Big ben gets new deal

[ColtsBlueFL]

For those still blind to Big Ben, here's an article that presents some interesting facts...

 

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/11/08/pittsburgh-steelers-ben-roesthlisberger-forgotten-elite-quarterback/18718681/

 

Bruce Arians is happy Ben is getting recognition more and more these days.

 

Here's an interesting comp for all QB's rating for their careers...

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

[Surge89]

 

 

Apparently you haven't seen Luck's offensive live (very offensive) his entire career this far. 

 

Plus we had Trent Richardson in the backfield.

 

With those two facts, I didn't read the rest of your post after the bold part. 

 

 

 

 

Luck > Rothlesburgereater 

 

You apparently haven't watch the Steelers before Pouncey and De'Castro (and most importantly Munchak).  Ben had a FAR WORSE oline than Luck has ever had.  It isn't even close.  Not only were they not talented but they ran schemes that were painful to watch before Munchak and Haley came in.  You apparently have no clue about the Steelers team of 5 or so years ago so why even post as if you do know?

 

There were literally 6 or 7 games in a row where Ben was sacked before his 2nd step.  And that was with no one as his weapons.  Before Brown and Bell.

 

Also Luck's oline has had plenty of talent.  Still does.  It is just the scheme that often leaves him unprotected and/or is unwillingness to give up on a play.

[Surge89]

For those still blind to Big Ben, here's an article that presents some interesting facts...

 

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/11/08/pittsburgh-steelers-ben-roesthlisberger-forgotten-elite-quarterback/18718681/

 

Bruce Arians is happy Ben is getting recognition more and more these days.

 

Here's an interesting comp for all QB's rating for their careers...

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

 

First impressions will always have Ben in the cellar.  What most haven't seen is that Haley has transformed him into an elite pocket passer with the ability to scramble for days.

[ColtsBlueFL]

First impressions will always have Ben in the cellar.  What most haven't seen is that Haley has transformed him into an elite pocket passer with the ability to scramble for days.

 

Last year he tore our D to shreds. He and Brady are just two of what Peter King refers to stopping elite offenses.

[lollygagger8]

Careful, you point out Luck's shortcomings around here and you'll get crucified in a heartbeat.

When he has a bad game, its always dropped passed, the o line, or RBs fault.

Fall in line and call Luck the greatest QB to ever play the game. We would win a single game without him, and hes the only NFL caliber player on our offense...for real son.

[lollygagger8]

Last year he tore our D to shreds. He and Brady are just two of what Peter King refers to stopping elite offenses.

 

Didn't Vontae go out that game, and for some genius reason we put Toler on opposite side of field? 

 

 

Or am I thinking of a different game? 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Didn't Vontae go out that game, and for some genius reason we put Toler on opposite side of field? 

 

 

Or am I thinking of a different game? 

 

Yeah, Davis left the game with a knee injury at some point in first quarter, and Gordy filled in for him (They keep Butler on the slot guy). Doesn't matter, Butler was burned a lot too.  I remember a 52 yard bomb over Butler and before Adams could slide over to Bryant. And Miller schooling Werner in the Red zone, and lots of others.  Having Vontae may have made our comeback a little more easy and exciting though. But Big Ben had our number that day.

[csmopar]

No team stays competitive forever. Ben has been the constant there now for over 10 years. But my main point was about his first few seasons. Not sure how anyone can claim Luck has had a better start to his career than Ben.

 

 

Unless they cheat...*cough cough* *Pats....

[oldunclemark]

ben is a good QB but hes never been mentioned as one of the best.

If you name your top-10, Ben is in there, isn't he?

[crazycolt1]

No team stays competitive forever. Ben has been the constant there now for over 10 years. But my main point was about his first few seasons. Not sure how anyone can claim Luck has had a better start to his career than Ben.

So did Ben start with a whole new team with 48 new players out of the 53 man roster? Did Luck have a top 2 defense and a great running game to complement him? How many pro bowl players were on the Steelers when Ben took over compared to Luck? I don't see where you can say Ben was a better QB in his first 3 years. The rings are won by a team not just the QB.

[crazycolt1]

Pardon me for bumping an old topic, but you're aware that the Steelers had only 58 rushing yards and 2.2 YPC in Super Bowl XLIII, right? In fact, the Steelers ranked in the bottom 10 in rushing yards and the bottom five in YPC during the 2008 season. If that's supposed to be a great running game, then I'd hate to see what a mediocre running game looks like.

