Pats/Denver thread - snow in forecast (merge)

[Superman]

I think when you play the Pats or the Broncos, you have the QB effect. And what I mean by that is that the opposing QB knows they have to put up points to win. Brady said before the game that he can't expect to put up 10 points and win vs Manning. So as much as the Colts may want to stay balanced and take the run in an obvious pass look defense, they will pass because of the pressure Brady will put on them to score. This is one of the main reason why Brady and Manning have won as much as they have. They just put so much pressure on other teams QBs to stay with them. That being said, Luck can stay with Brady but I don't think he will be able to score at will vs this defense. I think the wild card will be more the Colts D and how they try to contain the Pats. Denver had the better D going in so we thought and they were shredded all game.

 

Our offense has dominated time of possession all year. That's more effective than scoring a ton of points. Just limit the other team's offense, and finish your drives with points (hopefully, TDs), and things change. And no turnovers...

 

Gonna be an interesting matchup, either way. A barometer game for the Colts, for sure.

[amfootball]

Our offense has dominated time of possession all year. That's more effective than scoring a ton of points. Just limit the other team's offense, and finish your drives with points (hopefully, TDs), and things change. And no turnovers...

 

Gonna be an interesting matchup, either way. A barometer game for the Colts, for sure.

What happened vs Pitt? Was it just a factor of Davis going out?

[southwest1]

OK, that's reasonable.  My post was making the point that all the individual stats are just a lot of noise.  The NFL hypes this stuff because there is somehow money in Fantasy Football.   438 yards or 43.8 yards, the Broncos got whupped yesterday.  I never said he had a noodle arm, I was just scoffing at the statistics he piled up. 

I realize the point you are making OMP & yes, individual stats in a game already decided mean nothing in a game that a QB gets stomped in. At the end of the day all that matters is winning the game & securing home field advantage in the playoffs. 

 

Your point is valid & a good one. Stats taken in a vacuum can be very misleading if a person doesn't view the entire game in context. My issue was with MOW not you or his argument rather BTW. 

 

" I was just scoffing at the statistics he piled up." Fair enough. I was only using Manning passing yards to point out that for a person with a "noodle arm" no one would mistake Manning for say Tim Tebow.

[dgambill]

Yeah, when Manning threw that pick, I had a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach. The 1st thing I said after swearing was "Brady's gonna make Denver pay dearly for that." Yes, the Broncos couldn't buy a 3rd down conversion last night. It was brutal. 

 

Brady, on the other hand, was on fire last night & when he gets in a rhythm he's almost impossible to stop. Sometimes NFL games are like that 1 QB can do no wrong & the other 1 just can't get it going. It happens. 

 

What set the tone for me was the Julian Edelman punt return for a TD. I was like "Say goodnight Gracie/Denver. It's over." The Patriots were just in the zone last night & Edelman broke Denver's back meaning broke that game wide open & started pulling away mojo/ momentum wise IMHO.

Hard to convert third down when your 3rd and 11 all night. Belicheck sets that defense at the sticks and sits on them. Can't have bad penalties like holding etc to set you back or runs for no gains. Denver didn't get clicking...and then when they did in the second half they couldn't convert in the redzone. Peyton didn't lose the game but he just didn't make plays he normally does in getting them in the endzone. The playing from behind and predictability really hurt Denver. We all know they kill you with the passing game but normally they get a few more plays downfield and open up those crossing routes because the lbs have to honor the run...they didn't tonight..they could blitz or drop 8 in coverage....it was brutal...and Peyton was lucky he didn't throw 4 or 5 picks trying to throw into 8 defenders all night.

[dgambill]

OK, that's reasonable.  My post was making the point that all the individual stats are just a lot of noise.  The NFL hypes this stuff because there is somehow money in Fantasy Football.   438 yards or 43.8 yards, the Broncos got whupped yesterday.  I never said he had a noodle arm, I was just scoffing at the statistics he piled up. 

Numbers don't matter much in a loss...just like Lucks last week. That said he earned every single yard. NE wasn't giving them anything...not an inch...there was no prevent coverage etc. Peyton's yardage was very much hard earned....that said it didn't matter much because it didn't convert those yards to points...as they got stopped several times on 4th down in NE's half of the field and red zone. Peyton cares about his stats sure....he understands that to win you have to score more points than your opponent...and to do that you often have to score TDs....TDs equal wins to Peyton...and last night he said he stunk it up...he admited he played poorly and if he only cared about stats he wouldn't have put the blame on himself. Last year Peyton ran the ball to a tune of 200yds against NE...he will run the ball if it is working....but Denver looked terrible at the point of attack...pass blocking was worse than Brady's and run blocking was non-existant...all that said stats etc are typically a byproduct of being successful on the field...and winning and stats typically fall hand in hand.....I mean its no coincedence that Brady is like 18-1 td/ints and avg like over 300 yds per game during this win streak...and he was very much below avg during their struggles early...so stats mean something...they don't equal wins but they in indicative of a players performance typically and usually translate to a teams success. Peytons aren't just for ego sake if that is what you are getting at....definately not last night...he had to earn every yard....those guys were on his recievers like white on rice.

[southwest1]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. BB brought him in for being physical and that's going to draw some penalties.

 

Two pretty good ex-patriots were talking about that-Wiggins and Fox. 40 passes with 3 penalties isn't that bad taking it in that light because it sets the tone we're going to beat up on you. They did say you might have to be more careful with that in the playoffs which could cost a game.

 

So basically you're exchanging some penalties to get the defense in a frame of mind. Welker dropped a ball for an INT because he knew he was going to be hit hard.

