So What Are All Thes Rumors About The Polians?

[mightisright]

I have in Kravit's article, on Dan Dokich today, and in several other threads, heard about the rumors of a "toxic environment" in the front office because of the Polians. Can anybody give me any specifics? Actual actions or things said? I've heard about the supposed choking of somebody on another team's staff. What else?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Two starting points

http://www.indystar....orough-cleaning

http://blogs.indysta...ibility-is-key/

3rd party view

http://www.stampedeb...ldwells-fate-in

Outside of that, a lot of fans are happy with the front office because some of the off the wall comments that get close to some level of insanity that have been spewed this year.

The alleged choking I believe was years ago vs. the Jets(I'm not talking about the 2009 bend over for the Jets)...

[Robin]

What is wrong with the Polians?

other then not going for perfect season, and not firing Caldwell?

not getting alot of news over here

[21isSuperman]

What is wrong with the Polians?

other then not going for perfect season, and not firing Caldwell?

not getting alot of news over here

Some say (and I don't know how reliable these reports are) that Polian has been sticking his nose into every aspect of the team. He won't let the coordinators do what they want to (Coyer said he wasn't able to run his defense the way he wanted) and he has let players go that many feel shouldn't have been let go (like Tryon)

[mightisright]

yeah, read the articles and all I get is that there are "rumors" of a toxic environment under them and of course the way BP treats fans on his show. He's arrogant and condescending, I get it. And I can't listen to his show anymore without getting hacked off about something he says.

BUT I wanted to know if you all had heard anything more than that.

[presto123]

Plus he will not give up control so it will be near impossible to get a good coach to come here. Polian doesn't even let Caldwell in on all the decisions he's making.

[Larry Horseman]

The whole "toxic" thing started with a Kravitz article in early November (http://www.indystar.com/article/20111106/SPORTS15/111060364/Kravitz-Who-s-blame-0-8-Colts-Chris-Polian-one?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com). I think you have to have a subscription to read it in full. The gist is that ex Colts front office people said Chris was toxic. Kravitz didn't name any sources. That lead to Bill's sewer rats comments.

Dig around Stampede Blue and sift through the bias and you will be able to become pretty informed.

[Superman]

yeah, read the articles and all I get is that there are "rumors" of a toxic environment under them and of course the way BP treats fans on his show. He's arrogant and condescending, I get it. And I can't listen to his show anymore without getting hacked off about something he says.

BUT I wanted to know if you all had heard anything more than that.

All of that may be true. None of that necessarily means that he's not a good GM.

[mightisright]

Surprise surprise that any son of BP's could be toxic? If he treats his son the same way he comes across on the radio show then....

[deedub75]

If there's smoke then there's fire so there has to be some truth about rumblings in the front office. Also, no one knows who is really in charge because Chris is supposed to be the GM, but Bill is always the one speaking on behalf of the team and always seems to refer to organizational decisions as "his" decisions or what he thinks or wants. We all know how arrogant, controlling and condescending that Bill is so would it really be a stretch for him to treat his employees badly?

[Robin]

Some say (and I don't know how reliable these reports are) that Polian has been sticking his nose into every aspect of the team. He won't let the coordinators do what they want to (Coyer said he wasn't able to run his defense the way he wanted) and he has let players go that many feel shouldn't have been let go (like Tryon)

Okai Thanks for your respond.

If its true I hope they're gone soon.

[mightisright]

That's my big beef with the Polians. Nobody knows who's in charge and they all seem to be working at cross purposes. The team needs one voice and it clearly isn't Caldwell's. I agree with the Kravitz article in that Caldwell has had a lot of crap to surmount the last two years. They haven't given him enough talent, control to make his own mistakes, or information. I feel bad for the guy. That said, I'm still not sure he's the best coach for this team.

[21isSuperman]

Okai Thanks for your respond.

If its true I hope they're gone soon.