 

As for the defense, awesome; that's about all Roethlisberger had for half a decade. His offensive line sucked until about a season and a half ago. And after Willie Parker broke his ankle in 2007, the Steelers didn't have another worthwhile RB until they drafted Le'Veon Bell. Rashard Mendenhall doesn't count either; there's a reason why the Steelers told him to get lost, and why only one team offered him a contract afterward. And the WRs as a whole were overrated too, considering a) Santonio Holmes and Mike Wallace don't have a single 1,000-yard receiving season without Roethlisberger throwing them the ball, and b) Hines Ward was past his prime by the time Antonio Brown arrived. So yeah, thank God for the defense. Without it, Roethlisberger would have had almost nothing. The reason why the Steelers had back-to-back 8-8 seasons is because the offense had to be blown up and rebuilt, and the defense declined before the rebuilt offense came together.

 

As for Andrew Luck, no, he's not better than Roethlisberger until he learns how to take care of the ball better. He had 16 INTs last season, which is essentially an INT per game, and he had 13 fumbles, which is more than any other QB in the NFL. That's 29 breaches in ball security last season, which is too damn many for an "elite" QB. That's almost two per game. If Roethlisberger lost the ball at that rate, he'd be crucified upside-down. Luck's eight extra TD passes last season are wiped out by his seven extra INTs and four extra fumbles. I'm sure Luck will be great in the future, but people need to pump the brakes until he's not so careless with the ball.

Is that why Luck owns just about every record known for a 3 year starter? He shattered the rookie records his first year. If you are going to bring up negatives about Luck and Ben how about Bens sacks? How about his holding the ball way too long causing those sacks? You can nit pick any stat you care to but IMO Luck has been the best rookie QB in the history of the NFL and his records speak for themselves.

[amfootball]

So did Ben start with a whole new team with 48 new players out of the 53 man roster? Did Luck have a top 2 defense and a great running game to complement him? How many pro bowl players were on the Steelers when Ben took over compared to Luck? I don't see where you can say Ben was a better QB in his first 3 years. The rings are won by a team not just the QB.

The Steelers were 6-10 the year before Ben took over. In his rookie year he took over when the team was 1-1 and then went 13-1 before losing to the Pats in the AFCCG. The next year he won the Super Bowl as the sixth seed. You can chalk the success up to teams as people so often like to do but we all know the QB is the most instrumental position on a teams success. Like I said, the start to his career was second only to Brady.

[ColtsBlueFL]

The Steelers were 6-10 the year before Ben took over. In his rookie year he took over when the team was 1-1 and then went 13-1 before losing to the Pats in the AFCCG. The next year he won the Super Bowl as the sixth seed. You can chalk the success up to teams as people so often like to do but we all know the QB is the most instrumental position on a teams success. Like I said, the start to his career was second only to Brady.

 

Actually, to clarify, Big Ben took over for Tommy Maddox after game 2, and went 13-0 in the regular season.  He beat the Jets in playoffs before losing to the Pats in the AFCCG that year, but he did end the Patriots 21 game winning streak in week 8.  So Ben was actually 14-1 in 2004 including his loss to the Patriots that year. Big Ben also won his next 2 regular season games in 2005, losing to the Pats again in week 3.  That means Big Ben went 15-1 in his first 16 regular season games, and had a ring by the end of season 2.

 

In other news, Ben was THE reason they even got to the Superbowl in 2005 with the Immaculate Redemption ( the Tackle II ), and not the Colts.  This is still hard to watch because we didn't finish the job ( wide right Vanderjagt!  Ughhh... ) after the tackle II, but the Steelers truly did have the game wrapped up until Gary Brackett put his hat on the ball near the goal line,

 

 

 

And frankly, Cowher had handcuffs on him early in his career (probably a good thing overall), and Ben is so much better now than then.

[lollygagger8]

Yeah, Davis left the game with a knee injury at some point in first quarter, and Gordy filled in for him (They keep Butler on the slot guy). Doesn't matter, Butler was burned a lot too.  I remember a 52 yard bomb over Butler and before Adams could slide over to Bryant. And Miller schooling Werner in the Red zone, and lots of others.  Having Vontae may have made our comeback a little more easy and exciting though. But Big Ben had our number that day.

