Please Consider This (Edited)...

[Jaric]

Nice first post Mrs Jaric.

LOL

Like my wife would ever agree with me in front of strangers.

[BmoreColt]

I still have his Jersey hanging in my closet.

A constant reminder of the folly of impulsive purchases.

EDIT: Right next to my Freddy Keaiho jersey...

:cuss:

The Colts need to bring in players and keep players that will improve the team, obviously filling a team full of Undrafted Free Agents hasn't helped the team very much... Which is why the Colts have the problems they do now

[doogansquest]

There's some insinuation here that those whom want wins are sappy and immature.

How's this for immature.....

Everyones been sayin Suck for Luck

l got my own clever rhyme

@#*% Luck.

@#*% him right in the ear. We got Manning for 4 years. Good nuff.

That...is hilarious. Crude, but funny.

Peyton Manning (in the early days) used to throw tons of interceptions, if Andrew Luck does that are people going to say he's a bust? C'mon, let's remember back to when we struggled and Manning had to rely on a marvelous guy named Marvin and a great set of running backs named Faulk and James.

Peyton also set the rookie record for touchdowns, yards, and completions, so we knew that the potential was there. The INT's were simply a product of taking risks, not being incapable of reading a defense, or having a "gunslinger's" mentality.

I think sanctimonious or holier-than-thou might be a better description. The fact is that a loss is in the best long-term interests of the Colts, particularly if PM comes back and they trade down.

However, as a Manning fan, beginning with Archie while he was at Ole Miss, who has cheered for the Colts since Peyton arrived, I hope Peyton is traded or released and he goes to a team with some talent to finish his career.

I never said or insinuated I was better than anyone, or above anyone, or "apart" (as "Holy" means "apart" or "other") from anyone here.

I don't see how this scenario is any different from hoping we bench our players in week 15 in our 09 season to prevent injuries. You argue that we play to win every game and yet, if you bench starters, you are clearly not putting your best foot forward and therefore, not trying as hard. Well why can't we do that for the next game? Try a little less hard so that we solidify the 1st overall pick in the 2012 draft which would provide almost twice as much value as the 2nd overall pick. In both cases, you are cheating the fans short-term, but helping the franchise long-term

Which I echoed later. I don't recall anyone hoping we benched our players in week 15 of the 09 season. We do play to win the games, but our draft or playoff position wouldn't have changed at all with regards to how we finished the last two games. We were also going to play more football after the regular season, however, so I could see the need to rest players. This year, it's all about momentum, and guys trying to keep their jobs; plus, there's no post-season for us, so guys will have plenty of time to heal and/or rest.

In one scenario, we were saving our best players for the playoffs.

In the other, we'd be saving our best players for...the Draft?

I certainly didn't agree with pulling our guys in 2009, but it actually makes more sense (if there's any sense to be made of it), than what people are proposing now.

In all honesty, you only further stamp truth into my point: how did the Decision in 2009 sit with most fans? It was better for the long-term health of our guys, but everyone here hated it. Some haven't gotten over it, and others still stopped going to the games. That costs the team money, and approval. It also means tv stations are less likely to show us at the end of a season when we have a good record. All bad for the franchise, right?

This would be no different in the long-term.

Players play to win the game, fans can wish for the best for their team whether its short term or long term.

There's nobody denying that. The issue in contention is whether it's for the best to not win - people who think it is for the best want a loss, people who don't want a win - no better fan mumbo jumbo. If I was a player I'd be playing to win no doubt, but I'm not.

How is it that fans know what's better for the team than do the players and coaches? Are they not fighting for their jobs? Does winning not make fans and tv sponsors happier? Does that not bring more money and attract more talent? Does winning not create a more cohesive group that will play better going forward, as opposed to asking them to lie down so we can bring in a college kid to replace a few of them?

Who are you to decide what's best for the team? How do you know trading that pick away, or taking some other stud pick #2 won't end up better for the long-term health of the Colts organization than drafting Andrew Luck?

You speak as if you are certain to what's better for the team without knowing anything about Luck at the professional level.

Just because he's touted as the hottest prospect in a decade doesn't mean anything. He's only being compared to John Elway for the HYPE being generated. His play style and ability has been linked to Matt Ryan, Terry Bradshaw, and Tony Romo. Sorry, but I don't trust any of those guys to shoulder a franchise. Bradshaw's lucky he didn't have to do anything in Pittsburgh but act as a beneficiary.

