the future of the NFL after Manning/Brady...

[sweetsurrender]

Seattle won the Super Bowl in spite of Russell Wilson. He fumbled & gave SF the ball inside the 15 on the very first play of the NFCCG. His defense outscored him & Denver in the Super Bowl. They would've won that game with a towel boy playing QB.

Kaepernick is a bigger version of Vick; one read & run. He just happens to have a defense & running game around him that Vick never had.

Good luck with all that. Not sure why it is so hard for fans of teams to give credit to their opponents. It just speaks of spite and envy.

 

Like I said I like Newton but last year may look like the fluke if the FO does not put some quality talent around him on O. Every QB needs a team and it was no coincidence that Carolina won as many games as it did last year on the strength of its defense. 

[rsrobinson]

You forgot to mention that Cam's completion percentage, interception rate, passer rating, 3rd down efficiency, etc have all improved every year. His raw stats have declined but he's improved as a passer every year. He's also been more productive & efficient than Luck.

Yet he still Russell Wilson in all those areas. So I guess I'm not seeing where he's about to fall by the wayside.

[NewColtsFan]

I think the NFL wants RG3 to be the face of the league. I don't recall someone ever getting as much attention and media coverage as RG3. 

 

The guy could go to a nightclub with his buddies and it would most likely be front page of ESPN or NFL.com ...

 

I know he plays in one of the largest markets in the country... but it sometimes is just annoying that the media acts like paparazzi around that guy... you almost feel sorry for him. 

 

Don't confuse the NFL with the Media.     Just because the media does this and that doesn't mean that's what the NFL wants.

 

The NFL loves Andrew Luck just as much as they do RG3.....

 

Believe it.    

[Synthetic]

Yet another thread over analyzing two quarterbacks that are past their prime and haven't won anything since Dubya was in office.

 

It's as if the QB was totally a non-factor until the two golden boys came into the picture.

 

Yeah I know, you think they are the greatest things ever, but all the drooling over them is annoying. The quarterback position didn't magically become a hot spot when they came into the picture.

 

Why do you have to compare every QB to Brady and Manning? Who cares really? Why can't they just be their own QB's and be themselves without "Oh man, this kid is like Brady! Duddddeeeee! That guy might win but he's not as good as Peyton or Brady! Dude! Stats man! Stats!". It's been like this for a while though. When Brees got his ring, we had to constantly be reminded how "he's still not Manning, dude" or now it's Russell Wilson "he's still not Brady, dog." Eli got ring #2 and it's driven people insane that a QB as "bad" as him has two rings let alone the fact he got both those rings over a golden boy.

 

It takes the fun out of watching a young kid when he's constantly compared to the self appointed top of the pyramid by fan experts.

Every QB in existence, young or old gets compared to these two and it's become down right annoying.

A quarterback is a quarterback.

Russell Wilson is Russell Wilson

Cam Newton is Cam Newton.

 

I have no idea what you are going to do with yourselves when these two finally retire.

[jvan1973]

Yet another thread over analyzing two quarterbacks that are past their prime and haven't won anything since Dubya was in office.

It's as if the QB was totally a non-factor until the two golden boys came into the picture.

Yeah I know, you think they are the greatest things ever, but all the drooling over them is annoying. The quarterback position didn't magically become a hot spot when they came into the picture.

Why do you have to compare every QB to Brady and Manning? Who cares really? Why can't they just be their own QB's and be themselves without "Oh man, this kid is like Brady! Duddddeeeee! That guy might win but he's not as good as Peyton or Brady! Dude! Stats man! Stats!".

It takes the fun out of watching a young kid when he's constantly compared to the self appointed top of the pyramid by fan experts.

Every QB in existence, young or old gets compared to these two and it's become down right annoying.

A quarterback is a quarterback.

Russell Wilson is Russell Wilson

Cam Newton is Cam Newton.

I have no idea what you are going to do with yourselves when these two finally retire.

well, you could always post and read elsewhere if it bothers you that much here

[-JJ-]

Yet another thread over analyzing two quarterbacks that are past their prime and haven't won anything since Dubya was in office.