 

Ya that was an absolutely horribly insane decision by our coaching staff to move Toler to the opposite side of the field. He looked totally lost.

 

Of course Fat Ben had our number when our #1 CB goes out, and we move #2 to somewhere he never plays and then have our #4 CB come in. 

 

And Werner is Werner.  

[dgambill]

Actually, to clarify, Big Ben took over for Tommy Maddox after game 2, and went 13-0 in the regular season.  He beat the Jets in playoffs before losing to the Pats in the AFCCG that year, but he did end the Patriots 21 game winning streak in week 8.  So Ben was actually 14-1 in 2004 including his loss to the Patriots that year. Big Ben also won his next 2 regular season games in 2004, losing to the Pats again in week 3.  That means Big Ben went 15-1 in his first 16 regular season games, and had a ring by the end of season 2.

 

In other news, Ben was THE reason they even got to the Superbowl in 2005 with the Immaculate Redemption ( the Tackle II ), and not the Colts.  This is still hard to watch because we didn't finish the job ( wide right Vanderjagt!  Ughhh... ) after the tackle II, but the Steelers truly did have the game wrapped up until Gary Brackett put his hat on the ball near the goal line,

 

 

 

And frankly, Cowher had handcuffs on him early in his career (probably a good thing overall), and Ben is so much better now than then.

Yes that tackle was SB caliber...his play in the SB was probably the worst I've ever seen...even for a losing qb. The only thing right he did that day was not blow chunks on the field. Randle El actually did a better job qbing then Ben. That all said...he was a BIG reason they beat the Cardinals and played good against GB too. He has definately earned that contract (especially after last season). The guy is a warrior on the field...hard to bring down and carried that team on offense for many years. If anything Luck reminds me of Big Ben. I do think Luck has a higher ceiling but as of right now. Ben is a top 5 caliber qb...that was a great draft class with Phillip, Ben, and Eli...and Ben has been the best of all 3.

[Gnutella0]

Ya that was an absolutely horribly insane decision by our coaching staff to move Toler to the opposite side of the field. He looked totally lost.

 

Of course Fat Ben had our number when our #1 CB goes out, and we move #2 to somewhere he never plays and then have our #4 CB come in. 

 

And Werner is Werner.

 

Honestly, that just sounds like excuse-making. If it's so easy to throw for 500 yards in a game, then why has it only ever been done 16 times in NFL history? And why is Roethlisberger the only one ever to do it more than once? Hell, Warren Moon was the only other QB to defeat a playoff team in his 500-yard game, and Roethlisberger defeated playoff teams in both of his. Y.A. Tittle is the only other QB to throw at least six TD passes in his 500-yard game. For that matter, Tittle and Moon are the only other QBs not to turn the ball over in their 500-yard games, and Roethlisberger didn't turn the ball over in either of his.

 

I'm sorry that the Colts lost Vontae Davis that game, but * happens sometimes. Back in 2007, the Steelers were down Troy Polamalu and Ryan Clark when they played the juggernaut Patriots, and they lost Aaron Smith early in the game to boot, but even then, Tom Brady threw for "only" 399 yards and four TDs that game despite facing a defense missing three key players. Ultimately, I don't think Vontae Davis's absence made a whole lot of difference in the game last season because Roethlisberger threw more TD passes than uncatchable passes that game. (The WRs dropped some of his passes, including Martavis Bryant dropping one with nobody between him and the end zone that could have gotten Roethlisberger a seventh TD pass and the single-game passing yards record.)

 

And I'm not trying to rub that game in, but it does seem like a slap in the face that people either ignore or try to qualify what Roethlisberger did, and not just Colts fans either. If it were Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck, etc. who did what Roethlisberger did, football fans and the media would have kissed their * for the remainder of the season. Instead, it just seems to be forgotten by most people who aren't fans of the Steelers or Colts. It's the same way Super Bowl XL is somehow the only playoff game of his that matters even though he played great in the AFC bracket that post-season, and also played a critical role in winning Super Bowl XLIII, for that matter. It's like saying the view of the forest is ugly because of a dead tree. Stuff like this is why I believe Roethlisberger has been underrated for his entire career.