You are telling us that the only opinion that meens anything is yours. You go as far as saying " Shame on us" for those that have a different opinion.You are so wrong about what is most important to the Colts. Its the FANS, not the players. This team is nothing without all the money that we put down to buy their stuff. Its nothing without the ratings that we give by watching our team. I have been a fan a heck of alot longer than anyone playingand that meens something to me. I also dont buy your premise that losing is never a good thing , In life, sometimes we have to lose in order to get ahead. Its like when the Marine decides that its better to jump on a hanggrenade than it is to let all his buddies die. He made a choice that by losing, his buddies wins I know, your going to complain about the analogy. Peyton is going to play another 2-3 years, that meens we will get low draft picks until hes gone. It makes sense to grab the best prospect coming out of college in many years. I know that you people want to gloss over that and you think it is disrespectful to the players that are playing. Well tough, we are not a competitive team without Manning and thats the reality of the situation and if that hurts their feelins, so be it. Most of us fans care about winning the SB, NOT just winning games. We want to know that we have a chance to win every year. Not just making playoffs. Is that asking too much, maybe but thats what we want. One more win meens nothing other than we lose out. This game has changed and we need this pick to keep the Colts at a level where we can compete to win the SB. You have every right to disagree but no right to put those of us down that want Luck. We love our team and DOOGAN, you are dead wrong.

You are right, I will poke at that analogy. It's terrible. Whom do you think should be asked to jump on the proverbial grenade in this case? Freeney? Manning? Why does anyone getting paid to play care about the potential benefits of drafting some kid from college to replace them? These are paid professionals in the realm of entertainment; not volunteers trained to defend a way of life. This is their livelihood; this is how they will feed, clothe, and educate their children. One slip up, and they are gone. Their next down could be their last. It just takes a bad stretch of games or an injury to end a player's career. These guys are doing their job by trying to win. If they lose, they aren't helping the Colts win. They are potentially losing their entire future, or a chance at a better contract. How does acquiring a college player help the Colts win? The Colts are the players, coaches, and front office; not us. We only cheer for, and observe them. We buy the tickets and the merchandise, but we wouldn't if they didn't put a winning product on the field.

The fans didn't make the franchise; the franchise had to earn the fans. That happens when an entertaining, and dare I say (for fear of being called "corny) inspiring group of guys goes out there and tries every week to win.

To the second point I highlighted, and PLEASE answer these questions: Who doesn't care about winning Super Bowls? Why are winning games and winning Super Bowls mutually exclusive? Why if I want our team to win a game does that mean I care less about winning Super Bowls? Am I only allowed to dish out so much "care" in terms of winning? Is there a finite percentage that is equal among all fans? (As an aside, we have disproved your notion that we aren't competitive without Manning; we have been competitive in a lot of games this year, and now we're winning games without him. That's a fact, not an opinion, which makes you wrong.)

You want to know you have a chance to win Super Bowls: how does Luck ensure that? How does Luck change us from a team that makes the playoffs to a team that wins Super Bowls? Surely, he must already be better than Peyton Manning, right? When 4 years go by, and IF he gets to play, and then 2-3 years of development ensue, and still no Super Bowl...what then? 8-10 years from now, when he's just another good QB without a championship, are we happy that we didn't maximize our chances with the best player to take a snap in NFL history? How is Luck better for the future of the franchise than stacking the deck to make a well-rounded team around Manning and his eventual replacement (drafted later, and for cheaper)? Both are hypothetical, neither are reality. So your scenario is actually less likely. Every team that has ever had a great QB for a long time has ALWAYS tried to put a plan for succession in place. The Packers accidentally nailed it; other than that, it's virtually never happened. (Young was a vet already, not a draft by the 49ers.) Why are we going to pull off what Green Bay did despite having a "non-competitive" team, and an "incompetent" front office? Why aren't we going to end up like every other franchise that has failed making the transition? It is the norm, after all.