 

As to Manning- Brady has the accurate bullet but still over throws the deep passes. Manning doesn't have the bullet but he sure can drop those long balls dead on. I guess neither one can be a 100% in everything would be the moral of the story

"Basically, you're exchanging some penalties some penalties to get the defense in a frame of mind"

 

An excellent point JJ except for 1 thing. NFL zebras usually tighten the screws on penalty calls in the playoffs & if Browner keeps giving up huge chucks of field position in the playoffs coupled with say an off night for Brady similar to the KC debacle. An onslaught of penalties at the wrong time can kill your Lombardi hopes & send your team home permanently. Boneheaded mistakes in the post season can neutralize anybody even BB's defensive genius. 

 

Denver proved that last night putting Manning in bad 3rd & long situations all night long like DGB said "Hard to convert third down when your 3rd and 11 all night. Belicheck sets that defense at the sticks and sits on them. Can't have bad penalties like holding etc to set you back or runs for no gains."

 

It's a good bet that Belichick is gonna have a conversation with Browner this week about field position vs aggression & not giving the opponent a whole new set of downs consistently. I would be sitting Browner down & having this very conversation with him right now especially when 90% of the penalties automatically favor the offense anyway. 

[Superman]

My problem with the PI calls is that it's still inconsistent. And to be consistent, you'd have to literally call every instance where a defender makes contact with a receiver. They hit Browner with a holding call yesterday that extended a drive, but on one of the fourth-and-outs for Denver, Chung was all over Tamme in the end zone, making more contact than Browner had made when they called a penalty. I'm not sure what was so "broken" that the league felt they had to step in and fix it. There's been no shortage of scoring in recent years. I prefer to see a little defense played in a football game. 

 

I know Browner's history but don't think the Patriots are going to leave him exposed in any situations where he doesn't have deep help on his side. He'll give up some balls, don't get me wrong. But from a big-picture standpoint, I love having a big, physical corner out there. 

 

I was looking at Hilton's game logs for this year. Looks like Denver did a nice job on him (5 catches on 11 targets), as did Philly (6 on 11 targets). Obviously he's been great though. I'm sure what you described was put in place to get him off the line and into his routes. That seems like it's the key with a small guy like that. 

 

To the bolded, no you don't. Incidental contact. They generally don't like hand fighting, but they've even been lenient with that. You're acting like any contact whatsoever is a penalty, and it's not, nor should it be.

 

On the play with Chung and Tamme in the end zone, I thought Tamme initiated more contact than Chung did, and as both guys were trying to play the ball, any other contact would be fair. Good no call, IMO. Completely different than the calls Browner got, one of which where he grabbed the receiver's jersey.

 

And in general, I don't think the purpose of making sure defensive holding and illegal contact is called is about scoring. I think the point is that defenders shouldn't be allowed to grab and hold and impede a receiver's progress down the field. That's not coverage. Coverage is being where the receiver is, not trying to prevent him from going where he's trying to go. You can play coverage, even physical coverage, without the grabbing and holding. I think we've discussed this in the past, even before this year. I just don't think preventing defenders from grabbing and holding neuters the defense from playing actual defense. 

 

Having a big, physical corner isn't a bad thing. I just think it's better to have a big, physical corner who can actually play coverage. I think Browner is going to get called for a lot of penalties throughout the year, simply because he's too grabby. You might feel that's ticky-tack, but he kind of invites it. I get why you like him, though.

 

On Hilton, you mentioned the Week 1 and Week 2 games. To me, Luck was off in the first two games. Late throws, missed some open receivers, throws behind guys or over their heads, etc. Moving Hilton and aligning him off the line of scrimmage has always been part of the gameplan, and was used even more last year after Reggie got hurt. The bigger difference has been Luck playing better, really. 

[Superman]

What happened vs Pitt? Was it just a factor of Davis going out?

 

To me, it was a bad gameplan, some mistakes in zone coverage (see: bad gameplan), Davis went out, and the Steelers were just on fire (and still are, judging from last night's performance). An anomaly, I hope.

[buccolts]

If you get chance, look at the td he threw to J Thomas yesterday. He certainly doesn't have the zip he once had, but it is enough to get the job done

 

I'll try to catch the replay, or hopefully, they'll show a highlight during halftime tonight.

I better catch the replay though.    

Sounds like the highlights may be a bit one sided.

[PrincetonTiger]

What happened vs Pitt? Was it just a factor of Davis going out?

There were several key injuries

[PrincetonTiger]

To me, it was a bad gameplan, some mistakes in zone coverage (see: bad gameplan), Davis went out, and the Steelers were just on fire (and still are, judging from last night's performance). An anomaly, I hope.

Agreed

[amfootball]

To the bolded, no you don't. Incidental contact. They generally don't like hand fighting, but they've even been lenient with that. You're acting like any contact whatsoever is a penalty, and it's not, nor should it be.

 

On the play with Chung and Tamme in the end zone, I thought Tamme initiated more contact than Chung did, and as both guys were trying to play the ball, any other contact would be fair. Good no call, IMO. Completely different than the calls Browner got, one of which where he grabbed the receiver's jersey.

 

And in general, I don't think the purpose of making sure defensive holding and illegal contact is called is about scoring. I think the point is that defenders shouldn't be allowed to grab and hold and impede a receiver's progress down the field. That's not coverage. Coverage is being where the receiver is, not trying to prevent him from going where he's trying to go. You can play coverage, even physical coverage, without the grabbing and holding. I think we've discussed this in the past, even before this year. I just don't think preventing defenders from grabbing and holding neuters the defense from playing actual defense. 

