Opinions on worst Colts draft decision

[dw49]

art schlichter was the worst draft pick made by the Indianapolis colts.  there were a few other busts, but art was taken first overall, and he set the team back several years.

 

none of the picks this year could come anywhere near being that bad for us.

 

schlichter makes werner look like a great first rounder

 

 

4th overall pick in that draft....

[Lawrence Owen]

Frankly, Dorsett's Speed and Catching ability IMO are his strengths.  He had 1 ,..yes, 1 drop in his last year at the U.  Route running is something he'll have to work on, but he has T.Y. to help him, (better option for that than A.J. because of style of play.)  But all the signals showing that he is out there working on his route running and playbook knowledge as hard as anyone can.  

Honestly, I think he'll be ready to be an impact player by the season opener.  Not that he'll get 100 catches and 1200 yards.  But with all the weapons he'll contribute, and his SPEED is the thing that teams have to account for...which will open up the short/intermediate routes for guys like A.J. Gore, and the TE's.  When Doresett and T.Y. clear safeties out of the middle of the field quickly, that will leave Luck to have a field day with the rest of his targets. 

[Colts_Fan12]

Too many 3 and outs. I like TY and he has improved a lot, but it took him 3 years to get things right. TY still took a step back at the last of this season and play offs.

Dorsett is TY 2.0. If he was as good as some on here thinks, he would have been drafted higher. IMO, in a few years, Dorsett will be what we all think he will be. Just not a 1st round pick. He is a project, as was Werner and we both know this.

nope he was the best pick available no one left was better Grigson said so. Your just a stupid fan. Dorsett isn't a luxury pick or a project pick / sarcasm

[gacker65]

nope he was the best pick available no one left was better Grigson said so. Your just a stupid fan. Dorsett isn't a luxury pick or a project pick / sarcasm

As I have said, am willing to wait for regular season.

 

As what Grigson said, I paraphrase, " I looked at the board for a player that stood out, had something that stood out".  Where is that BPA?  Sounds more like an excuse to reach, IMO.  Since we will not see the board, we will never know.

[Colts_Fan12]

As I have said, am willing to wait for regular season.

As what Grigson said, I paraphrase, " I looked at the board for a player that stood out, had something that stood out". Where is that BPA? Sounds more like an excuse to reach, IMO. Since we will not see the board, we will never know.

hey don't have to persuade me I hated the pick

[NewColtsFan]

There was a story after the draft, when people were complaining we didn't take Malcom Brown,  (I think it was ESPN's Mike Wells) that said a source within the franchise said Dorsett was ranked in the teens,  and Brown was ranked as a 2nd round talent, so no higher than 33rd.

 

I don't know why anyone would think Grigson is looking for an excuse to reach,  or is not telling the truth?

 

BEFORE the draft,  Grigson told the media that if the players available were roughly the same grade, he'd take the player at the position of need.    But, if there was a player with a much higher grade who played at a position of strength,  he would take that player even though he didn't play the position of need.

 

Grigson told everyone what he'd do,  and he did it.    I don't see any reason for him to be making it up.....

 

And for the record,  and I've said this dozens of times,  I would've taken Goldman.

[21isSuperman]

There was a story after the draft, when people were complaining we didn't take Malcom Brown,  (I think it was ESPN's Mike Wells) that said a source within the franchise said Dorsett was ranked in the teens,  and Brown was ranked as a 2nd round talent, so no higher than 33rd.

 

I don't know why anyone would think Grigson is looking for an excuse to reach,  or is not telling the truth?

 

BEFORE the draft,  Grigson told the media that if the players available were roughly the same grade, he'd take the player at the position of need.    But, if there was a player with a much higher grade who played at a position of strength,  he would take that player even though he didn't play the position of need.

 

Grigson told everyone what he'd do,  and he did it.    I don't see any reason for him to be making it up.....

 

And for the record,  and I've said this dozens of times,  I would've taken Goldman.