Finally, I didn't say you don't love your team. I also didn't put you down. I stated a fact. People have gone so far as to poll, in the majority, FOR losing the last game. So yes, people are hoping to lose. It's not a matter of "I want us to win, but won't be upset if we lose," as they claim. I saw the hypocrisy and pointed it out, and those who were guilty of it blew up at me for it. Nobody likes to admit, or be called out when they were wrong, and that's all you are exercising. At least own up to that. I find it funny, by the way, that people are allowed to flame me for calling them out, but I'm required to change the title of my thread because it might offend someone. Direct insults are okay, but not a revelation of fact...

[Jaric]

Finally, I didn't say you don't love your team. I also didn't put you down. I stated a fact. People have gone so far as to poll, in the majority, FOR losing the last game. So yes, people are hoping to lose. It's not a matter of "I want us to win, but won't be upset if we lose," as they claim. I saw the hypocrisy and pointed it out, and those who were guilty of it blew up at me for it. Nobody likes to admit, or be called out when they were wrong, and that's all you are exercising. At least own up to that. I find it funny, by the way, that people are allowed to flame me for calling them out, but I'm required to change the title of my thread because it might offend someone. Direct insults are okay, but not a revelation of fact...

You were "flamed" because you once again pulled your "I'm a better fan than all of you" act which wears pretty thin on people. When asked to debate the subject on it's own merits rather than resorting to insults, you are remarkable silent, yet find time to post about how no one will respond to a post someone else made because it's full of logic. You then have the audacity to insist on calling people hypocrites because they disagree with you.

Frankly I'm sick of it. I think alot of other people are too.

You want to make the arguement. Again, by all means make the arguement that going 3-13 is better than drafting first overall. I will be more than happy to debate this with you using logic instead of insults. Ball's in your court Doogan. By all means prove me wrong.

[Dan]

This has been edited to "Please Consider This"?? Really?! I mean, I think Doogan is a self-aggrandising patronising "holier than thou" edit, but the levels of censorship on this site are taking it too far. If he wants to look down on everybody with a different opinion to him, then let him, similarly if people want to tell him how much of an dipstick they think he's being let them. Provided nobody is getting hurt (save a slight internet ego bruise), then it's no big deal. Death threats and over the top insults are different matters, but let him have his opinion!

[JoKeR]

I never said I know best for the franchise, all I said is players play to win and fans have the right to wish the best for the franchise whether its now or the future. Never did I say drafting Luck is for the best and im 100% right. That wasn't my point at all.

Basically my point was that fans are allowed to have a different perspective than players. If a fan feels that losing the last game of the season gives the team the best chance in the future, I see nothing wrong with it. The fan can be objective where a player/coach can't.

[buccolts]

I still want my team to win, and let the chips fall as they may.

I don't want my team to 'tank' a game for better draft position.

However, I understand the implications of a loss. Though I don't feel they're as lofty as those who may think we should tank think.

I do not agree with, nor understand, the comparison between 'tanking' this game, and resting starters for the playoffs.

However, let's take that thought a bit further.

I suppose I shouldn't have been aggravated with our rash of one and dones, over the past decade.

Perhaps we weren't good enough to win the SB some of those years, and losing those first round games were really better for the team going forward, as it bettered our draft position.

But, what about our SB Championship year?

If there ever was a year to believe we couldn't do it, it was that year, and a better draft position would NOT have been a better result.

I will say, though, that, if the team decides that this last game is a good opportunity to find out what some of our 'developing' players have in them, then I'm O.K. with that as well.

I suppose that could make me wishy-washy in the eyes of some, but I'm just of the opinion that the team will do what's best for the team. I'll sit back and enjoy it, hope we win, and understand what it means if we don't.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

It was a awesome win, for a few minutes it felt like the good ol days.

People shouldn't really worry about who we draft because with picks that high, its going to be a good draft. Don't worry too much about not getting Luck.

But if the Colts get the number1 pick, atleast there's a silver lining.

I always hope for win & I must admit the last 2 weeks wins feel great, and I will hope the Colts play well & win, but if we don't I will not be heart broken at all. Either way we will get a potentially great player & rely on the system to do so!! It was nice to see coach Caldwell so fired up I like it. The guy really looked like he's coaching his butt off!!

[Peytongirl]

This has been edited to "Please Consider This"?? Really?! I mean, I think Doogan is a self-aggrandising patronising "holier than thou" edit, but the levels of censorship on this site are taking it too far. If he wants to look down on everybody with a different opinion to him, then let him, similarly if people want to tell him how much of an dipstick they think he's being let them. Provided nobody is getting hurt (save a slight internet ego bruise), then it's no big deal. Death threats and over the top insults are different matters, but let him have his opinion!