 

It's as if the QB was totally a non-factor until the two golden boys came into the picture.

 

Yeah I know, you think they are the greatest things ever, but all the drooling over them is annoying. The quarterback position didn't magically become a hot spot when they came into the picture.

 

Why do you have to compare every QB to Brady and Manning? Who cares really? Why can't they just be their own QB's and be themselves without "Oh man, this kid is like Brady! Duddddeeeee! That guy might win but he's not as good as Peyton or Brady! Dude! Stats man! Stats!". It's been like this for a while though. When Brees got his ring, we had to constantly be reminded how "he's still not Manning, dude" or now it's Russell Wilson "he's still not Brady, dog." Eli got ring #2 and it's driven people insane that a QB as "bad" as him has two rings let alone the fact he got both those rings over a golden boy.

 

It takes the fun out of watching a young kid when he's constantly compared to the self appointed top of the pyramid by fan experts.

Every QB in existence, young or old gets compared to these two and it's become down right annoying.

A quarterback is a quarterback.

Russell Wilson is Russell Wilson

Cam Newton is Cam Newton.

 

I have no idea what you are going to do with yourselves when these two finally retire.

I would disagree and this from someone who's watched Staubach play. He was special to watch, as was Marino and a few others. Brady and Manning are special to watch. The Wilson's of the world just aren't as special. 

 

I'm also not player fan driven. Nor do I rate one over the other as much as people do. But there are special QBs to play and there is nobody yet on the horizon that can match Brady/Manning. Except "maybe" Luck. He has the tools and the stubbornness to get back up after 4 INTs thinking he can still win lol.

[rsrobinson]

Seattle won the Super Bowl in spite of Russell Wilson. He fumbled & gave SF the ball inside the 15 on the very first play of the NFCCG. His defense outscored him & Denver in the Super Bowl. They would've won that game with a towel boy playing QB.

That is just dumb on so many levels.

Wilson did fumble on the first play of the NFCCG but didn't turn the ball over again and finished with a QB rating of 104.6. In fact that was his only turnover of the playoffs. Compare that to Newton's 2 INTs and 79.9 QB rating against the 49ers. Those two picks in Newton's only playoff game is one more than Wilson has thrown in five playoff games.

And, no, the Seahawks defense didn't outscore their offense in the Super Bowl. Not even close. Wilson was razor sharp throughout the game, consistently moved the chains on third down, kept Manning off the field, and the Seahawks never punted the ball until the fourth quarter after the game had long been decided. Wilson finished 18-25 for 206 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 123.1 QB rating, and had another 26 yards rushing on just three carries. He put up those numbers despite the fact that the Seahawks offense took their foot off the gas with over 11 minutes remaining in the game and Wilson spent the last couple of series standing on the sidelines wearing a baseball cap.

[TDavis58]

Yet he still Russell Wilson in all those areas. So I guess I'm not seeing where he's about to fall by the wayside.

Newton- 62% Cmp, 3,964 Yd, 30 TD, 14 turnovers

Wilson- 63% Cmp, 3,896 Yd, 27 TD, 14 turnovers

Tell me more about Wilson having a better year.....

[thedude]

2 year totals-

Cam Newton- 9,400 Yd, 62 TD, 34 turnovers

Andrew Luck- 8,828 Yd, 55 TD, 34 turnovers

(Newton 3rd yr- 3,964 Yd, 30 TD, 14 turnovers)

Wilson, Kaepernick, Griffin, etc will fall to the wayside. And not a moment too soon. I predict multiple Super Bowl meetings between Luck & Newton.

Wilson is going to be one of the top QB's for the next decade.

[amfootball]

Yet another thread over analyzing two quarterbacks that are past their prime and haven't won anything since Dubya was in office.

 

It's as if the QB was totally a non-factor until the two golden boys came into the picture.

 

Yeah I know, you think they are the greatest things ever, but all the drooling over them is annoying. The quarterback position didn't magically become a hot spot when they came into the picture.