I think one of the problems many of the fans on here had with that report was that Brown was considered by the Colts to not be a first round talent.  Most, if not all, places I looked at for prospect info listed Brown and Goldman as first rounders, so to hear the Colts giving Brown a 2nd round grade makes you wonder what the reason is for the difference.  I'm certainly not a pro scout, nor am I in the Colts' war room, so I'm not trying to say Grigs and the scouts don't know what they're doing, but I think that's one reason for so many fans being upset at passing on Brown or Goldman (or even Collins).

[NewColtsFan]

I think one of the problems many of the fans on here had with that report was that Brown was considered by the Colts to not be a first round talent.  Most, if not all, places I looked at for prospect info listed Brown and Goldman as first rounders, so to hear the Colts giving Brown a 2nd round grade makes you wonder what the reason is for the difference.  I'm certainly not a pro scout, nor am I in the Colts' war room, so I'm not trying to say Grigs and the scouts don't know what they're doing, but I think that's one reason for so many fans being upset at passing on Brown or Goldman (or even Collins).

 

 

I know....   I was the poster who first wrote that here and I remember the thread went crazy with that news about Brown.

 

The only reason I can figure is what Bill Polian said on a draft show leading up to the draft.   And that is Brown is not a good fit in a 2-gap scheme, he's a 1-gap scheme player.

 

So, my guess is that's what pushes him down to a 2nd round grade.   The kid clearly is good.

 

Sometimes this 2-gap vs. 1-gap drives me crazy.    If you have a scheme and it's not a good fit for guys like JJ Watt (1-gap) and Suh,  then maybe you might want to re-think the scheme you play?

 

I'm so hungry for the Colts to have a very good defense that we can all count on....  I still think we're 1-3 years away....

[21isSuperman]

I know....   I was the poster who first wrote that here and I remember the thread went crazy with that news about Brown.

 

The only reason I can figure is what Bill Polian said on a draft show leading up to the draft.   And that is Brown is not a good fit in a 2-gap scheme, he's a 1-gap scheme player.

 

So, my guess is that's what pushes him down to a 2nd round grade.   The kid clearly is good.

 

Sometimes this 2-gap vs. 1-gap drives me crazy.    If you have a scheme and it's not a good fit for guys like JJ Watt (1-gap) and Suh,  then maybe you might want to re-think the scheme you play?

 

I'm so hungry for the Colts to have a very good defense that we can all count on....  I still think we're 1-3 years away....

I hear ya.  I've also read a lot of conflicting things regarding Brown's ability to play in a 2-gap or 1-gap system.  I've read some reports that say he can play in both.  I've read some that say he's only a 1-gap player.  Without knowing exactly what the reasoning was behind Brown receiving a 2nd round grade from Grigs and the scouts, it's all speculation

[jameszeigler834]

Too many 3 and outs.  I like TY and he has improved a lot, but it took him 3 years to get things right.  TY still took a step back at the last of this season and play offs.

 

Dorsett is TY 2.0.  If he was as good as some on here thinks, he would have been drafted higher.  IMO, in a few years, Dorsett will be what we all think he will be.  Just not a 1st round pick.  He is a project, as was Werner and we both know this. 

He is a lot better player than you think just because he wasn't the first guy taken doesn't mean he is not an impact player and TY was a third round pick I think this guy has way better hands and is faster than T. Y

[gacker65]

He is a lot better player than you think just because he wasn't the first guy taken doesn't mean he is not an impact player and TY was a third round pick I think this guy has way better hands and is faster than T. Y

I can wait to see how good Dorsett is.

 

Dorsett was our 1st pick.  My question was, if he is good as some on here think, why wasn't he taken ahead of Agholar (spelling?) from USC ?

 

I'll give you that he has better hands than TY on the deep pass, but Dorsett has a tendency to let the ball into his body (body catch) under 20 yards.

 

IMO, Dorsett's impact will be in the KR/PR and deep pass game.  That is not much out of a 1st round pick, IMO.