 

Having a big, physical corner isn't a bad thing. I just think it's better to have a big, physical corner who can actually play coverage. I think Browner is going to get called for a lot of penalties throughout the year, simply because he's too grabby. You might feel that's ticky-tack, but he kind of invites it. I get why you like him, though.

 

On Hilton, you mentioned the Week 1 and Week 2 games. To me, Luck was off in the first two games. Late throws, missed some open receivers, throws behind guys or over their heads, etc. Moving Hilton and aligning him off the line of scrimmage has always been part of the gameplan, and was used even more last year after Reggie got hurt. The bigger difference has been Luck playing better, really. 

I felt the refs called a great yesterday in regards to PI/holding. I think there was one call on Browner that I thought was ticky tack but other than that they let the guys hand fight and lots of contact in the 5 yard rule. But to GoPats point, that has not been the point most of this season. They have been inconsistent. I think as the season goes along I hope they settle in to what we saw yesterday.

[amfootball]

To me, it was a bad gameplan, some mistakes in zone coverage (see: bad gameplan), Davis went out, and the Steelers were just on fire (and still are, judging from last night's performance). An anomaly, I hope.

I have always felt that your coaching has been suspect the last two years.

[southwest1]

My problem with the PI calls is that it's still inconsistent. And to be consistent, you'd have to literally call every instance where a defender makes contact with a receiver. They hit Browner with a holding call yesterday that extended a drive, but on one of the fourth-and-outs for Denver, Chung was all over Tamme in the end zone, making more contact than Browner had made when they called a penalty. I'm not sure what was so "broken" that the league felt they had to step in and fix it. There's been no shortage of scoring in recent years. I prefer to see a little defense played in a football game. 

 

 But from a big-picture standpoint, I love having a big, physical corner out there. 

 

 

Defense? What's that? LOL! Zebras are forbidden from allowing LBs, DE's, CBs, & safeties from doing their jobs now. Just kidding GP! I wish we could bring back the aura of the 85 Bears & 2000 Ravens too man. But those days of yellow flag freedom are dead now I'm afraid. It is what it is. 

 

I guess one could make the argument that the Seahawks SB victory proved that defense can still win Championships, but I would make the argument it boils down to who your referee crew is & how they officiate the actual game. The wrong crew who adheres to the letter of the law & it's gonna be a long night for the defense. 

 

Browner's intensity & physicality is a plus to be sure, but he's got to learn/ choose the right moment to give a WR a love tap or be more sneaky/cloak & dagger about it. Calculated mayhem/hits matter meaning you can't treat every down like you wanna send somebody to the hospital. That's my issue with Browner: He's gotta wait for the right moment to drop the sledge hammer. 

[Superman]

I felt the refs called a great yesterday in regards to PI/holding. I think there was one call on Browner that I thought was ticky tack but other than that they let the guys hand fight and lots of contact in the 5 yard rule. But to GoPats point, that has not been the point most of this season. They have been inconsistent. I think as the season goes along I hope they settle in to what we saw yesterday.

 

Calls are going to be inconsistent. I get that. But I think the point is that defenders should be able to cover without impeding the progress of the receiver. Defensive holding and illegal contact are in place to prevent defenders from impeding the progress of the receiver.

 

I think as the year goes on, the refs will continue to settle into a more normal pace for these fouls, but I also think defenders will be trained by then to be less grabby down the field. No matter what, I don't the grabbing and holding that always seems to increase as time goes on should just be allowed. That's not coverage, IMO.

[amfootball]

Calls are going to be inconsistent. I get that. But I think the point is that defenders should be able to cover without impeding the progress of the receiver. Defensive holding and illegal contact are in place to prevent defenders from impeding the progress of the receiver.

 

I think as the year goes on, the refs will continue to settle into a more normal pace for these fouls, but I also think defenders will be trained by then to be less grabby down the field. No matter what, I don't the grabbing and holding that always seems to increase as time goes on should just be allowed. That's not coverage, IMO.

I agree but I think there are degrees of holding and grabbing. A quick hold or grab that does not impede the receiver but more incidental should not be called. This is where I think they were going overboard early in the season. Some of the hand fighting I saw yesterday had holding and grabbing by both receiver and defender at times and they let it go. As with everything, there is a balance and fans know when they see something that is truly impeding vs incidental. I am fine if they call every game like they did yesterday.

[Superman]

I have always felt that your coaching has been suspect the last two years.

 

But no love for the great gameplan in the shutout the week before that...

 

Our coaching staff is a work in progress. They aren't perfect, that's for sure. But people make a bigger deal out of their mistakes than they really should, and almost never credit them for the good they do, which is far more prominent than the bad. 

 

In the Steelers game, I don't know why we decided to play so much zone. I think our strength is in man coverage, so the zone is just a bad idea, IMO. (Maybe they thought the Steelers would struggle to come open against zone, and that might be based on film and whatnot, but I think you should do what you do best, in most cases. For us, that's not zone.) However, on the first TD, Davis appeared to overplay the middle of the field, and was out of position, allowing a huge window for Roethlisberger to throw to. So that's as much on execution -- by our best cover man, in this case -- as it is on coaching. In most cases, I think it's about Jimmy's and Joe's, not X's and O's. Your players have to perform, whether your gameplan is good or not. When you combine a questionable gameplan with poor execution, you give up 51 points and 600+ yards of offense. 