 

Why do you have to compare every QB to Brady and Manning? Who cares really? Why can't they just be their own QB's and be themselves without "Oh man, this kid is like Brady! Duddddeeeee! That guy might win but he's not as good as Peyton or Brady! Dude! Stats man! Stats!". It's been like this for a while though. When Brees got his ring, we had to constantly be reminded how "he's still not Manning, dude" or now it's Russell Wilson "he's still not Brady, dog." Eli got ring #2 and it's driven people insane that a QB as "bad" as him has two rings let alone the fact he got both those rings over a golden boy.

 

It takes the fun out of watching a young kid when he's constantly compared to the self appointed top of the pyramid by fan experts.

Every QB in existence, young or old gets compared to these two and it's become down right annoying.

A quarterback is a quarterback.

Russell Wilson is Russell Wilson

Cam Newton is Cam Newton.

 

I have no idea what you are going to do with yourselves when these two finally retire.

Perhaps you would get more love for Brees on a Saints board? I am sure he is just as "special" 24x7 on a NO board.

[sweetsurrender]

 

Why do you have to compare every QB to Brady and Manning? Who cares really? Why can't they just be their own QB's and be themselves without "Oh man, this kid is like Brady! Duddddeeeee! That guy might win but he's not as good as Peyton or Brady! Dude! Stats man! Stats!". 

 

The same reason why every young talent in basketball is compared to Jordan. When you are the best player of the modern game, it is only natural that the comparisons emerge. When Manning was coming up he was compared to Marino and Brady was compared to Montana. It is the natural ebb and flow. Not sure why it bothers you so much.

[JerodMayo51]

i think we as football fans should pay more attn to watching REAL games.  Some of the young members think Madden and Fantasy football has something to do with a Mathis spin to the QB....Please come to football reality.

 

Watch the OL block (or not block in our case last year )  Analyze defensive concepts and disguises...the list goes on including special teams!

 

I can only hope one thing reigns true...Luck in Multiple Super Bowls with more than 1 or two wins.      !!!

 

 

Excellent post, people fall back on stats way too much to determine if a team/player is "good" or "great."

 

The entire concept of the game of football, like any sport, is to WIN THE GAME.  However you do that, it doesn't matter, you just need to get a Win.  If a QB gets a Pass play called and checks into a run 100% of the time for an entire game and they win, then that QB did an amazing job.  That's a part of football and defines the QB position, which is to MANAGE THE GAME.  Sometimes that involves slinging the rock all over the field and sometimes it relies on getting your offense into the best possible play for success. 

 

What the defense is doing can dictate things, time of possession can affect stats tremendously, weather can affect stats, matchups can affect stats, gameplans can affect stats.

 

If the other team has a time of possession of 40 minutes, but the opposing QB went 11/18 att/comp, 175 yards, 1 TD and 0 turnovers, they played an amazing game.

 

I notice this mindset in younger fans or people that I would consider "casual" fans.  When I say casual fan, its not meant as an insult or derogatory in any way, it just means that they watch the football game on Sunday and really don't go a whole lot deeper than that.

 

People who have played football, study football and the offensive/defensive concepts and chess matches that go on and enjoy the sport, not just their favorite team, tend to see things for what they actually are in the context of the game being played.   Stats do not come close to telling the entire story, they're just a metric used to show certain types of finite production.

 

I'll use one of Brady's seasons as an example..  Yes, a Pats fan using Brady in a comparison argument, stop the presses!!!

 

Brady was voted unanimously as the 2010 MVP of the league, and his season that year was arguably much better than his 2007 season even though his 2007 season statistically was more "impressive" at first glance.

 

in 2007 he threw 50 TDs, 8 interceptions.  In 2010, he threw 36 TDs and only 4 interceptions.  However, his 2010 season he was masterful and fully in command of his offense, it was just built differently with talent.  He checked down into run plays at the goal line all the time if he thought it was best for the team, not his stats, and they scored 28 rushing touchdowns that year.