[lollygagger8]

Honestly, that just sounds like excuse-making. If it's so easy to throw for 500 yards in a game, then why has it only ever been done 16 times in NFL history? And why is Roethlisberger the only one ever to do it more than once? Hell, Warren Moon was the only other QB to defeat a playoff team in his 500-yard game, and Roethlisberger defeated playoff teams in both of his. Y.A. Tittle is the only other QB to throw at least six TD passes in his 500-yard game. For that matter, Tittle and Moon are the only other QBs not to turn the ball over in their 500-yard games, and Roethlisberger didn't turn the ball over in either of his.

 

I'm sorry that the Colts lost Vontae Davis that game, but * happens sometimes. Back in 2007, the Steelers were down Troy Polamalu and Ryan Clark when they played the juggernaut Patriots, and they lost Aaron Smith early in the game to boot, but even then, Tom Brady threw for "only" 399 yards and four TDs that game despite facing a defense missing three key players. Ultimately, I don't think Vontae Davis's absence made a whole lot of difference in the game last season because Roethlisberger threw more TD passes than uncatchable passes that game. (The WRs dropped some of his passes, including Martavis Bryant dropping one with nobody between him and the end zone that could have gotten Roethlisberger a seventh TD pass and the single-game passing yards record.)

 

And I'm not trying to rub that game in, but it does seem like a slap in the face that people either ignore or try to qualify what Roethlisberger did, and not just Colts fans either. If it were Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck, etc. who did what Roethlisberger did, football fans and the media would have kissed their * for the remainder of the season. Instead, it just seems to be forgotten by most people who aren't fans of the Steelers or Colts. It's the same way Super Bowl XL is somehow the only playoff game of his that matters even though he played great in the AFC bracket that post-season, and also played a critical role in winning Super Bowl XLIII, for that matter. It's like saying the view of the forest is ugly because of a dead tree. Stuff like this is why I believe Roethlisberger has been underrated for his entire career.

 

Great question......especially by a big fat guy that corners girls in the bathroom. 

 

 

Wasn't making excuses btw. We got obliterated a few times last year. See you on 12/6

 

 

P.S. Nutella is disgusting. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

So did Ben start with a whole new team with 48 new players out of the 53 man roster? Did Luck have a top 2 defense and a great running game to complement him? How many pro bowl players were on the Steelers when Ben took over compared to Luck? I don't see where you can say Ben was a better QB in his first 3 years. The rings are won by a team not just the QB.

 

The point you are making here is valid, but for credibility sake, the true number was 36 new on the 53, if my records are correct. they would be- P. Angerer,  A. Bethea, D. Brown, D. Carter, A. Collie, K. Conner, D. Freeney, J. Hughes, Antonio Johnson, J. Lefeged, P. McAfee, R. Mathis, R. Matthews, F. Moala, J. Powers, A. Vinatieri, and R. Wayne.

 

Now of those 17, only 3, I believe only Mathis, McAfee, and Vinatieri are left. So we are now at 50 of the 53 replaced after 3 years.

[Superman]

The point you are making here is valid, but for credibility sake, the true number was 36 new on the 53, if my records are correct. they would be- P. Angerer,  A. Bethea, D. Brown, D. Carter, A. Collie, K. Conner, D. Freeney, J. Hughes, Antonio Johnson, J. Lefeged, P. McAfee, R. Mathis, R. Matthews, F. Moala, J. Powers, A. Vinatieri, and R. Wayne.

 

Now of those 17, only 3, I believe only Mathis, McAfee, and Vinatieri are left. So we are now at 50 of the 53 replaced after 3 years.

 

You missed Reitz and AC, but you're right on point.

[crazycolt1]

The point you are making here is valid, but for credibility sake, the true number was 36 new on the 53, if my records are correct. they would be- P. Angerer,  A. Bethea, D. Brown, D. Carter, A. Collie, K. Conner, D. Freeney, J. Hughes, Antonio Johnson, J. Lefeged, P. McAfee, R. Mathis, R. Matthews, F. Moala, J. Powers, A. Vinatieri, and R. Wayne.

 

Now of those 17, only 3, I believe only Mathis, McAfee, and Vinatieri are left. So we are now at 50 of the 53 replaced after 3 years.

True enough but how many of those players were gone after the first season? I know I was being sarcastic in my comment but the jest of it was valid as you pointed out. Ben or no other top QB has started with less than Luck but that don't enter the minds of those who think Luck is not elite. Some say Luck's turnover rate is too high for him to be considered elite. Turnovers come from having to do too much on your own plus all new QBs struggle with the speed of the defenders at the pro level. Way too many fail to give any credit to a defender who makes good plays and would rather lay blame on the QBs. We both know that but some seem to dwell on the negatives rather than anything positive. As many in this forum have been watching the NFL for many years IMO Luck is the best rookie QB I have ever seen including Manning.