 

I do agree, that in 2-3 years Dorsett, with coaching, will become what we are expecting this year.  Until Dorsett improves his routes under 20 yards and learns to use his hands to catch under 20 yards, he is a project just like TY.

[Superman]

My question was, if he is good as some on here think, why wasn't he taken ahead of Agholar (spelling?) from USC ?

 

How is that a relevant analysis? You have 32 teams with their own evaluations and rankings. 

 

In 2014, Marqise Lee went ahead of Jordan Matthews. Paul Richardson, Cody Latimer and Allen Robinson went ahead of Jarvis Landry. Shoot, Evans and Watkins went ahead of Beckham.

 

'If Beckham is as good as some think he is, why wasn't he taken ahead of Watkins?' 'If Jarvis Landry is so good, why did Latimer get drafted ahead of him?'

 

'If Russell Wilson is so good, why wasn't he drafted ahead of Brock Osweiler?'

 

This is flimsy criticism, and it exposes faulty reasoning. It makes no difference. Even if Agholor going ahead of Dorsett means that he's better than Dorsett (which is up for debate), that doesn't mean Dorsett isn't good, or isn't worthy of his draft spot. 

[jameszeigler834]

I can wait to see how good Dorsett is.

 

Dorsett was our 1st pick.  My question was, if he is good as some on here think, why wasn't he taken ahead of Agholar (spelling?) from USC ?

 

I'll give you that he has better hands than TY on the deep pass, but Dorsett has a tendency to let the ball into his body (body catch) under 20 yards.

 

IMO, Dorsett's impact will be in the KR/PR and deep pass game.  That is not much out of a 1st round pick, IMO.

 

I do agree, that in 2-3 years Dorsett, with coaching, will become what we are expecting this year.  Until Dorsett improves his routes under 20 yards and learns to use his hands to catch under 20 yards, he is a project just like TY.

You guys question almost every move Grigson makes though and some not saying all but some actually turn out to be good players.

[gacker65]

You guys question almost every move Grigson makes though and some not saying all but some actually turn out to be good players.

I question Grigson's moves, as some does not make sense.  Problem is, they still don't make sense.

 

I have been told I don't see the big picture, but the big picture is a scrambled mess.

 

Grigson is willing to take chances in Free Agency, but IMO, freezes up during the draft.

 

Examples:  FA, we have taken DHB- known not to have hands.  Nicks- coming off 2 bad injuries.  Laron Landry- again injuries and PEDs.

 

Draft: In 2012- passed on O-lineman for a 1 dimensional TE, who was Luck's BFF in college.  Spent 3 draft choices on a 4th round               WR (4th round- 2012, 5th round 2013, and 4th round 2014) to move back into the 3rd round instead of waiting 6 picks.

          In 2013, instead of trading out of the 1st round, we drafted a falling DE to convert to a pass rushing OLB.

          In 2014, spent 1st round on, IMO, another project player.  I call him a project because, just like TY, he will need coaching in his           under 20 yards route running and will his catching under 20 yards.  Speed does not help you get open under 20 yards and I               do not see us throwing 20 yards+, 30-40 times a game.

 

I'll be 59 in August and have watched football since I saw the '69 Super Bowl.  I saw teams raise and fall.  I saw teams, on paper, draft well and get good FAs and still couldn't get a winning season.  I saw the building of Niners in the 80s as I lived in CA.  I saw, from outside, the move of the Colts as well as the miss management of the Colts in the 80s and into the 90s.

 

I have give Grigson his props when his moves have benefited the team, and will continue to question moves that hurt the team.

[Superman]

I have give Grigson his props when his moves have benefited the team, and will continue to question moves that hurt the team.

 

Actually, this comes off as you assuming that moves that don't immediately make sense to you or don't fit your philosophy are going to hurt the team.

[NewColtsFan]

I question Grigson's moves, as some does not make sense.  Problem is, they still don't make sense.

 

I have been told I don't see the big picture, but the big picture is a scrambled mess.