Dan,

This forum is about mutual respect, not a free-for-all internet ego bruising competition. The Colts Fan Forum has always stood as a different type of football site where all fans could come and discuss their team and their favored sport WITHOUT the fear of being bullied, insulted or flamed for such opinions.

Unfortunately there are far too many who do not wish to follow that 'Golden Rule', but this isn't the wild west and it is not your average football forum. This is the Colts forum.

One of the main reasons the title was edited was because of other people, not Doogan. The title was indeed a red flag to a bull to anyone sporting for a fight (thus provocative), but plenty others have been giving just as good and came ready for battle. They are fired up to voice their opinion in thread after thread, but heavens no if anyone voices one that is opposing to theirs.

That is not how it works. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion and it is valid, but it is yours and yours alone. That goes for everybody. You don't have to understand someone elses' point of view, but if you are going to participate in discussions here...you (a general YOU to the entire forum, not to Dan in particular - lest there be any misunderstandings) have to respect it.

Now this is to Dan...if you have a problem with the way the board is moderated, PM a mod. And insults are not cool. They are considered personal shots.

To everyone...this can be a good debate, but if it continues on the downhill trend...it is going to be locked. There is enough fuel already around here.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

[Dan]

Don't you guys have amendments about this sort of thing?

Granted I'm pleased you actually responded. Normally if I were to post anything controversial it would be deleted and/or ignored. I'm not questioning why you're doing it, I'm just saying you don't need to. It's a difference of opinion and I'm not going to press the point any further, until the issue upsets me again when I'll get on my own little soapbox

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

This has been edited to "Please Consider This"?? Really?! I mean, I think Doogan is a self-aggrandising patronising "holier than thou" edit, but the levels of censorship on this site are taking it too far. If he wants to look down on everybody with a different opinion to him, then let him, similarly if people want to tell him how much of an dipstick they think he's being let them. Provided nobody is getting hurt (save a slight internet ego bruise), then it's no big deal. Death threats and over the top insults are different matters, but let him have his opinion!

You're absolutely right!They try to control every aspect of this forum,even our ideas and opinions!Its shocking and disturbing!

[Andy]

Please. One need only search your posting history and they'll quickly find that most of them are you some way shape of form taking shots at the forum at large and then running off.

And quite frankly, I'm sick of this "I'm a better fan than you" crap. It's nonsense. You think I'm hoping they lose because I hate the team or the players? Nonsense. If I did I wouldn't be here. Those of us who are of that opinion have done so only because we believe it will help the team going forward.

And no, this isn't about Andrew Luck, so don't even bother going there. As I've said a million times, Luck or no Luck, the difference between going 2-14 and 3-13 is so insignificant from drafting first overall compared to 2nd or 3rd. That's the point.

And you know what, you are more than free to disagree. I even understand your viewpoint. It's not like I make a habit of doing this. This is what I think is in the best interests of the team. If it wasn't I wouldn't hope for that. The difference here, is that when you or someone else expresses that viewpoint that differs from mine (and IMO one that hurts the team more than helps it) I don't question your fan hood or try to make you out to be a lesser fan because of it.

You want to argue the team is better off going 3-13, then fine, argue it. But if you call mine or anyone else s fan hood into question expect a nasty response in reply.

Thank you for putting Doogan in his place... he thinks he's God himself, talking down to a lot of people. No one is better than everyone else here, so what makes him better? He doesn't know more than anyone. Also, darn, you got +15 on your post, that's awesome

[buccolts]

Thank you for putting Doogan in his place... he thinks he's God himself, talking down to a lot of people. No one is better than everyone else here, so what makes him better? He doesn't know more than anyone. Also, darn, you got +15 on your post, that's awesome

Was this supposed to be a PM?

lol

[Andy]

Was this supposed to be a PM?

lol

No. But looking at it now, it should have been

CAN THE MODS DELETE THAT POST OF MINE, IT WAS RUDE ON MY PART.

[WoolMagnet]

Another worthless, unimaginative, condescending thread.

Yawn...........

[21isSuperman]

You're absolutely right!They try to control every aspect of this forum,even our ideas and opinions!Its shocking and disturbing!