[ColtsBlueFL]

You missed Reitz and AC, but you're right on point.

 

Good catch. So that makes 34, of which 5 are still here.  Thanks!

 

Still, I wonder how many other teams have ever turned over so many players, and were consistent winners after doing so...

 

And makes it 48 gone after 3 years, which is where I think the OP got his original number.

[Jason_]

No team stays competitive forever. Ben has been the constant there now for over 10 years. But my main point was about his first few seasons. Not sure how anyone can claim Luck has had a better start to his career than Ben.

 

Well, as is commonly the case, you either completely misread what was typed or you intentionally changed the point you wanted to refute just so you'd have the opportunity to refute it.

 

No one said Luck has had a better start to his career than Ben. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Well, as is commonly the case, you either completely misread what was typed or you intentionally changed the point you wanted to refute just so you'd have the opportunity to refute it.

 

No one said Luck has had a better start to his career than Ben. 

Can we hire Lance Stephenson to blow down peoples Straw Men before they are built?

 

[amfootball]

Well, as is commonly the case, you either completely misread what was typed or you intentionally changed the point you wanted to refute just so you'd have the opportunity to refute it.

 

No one said Luck has had a better start to his career than Ben. 

?????

 

I was responding to this post:

 

coltsrule91, on 14 Mar 2015 - 2:24 PM, said:

luck is closer to elite status in just three seasons then ben has ever been in his entire career

[ColtsBlueFL]

Posted Today, 03:22 PM

Jason_S, on 03 Jun 2015 - 3:13 PM, said:

Well, as is commonly the case, you either completely misread what was typed or you intentionally changed the point you wanted to refute just so you'd have the opportunity to refute it.

 

No one said Luck has had a better start to his career than Ben. 

 

posted today

amfootball

 

?????

 

I was responding to this post:

 

coltsrule91, on 14 Mar 2015 - 2:24 PM, said:

luck is closer to elite status in just three seasons then ben has ever been in his entire career

 

closer to elite status had a better start in his career

[Jason_]

?????

 

I was responding to this post:

 

coltsrule91, on 14 Mar 2015 - 2:24 PM, said:

 

LOL...and you missed it yet again.

 

 

Reading does not equal comprehending.

[amfootball]

Posted Today, 03:22 PM

Jason_S, on 03 Jun 2015 - 3:13 PM, said:

 

posted today

amfootball

 

?????

 

I was responding to this post:

 

coltsrule91, on 14 Mar 2015 - 2:24 PM, said:

 

closer to elite status had a better start in his career

That is how I interpreted the comment and responded accordingly. My comment was also cherry picked from a discussion with Coltsrule 91 and he did not seem to take issue with my comments or interpretation. 

[Jason_]

That is how I interpreted the comment and responded accordingly.

 

No idea how you could have interpreted it that way.  He very clearly said Luck (the QB) is closer to elite status than Ben (the QB).  An individual QB being elite or not does not directly correlate with their team's success. 

 

 

My comment was also cherry picked from a discussion with Coltsrule 91 and he did not seem to take issue with my comment or interpretation.

 

 

I didn't cherry pick anything.  It was the first post that I saw that I wanted to respond to.  I was going to respond to your previous point about how Big Ben's SB rings have nothing to do with who is closer to elite status between he and Luck.  CR91 had already replied to that however so I skipped that one. 

[amfootball]

No idea how you could have interpreted it that way.  He very clearly said Luck (the QB) is closer to elite status than Ben (the QB).  An individual QB being elite or not does not directly correlate with their team's success. 

 

 

I didn't cherry pick anything.  It was the first post that I saw that I wanted to respond to.  I was going to respond to your previous point about how Big Ben's SB rings have nothing to do with who is closer to elite status between he and Luck.  CR91 had already replied to that however so I skipped that one. 

Ok but the conversation you jumped in on was between Colts 91 and myself. I think he can speak for himself if he felt I had misinterpreted his post. Like I said, we had multiple back and forth posts and he never took issue with my stance.