 

Grigson is willing to take chances in Free Agency, but IMO, freezes up during the draft.

 

Examples:  FA, we have taken DHB- known not to have hands.  Nicks- coming off 2 bad injuries.  Laron Landry- again injuries and PEDs.

 

Draft: In 2012- passed on O-lineman for a 1 dimensional TE, who was Luck's BFF in college.  Spent 3 draft choices on a 4th round               WR (4th round- 2012, 5th round 2013, and 4th round 2014) to move back into the 3rd round instead of waiting 6 picks.

          In 2013, instead of trading out of the 1st round, we drafted a falling DE to convert to a pass rushing OLB.

          In 2014, spent 1st round on, IMO, another project player.  I call him a project because, just like TY, he will need coaching in his           under 20 yards route running and will his catching under 20 yards.  Speed does not help you get open under 20 yards and I               do not see us throwing 20 yards+, 30-40 times a game.

 

I'll be 59 in August and have watched football since I saw the '69 Super Bowl.  I saw teams raise and fall.  I saw teams, on paper, draft well and get good FAs and still couldn't get a winning season.  I saw the building of Niners in the 80s as I lived in CA.  I saw, from outside, the move of the Colts as well as the miss management of the Colts in the 80s and into the 90s.

 

I have give Grigson his props when his moves have benefited the team, and will continue to question moves that hurt the team.

 

You're memory is playing tricks with you.   

 

We did NOT trade 3 picks to move up to get Hilton.    We traded two.   Our 4th and our 5th to move up into the 3rd.

 

The 4th in '14 was traded to get Montori Hughes in '13.  

 

Also.....  you've got more years wrong....   you're calling the 2015 draft the 2014 draft.   And the Colts led the NFL last year in passes over 20 yards.

[akcolt]

I question Grigson's moves, as some does not make sense. Problem is, they still don't make sense.

I have been told I don't see the big picture, but the big picture is a scrambled mess.

Grigson is willing to take chances in Free Agency, but IMO, freezes up during the draft.

Examples: FA, we have taken DHB- known not to have hands. Nicks- coming off 2 bad injuries. Laron Landry- again injuries and PEDs.

Draft: In 2012- passed on O-lineman for a 1 dimensional TE, who was Luck's BFF in college. Spent 3 draft choices on a 4th round WR (4th round- 2012, 5th round 2013, and 4th round 2014) to move back into the 3rd round instead of waiting 6 picks.

In 2013, instead of trading out of the 1st round, we drafted a falling DE to convert to a pass rushing OLB.

In 2014, spent 1st round on, IMO, another project player. I call him a project because, just like TY, he will need coaching in his under 20 yards route running and will his catching under 20 yards. Speed does not help you get open under 20 yards and I do not see us throwing 20 yards+, 30-40 times a game.

I'll be 59 in August and have watched football since I saw the '69 Super Bowl. I saw teams raise and fall. I saw teams, on paper, draft well and get good FAs and still couldn't get a winning season. I saw the building of Niners in the 80s as I lived in CA. I saw, from outside, the move of the Colts as well as the miss management of the Colts in the 80s and into the 90s.

I have give Grigson his props when his moves have benefited the team, and will continue to question moves that hurt the team.

Comes off a non sense to me the drafts are all mixed up You don't know what was traded for who or when.

You say Grigs doesn't take chances in the draft and use trading up to take an undersized WR from a small school to make that point?????

Who happened to be a steal. Cmon man

[gacker65]

Actually, this comes off as you assuming that moves that don't immediately make sense to you or don't fit your philosophy are going to hurt the team.

It means exactly what I said.  Spending a 1st round pick on a project player.  Over paying an old and slow DE.  Things like that.

[gacker65]

You're memory is playing tricks with you.   

 

We did NOT trade 3 picks to move up to get Hilton.    We traded two.   Our 4th and our 5th to move up into the 3rd.

 

The 4th in '14 was traded to get Montori Hughes in '13.  