I personally like the Polians, I think they've done a solid job. But if these reports are true, then maybe it's time for them to leave. If you ask me, Polian's best ability is scouting/drafting. He should stick to scouting, drafting, trading, dealing with contracts, etc. and leave the gameplanning stuff to the coordinators and coaches

[Robin]

I personally like the Polians, I think they've done a solid job. But if these reports are true, then maybe it's time for them to leave. If you ask me, Polian's best ability is scouting/drafting. He should stick to scouting, drafting, trading, dealing with contracts, etc. and leave the gameplanning stuff to the coordinators and coaches

couldn't agree more

[deedub75]

That's my big beef with the Polians. Nobody knows who's in charge and they all seem to be working at cross purposes. The team needs one voice and it clearly isn't Caldwell's. I agree with the Kravitz article in that Caldwell has had a lot of crap to surmount the last two years. They haven't given him enough talent, control to make his own mistakes, or information. I feel bad for the guy. That said, I'm still not sure he's the best coach for this team.

LOL! Who told Caldwell that Peyton wasn't going to practice and basically be shut down for the remainder of the season? Bill seemed to be ticked when it was brought to his attention.

[mightisright]

LOL! Who told Caldwell that Peyton wasn't going to practice and basically be shut down for the remainder of the season? Bill seemed to be ticked when it was brought to his attention.

What I don't get was why Bill was ticked about that. Why would Peyton practice if he's not going to play? It would just take reps away from qbs that clearly need it. Seemed like a no brainer to me. He was mad that Caldwell told the press? That would get out soon enough anyway. Mad that the decision was made without him? I doubt it, but even if that were the case, it's no big deal. So just mad at the world in general? okay.....

[jedi.creech]

Okay I got one question, I do NOT know how tweet works, but obviously our owner is on it, and has a few followers... If he's on there tweeting away, can we not start blowing up his tweets to ask him these questions about the Polians? If he gets hit with a couple thousand tweets a day hard to look over that? Again maybe tweet is not designed that way I am not on Tweeter so not sure. Was just wondering.

[mightisright]

don't know, cause I'm not on twitter, but I'd try it if there were a concerted effort....

[doogansquest]

I personally like the Polians, I think they've done a solid job. But if these reports are true, then maybe it's time for them to leave. If you ask me, Polian's best ability is scouting/drafting. He should stick to scouting, drafting, trading, dealing with contracts, etc. and leave the gameplanning stuff to the coordinators and coaches

That is pretty much how the job description is supposed to fit.

It's difficult to say what qualities Caldwell has as a coach. We really haven't seen Jim Caldwell do anything, in my opinion. We have no idea how responsible he was for the Super Bowl year (or the loss within the game); last year's 4-game turnaround, followed by the weirdest flop to end a playoff game ever (kick coverage, timeout); or this year's mess, followed by a great team effort against Tennessee.

[Thewholefnshow28]

What I don't get was why Bill was ticked about that. Why would Peyton practice if he's not going to play? It would just take reps away from qbs that clearly need it. Seemed like a no brainer to me. He was mad that Caldwell told the press? That would get out soon enough anyway. Mad that the decision was made without him? I doubt it, but even if that were the case, it's no big deal. So just mad at the world in general? okay.....

Yeah I do not get why Bill reacted the way he did to Kravitz's question unless Polian thought Manning was going to take practice reps and continue to practice with the team. Did Caldwell make that decision on his own and tell the media and Polian is mad he made that decision without consulting him? His reaction makes no sense considering it was a reasonable question for Kravitz to ask.

Caldwell had no clue that we even signed Collins at the beginning of the year so I think there are some severe communication problems going on up at 56th street.

If Polian is sticking his nose into the business of the coordinators then he should be told to back off and let them do their job. I believe Coyer was limited by either Caldwell or the front office because he never played such a soft defense in Denver. Polian's job is to find the players to fit the coordinators system not try to force the system on the coordinator.

I think a lot of the same stuff happened in prior seasons but everyone is happy when we are winning. When this team falls completely apart then everything is shown.

[21isSuperman]

That is pretty much how the job description is supposed to fit.

It's difficult to say what qualities Caldwell has as a coach. We really haven't seen Jim Caldwell do anything, in my opinion. We have no idea how responsible he was for the Super Bowl year (or the loss within the game); last year's 4-game turnaround, followed by the weirdest flop to end a playoff game ever (kick coverage, timeout); or this year's mess, followed by a great team effort against Tennessee.

