for those that hate on andy dalton

[CR91]

  

[Nobody]

Except Dalton has elite everything around him and a 1:6 TD:INT ratio in the playoffs. Peyton didn't play well in the playoffs at first either but not 1:6 bad.

[CR91]

Except Dalton has elite everything around him and a 1:6 TD:INT ratio in the playoffs. Peyton didn't play well in the playoffs at first either but not 1:6 bad.

elite wr sure, but what else on offense

[NewColtsFan]

Except Dalton has elite everything around him and a 1:6 TD:INT ratio in the playoffs. Peyton didn't play well in the playoffs at first either but not 1:6 bad.

 

I don't know what Peyton's playoff ratios were -- I've always tried stay out of Internet fights like this one -- but, it's my understanding that Peyton didn't win a playoff game until either season 6 or 7.....

 

Ratio or not,  that's a long, long time....   and yet,  he turned out pretty good...   

[BloodyChamp]

It's not a Peyton sucks post, it's an Andy doesn't suck as hard as people say post.

[Nobody]

elite wr sure, but what else on offense

Elite OL, stocked backfield, two first round TEs, plus good WRs beyond AJ

[Nobody]

I don't know what Peyton's playoff ratios were -- I've always tried stay out of Internet fights like this one -- but, it's my understanding that Peyton didn't win a playoff game until either season 6 or 7.....

Ratio or not, that's a long, long time.... and yet, he turned out pretty good...

Sure, but Dalton has been terrible. Much more QBs didn't win playoff games and turned out mediocre than turned out Peyton Manning

[Gavin]

Except Dalton has elite everything around him and a 1:6 TD:INT ratio in the playoffs. Peyton didn't play well in the playoffs at first either but not 1:6 bad.

Peyton had an elite Marvin Harrison and a very good Reggie Wayne and 2 much more gifted wr's now at his disposal in Denver, Shall we not give him credit where credit is do for making both franchises go....Like Dalton clearly does

[CR91]

Elite OL, stocked backfield, two first round TEs, plus good WRs beyond AJ

Stocked doesn't mean good neither does being a first round pick also Jones and sanu aren't anything special

[Jason_]

Bottom line imo is the jury is still out on Dalton. If Baltimore had given up on Flacco as quickly as some say cincy should move on from Dalton then they don't win that SB

[Synthetic]

Peyton had an elite Marvin Harrison and a very good Reggie Wayne and 2 much more gifted wr's now at his disposal in Denver, Shall we not give him credit where credit is do for making both franchises go....Like Dalton clearly does

 

Peyton has been surrounded by elite offenses his entire career and those guys get little to no credit for his lone Super Bowl accomplishment.

Not even the coaching staff gets much credit in Indy for when Peyton was there.

[Gavin]

Peyton has been surrounded by elite offenses his entire career and those guys get little to no credit for his lone Super Bowl accomplishment.

Not even the coaching staff gets much credit in Indy for when Peyton was there.

Welcome to the Peyton is God Forum, Demeaning others to prop Peyton up

[supremecoltsfan300]

Peyton had an elite Marvin Harrison and a very good Reggie Wayne and 2 much more gifted wr's now at his disposal in Denver, Shall we not give him credit where credit is do for making both franchises go....Like Dalton clearly does

We're talking about the beginning of Peyton's career and the beginning of dalton's. Peyton only had Marvin and James at that point and Dalton has a ton of offensive weapons, an outstanding o-line, and a great defense to take the pressure off him. The two qbs also played in what you would call different eras. It was harder to pass just 14 years ago than it is today. Dalton could become great but he's not there yet nor has he shown a real flash. In 1999, I think it was obvious Peyton was special.

[bballstud2]

No..... Just.. No. Dalton is mid-tier. Along with Flacco (idc if he won a SB that was ridiculous, just like Eli's 2). But at the same time, it's hard to move on to a new QB, because you could draft 5 QBs in the first round and none of them turn out to be starter quality. To get a star QB, you either have to suck in a year where there's a really special player in the draft, or you have to get lucky on a guy. It's very very hard to attain a star QB and we are very lucky to have one. Some teams spend a decade+ just looking for a guy who can be as good as Dalton, which again, is not that good. 