 

It's over now, though. I think the defensive coaching has been mostly good, especially considering the fact that we had more sacks over the course of a month than any team in the league, but we have no pass rushers. We were 4/45(?) on third down for four straight games. The gameplans have been pretty good, IMO. One stinker doesn't change that.

[Superman]

I agree but I think there are degrees of holding and grabbing. A quick hold or grab that does not impede the receiver but more incidental should not be called. This is where I think they were going overboard early in the season. Some of the hand fighting I saw yesterday had holding and grabbing by both receiver and defender at times and they let it go. As with everything, there is a balance and fans know when they see something that is truly impeding vs incidental. I am fine if they call every game like they did yesterday.

 

Yeah, it was overboard a lot of the time earlier on, especially in preseason. I think yesterday's game was called pretty good, for the most part. 

 

Someone got called for PI in the end zone, for pulling the receiver's hip and turning him. (Was that Browner?) Not a lot of contact, but obviously PI. I think anyone without an agenda can spot a coverage penalty, and some of them do seem ticky-tack. But for the most part, I agree with the reasoning behind focusing on these fouls. You can't just mug receivers down the field, and you shouldn't be allowed to.

[amfootball]

But no love for the great gameplan in the shutout the week before that...

 

Our coaching staff is a work in progress. They aren't perfect, that's for sure. But people make a bigger deal out of their mistakes than they really should, and almost never credit them for the good they do, which is far more prominent than the bad. 

 

In the Steelers game, I don't know why we decided to play so much zone. I think our strength is in man coverage, so the zone is just a bad idea, IMO. (Maybe they thought the Steelers would struggle to come open against zone, and that might be based on film and whatnot, but I think you should do what you do best, in most cases. For us, that's not zone.) However, on the first TD, Davis appeared to overplay the middle of the field, and was out of position, allowing a huge window for Roethlisberger to throw to. So that's as much on execution -- by our best cover man, in this case -- as it is on coaching. In most cases, I think it's about Jimmy's and Joe's, not X's and O's. Your players have to perform, whether your gameplan is good or not. When you combine a questionable gameplan with poor execution, you give up 51 points and 600+ yards of offense. 

 

It's over now, though. I think the defensive coaching has been mostly good, especially considering the fact that we had more sacks over the course of a month than any team in the league, but we have no pass rushers. We were 4/45(?) on third down for four straight games. The gameplans have been pretty good, IMO. One stinker doesn't change that.

I didn't say they were terrible. Just suspect. The Colts seem to have a few games every year where they are not ready to play. I like Pagano. Not a fan of Pep. I just think if anything holds you back from getting deep into the playoffs, it will be coaching as that is where it gets magnified. The game plan, the ability to adjust, in game decisions, etc.

[southwest1]

I'm not bypassing the NY Giants tonight, but if INDY gets stuffed in the running vs NE on November 16th like Denver did last night the Colts are toast. The only comfort I can take right now is that the Patriots running game was not great last night either. 

 

Start WR Donte Moncrief over Hakeem Nicks too. I'm done with Nicks now. BB is gonna shutdown TY Hilton. I'd almost bet my life of that one because his speed is more dangerous than Reggie Wayne's & TY shortness gets lost easily in traffic sometimes. 

 

RB Trent Richardson is gonna get swallowed up by NE's D. I don't have a good feeling about him especially if Brady is up by 3 TDs in the 1st half. 

[GoPats]

To the bolded, no you don't. Incidental contact. They generally don't like hand fighting, but they've even been lenient with that. You're acting like any contact whatsoever is a penalty, and it's not, nor should it be.

 

On the play with Chung and Tamme in the end zone, I thought Tamme initiated more contact than Chung did, and as both guys were trying to play the ball, any other contact would be fair. Good no call, IMO. Completely different than the calls Browner got, one of which where he grabbed the receiver's jersey.

 

And in general, I don't think the purpose of making sure defensive holding and illegal contact is called is about scoring. I think the point is that defenders shouldn't be allowed to grab and hold and impede a receiver's progress down the field. That's not coverage. Coverage is being where the receiver is, not trying to prevent him from going where he's trying to go. You can play coverage, even physical coverage, without the grabbing and holding. I think we've discussed this in the past, even before this year. I just don't think preventing defenders from grabbing and holding neuters the defense from playing actual defense. 

 

Having a big, physical corner isn't a bad thing. I just think it's better to have a big, physical corner who can actually play coverage. I think Browner is going to get called for a lot of penalties throughout the year, simply because he's too grabby. You might feel that's ticky-tack, but he kind of invites it. I get why you like him, though.

 

On Hilton, you mentioned the Week 1 and Week 2 games. To me, Luck was off in the first two games. Late throws, missed some open receivers, throws behind guys or over their heads, etc. Moving Hilton and aligning him off the line of scrimmage has always been part of the gameplan, and was used even more last year after Reggie got hurt. The bigger difference has been Luck playing better, really. 

 

Defense? What's that? LOL! Zebras are forbidden from allowing LBs, DE's, CBs, & safeties from doing their jobs now. Just kidding GP! I wish we could bring back the aura of the 85 Bears & 2000 Ravens too man. But those days of yellow flag freedom are dead now I'm afraid. It is what it is. 

 

I guess one could make the argument that the Seahawks SB victory proved that defense can still win Championships, but I would make the argument it boils down to who your referee crew is & how they officiate the actual game. The wrong crew who adheres to the letter of the law & it's gonna be a long night for the defense. 