Agree 100%

[Larry Horseman]

Okay I got one question, I do NOT know how tweet works, but obviously our owner is on it, and has a few followers... If he's on there tweeting away, can we not start blowing up his tweets to ask him these questions about the Polians? If he gets hit with a couple thousand tweets a day hard to look over that? Again maybe tweet is not designed that way I am not on Tweeter so not sure. Was just wondering.

Don't worry, people are already doing this...

That's my big beef with the Polians. Nobody knows who's in charge and they all seem to be working at cross purposes. The team needs one voice and it clearly isn't Caldwell's. I agree with the Kravitz article in that Caldwell has had a lot of crap to surmount the last two years. They haven't given him enough talent, control to make his own mistakes, or information. I feel bad for the guy. That said, I'm still not sure he's the best coach for this team.

Exactly. I said something similar in another thread regarding the relationship between Caldwell and the Polians. The Polians should let Caldwell (or whoever the coach is) be the mouthpiece. The reason (aside from his flaws as a coach) the fans and media think Caldwell is completely emotionless, useless, and out of the loop is because, I believe, Bill tells him not to ever say anything. It's not that Caldwell doesn't know what's going on, and we have no ideas how much of a say he has in what's going on, it's that Bill wants to control everything that comes out to the media.

What I don't get was why Bill was ticked about that. Why would Peyton practice if he's not going to play? It would just take reps away from qbs that clearly need it. Seemed like a no brainer to me. He was mad that Caldwell told the press? That would get out soon enough anyway. Mad that the decision was made without him? I doubt it, but even if that were the case, it's no big deal. So just mad at the world in general? okay.....

It is because he didn't tell the media, so he assumed they didn't know or dug it up from someone else. I think this points to the fact that he is controlling and maybe also shows that Caldwell is starting to fight that a little? Maybe?

[mightisright]

Thanks for all the posts guys! I just wish we had more info on who does what, who's really in charge of what.

Then we'd know who to blame for it!

[Superman]

What I don't get was why Bill was ticked about that. Why would Peyton practice if he's not going to play? It would just take reps away from qbs that clearly need it. Seemed like a no brainer to me. He was mad that Caldwell told the press? That would get out soon enough anyway. Mad that the decision was made without him? I doubt it, but even if that were the case, it's no big deal. So just mad at the world in general? okay.....

I got the impression that he was trying to shut down the NFL Network rumors that Manning might play tonight.

[BmoreColt]

I am ready for a new regime in Indy! It's ironic to me how most fans do not want a outspoken garish coach, who is strong minded, but that is exactlly what the Colts need. Polian has many garish characteristics about him, and wants total control of this organization, we all think Caldwell is a puppet, which no doubt he is, and I want him gone too, but Polian seems to be the owner of this team minus the title! How he contradicts himself, and states the obvious after failing to address it through free agency or the draft, it is really time to rid Indy of the Polians. I just hope the reports are true about their being a feud between he and Manning, and it comes to the point where Irsay has to choose! Bring in De Costa from the Ravens or Ross from NY Giants, these guys are hungry for the opportunity to be a GM, both would bring compitent coaches, De Costa probably Billick, Ross could bring Spags at least to be a DC, the talent on both of those teams is enough to intrigue me with the possibilities. Think of how sick the Ravens defense is but how they draft talent offensively to keep them in the big picture come playoff time. These guys find talent, and personally I think they would both consider trading the Luck pick if Manning was healthy and ready to roll. I just hope the Polian regime and all aspects of it are gone after this season!

[buccolts]

Yeah I do not get why Bill reacted the way he did to Kravitz's question unless Polian thought Manning was going to take practice reps and continue to practice with the team. Did Caldwell make that decision on his own and tell the media and Polian is mad he made that decision without consulting him? His reaction makes no sense considering it was a reasonable question for Kravitz to ask.

Caldwell had no clue that we even signed Collins at the beginning of the year so I think there are some severe communication problems going on up at 56th street.