[akcolt]

Welcome to the Peyton is God Forum, Demeaning others to prop Peyton up

I would think a quick look at his playoff record would end that but I am sure it was someone else fault things just seem to go bad in the playoffs.

[Gavin]

We're talking about the beginning of Peyton's career and the beginning of dalton's. Peyton only had Marvin and James at that point and Dalton has a ton of offensive weapons, an outstanding o-line, and a great defense to take the pressure off him. The two qbs also played in what you would call different eras. It was harder to pass just 14 years ago than it is today. Dalton could become great but he's not there yet nor has he shown a real flash. In 1999, I think it was obvious Peyton was special.

you don't think 80 td's through 48 games is a flash? Also in the playoffs that defense was nowhere in sight, Your also forgetting..Or glossing over those 28 picks Peyton threw his first year and 58 through his first 3 years compared to 49 for Dalton, You think any QB that's average can put up those numbers with those players on offense?

[akcolt]

Elite OL, stocked backfield, two first round TEs, plus good WRs beyond AJ

Stocked backfield Bernard Scott and BenJarvis Green Ellis is a stocked backfield? 

 

Bernard was a rookie last year as was Eifert. AJ Green has never had a number 2 WR. Sanu and Marvin Jones both drafted in 2012 hopefully one will develop but Dalton has not had the weapons you make him out to have had. If he has please feel free to tell me who they are.

[akcolt]

We're talking about the beginning of Peyton's career and the beginning of dalton's. Peyton only had Marvin and James at that point and Dalton has a ton of offensive weapons, an outstanding o-line, and a great defense to take the pressure off him. The two qbs also played in what you would call different eras. It was harder to pass just 14 years ago than it is today. Dalton could become great but he's not there yet nor has he shown a real flash. In 1999, I think it was obvious Peyton was special.

who are the ton of offensive weapons? He has had AJ Green they were drafted together in 2011 last year in 2012 they brought in Jones and Sanu hopefully one of them steps up and becomes a number 2 and last year they brought in Bernard and Eifert.

 

They are building around Dalton but he has not had a ton of offensive weapons.

[NewColtsFan]

Sure, but Dalton has been terrible. Much more QBs didn't win playoff games and turned out mediocre than turned out Peyton Manning

 

Well, of course....    that's why Peyton Manning is Peyton Manning.

 

I'm only offering some context for people (not you) for whom last year = ancient history....

 

I think we can agree Andy Dalton is never going to be PM...

 

But I, for one,  am not ready to say Andy Dalton is not ever going to be very good because he hasn't won a playoff game yet.

 

Hope that clarifies my thoughts.....

[akcolt]

Mannings rookie year he started with Marshall Faulk in his 4th yr  Marvin Harrison in his 2nd year those are hall of fame players then throw in Dilger and Pollard at TE.

 

It is totally incorrect to say that Dalton has had more talent than Manning did his first 3 yrs the guy started with 2 HOF's in his pocket. Then added Terrance Wilkerson who is underrated as a WR and KR. Faulk then Edge and Harrison and Dalton is the one loaded with talent.

 

I knew that this board was pro Manning and hey I love the guy but to say Dalton started with more talent is absurd 

[akcolt]

Elite OL, stocked backfield, two first round TEs, plus good WRs beyond AJ

You do realize Peyton had Faulk and then Edge who are you talking about on the bengals do you watch football those are HOF players along with Harrison all there for Peyton.

 

Can you even name the rb's that Dalton played with his first 2 years? Not HOF's

[Qwiz]

It takes some guys longer than others to win in the playoffs. Heck, Matt Ryan just won his first playoff game a couple of seasons ago and he has been compared to Manning a lot in his career. I don't think the Bengals should give up on Dalton (and obviously they don't either with the huge contract extension) but he does need to step his game up, that is something no one can deny.

[crazycolt1]

Peyton has been surrounded by elite offenses his entire career and those guys get little to no credit for his lone Super Bowl accomplishment.

Not even the coaching staff gets much credit in Indy for when Peyton was there.