 

Him checking down into a run play to get a touchdown for the team hurt his personal stats, but it was still a demonstration of him playing the QB position at a high level.  That TD total also doesn't include his rushing TDs either, but that season he used a two TE set offense and still managed to carve defenses up.

[rsrobinson]

Excellent post, people fall back on stats way too much to determine if a team/player is "good" or "great."

 

The entire concept of the game of football, like any sport, is to WIN THE GAME.  However you do that, it doesn't matter, you just need to get a Win.  If a QB gets a Pass play called and checks into a run 100% of the time for an entire game and they win, then that QB did an amazing job.  That's a part of football and defines the QB position, which is to MANAGE THE GAME.  Sometimes that involves slinging the rock all over the field and sometimes it relies on getting your offense into the best possible play for success. 

 

What the defense is doing can dictate things, time of possession can affect stats tremendously, weather can affect stats, matchups can affect stats, gameplans can affect stats.

 

If the other team has a time of possession of 40 minutes, but the opposing QB went 11/18 att/comp, 175 yards, 1 TD and 0 turnovers, they played an amazing game.

 

I notice this mindset in younger fans or people that I would consider "casual" fans.  When I say casual fan, its not meant as an insult or derogatory in any way, it just means that they watch the football game on Sunday and really don't go a whole lot deeper than that.

 

People who have played football, study football and the offensive/defensive concepts and chess matches that go on and enjoy the sport, not just their favorite team, tend to see things for what they actually are in the context of the game being played.   Stats do not come close to telling the entire story, they're just a metric used to show certain types of finite production.

 

I'll use one of Brady's seasons as an example..  Yes, a Pats fan using Brady in a comparison argument, stop the presses!!!

 

Brady was voted unanimously as the 2010 MVP of the league, and his season that year was arguably much better than his 2007 season even though his 2007 season statistically was more "impressive" at first glance.

 

in 2007 he threw 50 TDs, 8 interceptions.  In 2010, he threw 36 TDs and only 4 interceptions.  However, his 2010 season he was masterful and fully in command of his offense, it was just built differently with talent.  He checked down into run plays at the goal line all the time if he thought it was best for the team, not his stats, and they scored 28 rushing touchdowns that year.

 

Him checking down into a run play to get a touchdown for the team hurt his personal stats, but it was still a demonstration of him playing the QB position at a high level.  That TD total also doesn't include his rushing TDs either, but that season he used a two TE set offense and still managed to carve defenses up.

Excellent post. Too many people take a superficial glance at how many yards and touchdowns a quarterback passed for, calculate his fantasy football score, and then use that as the measure of whether a QB had a good game or a bad game.

[dgambill]

Life in football AFTER Manning/Brady?

 

This cannot begin soon enough!!!

Blasphemy! The quality of play..the beautiful way they orchestrate their offenses...the way they lead their teams...I'm sorry but there will always be other qbs...but there are few that are as entertaining as those two. I will miss them greatly..and only hope these others grow into something similar...there just aren't many Brady's and Manning's out there. It's more than W/Ls and Rings...its how they play the game. Like those that watched Unitas...I will tell my grand kids someday.

[dgambill]

Yet another thread over analyzing two quarterbacks that are past their prime and haven't won anything since Dubya was in office.

 

It's as if the QB was totally a non-factor until the two golden boys came into the picture.

 

Yeah I know, you think they are the greatest things ever, but all the drooling over them is annoying. The quarterback position didn't magically become a hot spot when they came into the picture.

 

Why do you have to compare every QB to Brady and Manning? Who cares really? Why can't they just be their own QB's and be themselves without "Oh man, this kid is like Brady! Duddddeeeee! That guy might win but he's not as good as Peyton or Brady! Dude! Stats man! Stats!". It's been like this for a while though. When Brees got his ring, we had to constantly be reminded how "he's still not Manning, dude" or now it's Russell Wilson "he's still not Brady, dog." Eli got ring #2 and it's driven people insane that a QB as "bad" as him has two rings let alone the fact he got both those rings over a golden boy.