If Polian is sticking his nose into the business of the coordinators then he should be told to back off and let them do their job. I believe Coyer was limited by either Caldwell or the front office because he never played such a soft defense in Denver. Polian's job is to find the players to fit the coordinators system not try to force the system on the coordinator.

I think a lot of the same stuff happened in prior seasons but everyone is happy when we are winning. When this team falls completely apart then everything is shown.

If what we suspect is true, then why did Polian hire (or allow the hiring of) Coyer?

You can see pretty much the same thing going on here in Chicago with Martz.

They hire a pass happy guy, don't bring in any decent receivers to run Martz's system.

Tell him to run the ball, because that's what the Bears do.

Makes no sense.

[buccolts]

Do we have any info on what lead to Polian's parting of ways with the Bills & Panthers?

[mightisright]

Good question! I would LOVE to know what happened there.....

[horseshoepower]

Why doesn't Bill Polian make himself head coach? If the players don't listen to him, they can play prerecorded 2006 Tony Dungy praise when they win, and when they lose he can have a 2001 video feed of Jim Mora telling them how terrible they are. Think what would have happened had he drafted Ryan Leaf or Andre Wadsworth in 1998.

[horseshoepower]

He was fired by Ralph Wilson 2-4-93 because of personal problems with treasurer Jeff Littmann.

[Larry Horseman]

He was fired by Ralph Wilson 2-4-93 because of personal problems with treasurer Jeff Littmann.

I new he had some sort of issue with other front office staff and that is why he got canned at Buffalo.

Polian left Carolina on his own will...the rumor is that one reason he opted to leave Carolina for Indy was because Richardson made his son the team president, which gave him more power than Polian.

[NM_Colts]

I new he had some sort of issue with other front office staff and that is why he got canned at Buffalo.

Polian left Carolina on his own will...the rumor is that one reason he opted to leave Carolina for Indy was because Richardson made his son the team president, which gave him more power than Polian.

! What's happened this season isn't a very positive reflection on someone who seems to want to run the whole show, is it.

[GoColts8818]

Do we have any info on what lead to Polian's parting of ways with the Bills & Panthers?

The Bills he had a falling out with someone who was the team Treasuer and they have gone out of their way to say it had nothing to do with the team performances on the field.

The Panthers we were willing to pay more money and give up a third round pick to get him.

Make no mistake Polian is a jerk but you know what a lot of successful people in life and business are jerks and cold hearted, even in the NFL no one is going to mistake BB for a saint anytime in the near future. If I knew Polian personally I probably wouldn't like him very much but I am not exactly looking for a best friend when I am judging who is and isn't a good NFL GM.

[Thewholefnshow28]

If what we suspect is true, then why did Polian hire (or allow the hiring of) Coyer? You can see pretty much the same thing going on here in Chicago with Martz. They hire a pass happy guy, don't bring in any decent receivers to run Martz's system. Tell him to run the ball, because that's what the Bears do. Makes no sense.

That is what has baffled me the whole entire time Coyer has been here. We knew Coyer ran an aggressive defense in Denver and it just did not make sense to bring him and try to force a system that is more of a prevent defense. Would you bring in Wade Phillips and try to make him play the cover 2? Of course you would not. You would start drafting 3-4 guys to fit his scheme.

The moment Coyer stepped into that building one of Polians job should have been to get the guys Coyer needed not say Coyer this is the defense you need to play.

That alone is a huge red flag that Irsay needs to deal with.

[IndyTrav]

The Bills he had a falling out with someone who was the team Treasuer and they have gone out of their way to say it had nothing to do with the team performances on the field.

This is something I think we all ignore. As you said they 'went out of there way to say it had nothing to do with the teams performances' is a VERY VERY telling quote.

He was so hard to deal with/work with that even though he was successful and brought quality players, the team still did not want him around.....I'm not sure I can think of another professional sporting instance when a team says 'your really good, but not worth the headache'.Haynesworth maybe?!

[LouisBFree]

I’ve read this forum for many years, but never registered as I didn’t believe that I had much to add to the mix. Distressed businesses are something that I do know a bit about as I have worked for a large management consulting firm for more than twenty years. I focus on organization analysis for companies that need to be turned around.