 

Browner's intensity & physicality is a plus to be sure, but he's got to learn/ choose the right moment to give a WR a love tap or be more sneaky/cloak & dagger about it. Calculated mayhem/hits matter meaning you can't treat every down like you wanna send somebody to the hospital. That's my issue with Browner: He's gotta wait for the right moment to drop the sledge hammer. 

 

I hear you guys... I just have not liked what they've done this year, even when calls have gone in the Patriots' favor. Personally I think this is all about the billion-dollar fantasy football market. Makes casual fans watch more, etc. But for me it's kind of ruining the game. I don't think DBs should be able to mug receivers so don't get me wrong, but EVERY pass incompletion now, I'm holding my breath and waiting for the flags to start flying. There are mediocre QBs putting up good numbers every week. This isn't the NFL I grew up on. 

[OldManP]

FYI that rule was in place before Manning was even in college. If you are going to try to make an argument at least get the facts correct

You don't know what you are talking about.  The NFL changed the rules (you could look it up if you didn't have your nose up Manning's stats).  Maybe you do know what you are talking about, and you think people are stupid.  Either case, you are intransigent and I doubt anyone could change your mind. 

[OldManP]

I realize the point you are making OMP & yes, individual stats in a game already decided mean nothing in a game that a QB gets stomped in. At the end of the day all that matters is winning the game & securing home field advantage in the playoffs. 

 

Your point is valid & a good one. Stats taken in a vacuum can be very misleading if a person doesn't view the entire game in context. My issue was with MOW not you or his argument rather BTW. 

 

" I was just scoffing at the statistics he piled up." Fair enough. I was only using Manning passing yards to point out that for a person with a "noodle arm" no one would mistake Manning for say Tim Tebow.

There's not much difference between Tim Tebow and Peyton Manning in Super Bowl wins in Denver.

 

Tim Tebow had a great play and a great win in the playoffs.  With many fewer "weapons" (hate that term).

[Narcosys]

This game is over, shouldn't this thread be too? Or did it turn into a who's better Brady or Manning thread?

[amfootball]

Or did it turn into a who's better Brady or Manning thread?

No, it didn't. That was pretty much decided last night when Manning said he stunk. ;)

[JerodMayo51]

This game is over, shouldn't this thread be too? Or did it turn into a who's better Brady or Manning thread?

 

We know the answer to that question;

 

bleacherreport.com/articles/2253566-brady-vs-manning-is-not-complicated-brady-is-better

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/no-debate-facts-show-tom-brady-better-than-peyton-manning/31873/

[southwest1]

There's not much difference between Tim Tebow and Peyton Manning in Super Bowl wins in Denver.

 

Tim Tebow had a great play and a great win in the playoffs.  With many fewer "weapons" (hate that term).

When Tebow actually plays in a SB vs Manning whose played in 3 & won 1, then we can talk about a fair QB comparison between both field generals. 

[jvan1973]

You don't know what you are talking about. The NFL changed the rules (you could look it up if you didn't have your nose up Manning's stats). Maybe you do know what you are talking about, and you think people are stupid. Either case, you are intransigent and I doubt anyone could change your mind.

Actually i do know what I'm talkibg about. The rule was already in the books. Polian asked for it to start being called. So you are wrong, yet again.

[jvan1973]

There's not much difference between Tim Tebow and Peyton Manning in Super Bowl wins in Denver.

Tim Tebow had a great play and a great win in the playoffs. With many fewer "weapons" (hate that term).

Ignorant.

[Fx Stryker]

We know the answer to that question;

 

bleacherreport.com/articles/2253566-brady-vs-manning-is-not-complicated-brady-is-better

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/no-debate-facts-show-tom-brady-better-than-peyton-manning/31873/

 

Manning 2-1 in the AFC Championship game. It's about the big wins, right?

[southwest1]

We know the answer to that question;

 

bleacherreport.com/articles/2253566-brady-vs-manning-is-not-complicated-brady-is-better

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/no-debate-facts-show-tom-brady-better-than-peyton-manning/31873/

Brady deserves praise today because he's definitely earned it, but I will always view Manning vs Brady as 1A & 1B. 2 of the best QBs this league has ever seen & might not ever see again. 

 

Brady executed more plays than Manning did yes, but at the end of the day, I will never slam the brilliance of either QB. Round 1: Brady. Round 2: To be determined, but I don't see a duplicate result myself. 

[Superman]

Manning 2-1 in the AFC Championship game. It's about the big wins, right?

 

If Manning's team won, it was obviously NOT a big game...

[buffalo34]

If Manning's team won, it was obviously NOT a big game...

 

I love how in the Cold Hard Facts article, he goes through every playoff loss under Manning in great detail, and in each one, assigns 100% of the blame to Peyton (and in a decent amount of games Manning was not directly at fault for those losses). How come no mention of playoff legend Tom Brady's playoff shortcomings that we have seen for the past decade, including 2 playoff losses to Manning and 2 Super Bowl losses in which his team was favored (one of them heavily) to win both of them?

 

And even in 2006, the guy argues that Manning "stumbled" into a SB win because of THREE TOUCHDOWNS AND SEVEN INTERCEPTIONS. Wasn't Manning's only poor game that postseason arguably the Chiefs Wild Card game? I know his stats didn't look pretty vs. the Ravens too but I would've loved to see anyone else go into Baltimore that year and try to light up what was arguably the best defense in the league. The AFCCG vs. the Patriots is self-explanatory and there was no need for Peyton to set the field on fire in the Super Bowl given that the running game was working great (and didn't Peyton have a decent-enough game against the Bears anyway, who, like the Ravens he had played earlier, and arguably the Patriots, had one of the best defenses in the NFL that year?).