That comment is not true. Both the RBs got a lot of credit for their play in the super bowl. The defensive players also got their time in the limelight. Now you are saying that Tony Dungy didn't get much credit? 

[dw49]

It takes some guys longer than others to win in the playoffs. Heck, Matt Ryan just won his first playoff game a couple of seasons ago and he has been compared to Manning a lot in his career. I don't think the Bengals should give up on Dalton (and obviously they don't either with the huge contract extension) but he does need to step his game up, that is something no one can deny.

 

 

 

If you look at Dalton's contract , it's much like Kapernick's. Both guys have to produce to earn those big contracts. Dalton only received around 15 mill guaranteed, If he were cut after 2015 , the cap hit is very manageable. 7 mill in 2016 and only 4.8 in 2016. Much , much different than say what Flacco or Rodgers signed.  They are something like 36 and 30 mill cap hits after the 2015 season. So no huge commitment by Cinn on that contract.

[Qwiz]

If you look at Dalton's contract , it's much like Kapernick's. Both guys have to produce to earn those big contracts. Dalton only received around 15 mill guaranteed, If he were cut after 2015 , the cap hit is very manageable. 7 mill in 2016 and only 4.8 in 2016. Much , much different than say what Flacco or Rodgers signed.  They are something like 36 and 30 mill cap hits after the 2015 season. So no huge commitment by Cinn on that contract.

Yeah true I didn't look at it that way. The Bengals and 49ers must know what they're doing. They better be prepared if they do plan on ever cutting Dalton loose though, like trading for a proven veteran or quickly grooming A.J. McCarron, though I am not sure he would be able to solve any problems. Same goes for the 49ers, though I'm not sure who their back-up is. I think they are on the Kaepernick train for now but it still wouldn't take too much for them to begin considering moving on for sure.

[GoColts8818]

I've never understood the Dalton hate. I mean yeah I don't think he's the best QB in the NFL and not worth what the Bengals paid him but I do think he's better than most give him credit for. He's a top 15 QB IMO and maybe other then pre-injury Carson Palmer the best QB the Bengals have had since Boomer.

[HtownColt]

He's from Houston(well Katy) so he has my support

[Nobody]

Stocked backfield Bernard Scott and BenJarvis Green Ellis is a stocked backfield? 

 

Bernard was a rookie last year as was Eifert. AJ Green has never had a number 2 WR. Sanu and Marvin Jones both drafted in 2012 hopefully one will develop but Dalton has not had the weapons you make him out to have had. If he has please feel free to tell me who they are.

It's Giovanni Bernanrd dude. You're under rating every part of his supporting cast.

[Nobody]

You do realize Peyton had Faulk and then Edge who are you talking about on the bengals do you watch football those are HOF players along with Harrison all there for Peyton.

 

Can you even name the rb's that Dalton played with his first 2 years? Not HOF's

Those are young HOFs don't try to pretend he had HOFs around him. And it's not as if Peyton didn't have a huge hand in making them that status.

[dw49]

Yeah true I didn't look at it that way. The Bengals and 49ers must know what they're doing. They better be prepared if they do plan on ever cutting Dalton loose though, like trading for a proven veteran or quickly grooming A.J. McCarron, though I am not sure he would be able to solve any problems. Same goes for the 49ers, though I'm not sure who their back-up is. I think they are on the Kaepernick train for now but it still wouldn't take too much for them to begin considering moving on for sure.

 

 

 

It's pretty much just what you would call a team friendly deal. It just gives them the "option " to move on without crashing the team's salary cap. I understand Dalton signing that kind of a contract as the jury is maybe a little bit still out on him ? Kapernick however seemed to have way more leverage to me . I'm more than a little surprised that he signed such a performanced based deal. As far as Dalton goes , I think he's done OK and he could end up to be anything from a middle tier QB to a very good one. Probably not elite ... but he'll probably work out OK for Cinn.

[akcolt]

Those are young HOFs don't try to pretend he had HOFs around him. And it's not as if Peyton didn't have a huge hand in making them that status.

Faulk was in his 4th year of thousand yard seasons He had HOF around him his whole career FACT the only thing that is not accurate is Dalton having talent around him his first 3 years.