My experience has been that if you ask enough “whys”, and follow the trail to the root of why businesses struggle you inevitably get to poor communication as the root cause. Lack of internal communication, poor external communication, no two-way communication and ignoring dissenting views will kill a business over the long run. Surprisingly, significant, ongoing success of an enterprise is often a communication killer. Managers of successful organizations tend to ignore external inputs because they believe they have nothing to learn from the outside. They also tend to provide less information and seek less input internally as their success breeds complacency. The staff may become increasingly bitter, but tend to keep quite since they don’t feel empowered to question, or criticize a successful organization. When the stuff hits the fan (0-13) the management team tends to become increasingly insular, just the opposite of what they should do, and the stakeholder bitterness increases exponentially.

That communication deficit model seems to be exactly what the Colts organization has been suffering from. Success masked it. Now, as the lake is drained the rocks are exposed.

Can the communication problem be fixed? Sure. One solution is for the management team to be let go. In industry sometimes that solution works well, many times it is a major failure. Canning a formerly successful management team often amounts to throwing out the baby with the bath water. The communication problem can be fixed with existing management in place, but it requires a significant emotional event to drive a fundamental change in management’s mindset. Someone needs to get the Polians, Irsay, and the “C” level executive types in a room and beat them mercilessly with the unvarnished truth of the organizations shortcomings, and their personal shortcoming. There are mechanisms by which to do such things, with the outcome being a communication model that each management team member literally stands up and takes an oath to support. Not pleasant, and extremely emotional, but absolutely necessary to turn management, and the organization, around.

If you don’t believe that communication is the likely root of the Colts problems read case studies on failures in companies as diverse as Nasa (shuttle), Apple (1980's), Enron, and Bear Stearns.

Thanks for letting me join in.

[BmoreColt]

I’ve read this forum for many years, but never registered as I didn’t believe that I had much to add to the mix. Distressed businesses are something that I do know a bit about as I have worked for a large management consulting firm for more than twenty years. I focus on organization analysis for companies that need to be turned around.

My experience has been that if you ask enough “whys”, and follow the trail to the root of why businesses struggle you inevitably get to poor communication as the root cause. Lack of internal communication, poor external communication, no two-way communication and ignoring dissenting views will kill a business over the long run. Surprisingly, significant, ongoing success of an enterprise is often a communication killer. Managers of successful organizations tend to ignore external inputs because they believe they have nothing to learn from the outside. They also tend to provide less information and seek less input internally as their success breeds complacency. The staff may become increasingly bitter, but tend to keep quite since they don’t feel empowered to question, or criticize a successful organization. When the stuff hits the fan (0-13) the management team tends to become increasingly insular, just the opposite of what they should do, and the stakeholder bitterness increases exponentially.

That communication deficit model seems to be exactly what the Colts organization has been suffering from. Success masked it. Now, as the lake is drained the rocks are exposed.

Can the communication problem be fixed? Sure. One solution is for the management team to be let go. In industry sometimes that solution works well, many times it is a major failure. Canning a formerly successful management team often amounts to throwing out the baby with the bath water. The communication problem can be fixed with existing management in place, but it requires a significant emotional event to drive a fundamental change in management’s mindset. Someone needs to get the Polians, Irsay, and the “C” level executive types in a room and beat them mercilessly with the unvarnished truth of the organizations shortcomings, and their personal shortcoming. There are mechanisms by which to do such things, with the outcome being a communication model that each management team member literally stands up and takes an oath to support. Not pleasant, and extremely emotional, but absolutely necessary to turn management, and the organization, around.

If you don’t believe that communication is the likely root of the Colts problems read case studies on failures in companies as diverse as Nasa (shuttle), Apple (1980's), Enron, and Bear Stearns.

Thanks for letting me join in.

Well I do not see any type of intervention taking place, can you see Caldwell standing up and actually showing emotion. I think its a good analysis you have here, there is obviously communication problems within the organization and football is a business afterall. Therefore I think the Colts would be better suited to get rid of upper management i.e. the Polian family!