If you guys don't like it, feel free to leave. No one is forcing you to be here. All of our rules are clearly posted and aren't ambiguous. They are easy to understand and follow; this is a football forum, it isn't asking for too much when we say don't call each others names or attack each other. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but make sure this is the right place for it. The rest of the forum members don't care what you think about another member. We are here to mainly discuss football and football related topics. So feel free to post your opinion and start a discussion, in fact, we encourage it. But there is no need to resort to name calling and attacks when you don't agree with someone's opinion.

And if you feel like you can't do that or you don't like how we moderate the forums, leave. No one is forcing you to be here.

[vitoaf27]

I think the two sides of the argument are having a major lapse of communication. I do not believe ANY fan wants or expects the team to TANK. It would be completely irrational to think that coach Caldwell would pull starters, or that Freeney or Saturday or Wayne would take plays off to better our chance at losing. I believe, at least speaking for the rational fans, that the "pro-lose" fans are simply rooting for the Jaguars to win (in the case that the Rams and Vikings both lose). I certainly won't be upset either way, but I would prefer if we played our hearts out and had the lead the entire game until the final seconds when the Jaguars kick a 65 yarder to beat us as time expires. I don't think anybody WANTS to see Freeney purposely not sack a quarterback, or for Wayne to purposely drop a pass. That would disgust me. However, I would prefer that we lost.

I also don't think that some people fully realize that the "pro-lose" fans don't give a hoot who we draft. I think it is unanimously agreed upon that the 1st overall pick is much more valuable than the 2nd overall pick, especially this year, and especially with the new rookie salary cap. So if we have the 1st pick, we have a plethora of options to choose from, one of the more likely candidates being that we would draft Luck. If we get the 2nd pick, we can't draft Luck, and we don't get near as much value for a trade as we would for the 1st pick. I personally would prefer us to trade down, but honestly, again, I would be happy doing either one.

[Peytongirl]

And any references to the 'amendments' and 'free speech' do not apply to a privately owned forum. You agree to abide by the rules of this site when you join. It is each and every member's own responsibility to read, understand and follow the rules.

A side note to freedom of speech. When you choose to invoke that freedom, you must also take responsibility for what you say. It is a two way street. You are free to say whatever you please here. But we are also free to enforce the rules that we have been entrusted to carry out. ;)

Now once again and for the final time, forum moderation issues should be addressed to one of the mods privately. Forum moderation is not going to become a free-for-all debate or gripefest for everyone. We are just doing our jobs.

Is this going to be back on topic, or is the subject finished?

[Peytongirl]

I think the two sides of the argument are having a major lapse of communication. I do not believe ANY fan wants or expects the team to TANK. It would be completely irrational to think that coach Caldwell would pull starters, or that Freeney or Saturday or Wayne would take plays off to better our chance at losing. I believe, at least speaking for the rational fans, that the "pro-lose" fans are simply rooting for the Jaguars to win (in the case that the Rams and Vikings both lose). I certainly won't be upset either way, but I would prefer if we played our hearts out and had the lead the entire game until the final seconds when the Jaguars kick a 65 yarder to beat us as time expires. I don't think anybody WANTS to see Freeney purposely not sack a quarterback, or for Wayne to purposely drop a pass. That would disgust me. However, I would prefer that we lost.

I also don't think that some people fully realize that the "pro-lose" fans don't give a hoot who we draft. I think it is unanimously agreed upon that the 1st overall pick is much more valuable than the 2nd overall pick, especially this year, and especially with the new rookie salary cap. So if we have the 1st pick, we have a plethora of options to choose from, one of the more likely candidates being that we would draft Luck. If we get the 2nd pick, we can't draft Luck, and we don't get near as much value for a trade as we would for the 1st pick. I personally would prefer us to trade down, but honestly, again, I would be happy doing either one.

Thank you so much. I don't see why this is so difficult or why people have to be so insulting and venomous about it.

If we play our hardest and lose, great - we get the #1 pick and they get the best player they want or they trade it. YAY! Or if the Rams lose.... same.

If we win out and they guys end the season on a high note with a well played game and we get the 2nd pick - YAY! We will still get a amazing player at an even better price with more money to spend on other players who need to be resigned.

It is truly a win-win situation, so why all the fighting? We play to win and if we lose, meh. We have a great consolation prize.

