

[BrentMc11]

Why don't I get this?

Looks like "Big Baby" is licking his chops for the trade to occur  Good ole Big Baby Davis.  

[Lawrence Owen]

NO TE is worth a #1 pick,..not jimmy graham, not Gronkowski.  Seattle giving up their best center AND #1  pick was horrible trade for them IMO.  And a boon for NO.

Now that being said, an experienced veteran center is worth a trade for a good TE.  Or even a young talented inexperienced WR.  Those we have a plethora of. (even though many would not see trading a potential future star WR like say Carter for a center as very sexy).

[That Guy]

Could we get Jonathan Cooper and kick Mewhort to RT?  Would an Allen for Cooper trade interest anyone?  They have both been injured; Allen has produced better; Cooper has more promise and is more of a position of need.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

the Cardinals aren't going to trade their first round pick from less than a week ago. 

 

I agree, but at the same time this is Bruce Arians we're talking about. He knows firsthand how effective Fleener and Allen can be. If Grigson made the offer, I think Arians would at least consider it.

[Jason_]

I agree, but at the same time this is Bruce Arians we're talking about. He knows firsthand how effective Fleener and Allen can be. If Grigson made the offer, I think Arians would at least consider it.

 

no way they're trading the guy they just drafted in the first round.  I don't think they even could trade him until he's under contract, and that contract will be a 4 year contract with guaranteed money which Arizona would be on the hook for.

[ColtsLegacy]

NO TE is worth a #1 pick,..not jimmy graham, not Gronkowski. Seattle giving up their best center AND #1 pick was horrible trade for them IMO. And a boon for NO.

Now that being said, an experienced veteran center is worth a trade for a good TE. Or even a young talented inexperienced WR. Those we have a plethora of. (even though many would not see trading a potential future star WR like say Carter for a center as very sexy).

Gronkowski is 100% worth a first round pick. He's one of the best TEs to ever play the game and he's still just 25 (younger than Coby).

[Lawrence Owen]

Gronkowski is 100% worth a first round pick. He's one of the biggest mismatches in all of football. 9 out of 10 times a first round pick won't net you a player with half the value of Gronk.

You have your opinion, and I'll respect that, but think on this:

Gronk's style of play mirrors what Jeremy Shockey was.  

And yes Shockey was a beast,..for a time.  His style of play made him Injury ridden and limited his long term usage.  I fully expect the same outcome with Gronk. (we started to see the repercussions of that style of play on his health last year)

[ColtsLegacy]

Looks like "Big Baby" is licking his chops for the trade to occur Good ole Big Baby Davis.

, that's a good thought. I was actually using the GIF to try and relay that the trade is a silly idea.

[evilleseniorfan]

The reason I started this topic is because I think an unusual opportunity exists.  The Cardinals are a high expectation team and have just unexpectedly lost a key player at a key position (TE).  How do they maintain the "expectation?"  They go get a better TE. 

 

Under similar circumstances, other managements has often made emotional rather than logical decisions.  They have a choice - do they trade a draft choice who has never been part of the team and nobody knows, for a quality TE who can really get the fan base excited?   What would you do in their spot?

[ColtsLegacy]

You have your opinion, and I'll respect that, but think on this:

Gronk's style of play mirrors what Jeremy Shockey was.

And yes Shockey was a beast,..for a time. His style of play made him Injury ridden and limited his long term usage. I fully expect the same outcome with Gronk. (we started to see the repercussions of that style of play on his health last year)

Admittedly, injuries for Gronk are a worry, the worry, but his play is undoubtedly worthy of much more than a first round pick. I also don't see him falling off as abruptly as Shockey and as good as Shockey was, Gronk is still on another level. Even after the multiple injuries Gronk has had thus far, he has shown absolutely no signs of regression.

If my team could use a TE and the Pats were willing to trade Gronk for one first rounder, I'd do it in an instant, and, I feel quite confident, most NFL front offices would do the same.

I also think fans and, even, the NFL really overvalue the, err, value of a first round pick. But that's another conversation.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

No 

[BrentMc11]

, that's a good thought. I was actually using the GIF to try and relay that the trade is a silly idea.

I just laugh everytime I see Big Baby

[ColtsLegacy]

I just laugh everytime I see Big Baby

https://twitter.com/allamerican_2/status/594281008360333313

Landon Collins thinks he's bigger than Glen Davis.

[Jason_]

The reason I started this topic is because I think an unusual opportunity exists.  The Cardinals are a high expectation team and have just unexpectedly lost a key player at a key position (TE).  How do they maintain the "expectation?"  They go get a better TE. 

 

Under similar circumstances, other managements has often made emotional rather than logical decisions.  They have a choice - do they trade a draft choice who has never been part of the team and nobody knows, for a quality TE who can really get the fan base excited?   What would you do in their spot?

 

no, I don't think there's even the slightest chance they would do this.  Not with a draft pick that they've just acquired and still have to sign to a contract.  Once they sign him to a contract, they're on the hook for whatever bonuses or guaranteed money is spelled out in the contract. 

[Colts_Fan12]

Could we get Jonathan Cooper and kick Mewhort to RT? Would an Allen for Cooper trade interest anyone? They have both been injured; Allen has produced better; Cooper has more promise and is more of a position of need.

if we did trade a TE I would hope we aren't stupid enough to trade the complete all around one in Allen...

[BOTT]

Cardinals just drafted Troy Nicklas from ND last yr.

[Dark Superman]

I want to keep both of our tightends.

[jskinnz]

The reason I started this topic is because I think an unusual opportunity exists.  The Cardinals are a high expectation team and have just unexpectedly lost a key player at a key position (TE).  How do they maintain the "expectation?"  They go get a better TE. 

 

Under similar circumstances, other managements has often made emotional rather than logical decisions.  They have a choice - do they trade a draft choice who has never been part of the team and nobody knows, for a quality TE who can really get the fan base excited?   What would you do in their spot?

 

The premise of the thread is bad and this follow up is not much better.  Less than zero chance of this happening and the notion that Dwayne Allen would excite the fan base is really kind of funny.