 

What would've made this guy happy? Would Peyton have had to throw for 350 yards and 4 touchdowns in all 4 of those playoff games for that SB win to "count"?

[JerodMayo51]

Brady deserves praise today because he's definitely earned it, but I will always view Manning vs Brady as 1A & 1B. 2 of the best QBs this league has ever seen & might not ever see again. 

 

Brady executed more plays than Manning did yes, but at the end of the day, I will never slam the brilliance of either QB. Round 1: Brady. Round 2: To be determined, but I don't see a duplicate result myself. 

 

Its such a gratifying win because of how quickly everyone pounced all over the Patriots at the beginning of the year because they didn't come right out of the gate blowing teams away.

 

People on this very board were saying how the Patriots are average, they're in decline, Brady is just average and not really that good and now its showing, etc etc etc...  Everyone couldn't get in line fast enough to take a shot at Brady and the Patriots.. yet here they are sitting at 7-2 atop the AFC standings.

 

The one bad game against Kansas City and everywhere you went, people were talking about the Patriots demise and how Brady just doesn't have it anymore and is in decline.. and then continued to take cheap shots, kicking him while they were down and saying he was never really that good to begin with, hes overrated, etc etc etc...   Then they just tore apart the "best" team in the NFL piece by piece... Brady completely outplayed the godly Manning and would have had 6 TDs and 0 Ints if not for dropped balls.

 

In addition to that, there was all this talk about how they will only make the playoffs because of their "weak" division, yet both Buffalo and Miami are sitting at 5-3...  Everyone had the Chargers as one of the top teams to beat in the league this year, and Miami just blew the doors off of them.  Everyone was all over the Pats for losing week 1 on the road against a very good Miami team, nobody would admit or give Buffalo & Miami any credit, living in the past while talking about how they aren't any good.

 

Its extremely gratifying to get this win...  It reminds me of the early 2000's, when everyone was licking their chops to take a shot at the Patriots, just waiting for them to slip up so they could all pounce... They're adopting that "us against the world" mentality again, just like in 2003 & 2004...

 

Everyone wanted to praise all of these teams that got off to hot starts but are now starting to run out of gas... the Patriots got off to a slow start and have only gotten better each and every week, building momentum into the key parts of the season... November and December... 

 

Brady does not come from the Manning pedigree.. he continues to have to work his %^@ off each and every week, proving doubters wrong and EARNING everything he gets.  He is one of the greatest QBs in the history of this game and all of the people that were calling him out and saying he wasn't that good, or that it "wasnt even close" in a comparison of him and Manning need to be eating their due servings of crow for being so incredibly wrong.

 

I couldn't be more happy or proud of this team right now... They continue to show their mental toughness and overcome adversity each and every week.  They were without 2 major stars on defense in Mayo and Jones, yet they still held the almighty Manning and his ridiculously talented cast of skill players to 21 points.

 

You know exactly what people have been saying about them and how little respect some people on this board have for Brady... so it just makes it that much sweeter when he completely dominates and outperforms Manning and the Broncos to take sole possession of 1st place in the AFC and now hold the head to head tie breaker over them which could be HUGE for that 1st seed.

 

People better start learning to respect the Patriots and especially Tom Brady... they're for real and they show it week in, week out.. every single year..  If you can't watch and appreciate just how good Brady is then you obviously don't understand football or are completely blinded by bitterness and hate.

 

Go Pats!

[amfootball]

I love how in the Cold Hard Facts article, he goes through every playoff loss under Manning in great detail, and in each one, assigns 100% of the blame to Peyton (and in a decent amount of games Manning was not directly at fault for those losses). How come no mention of playoff legend Tom Brady's playoff shortcomings that we have seen for the past decade, including 2 playoff losses to Manning and 2 Super Bowl losses in which his team was favored (one of them heavily) to win both of them?

 

And even in 2006, the guy argues that Manning "stumbled" into a SB win because of THREE TOUCHDOWNS AND SEVEN INTERCEPTIONS. Wasn't Manning's only poor game that postseason arguably the Chiefs Wild Card game? I know his stats didn't look pretty vs. the Ravens too but I would've loved to see anyone else go into Baltimore that year and try to light up what was arguably the best defense in the league. The AFCCG vs. the Patriots is self-explanatory and there was no need for Peyton to set the field on fire in the Super Bowl given that the running game was working great (and didn't Peyton have a decent-enough game against the Bears anyway, who, like the Ravens he had played earlier, and arguably the Patriots, had one of the best defenses in the NFL that year?).

 

What would've made this guy happy? Would Peyton have had to throw for 350 yards and 4 touchdowns in all 4 of those playoff games for that SB win to "count"?

Probably because Brady's playoff record needs no defending. Blame him entirely for all 8 losses if you want, no problem; he still has the most all time wins at 18 along with the 3 rings, 5 SB appearances and 8 conference championship game appearances.

 

I bet you don't know who has the second most one and done's behind Manning?  It is Montana with four but no one much cares because he has 4 rings and the second most playoff victories behind Brady at 16.

[amfootball]

Its such a gratifying win because of how quickly everyone pounced all over the Patriots at the beginning of the year because they didn't come right out of the gate blowing teams away.

 

People on this very board were saying how the Patriots are average, they're in decline, Brady is just average and not really that good and now its showing, etc etc etc...  Everyone couldn't get in line fast enough to take a shot at Brady and the Patriots.. yet here they are sitting at 7-2 atop the AFC standings.