[Dan]

If you guys don't like it, feel free to leave. No one is forcing you to be here. All of our rules are clearly posted and aren't ambiguous. They are easy to understand and follow; this is a football forum, it isn't asking for too much when we say don't call each others names or attack each other. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but make sure this is the right place for it. The rest of the forum members don't care what you think about another member. We are here to mainly discuss football and football related topics. So feel free to post your opinion and start a discussion, in fact, we encourage it. But there is no need to resort to name calling and attacks when you don't agree with someone's opinion.

And if you feel like you can't do that or you don't like how we moderate the forums, leave. No one is forcing you to be here.

Don't be ridiculous. You're supposed to be a moderator, a position of responsibility, and you're coming out with "if you don't like it then leave" which is a ridiculous position to take in any situation. People are allowed to have issues with the way the site is run without wanting to leave. If you vote democrat but a republican President wins, and you complain about it, then wouldn't you be disgusted if somebody told you to # off to another country? No, you have the right to disagree without being told to leave, as we should do on here.

And any references to the 'amendments' and 'free speech' do not apply to a privately owned forum. You agree to abide by the rules of this site when you join. It is each and every member's own responsibility to read, understand and follow the rules.

A side note to freedom of speech. When you choose to invoke that freedom, you must also take responsibility for what you say. It is a two way street. You are free to say whatever you please here. But we are also free to enforce the rules that we have been entrusted to carry out. ;)

Now once again and for the final time, forum moderation issues should be addressed to one of the mods privately. Forum moderation is not going to become a free-for-all debate or gripefest for everyone. We are just doing our jobs.

Is this going to be back on topic, or is the subject finished?

The amendment thing was a joke so please don't try to one up me on that. And I take full responsibility, and stand by everything I say until I'm given reason to apologise, something a lot of members on here could do with learning.

It is truly a win-win situation, so why all the fighting?

It's very simple - because of people like Doogan (no, he's not the only one) who play the true fan card on people who disagree with them, whether explicitly or like Doogan, implicitly with vehement denial, even though everybody sees the pedestal. I've spoken to several people on here who have no issue with people with different opinions to them, but then a thread like this comes along so violently disagreeing with every pro-lose person, it's bound to start conflict. God forbid what would happen if I started a thread this incensed about how losing is the best thing to do.

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

If you guys don't like it, feel free to leave. No one is forcing you to be here. All of our rules are clearly posted and aren't ambiguous. They are easy to understand and follow; this is a football forum, it isn't asking for too much when we say don't call each others names or attack each other. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but make sure this is the right place for it. The rest of the forum members don't care what you think about another member. We are here to mainly discuss football and football related topics. So feel free to post your opinion and start a discussion, in fact, we encourage it. But there is no need to resort to name calling and attacks when you don't agree with someone's opinion.

And if you feel like you can't do that or you don't like how we moderate the forums, leave. No one is forcing you to be here.

I never attacked anyone.I simply backed-up a statement that another poster made.I'm here to talk colts football...that's all.

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

Don't be ridiculous. You're supposed to be a moderator, a position of responsibility, and you're coming out with "if you don't like it then leave" which is a ridiculous position to take in any situation. People are allowed to have issues with the way the site is run without wanting to leave. If you vote democrat but a republican President wins, and you complain about it, then wouldn't you be disgusted if somebody told you to # off to another country? No, you have the right to disagree without being told to leave, as we should do on here.

The amendment thing was a joke so please don't try to one up me on that. And I take full responsibility, and stand by everything I say until I'm given reason to apologise, something a lot of members on here could do with learning.

It's very simple - because of people like Doogan (no, he's not the only one) who play the true fan card on people who disagree with them, whether explicitly or like Doogan, implicitly with vehement denial, even though everybody sees the pedestal. I've spoken to several people on here who have no issue with people with different opinions to them, but then a thread like this comes along so violently disagreeing with every pro-lose person, it's bound to start conflict. God forbid what would happen if I started a thread this incensed about how losing is the best thing to do.

Thank you!I think EVERYTHING you said is correct and accurate.And i admire your guts for posting it.

P.S.DQ is a pretty cool guy once you get to know him.I think our crappy season has alot of our fanbase in a fowl mood.

[ruksak]

.

Why can't we just discuss football?

.