[Jason_]

Ok but the conversation you jumped in on was between Colts 91 and myself. I think he can speak for himself if he felt I had misinterpreted his post. Like I said, we had multiple back and forth posts and he never took issue with my stance.

 

If you don't want other posters to "jump in" to your conversation with someone else, then you should do it via PM.  Frankly, I don't care whether CR91 thinks you misinterpreted his post or not.  If you interpreted his response correctly, then he worded it very poorly.  For all I know, he simply didn't catch that you changed the meaning of what he posted.

 

Now, one thing you said in this thread that I do agree with was this:

 

Luck is great but not every QB out there is inferior to him

 

 

 

although this part at the end was completely irrelevant.

 

especially one that won 2 rings his first four in the league.

[amfootball]

If you don't want other posters to "jump in" to your conversation with someone else, then you should do it via PM.  Frankly, I don't care whether CR91 thinks you misinterpreted his post or not.  If you interpreted his response correctly, then he worded it very poorly.  For all I know, he simply didn't catch that you changed the meaning of what he posted.

 

Now, one thing you said in this thread that I do agree with was this:

 

 

 

although this part at the end was completely irrelevant.

I don't mind posters jumping in as it is a forum but reading the conversation between  posters is important as like I said Colts 91 did not take issue with my stance or interpretation. If you have an issue with my opinion, feel free to state it and we can debate. 

[Jason_]

I don't mind posters jumping in as it is a forum

 

That's good.  If you'd said you did mind I would have simply laughed.

 

but reading the conversation between  posters is important

 

 

The rest of the conversation evolved into CR91 and others trying to explain the reasons why Ben has SB rings and Luck does not.  So if we take that a step further, they were explaining to you why your comment about Luck not being better than Ben because Ben has SB rings.   They were explaining that, even though Ben had a better supporting cast around him (especially a better defense), they still believe Luck is the better QB.  I don't know that I agree that Luck is already better than Ben, but I do agree that Ben's SB rings have nothing to do with the discussion. 

 

as like I said Colts 91 did not take issue with my stance or interpretation.

 

 

Yes, they did take the same issue with your comment as I did, they just didn't spell it out for you the same way I did.  However the intent is clear in the points they were making.  The first 3 years of Ben's career were more successful than Luck's because Ben had a better team around him, and not because Ben was a better QB through his first 3 years than Luck has been through his first 3 years.  Which means that Ben's SB rings do not belong in the conversation about which one of them is closer to "elite" than the other.  Which also means that, since Ben's team was better than Luck's, you can't determine which of them was a better QB during those time periods going by their team's respective success during those time periods.  Which gets back to the original point that I made, no one ever said that Luck had a more successful career through 3 years than Ben did.

 

If you have an issue with my opinion, feel free to state it and we can debate.

 

 

I highly doubt that.  I've seen your debates.  They always turn out the same way. 

[amfootball]

That's good.  If you'd said you did mind I would have simply laughed.

 

 

The rest of the conversation evolved into CR91 and others trying to explain the reasons why Ben has SB rings and Luck does not.  So if we take that a step further, they were explaining to you why your comment about Luck not being better than Ben because Ben has SB rings.   They were explaining that, even though Ben had a better supporting cast around him (especially a better defense), they still believe Luck is the better QB.  I don't know that I agree that Luck is already better than Ben, but I do agree that Ben's SB rings have nothing to do with the discussion. 

 

 

Yes, they did take the same issue with your comment as I did, they just didn't spell it out for you the same way I did.  However the intent is clear in the points they were making.  The first 3 years of Ben's career were more successful than Luck's because Ben had a better team around him, and not because Ben was a better QB through his first 3 years than Luck has been through his first 3 years.  Which means that Ben's SB rings do not belong in the conversation about which one of them is closer to "elite" than the other.  Which also means that, since Ben's team was better than Luck's, you can't determine which of them was a better QB during those time periods going by their team's respective success during those time periods.  Which gets back to the original point that I made, no one ever said that Luck had a more successful career through 3 years than Ben did.

 

 

I highly doubt that.  I've seen your debates.  They always turn out the same way. 