 

The one bad game against Kansas City and everywhere you went, people were talking about the Patriots demise and how Brady just doesn't have it anymore and is in decline.. and then continued to take cheap shots, kicking him while they were down and saying he was never really that good to begin with, hes overrated, etc etc etc...   Then they just tore apart the "best" team in the NFL piece by piece... Brady completely outplayed the godly Manning and would have had 6 TDs and 0 Ints if not for dropped balls.

 

In addition to that, there was all this talk about how they will only make the playoffs because of their "weak" division, yet both Buffalo and Miami are sitting at 5-3...  Everyone had the Chargers as one of the top teams to beat in the league this year, and Miami just blew the doors off of them.  Everyone was all over the Pats for losing week 1 on the road against a very good Miami team, nobody would admit or give Buffalo & Miami any credit, living in the past while talking about how they aren't any good.

 

Its extremely gratifying to get this win...  It reminds me of the early 2000's, when everyone was licking their chops to take a shot at the Patriots, just waiting for them to slip up so they could all pounce... They're adopting that "us against the world" mentality again, just like in 2003 & 2004...

 

Everyone wanted to praise all of these teams that got off to hot starts but are now starting to run out of gas... the Patriots got off to a slow start and have only gotten better each and every week, building momentum into the key parts of the season... November and December... 

 

Brady does not come from the Manning pedigree.. he continues to have to work his %^@ off each and every week, proving doubters wrong and EARNING everything he gets.  He is one of the greatest QBs in the history of this game and all of the people that were calling him out and saying he wasn't that good, or that it "wasnt even close" in a comparison of him and Manning need to be eating their due servings of crow for being so incredibly wrong.

 

I couldn't be more happy or proud of this team right now... They continue to show their mental toughness and overcome adversity each and every week.  They were without 2 major stars on defense in Mayo and Jones, yet they still held the almighty Manning and his ridiculously talented cast of skill players to 21 points.

 

You know exactly what people have been saying about them and how little respect some people on this board have for Brady... so it just makes it that much sweeter when he completely dominates and outperforms Manning and the Broncos to take sole possession of 1st place in the AFC and now hold the head to head tie breaker over them which could be HUGE for that 1st seed.

 

People better start learning to respect the Patriots and especially Tom Brady... they're for real and they show it week in, week out.. every single year..  If you can't watch and appreciate just how good Brady is then you obviously don't understand football or are completely blinded by bitterness and hate.

 

Go Pats!

I don't care much about the other 15 games honestly. I care about this season. The fact is the Broncos came in as a favorite into Gillette which has only happened a handful of times since Brady took over and most of them were in 2001, his first season as a starter.

 

The Broncos are a better team in terms of on paper and statiscally on both sides of the ball. This was perhaps one of the most satisfying regular season wins in their historic match ups because of the way in which the Patriots beat the Broncos. Manning can say he stunk if he wants but in reality the Pats defense is what made him play the way he did. His only bad play was the pick to Nink otherwise he was lasering throws when his guys were open. The Pats did two things that were paramount. They pressured him without their best pass rusher on the field, they got him off the field on both third (3-11) and fourth downs (0-4) and they stopped the run early one which forced him to pass against a pass heavy look defense.

 

This game perhaps more than any other gives me hope that this team can contend deep into the playoffs. Still a ways to go but the most encouraging game of the season so far along with the blow out of the Bengals.

[southwest1]

Its such a gratifying win because of how quickly everyone pounced all over the Patriots at the beginning of the year because they didn't come right out of the gate blowing teams away.

 

People on this very board were saying how the Patriots are average, they're in decline, Brady is just average and not really that good and now its showing, etc etc etc...  Everyone couldn't get in line fast enough to take a shot at Brady and the Patriots.. yet here they are sitting at 7-2 atop the AFC standings.

 

The one bad game against Kansas City and everywhere you went, people were talking about the Patriots demise and how Brady just doesn't have it anymore and is in decline.. and then continued to take cheap shots, kicking him while they were down and saying he was never really that good to begin with, hes overrated, etc etc etc...   Then they just tore apart the "best" team in the NFL piece by piece... Brady completely outplayed the godly Manning and would have had 6 TDs and 0 Ints if not for dropped balls.

 

In addition to that, there was all this talk about how they will only make the playoffs because of their "weak" division, yet both Buffalo and Miami are sitting at 5-3...  Everyone had the Chargers as one of the top teams to beat in the league this year, and Miami just blew the doors off of them.  Everyone was all over the Pats for losing week 1 on the road against a very good Miami team, nobody would admit or give Buffalo & Miami any credit, living in the past while talking about how they aren't any good.

 

Its extremely gratifying to get this win...  It reminds me of the early 2000's, when everyone was licking their chops to take a shot at the Patriots, just waiting for them to slip up so they could all pounce... They're adopting that "us against the world" mentality again, just like in 2003 & 2004...

 

Everyone wanted to praise all of these teams that got off to hot starts but are now starting to run out of gas... the Patriots got off to a slow start and have only gotten better each and every week, building momentum into the key parts of the season... November and December... 

 

Brady does not come from the Manning pedigree.. he continues to have to work his %^@ off each and every week, proving doubters wrong and EARNING everything he gets.  He is one of the greatest QBs in the history of this game and all of the people that were calling him out and saying he wasn't that good, or that it "wasnt even close" in a comparison of him and Manning need to be eating their due servings of crow for being so incredibly wrong.

 

I couldn't be more happy or proud of this team right now... They continue to show their mental toughness and overcome adversity each and every week.  They were without 2 major stars on defense in Mayo and Jones, yet they still held the almighty Manning and his ridiculously talented cast of skill players to 21 points.