 

It takes the fun out of watching a young kid when he's constantly compared to the self appointed top of the pyramid by fan experts.

Every QB in existence, young or old gets compared to these two and it's become down right annoying.

A quarterback is a quarterback.

Russell Wilson is Russell Wilson

Cam Newton is Cam Newton.

 

I have no idea what you are going to do with yourselves when these two finally retire.

No offense but do you go to EVERY opposing teams boards just to cast down their players or legends. I mean if you hate the narrative then why follow it. It is like you PURPOSELY look for chances to be upset. You may have a different opinion but it isn't even close to a debate that Brady and Manning have been the leagues figure heads for the past decade and have been the standard of qb play for that time. Sorry if you don't like it but their w/l records back it up...and their stats back it up...and the eye test backs it up. There have been others that have excelled during this time...but none has been consistant and excellent as these two. The league builds up stars all the time...but the two constant perfessionals...always remain...when in the end come playoff time we have Brady in the Super Bowl 5 times and Manning 3 times and in the playoffs EVERY YEAR...what could you possibly be trying to argue? I would add Brees is in that discussion too...he just came on later in his career after the Manning vs Brady saga had been well established...I think we will see Aaron Rogers continue to be touted along with the league push these young guns from the 2012 draft. Whatever the case...I think you are just on the wrong message board if you don't want to hear about them. It would be like me going to a Kentucky Wildcat board and complaining about Calipari praise or a Duke board and complaining about Coach K being the greatest coach of all time.

[BrentMc11]

Excellent post, people fall back on stats way too much to determine if a team/player is "good" or "great."

 

The entire concept of the game of football, like any sport, is to WIN THE GAME.  However you do that, it doesn't matter, you just need to get a Win.  If a QB gets a Pass play called and checks into a run 100% of the time for an entire game and they win, then that QB did an amazing job.  That's a part of football and defines the QB position, which is to MANAGE THE GAME.  Sometimes that involves slinging the rock all over the field and sometimes it relies on getting your offense into the best possible play for success. 

 

What the defense is doing can dictate things, time of possession can affect stats tremendously, weather can affect stats, matchups can affect stats, gameplans can affect stats.

 

If the other team has a time of possession of 40 minutes, but the opposing QB went 11/18 att/comp, 175 yards, 1 TD and 0 turnovers, they played an amazing game.

 

I notice this mindset in younger fans or people that I would consider "casual" fans.  When I say casual fan, its not meant as an insult or derogatory in any way, it just means that they watch the football game on Sunday and really don't go a whole lot deeper than that.

 

People who have played football, study football and the offensive/defensive concepts and chess matches that go on and enjoy the sport, not just their favorite team, tend to see things for what they actually are in the context of the game being played.   Stats do not come close to telling the entire story, they're just a metric used to show certain types of finite production.

 

I'll use one of Brady's seasons as an example..  Yes, a Pats fan using Brady in a comparison argument, stop the presses!!!

 

Brady was voted unanimously as the 2010 MVP of the league, and his season that year was arguably much better than his 2007 season even though his 2007 season statistically was more "impressive" at first glance.

 

in 2007 he threw 50 TDs, 8 interceptions.  In 2010, he threw 36 TDs and only 4 interceptions.  However, his 2010 season he was masterful and fully in command of his offense, it was just built differently with talent.  He checked down into run plays at the goal line all the time if he thought it was best for the team, not his stats, and they scored 28 rushing touchdowns that year.

 

Him checking down into a run play to get a touchdown for the team hurt his personal stats, but it was still a demonstration of him playing the QB position at a high level.  That TD total also doesn't include his rushing TDs either, but that season he used a two TE set offense and still managed to carve defenses up.

Thank you....I cannot get enough of analyzing football....just an awesome feeling

[GoPats]

Put Cam Newton in SF & they would've won the Super Bowl in 2012. Put Cam Newton in Seattle & they would've won this year. If you put Kaepernick or Wilson in Carolina could they carry the entire offense? I don't think so.