[LUVTHESHOE]

For those of you who want us to lose the last game, all in the name of a player who hasn't played a snap in the NFL; all for a player who is not a member of this team you (claim to) love, nor a teammate to the guys we cheer for every week...please consider this.

Watch this video. See the elation of the players who ARE Indianapolis Colts. Guys who have proven themselves in the NFL, and who give back to the community we are all privileged to be a part of. These are the guys that matter. Many of these are the faces we need to re-sign. These guys want to win:

http://www.colts.com...15-14b0f08f6b27

You want them to lose? You are going to cheer for them to lose to get a guy who's not as good as any of them right now? You want that joy to drain out of them so we can pick up a guy who won't play with them? A guy who won't bring them back from this losing season because many of them will be gone by the time he plays, or will be cut to make room for his contract?

I'll admit, I understand the complaints about Coach Caldwell more than the ones cheering for a loss next weekend. The players, on the other hand, seem to think of our coach differently. While on the same video page from the link above, check out the thumbnail video titled "Caldwell postgame locker room speech."

That's a coach with no emotion, remember. That's a guy no one has respect for. He has no understanding of the game, command of the locker room, or any of the intangibles to inspire others. He's just a puppet.

I guess the player response in that video is more proof we need to lose on purpose, not only to concern ourselves with a non-factor QB, but also to get that guy in the circle fired.

As an aside, I am aware that everyone who types on the internet can have an opinion. But that doesn't mean everyone should type that opinion, or receive a pass for that blanket reason. These are human beings. They aren't products or services of a business. The brand is, sure, as is the memorabilia; they, on the other hand, are men. They play to win. They care about the guys who are there now. We support these guys because they are the ones driving the franchise we cheer for. We are not players, and I get that. We shouldn't think like a player, right? If that's true, then that also means we shouldn't decide what's best for the team they play for.

I won't call anyone a pretend fan for hoping we lose. But they know, as well as anyone with a shred of perception, that they are no better than the man they blame for pulling the players in 2009.

I don't think people are actually cheering for them to lose, but the number 1 pick is much more valuable then the number 2 pick. And yes that locker room speech was out of this world I think I counted 8 players up and watching, very Newt Rockney like!

[Jaric]

.

Why can't we just discuss football?

.

Sadly, some of us failed our fan purity test, so as punishment we have to sit outside the forum gates for all eternity wailing and gnashing our teeth while the pure of spirit discuss football.

/wail

/gnash

[IndyTrav]

And yes that locker room speech was out of this world I think I counted 8 players up and watching, very Newt Rockney like!

After reading this I went and re-watched....I counted 7 dressed players......the rest were all Khaki/Polo wearers, Irsay, and some cameramen. Lol.

[ruksak]

Sadly, some of us failed our fan purity test, so as punishment we have to sit outside the forum gates for all eternity wailing and gnashing our teeth while the pure of spirit discuss football.

/wail

/gnash

We're all fans, diverse and dynamic. Some of us are smart, some stupid. Some of us are mature, some are not. Some of us think games can be thrown, some know better. Some of us want them to lose to get the #1 pick, some of us want them to win to avoid the controversy.

You really let Doogey get under your skin. Man he jerked your strings something awful.

I've read Doogan's OP over and over, and I'm not seeing how or why so many were so deeply and personally offended by his remarks?

All he was saying is that the players give a ^chiz^ about winning, even if the fans do not.

[The Fish]

all right.. who has a birthday?

[Dave Williams]

I'm new here, and this is my first post, so I won't get into all the debate on who is a fan and who isn't. I believe we all want what's best for the team, we all see that there are needs, but differ greatly in how we feel those needs should be addressed. I still struggle with the idea that Luck is the answer. Wasn't Jamarcus Russel the greatest prospect since.....? And before that, wasn't Matt Leinart? There was even a large group who bemoaned the choice of Manning over Leaf. My point is this: Luck has a lot of tools, great potential, but we have a leader on this team who has shown himself to be everything people hope this kid could be. There is no question of tanking, the men on this team more than proved that last week, but should this game not turn out in our favor, I sincerely hope the team considers filling in the gaps we have now rather than mortgage our future on Luck and hope we get lucky. As a fan, either way I win. On the one hand, my team, has grown and developed over the course of a very difficult season and is now winning without the best player in the league and perhaps ever, how much better for next year when he returns? On the other hand, my team gets the number one draft pick, and a unique opportunity to rebuild for the future, or reload and compete right now with Manning at the helm. I fail to see a down side.