What are you using to judge Luck as the better QB? Volume stats? That is a more a factor of the offense than it is a judging stick of who has played the position better. Ben has had a better completion percentage and less turnovers his first three seasons. And you can't just discount the rings discussion or post-season success as the QB is the one most instrumental in leading this team to championships. The Steelers were 6-10 before Ben took over in his rookie year so he did not inherent a great team and of course he did not lose a game until the AFCCG vs the Pats his rookie year complete with multiple GW drives. Then the next season he won the SB as the sixth seed. If you want to discount all that and chalk it all up to the team than you pretty much have to do the same with Luck and his stats as that is a factor of his team as well.

 

I think at the beginning of their career and right now Big Ben is the better Qb all around. I do think Luck will continue to mature, hopefully cut down the turnovers and be one of the top QBs in the league for a long time to come. But right now he is not there IMO. Compared to Ben that is.

[BOTT]

ben is a good QB but hes never been mentioned as one of the best.

He's finally playing in a real offense instead of Arians' "chuck it deep" philosophy.

[Jason_]

What are you using to judge Luck as the better QB? Volume stats? That is a more a factor of the offense than it is a judging stick of who has played the position better. Ben has had a better completion percentage and less turnovers his first three seasons. And you can't just discount the rings discussion or post-season success as the QB is the one most instrumental in leading this team to championships. The Steelers were 6-10 before Ben took over in his rookie year so he did not inherent a great team and of course he did not lose a game until the AFCCG vs the Pats his rookie year complete with multiple GW drives. Then the next season he won the SB as the sixth seed. If you want to discount all that and chalk it all up to the team than you pretty much have to do the same with Luck and his stats as that is a factor of his team as well.

I think at the beginning of their career and right now Big Ben is the better Qb all around. I do think Luck will continue to mature, hopefully cut down the turnovers and be one of the top QBs in the league for a long time to come. But right now he is not there IMO. Compared to Ben that is.

Lol. Here we go again. Where did I say Luck is the better qb?

[CR91]

 

 

closer to elite status had a better start in his career

with a defense and a running game

[ColtsBlueFL]

{snipped}

 

The Steelers were 6-10 before Ben took over in his rookie year so he did not inherent a great team and of course he did not lose a game until the AFCCG vs the Pats his rookie year complete with multiple GW drives. Then the next season he won the SB as the sixth seed. If you want to discount all that and chalk it all up to the team than you pretty much have to do the same with Luck and his stats as that is a factor of his team as well.

 

I think at the beginning of their career and right now Big Ben is the better Qb all around. I do think Luck will continue to mature, hopefully cut down the turnovers and be one of the top QBs in the league for a long time to come. But right now he is not there IMO. Compared to Ben that is.

 

OK, amfootball.... I call you on your Bull spit.  Yes, they were 6-10 in an injury riddled season before Roethlisberger took over when Maddox got hurt (like Brady over Bledsoe).  But.. BIG BUT... the 3 years prior to that 6-10 season, the Steelers were 9-7, then 13-3 and lost in AFCCG to Patriots.  Then went 10-5  -1 tie. Lost in playoff division round to Titans.

 

You're making it seem the Steelrs were a crap team Big Ben brought from the flames like a Phoenix.  Wrongo!  Ben got a great team, playoff caliber, and a great coach in Cowher who knew how to handle a Rook QB with potential.  Bruce Arians let Luck loose in rookie season from the get go! (Arians was Bens OC too) It's Pep that reeled Luck back in, then realized that was the wrong thing to do, and it still searching out the balance.  Ben had a better team, Luck played better QB.  Period, end.

 

I  might give Big Ben the slight nod over Andrew right now.  But I think that will be moot soon.  And Luck was much better in 1st three seasons than Ben. And Luck had to be, Ben did not.

[ruksak]

When your boys have to stand outside of a bathroom stall you have issues. I think Ben's career should have actually been over at that point.

A good question would be; What kind of woman voluntarily goes into a men's bathroom stall with a famous athlete she just met? 

 

Yep....a ho does that. 

[Malakai432]

Yes, but that doesn't mean Ben isn't a great QB. Nor does it mean Luck is elite right now. Ben is a great QB and he deserves that contract. He didn't just get paid for 2 games, as you suggested.

I can't stand Ben, but you are right he's a phenominal QB. I also agree Luck isn't elite yet but a couple more years and some improvements should do it. Perhaps after this year pending on how the well he plays and how well the Colts do.

[Malakai432]

A good question would be; What kind of woman voluntarily goes into a men's bathroom stall with a famous athlete she just met?

Yep....a ho does that.

Ken stop talking about me like that!