 

You know exactly what people have been saying about them and how little respect some people on this board have for Brady... so it just makes it that much sweeter when he completely dominates and outperforms Manning and the Broncos to take sole possession of 1st place in the AFC and now hold the head to head tie breaker over them which could be HUGE for that 1st seed.

 

People better start learning to respect the Patriots and especially Tom Brady... they're for real and they show it week in, week out.. every single year..  If you can't watch and appreciate just how good Brady is then you obviously don't understand football or are completely blinded by bitterness and hate.

 

Go Pats!

Nice post JM51. 100% accurate too. I just wanna be on record reminding everyone that I was defending Tom Brady after that KC Chiefs game & I knew that Tom & Bill were far from being washed up. I know you know JM51 along with GP, AMF, D13, VL, IWF, & all my other NE friends on here. 

 

Yes, Tom had zip on the ball vs the Broncos, he was making perfect decisions, & he was overflowing with confidence. The guy was just in the zone. I will also concede that Brady came to the NFL with no glowing NFL accolades like Manning the 1st family of football did. When you look at Tom's Combine footage & fast forward to playing in 5 SBs & winning 3 of them it's mind blowing. Brady can win anywhere under any conditions & when Brady lost to the NY Giants twice that said more about a superb HOF pass rush than Brady himself. 

 

Yes, I could easily see both the Broncos & Patriots at 12-4 & the AFC Championship Game now in Foxboro. The Patriots may not be my #1 team, but I do enjoy watching them & they are within my top 3 teams to respect & admire because they refuse to die & they amaze me every year despite injuries to Mayo & Chandler. I have a ton of respect for Brady & what he continues to accomplish year in; year out. The guy just redefines the word clutch. 

[southwest1]

I don't care much about the other 15 games honestly. I care about this season. The fact is the Broncos came in as a favorite into Gillette which has only happened a handful of times since Brady took over and most of them were in 2001, his first season as a starter.

 

The Broncos are a better team in terms of on paper and statiscally on both sides of the ball. This was perhaps one of the most satisfying regular season wins in their historic match ups because of the way in which the Patriots beat the Broncos. Manning can say he stunk if he wants but in reality the Pats defense is what made him play the way he did. His only bad play was the pick to Nink otherwise he was lasering throws when his guys were open. The Pats did two things that were paramount. They pressured him without their best pass rusher on the field, they got him off the field on both third (3-11) and fourth downs (0-4) and they stopped the run early one which forced him to pass against a pass heavy look defense.

 

This game perhaps more than any other gives me hope that this team can contend deep into the playoffs. Still a ways to go but the most encouraging game of the season so far along with the blow out of the Bengals.

Yes, the Broncos got taken out to the woodshed & whipped. Yes, they were surprized by NE's defense & secondary & so was I. I didn't expect them to gel this quickly either a credit to your HC & your DC actually. The Broncos will adapt & learn from this collapse just like NE regrouped after losing to KC, but at the end of the day the Patriots proved they can compete again for a SB this year despite key injuries at RB, LB, & pass rusher. 

 

Congratulations NE & to BB's credit he never lets the locker room bask in pride & glory too long. You will see Denver again in the Playoffs & hopefully that matchup will be more competitive. If NE does win the SB this year, I will give you credit for a remarkable season & I won't be all that surprised either. 

 

Don't sleep on my Colts BTW because our secondary, defense, special teams, & QB are just as lethal as Brady & your franchise is.   Gotta cut down on the Luck turnovers vs NE though. LOL!

[southwest1]

Hey, I just realized that both INDY & NE have byes this week. I only keep track of the Colts bye no one else's usually. The only reason I even know about that is because Willie McGinest mentioned it in the locker room video. Great both squads will be healed up, rested, & ready to collide. Nice. 

 

Colts vs NE the best NFL match up all year. I live for games like this...Intense dogfights with a time honored rival. Sweet! 

 

Regardless of the outcome, yes I wanna win, I am always impressed by how prepared your team is & I know that INDY has to play mistake free football to even have a shot at emerging victorious. 

 

Like always, if we lose I will take my lumps & give NE credit & if we win, I promise to be gracious & humble. You have my word.  TBH with you, Julian Edelman scares me the most on your team not Gronk. Jesus, that dude is crazy good. What can't he do? LOL! 

[OldManP]

Nice post JM51. 100% accurate too. I just wanna be on record reminding everyone that I was defending Tom Brady after that KC Chiefs game & I knew that Tom & Bill were far from being washed up. I know you know JM51 along with GP, AMF, D13, VL, IWF, & all my other NE friends on here. 

 

Yes, Tom had zip on the ball vs the Broncos, he was making perfect decisions, & he was overflowing with confidence. The guy was just in the zone. I will also concede that Brady came to the NFL with no glowing NFL accolades like Manning the 1st family of football did. When you look at Tom's Combine footage & fast forward to playing in 5 SBs & winning 3 of them it's mind blowing. Brady can win anywhere under any conditions & when Brady lost to the NY Giants twice that said more about a superb HOF pass rush than Brady himself. 

 

Yes, I could easily see both the Broncos & Patriots at 12-4 & the AFC Championship Game now in Foxboro. The Patriots may not be my #1 team, but I do enjoy watching them & they are within my top 3 teams to respect & admire because they refuse to die & they amaze me every year despite injuries to Mayo & Chandler. I have a ton of respect for Brady & what he continues to accomplish year in; year out. The guy just redefines the word clutch. 

Peyton Manning and Eli Manning have both eclipsed the performance of Archie Manning.