[Jaric]

We're all fans, diverse and dynamic. Some of us are smart, some stupid. Some of us are mature, some are not. Some of us think games can be thrown, some know better. Some of us want them to lose to get the #1 pick, some of us want them to win to avoid the controversy.

Well first off, the post you qouted was meant as a joke, although I'm concerned now it might not have come off that way.

As to the rest, the obsession with "fan purity" some have is one of my pet peeves. I also don't care for being called a hypocrite when I've done nothing hypocritical. I've offered to discuss this very issue with Doogan and he's avoided it at every turn. Which would be fine if he wouldn't continue to pretend as if he wants to, just that no one will induldge him.

So if it seems like I'm irritated that someone took the jelly out of my donut, that's why.

[-JJ-]

Well first off, the post you qouted was meant as a joke, although I'm concerned now it might not have come off that way.

As to the rest, the obsession with "fan purity" some have is one of my pet peeves. I also don't care for being called a hypocrite when I've done nothing hypocritical. I've offered to discuss this very issue with Doogan and he's avoided it at every turn. Which would be fine if he wouldn't continue to pretend as if he wants to, just that no one will induldge him.

So if it seems like I'm irritated that someone took the jelly out of my donut, that's why.

I know where you can get the jelly back.....head over to the Planet ..they have all kinds;-)

[Jaric]

I know where you can get the jelly back.....head over to the Planet ..they have all kinds;-)

If there is one thing the planet has in spades, it's jelly.

[-JJ-]

If there is one thing the planet has in spades, it's jelly.

LOL true enough

where's the jelly here..............

[ruksak]

Well first off, the post you qouted was meant as a joke, although I'm concerned now it might not have come off that way.

As to the rest, the obsession with "fan purity" some have is one of my pet peeves. I also don't care for being called a hypocrite when I've done nothing hypocritical. I've offered to discuss this very issue with Doogan and he's avoided it at every turn. Which would be fine if he wouldn't continue to pretend as if he wants to, just that no one will induldge him.

So if it seems like I'm irritated that someone took the jelly out of my donut, that's why.

I understand. This has been a divisive issue for all fans.

What there is to be happy about, more than anything, win or lose, Sunday evening at about 4pm eastern time, the Colts 2011 season will be over.

[Dave Williams]

As to the original post, I couldn't agree more, the players are here to compete and win football games, this is their entire job. I don't go to work with the intent of only meeting half of my production quota, why on earth would these guys ever come to a game not to win?What the coaches and FO decide to do with them, though, is out of their hands. I remember seeing the reactions of several of the starters when they were pulled from the Jets game a couple yeas ago when the decision was made to rest them. These guys are programmed to give their best every play, every game. There is no quit in them. I hope no fan would expect them to tank, and it has been stated time and again here that nobody is talking about tanking. I prefer to see my team win, no matter what, but that is just how I am. I get that some see a loss and the insured #1 pick as greater gain, and I'm fine with that. Doesn't make you less a fan, just different from me in how you support your team.

[Jaric]

I understand. This has been a divisive issue for all fans.

What there is to be happy about, more than anything, win or lose, Sunday evening at about 4pm eastern time, the Colts 2011 season will be over.

So you're saying that we are NOT going to make the playoffs?

[Dan]

So you're saying that we are NOT going to make the playoffs?

We might as well go all out for the win against Jags just in case.

[ruksak]

So you're saying that we are NOT going to make the playoffs?

I guarantee we make the playoffs.

Next year I guarantee we make the playoffs.

[NDKoltz]

Did anyone lsiten to the ^cowpatties^ report with Cousin Sal this week? They were inpressed by how hard the Colts played and believe the Colts will win this week, but the interesting idea he had was that the players don't care if they >>> up the first pick. He said the they played like they want and expect Peyton back.

I am just repeating (or paraphasing) what they said, don't know if I agree, but thought it was a point of view I had not heard yet.

Honestly.... you cant say BEE ESS report with out this thing auto edditing. I guess I should have changed it from the actual name to the Bill Simmons report.

[NDKoltz]

Oh yeah, I don't think anyone around me in the stadium the past 2 weeks did not want the colts to win. At least no one threw down there stuff in anger when Reggie made the catch.