[akcolt]

It's Giovanni Bernanrd dude. You're under rating every part of his supporting cast.

He was a rookie last year you are over rating what he had compared to what Manning had Manning walked into a HOF running back who was already established as one of the best in the league and a 3rd yr Harrison

 

Hate Dalton but get your facts straight. You can't even spell the guys name Bernard dude  don't make things harder than they are. Maybe get your facts straight there's this thing called google for those who weren't around to watch Marshall Faulk

[Gavin]

Those are young HOFs don't try to pretend he had HOFs around him. And it's not as if Peyton didn't have a huge hand in making them that status.

That's the thing though, Peyton had a huge hand in helping them into hall of fame caliber wr's, you think with some below average or even average talent Harrison and Reggie would be considered for the hall of fame? That's not to say Dalton is great or elite of course and he certainly is not on Peytons level now but if you put some average QB (Example...Carson Palmer..Joe Flacco.....Alex Smith)Harrison (at any level of his career) or Wayne (At any level of his career) would be looked at as hall of fame candidates?...Take away Dalton and replace him with average then none of those receivers would have the success they are having now or have had, There are many examples of this, Larry Fitzgerald had the best stretch of his career from 2005-2009 cause he had a great QB throwing to him.

[southwest1]

It's not a Peyton sucks post, it's an Andy doesn't suck as hard as people say post.

We're debating the degree of incompetency now on Andy Dalton? That's like saying who scrapes the bottom of the barrel but looks the most poised & professional while doing it? 

 

The more relevant question is why can't Dalton win with the talent around him at RB & on defense? How do you beat the Ravens & Steelers, win your division, & crumble in the Playoffs so often? 

[southwest1]

It takes some guys longer than others to win in the playoffs. Heck, Matt Ryan just won his first playoff game a couple of seasons ago and he has been compared to Manning a lot in his career. I don't think the Bengals should give up on Dalton (and obviously they don't either with the huge contract extension) but he does need to step his game up, that is something no one can deny.

 

 

I don't know what Peyton's playoff ratios were -- I've always tried stay out of Internet fights like this one -- but, it's my understanding that Peyton didn't win a playoff game until either season 6 or 7.....

 

Ratio or not,  that's a long, long time....   and yet,  he turned out pretty good...   

Both QuizBoy & NCF make a valid point. Some QBs are just late post season bloomers in this league. Maybe I am expecting too much from Dalton too fast. I will admit that, but I just don't like how the wheels fall off when Andy enters the Playoffs. He's not even competitive. It's like watching the Titanic fill with water, crack in half, & capsize in under 45 minutes. 

 

But if I'm honest with myself, some of these Patriots post season games vs Peyton & the Colts were lopsided too in the early days as well. 

[BloodyChamp]

The two qbs also played in what you would call different eras. It was harder to pass just 14 years ago than it is today.

I'm not down on Dalton but I do agree with this. Every time I mention how the passhappy era isn't that old, people get all jumbled up about it.

[BloodyChamp]

We're debating the degree of incompetency now on Andy Dalton? That's like saying who scrapes the bottom of the barrel but looks the most poised & professional while doing it?

The more relevant question is why can't Dalton win with the talent around him at RB & on defense? How do you beat the Ravens & Steelers, win your division, & crumble in the Playoffs so often?

What?

[Dustin]

What a bunch of terrible cherry picked stats.

[amfootball]

Those stats are really interesting. I would not have thought they were that similar in their first three years. That being said, when I watch Dalton, I see a QB that looks lost when under pressure especially in the playoffs. His decision-making seems awful. I honestly don't remember seeing that with Peyton. He threw a ton of picks but so much of that was his just forcing things. His confidence was always there which I find similar to Luck who also has thrown a lot of picks. With Dalton, I sense that he shrinks in the big moment and is not going for it. He plays scared to me and I would never want that in my starter. JMO and I may end get proven wrong but boy has Dalton had some great teams especially defensively. His stat lines in the post-seasons are also much worse than Peyton's in terms of TDs to picks.

[CR91]

What a bunch of terrible cherry picked stats.

 

you have yards, tds, ints, wins, completion percentage. how is that cherry picked