 

Also.....  you've got more years wrong....   you're calling the 2015 draft the 2014 draft.   And the Colts led the NFL last year in passes over 20 yards.

TY was got for 2012-4th round, 2013- 5th round and because Grigson wanted Hughes ( I believe), 2014- 4th round.  Since Grigson basically gave up 3 picks for TY, instead of waiting 6 picks

 

We will never know if TY would have been there. 

[NewColtsFan]

TY was got for 2012-4th round, 2013- 5th round and because Grigson wanted Hughes ( I believe), 2014- 4th round.  Since Grigson basically gave up 3 picks for TY, instead of waiting 6 picks

 

We will never know if TY would have been there. 

 

I don't understand you're saying "basically gave up 3 picks for TY"?      We didn't.     The Hilton trade was in 2012.    The Hughes trade was in 2013.

 

In 2012, we gave up our 2012 #4 and our 2013 #5 for Hilton.

 

in 2013, we gave up our 2014 #4 for Hughes.

 

Two separate trades.     Not connected in any way.

 

As to the trade,  why in the world would you complain that we traded a 4 and 5 for a player who turned into TY Hilton?

 

The trade was a steal from the Colts' perspective.     We gave up little for a player who is one of the best at what he does!

 

The trade is a complete win for Grigson and the franchise.     No downside.

[BOTT]

I think one of the problems many of the fans on here had with that report was that Brown was considered by the Colts to not be a first round talent.  Most, if not all, places I looked at for prospect info listed Brown and Goldman as first rounders, so to hear the Colts giving Brown a 2nd round grade makes you wonder what the reason is for the difference.  I'm certainly not a pro scout, nor am I in the Colts' war room, so I'm not trying to say Grigs and the scouts don't know what they're doing, but I think that's one reason for so many fans being upset at passing on Brown or Goldman (or even Collins).

Meh, there where a lot of mixed opinions on Brown. Most thought he was inconsistent throughout his career.....then he had an impressive senior bowl week and that boosted his stock. Getting drafted by the Pats also boosted his stock.....cause BB does no wrong lol.

[gacker65]

I don't understand you're saying "basically gave up 3 picks for TY"?      We didn't.     The Hilton trade was in 2012.    The Hughes trade was in 2013.

 

In 2012, we gave up our 2012 #4 and our 2013 #5 for Hilton.

 

in 2013, we gave up our 2014 #4 for Hughes.

 

Two separate trades.     Not connected in any way.

 

As to the trade,  why in the world would you complain that we traded a 4 and 5 for a player who turned into TY Hilton?

 

The trade was a steal from the Colts' perspective.     We gave up little for a player who is one of the best at what he does!

 

The trade is a complete win for Grigson and the franchise.     No downside.

You understand perfectly about what happened.  The two are connected by the fact that we used the 2013#5 pick to help move up to get TY.  If we hadn't done that, we would have gotten Hughes without trading our 2014#4.

 

You are correct, in hind sight, TY's drafting was a win.  Remember, in 2012, it was a 50-50 gamble.  

[aaron11]

 I'm certainly not a pro scout, nor am I in the Colts' war room, so I'm not trying to say Grigs and the scouts don't know what they're doing, but I think that's one reason for so many fans being upset at passing on Brown or Goldman (or even Collins).

i wouldnt put much stock into mock drafts or analyst grades on drafting.  too many people in the world(especially on the internet) think they would make a better gm than the guys that do it for a living.

 

we see that often on this very forum

[NewColtsFan]

You understand perfectly about what happened.  The two are connected by the fact that we used the 2013#5 pick to help move up to get TY.  If we hadn't done that, we would have gotten Hughes without trading our 2014#4.

 

You are correct, in hind sight, TY's drafting was a win.  Remember, in 2012, it was a 50-50 gamble.  

 

It's the cost of doing business.

 

You could make the same argument about tons of trades.     "If we hadn't traded pick X,  we wouldn't have had to also trade pick Z for that player..."         

 

You gotta do what you gotta do.....