 

 

I like Newton and realize his ceiling is incredibly high. But I really hate this particular argument when applied to any player or any scenario. Fact is, no one knows what the result would have been with that hypothetical. Whenever someone says, "If you put 'player A' on 'team B', this would have happened" I kind of cringe. 

 

As stated I like Newton, but he hasn't shown that he's head-and-shoulders above the rest of the young QB crop or that he would have performed better in certain situations. He's been inconsistent. At times he's had attitude/maturity issues (I seem to remember a couple of years ago Steve Smith telling him to "stop sulking" on the sidelines). He's got a ton of potential and has had a lot of pressure on him in his young career. Before we anoint him as the best of the young guns let's let it play out some, no? See where things go the next two or three seasons?

[Shane Bond]

Maybe but right now Wilson has a ring and Kaep has a SB appearance and another NFCCG appearance. And they are in the same division on the two best teams in football. Everything is line up for them to dominate in the near future and possibly the distant future as well.

Let's see in 10 years.

[weslo1812]

2 year totals-

Cam Newton- 9,400 Yd, 62 TD, 34 turnovers

Andrew Luck- 8,828 Yd, 55 TD, 34 turnovers

(Newton 3rd yr- 3,964 Yd, 30 TD, 14 turnovers)

Wilson, Kaepernick, Griffin, etc will fall to the wayside. And not a moment too soon. I predict multiple Super Bowl meetings between Luck & Newton.

I don't know how you think Wilson and Kaepernick will fall. But I honestly wouldn't doubt Wilson wins 2 or 3 SB's before Luck gets his 1st. That team is extremely talented, still young and coached very well.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I don't know how you think Wilson and Kaepernick will fall. But I honestly wouldn't doubt Wilson wins 2 or 3 SB's before Luck gets his 1st. That team is extremely talented, still young and coached very well.

 

 

Seattle did great last year & now everyone including the media is jumping on the bandwagon lets just see what happens in 2014 before we annoint Wilson. & the Seahawks . IMO Luck & the Colts are extremly talented . young & coached very well too so until Seattle beats the Colts I give the leg up to the Indianapolis Colts who beat K.C Denver San Fran & Seattle .

[amfootball]

Seattle did great last year & now everyone including the media is jumping on the bandwagon lets just see what happens in 2014 before we annoint Wilson. & the Seahawks . IMO Luck & the Colts are extremly talented . young & coached very well too so until Seattle beats the Colts I give the leg up to the Indianapolis Colts who beat K.C Denver San Fran & Seattle .

I agree about the Seattle hype being over the top but that pretty much happens every year with the SB winner. I think with Seattle because they are so young and returning most of their key guys, many see them winning more. Of course, the same was predicted about Green Bay after the 2010 season and they have yet to even make it back to the bowl.

 

In terms of the Colts or any of the other young teams, niners, panthers, redskins, all of them are somewhat chasing Seattle and their success. Seattle has only lost one playoff game the last two seasons and also has the most wins as well. They are the king of the mountain right now but I don't expect it to last as the NFL is just too tough to stay consistently great.

[Qwiz]

I agree about the Seattle hype being over the top but that pretty much happens every year with the SB winner. I think with Seattle because they are so young and returning most of their key guys, many see them winning more. Of course, the same was predicted about Green Bay after the 2010 season and they have yet to even make it back to the bowl.

 

In terms of the Colts or any of the other young teams, niners, panthers, redskins, all of them are somewhat chasing Seattle and their success. Seattle has only lost one playoff game the last two seasons and also has the most wins as well. They are the king of the mountain right now but I don't expect it to last as the NFL is just too tough to stay consistently great.

It's also how they did it...Pete Carroll took a terrible team and used the Draft to perfection and got the most out of guys and still will be. So even when free agency/salary cap takes hits, many can be confident that he can simply keep things going scouting wise and continue to get excellence from his players. But we all know how competitive the NFC is lol.